Rules of Opposite Sex Friendship

[Tailor2000]

Thanks preraph. I guess my only question then is how to avoid being stuck without an answers. As you say, out is what it is, maybe I should let go. But someone else might say chase it up, maybe they've forgotten. And I believe (d) part of the rules of friendship is getting to understand the person and at some point finding out why someone didn't get back to you. Was it because they've lost interest, because they're not confidant or any number things that you can take into account in the friendship going forward.

 

I sound really Aspie don't I? Too much thinking!

 

But I think it's the old saying, you can't change other people, but you can change yourself. So if I get to understand more about you, I can change myself.

[preraph]

I mean, you don't have to completely let it go. But what's unfair is that you let it really torture you, not having the answers, when the answer may just not be at all related to you but only have to do with her and her life. That's why it's just better to not assign blame to yourself and kind of have the attitude that's it's her issue in that way, let it go. I do understand your frustration. Realize you're talking to someone who's running buddy she's known for 35 years has pretty much abandoned me because she got a boyfriend but won't admit that's why because she doesn't want to think of herself as someone who'd do that.

[Tailor2000]

Hehe. Part of me blames me in case I've done something. Part of me sort of blames her in case she's doing something weird. And there are two other bits that actually care about me, and care about her and wanting to just wrap her in loving friendly arms that says it's OK. Whatever it is, it's OK and make her feel safe and secure and able to share. That's absolutely not sexually related in any way shape or form.

 

There's another bit that says actually, I need to stand up for myself more. I need to stop letting things go. I need to stop being so "amiable". Why am I so scared of upsetting others for? I mean I don't go out to upset people, but if someone does something to hurt me, why can't I say something?

 

This is where my Ex would have turned around and called me "insecure". No. Goddamnit. It's not insecure to call you out on your flaky and rude behaviour. It's not insecure to say, I don't mind you being late, but could you at least let me know when you do actually plan on being here instead of giving me one time and then turning up two hours late? But Im absolutely positively petrified <--- maybe that's it. Im petrified of having my feelings invalidated, as non-consequential.

[preraph]

I can understand the frustration, but I think how you react or confront has to depend on the level of friendship. In this case, I think she considers herself more a friendly acquaintance, and not sure it's appropriate to do anything confrontational like demand an answer or explanation but is instead more appropriate to quit asking and just see if she contacts. But if when you run into her, she says anything that opens the door, you can at least ask for a specific time.

[Miss Peach]

Most of my friends are male. I work in a male dominated industry. I don't think there's an issue with OSF per se.

 

The issue is that most of the men I've met do have ulterior motives but some do not. It's just I have been very careful which men I accept as friends and which ones say they are 'friends' but they are really orbiters. Most if you give them a chance they cross friendship boundaries pretty fast.

 

That's why there is so much hesitation on the part of women and their partners IMO.

[Dreamworld]

I didnt read the entire thread so apologies if I repeat others' posts.

 

Like I always answer to questions about this, I do believe that opposite sex friendships are possible but within much stricter boundaries than same sex. In other words, the whole bff thing between opposite sex friends have never worked for me. Something always happened.

 

I have male friends from my school years. But the only way we can stay friends is if we have a bit of distance. Meeting in groups, the occasional holiday or birthday or have a nice spring type texts/calls. And if they have gf or spouses, always be friends with them too, or be closer to them.

 

The male friends, married or single ( to be honest, it was actually the MARRIED ones who kept wanting to push the boudaries) where problems arose were when we did the bff thingie. Spending one on one time, texting a lot etc. even worse if i didnt know the spouse or gf. Failed every single time. Needless to say once this crap started to happen I lost all these guys as friends.

 

So I really dont think "we can all be friends, i can treat my guy friends exactly the same way i do my gal friends" works. There have to be boundaries.

 

Oh and totally not trying not to diss your married lady friends, but married women can have ulterior motives as well, so you really have to stay alert. I personally think texting everyday or inviting a male guy over to my house without the presence of my husband would be kind of inapproriate but that's just me.

[Dreamworld]

I understand the complexity of this but it really can't be broken down into black and white terms...you really just have to gauge the situation and be intuitive. But I repeat and really do believe that to be able to maintain healthy opposite sex friendships with a wide variety of people( and again, i am not saying you cannot be friends) in general it is safest to maintain a safe distance= boundaries that are mtually put into place through common sense and intuition.

