Successful searching vs unsuccessful searching

[ZA Dater]

As your friends are indeed forty plus, then I guess that is where you fit in best.

I guess you are what many would call an "old soul", hence the obvious lack of connection with those of your own age and younger - it also explains your fruitless search among women in their early twenties.

Who wants to date someone who acts like their "dad", at that age?

 

I came to this extremely sad realisation a few months ago. Not the nicest of things to live with.

 

At least I can still look around some sometimes enjoy what I see, even if I know I cant have it.

[ZA Dater]

1. Positive attitude.
   
2. Positive, constructive and helpful belief system.
   
3. Take action.
   
4. Effective strategy.
   
5. Learn and be persistent.
   

Success starts with a positive attitude and supportive beliefs.

"They can because they think they can."

~ Virgil

Next, you have to take action. The key is how we take action. Simply put, we need the right strategy - doing the things that lead to success, not doing the things that impede success. Then, do those things until we succeed. Understanding that we're going to fail - a lot. That's part of the process.

 

Learning. Growth. Make sure you learn from your experiences. Take notes. Observe. Reflect. Read. Study. Then strive to continuously improve.

 

They say practice makes perfect. That's not true. PERFECT practice makes perfect.

 

Doing the right things the right way consistently while striving to continuously improve. That's what it takes to succeed in any area of our lives. Including dating.

 

How we look and our circumstances play only a small role in dating success. How we think and what we do is paramount.

 

Good points made, all of which can be applied to working life, I just battle to apply any of them in a dating sphere. Which things lead to success, I always thought being nice would lead to success, likewise being generous, likewise being honest, likewise being slim etc.

 

I don't believe continual failure is healthy at all nor is it needed or part of a learning process. Furthermore if ladies never give any sort of feedback as to what I am doing wrong them its impossible to progress.

[Satu]

You should switch from a *get* mentality to a *give* mentality.

[SammySammy]

Good points made, all of which can be applied to working life, I just battle to apply any of them in a dating sphere. Which things lead to success, I always thought being nice would lead to success, likewise being generous, likewise being honest, likewise being slim etc.

 

I don't believe continual failure is healthy at all nor is it needed or part of a learning process. Furthermore if ladies never give any sort of feedback as to what I am doing wrong them its impossible to progress.

 

That's my point. If nice doesn't lead to success, find out what does. Do that.

 

We have to live in truth. Not what we imagine to be true.

 

Too many people want to do things their way and wonder why they don't succeed. You have to do what works.

 

If we don't want to learn what works and do that, then complaining about failure is pointless. You're supposed to fail if you don't do what works.

[ZA Dater]

That's my point. If nice doesn't lead to success, find out what does. Do that.

 

We have to live in truth. Not what we imagine to be true.

 

Too many people want to do things their way and wonder why they don't succeed. You have to do what works.

 

If we don't want to learn what works and do that, then complaining about failure is pointless. You're supposed to fail if you don't do what works.

 

Reading posts like this makes walking away s very easy. If I simply have to become a clone of someone else to be successful then I'd rather live the rest of my life on my own with nobody at all.

 

I am not going to go drinking and do things I don't enjoy because they supposedly work!

 

What doe work, I have been asking this question for years, nobody can tell me what does work.

 

A large part of me is seriously starting to believe attraction and success is bought on some material and intangible level.

[ZA Dater]

You should switch from a *get* mentality to a *give* mentality.

 

Trust me all I do is give, be it my time, my ear, my opinion, my support, my loyalty, my dedication.

 

All I do is give. I don't give with the intention of taking, my philosophy is to give me than I take.

[Satu]

Trust me all I do is give, be it my time, my ear, my opinion, my support, my loyalty, my dedication.

 

All I do is give. I don't give with the intention of taking, my philosophy is to give me than I take.

 

It's puzzling that you haven't found someone.

 

Just keep on being yourself and proceed with an open mind.

[SammySammy]

Reading posts like this makes walking away s very easy. If I simply have to become a clone of someone else to be successful then I'd rather live the rest of my life on my own with nobody at all.

 

I am not going to go drinking and do things I don't enjoy because they supposedly work!

 

What doe work, I have been asking this question for years, nobody can tell me what does work.