 

and yes people are different, so you really just have to sense your interactions with these women you encounter. being a woman myself and being brutally honest, I believe that we women are very intuitive in general and sometimes we can be very manipulative. as in there are women who push the boundaries under the guise of "friendship" knowing intuitively and fully well how interested a man is. it is an ego boost. And there are just married women looking for an affair so you have to sense that too

 

"So here's the question again, a straight man should never be friends with a married straight female."

 

of course you can be friends. but with boundaries! ( that can't be broken down into black and white terms)

 

"Now what if that man is gay? What if he is bisexual? What if he is asexual? How do your rules work out in those scenarios?

"

 

Wouldnt the same boundaries apply with the people that could possibly spark an attraction? with gay men, being besties with a married woman is the equivalent of a female friend. I have gay friends so that is my experience. so the complexity wouldnt apply there. they on the other hand have to apply the boundaries with other men. I also have bisexual friends. same boundaries with both sexes. one of my bisexual friends told me she developed feelings for both a female and male friend after spending too much time with them so she told me it is tougher on her cuz there are double the possibilties of attraction. i dont know about asexual but i would assume that lot would have it easiest since they wouldnt feel the urge to push sexual boundaries with anyone so friendships would be easiest to maintain? unless emotional factors got involved, then again, healthy distance!

 

honestly it is not something you can put into equation form so i dont think i can explain anymore.

 

but to end here's some tidbits from what i have learned from my male friends (with whom i maintain healthy boundaries) these are my friends so it doesnt mean everybody is like this, but the consensus i got from them is (and i will quote some):

 

even within opposite sex friendships deemed as healthily platonic by each party, my male friends said they don't bother going out of their way to get personally chummy with a female unless there is a tiny smidge of attraction. quoting one friend: "if i am not even a tiny bit attracted to her, i dont make time and effort for a friendship. i would rather just stay at home and chill out."

 

hence, the group thing is the safest way to go where everyone can truly be friends without the drama. it just creates a natural distance.

 

you just gotta....sense it all in your interactions. then the boundaries fall into place and you act accordingly.

 

btw, i knew when my ex husband's female friends were the healthy kind or not. i felt it in my gut. the truly nice ones really tried to befriend me. and i was right about my gut every time. unfortunately he couldnt keep it in his pants for even a second but that is irrelevant here..hehe. In the same vein, i have seen that husbands also know when their wives' male friends are really friends or orbiters. it is all in how you sense and maintain your interactions and with that in check healthy opposite sex friendships can be possible. ok have said everything about 5 times now so i am going to end here.

[Try]

I like those rules. Those rules make sense.

I prefer the central's approach. It may be naive, but it doesn't judge everyone by the same cover.

The only opposite sex friend boundaries (which you call rules) that you seem to understand and fully agree with are the boundaries as set by central, who is in an open relationship looking to possibly be in a poly relationship. What does that tell you about your boundaries? How do you think men in a monogamous relationship view such boundaries? Since a certain percentage of married women are open to cheating on their spouse, and may interpret your boundaries as you being interested in more than a platonic relationship with them, why are you surprised that some women are initiating situations that people in a monogamous relationship that do not cheat would find boundary crossing? Edited March 23, 2016 by Try

[Tailor2000]

I understand the complexity of this but it really can't be broken down into black and white terms...you really just have to gauge the situation and be intuitive. But I repeat and really do believe that to be able to maintain healthy opposite sex friendships with a wide variety of people( and again, i am not saying you cannot be friends) in general it is safest to maintain a safe distance= boundaries that are mtually put into place through common sense and intuition.

 

Thanks Dreamworld.

 

Intuition may be difficult for me, but Im guessing it should be easy working out boundaries with a bit of communication - especially if you truly value each other as friends. I guess that's one of my big problems, when something happens and no one communications, I spend my time working out what happened. Apparently no one did anything wrong, but that's not the way it appears. Of course, my senses may not be based on rational fact!

 

and yes people are different, so you really just have to sense your interactions with these women you encounter. being a woman myself and being brutally honest, I believe that we women are very intuitive in general and sometimes we can be very manipulative. as in there are women who push the boundaries under the guise of "friendship" knowing intuitively and fully well how interested a man is. it is an ego boost. And there are just married women looking for an affair so you have to sense that too

 

I haven't discounted the possibility that they may have been wanting an ego boost themselves.