 

A large part of me is seriously starting to believe attraction and success is bought on some material and intangible level.

 

Okay. Then you deserve to fail. Walk away and stop whining.

 

A negative attitude, choosing to believe what is false, the unwillingness to seek and apply knowledge has worked perfectly for you. Just the way it should have.

[PrettyEmily77]

You can always carry on as you are and wait for the girl who fits your exact criteria to fall on your lap - and keep your fingers crossed that you also fit all her criteria.

 

 

I see it happen all the time...

[SammySammy]

A recommendation:

 

The Way of the Superior Man by David Deida

 

There are many other resources available. That book is a good place to start.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Those that have been "left on the shelf" usually belong to one of these categories:

 

1. Completely socially inept (you will know you are in there if you have hard time forming friendships, do badly at job interviews and generally have people of both sexes avoiding you).

 

2. Too picky. Too picky means that you are too picky for what you are offering to potential partners. It's all a matter of demand and supply. If you want to sell a house, you can ask for a high price and if it's higher than what it's worth on the market, you will have trouble selling it and at the very least it will take a long time. Many in this category get desperate as the time goes on and lower their "asking price". Few get lucky and get what they want.

 

For me personally, it's a combination of the fact that my strongest personality traits are not attractive to men (intelligence, ambition and kindness). From observation over the years, men like looks - and I mean stunning looks. Pretty doesn't even register since most men over-estimate their appearance (number of studies have shown that) and take pretty for granted. They also like outgoing, cheerleader personality types. My personality is pretty opposite of that. I also wasn't available to date for most of my 20s (long story) when I would have had the most options.

 

It is what it is. I have realized that I can't lower my "asking price" any further and that I would rather be alone that with someone out of desperation.

[carhill]

I have realized that I can't lower my "asking price" any further and that I would rather be alone that with someone out of desperation.

 

Good points all around and I was going to post this on another thread but it fits well into the OP's commentary as well as your response.

 

At a point, one can decide that supplicating at the altar of what society and others deem attractive and desirable is a gross waste of one's time, life, and resources and a perfectly healthy choice is to opt out. Trust me, if we died tomorrow they wouldn't care in the least. That's instructive. Why waste valuable life on such entities? So many more productive things in life to do.

[ZA Dater]

Okay. Then you deserve to fail. Walk away and stop whining.

 

A negative attitude, choosing to believe what is false, the unwillingness to seek and apply knowledge has worked perfectly for you. Just the way it should have.

 

 

Thanks.

 

 

Elaine has already mentioned I am unlikely to appeal to anyone anyway so perhaps walking away is best for all and sundry.

 

 

At least I have an idea what makes for a successful guy, to summarise

: conformist

: charming

: confident

: does things he doesn't like because everyone else does them

: youthful in mind and character

 

 

That about summarises it nicely I think.

 

 

I was hoping some people could sympathise with people who have no success but based on this thread, every single person who posted in it has enjoyed success so I guess its not really possible to relate to people who have enjoyed none.

 

 

I'll say it again, being a good person counts for nothing. Each of you think about that at least once and then tell me there is not something wrong with society at large if being a good person doesn't give you a look in or even one date. I have been on dates with people I didn't like, in fact the vast majority of dates I have been on were with people I didn't like but I still gave them the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

I'll say this too, trudging through each and every day alone, nobody to talk to, nobody to share thought with, absolutely nothingness barring a few people I help and they give me some interaction back. Looking at FB seeing everyone you know is married. Its not a great feeling, I was hoping to maybe learn something useful here to try and take this away but all I got as in every other thread was castigated because I refused to accept piece meal the view of others. I may not be right and I probably am wrong but I cant be so wrong I cannot find any decent person to date me at all.

 

 

For someone who gives as much as I do its extremely tough to accept this lot in life, tougher still to see other people succeed and every time I try I fail, eventually its just impossible to pick oneself up off the canvas and its easier just to crawl out of the ring completely.

 

 

My only real method of self expression is writing, I am ok enough at it to be published, I have used it to try and charm people but the written word sadly doesn't mean much in 2016. Apparently.

 

 

Yes, winning might be a mind set, yes one can read any number of books, watch any number of videos but the level of contradiction between the sources is extraordinary. For mostly worse I am simply stuck in time and forced to watch everything pass me by.