 

i dont know about asexual but i would assume that lot would have it easiest since they wouldnt feel the urge to push sexual boundaries with anyone so friendships would be easiest to maintain? unless emotional factors got involved, then again, healthy distance!

 

I consider I have a pretty low sex drive, though you wouldn't know unless you get to know me. Maybe that's another problem - more rejection hurts, but I guess all people is a straight man. And I want people to get to know me.

 

but to end here's some tidbits from what i have learned from my male friends (with whom i maintain healthy boundaries) these are my friends so it doesnt mean everybody is like this, but the consensus i got from them is (and i will quote some):

 

"if i am not even a tiny bit attracted to her, i dont make time and effort for a friendship. i would rather just stay at home and chill out."

 

Huh. Strange. I value these women as individual people who bring value and worth to my life. Some of them have talked to me when Im down, given me support, made time for me, talked to me, danced with me, helped me, welcomed me, motivated me. They've done a lot more than many friends actually and it's such a nice feeling to feel cared for, and to feel loved and respected as a person.

 

That's the kind of energy I want to give back. Universally.

 

 

hence, the group thing is the safest way to go where everyone can truly be friends without the drama. it just creates a natural distance.

 

you just gotta....sense it all in your interactions. then the boundaries fall into place and you act accordingly.

 

btw, i knew when my ex husband's female friends were the healthy kind or not. i felt it in my gut. the truly nice ones really tried to befriend me. and i was right about my gut every time. unfortunately he couldnt keep it in his pants for even a second but that is irrelevant here..hehe. In the same vein, i have seen that husbands also know when their wives' male friends are really friends or orbiters. it is all in how you sense and maintain your interactions and with that in check healthy opposite sex friendships can be possible. ok have said everything about 5 times now so i am going to end here.

 

In my favour, every time I've tried to initiate anything, it's been in public and I've always tried to include their other half. Some of the women seem more comfortable meeting one on one and don't seem to have a problem with it.

[Tailor2000]

The only opposite sex friend boundaries (which you call rules) that you seem to understand and fully agree with are the boundaries as set by central, who is in an open relationship looking to possibly be in a poly relationship. What does that tell you about your boundaries? How do you think men in a monogamous relationship view such boundaries? Since a certain percentage of married women are open to cheating on their spouse, and may interpret your boundaries as you being interested in more than a platonic relationship with them, why are you surprised that some women are initiating situations that people in a monogamous relationship that do not cheat would find boundary crossing?

 

I think my boundaries are fine because Im not looking for a poly amourous relationship. Or even a monogamous relationship with a married woman. I've said that while naive - granted, I prefer simpler rules which doesn't second guess and doesn't rely on intuition and if someone isn't comfortable with a level of friendship, to let me know.

 

But all these questions about my boundaries, when time and time again, I do actually point out, that many of these women seem far more comfortable with meeting in private than I do and giving me hugs.

 

I don't know how that fits into your logic of me having questionnable boundaries, when clearly, my boundaries prefer no touching and public meetings, preferably with their partner.

 

As said, I would prefer simpler boundaries.

[central]

The only opposite sex friend boundaries (which you call rules) that you seem to understand and fully agree with are the boundaries as set by central, who is in an open relationship looking to possibly be in a poly relationship. What does that tell you about your boundaries? How do you think men in a monogamous relationship view such boundaries? Since a certain percentage of married women are open to cheating on their spouse, and may interpret your boundaries as you being interested in more than a platonic relationship with them, why are you surprised that some women are initiating situations that people in a monogamous relationship that do not cheat would find boundary crossing?

 

Allow me to clarify a little.

 

 

I have many platonic OSF friends. I don't accept advances from married women (unless I KNOW they are in an open relationship, usually by meeting the husband). So, I could add a rule that I never participate in helping someone cheat on their spouse/SO, and I make that clear or end the friendship if the boundary isn't respected. I make sure single women know my status, and that I can and will keep things platonic if they wish - and I have a number of such friends as well.

 

 

So, I count on their integrity, or I pull back. They count on my integrity to observe their boundaries, too. Some people can't behave ethically and succumb to temptation, but I don't find it difficult at all to behave ethically. My wife does the same. We've rarely had anyone try to break these rules more than once - they either get it, or are gone.