 

 

I just need to accept the many thing I wanted to do I simply wont be able to do, I have always wanted to go sand boarding, go on holiday as an adult. I wont even contemplate doing either of those things on my own, go on my own and look like a total looser with no friends. No thanks.

 

 

Genuinely I thought with this thread I could try pick up some themes, some things I am capable of doing but with each reply I just see there isn't much I can do, I cant change my mind to that of a 23yo, I cant forget the things I have learnt, I can undo the way I speak and I cant forget my interests.

 

 

All I can do is just keep being old me, give and help and try extract some joy from the fact someone is benefitting from my help.

[JuneJulySeptember]

Good points all around and I was going to post this on another thread but it fits well into the OP's commentary as well as your response.

 

At a point, one can decide that supplicating at the altar of what society and others deem attractive and desirable is a gross waste of one's time, life, and resources and a perfectly healthy choice is to opt out. Trust me, if we died tomorrow they wouldn't care in the least. That's instructive. Why waste valuable life on such entities? So many more productive things in life to do.

 

The answer to your question is easy. Families.

 

People settle for partners because they want kids and a family. I have been told so in exact words by a number of people I know. And ... more power to them. You have so many years to live your life. Live it the way you want.

[elaine567]

At a point, one can decide that supplicating at the altar of what society and others deem attractive and desirable is a gross waste of one's time, life, and resources and a perfectly healthy choice is to opt out. Trust me, if we died tomorrow they wouldn't care in the least. That's instructive. Why waste valuable life on such entities? So many more productive things in life to do.

 

Problem here is that is easier to come from a standpoint of having had relationships to say, "OK I've had enough, I'll go and try to climb Everest or I'll make myself a million dollars or I'll build myself a house, or I'll just chill out down at the allotment every day instead" - not so easy done when, like the OP, no relationship has ever been forthcoming.

[elaine567]

 

 

Elaine has already mentioned I am unlikely to appeal to anyone anyway so perhaps walking away is best for all and sundry.

 

 

That is NOT what I said. I just think you are pitching at the wrong audience and it is therefore not surprising you are unsuccessful.

[carhill]

TBH, going back to the OP, when I was his age, had I opted out then, I'd be in a far healthier place now than I am, all around. However, as another member posted, reproductive urges to create immortality through progeny was strong so the id overruled common sense and what occurred, occurred. Can't rewrite history but certainly can reflect on it for clarity. He'll have his own path. Hopefully he'll find his own peace as I have.

[PrettyEmily77]

Thanks.

 

 

Elaine has already mentioned I am unlikely to appeal to anyone anyway so perhaps walking away is best for all and sundry.

 

 

At least I have an idea what makes for a successful guy, to summarise

: conformist

: charming

: confident

: does things he doesn't like because everyone else does them

: youthful in mind and character

 

 

That about summarises it nicely I think.

 

 

I was hoping some people could sympathise with people who have no success but based on this thread, every single person who posted in it has enjoyed success so I guess its not really possible to relate to people who have enjoyed none.

 

 

I'll say it again, being a good person counts for nothing. Each of you think about that at least once and then tell me there is not something wrong with society at large if being a good person doesn't give you a look in or even one date. I have been on dates with people I didn't like, in fact the vast majority of dates I have been on were with people I didn't like but I still gave them the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

I'll say this too, trudging through each and every day alone, nobody to talk to, nobody to share thought with, absolutely nothingness barring a few people I help and they give me some interaction back. Looking at FB seeing everyone you know is married. Its not a great feeling, I was hoping to maybe learn something useful here to try and take this away but all I got as in every other thread was castigated because I refused to accept piece meal the view of others. I may not be right and I probably am wrong but I cant be so wrong I cannot find any decent person to date me at all.

 

 

For someone who gives as much as I do its extremely tough to accept this lot in life, tougher still to see other people succeed and every time I try I fail, eventually its just impossible to pick oneself up off the canvas and its easier just to crawl out of the ring completely.

 

 

My only real method of self expression is writing, I am ok enough at it to be published, I have used it to try and charm people but the written word sadly doesn't mean much in 2016. Apparently.

 

 

Yes, winning might be a mind set, yes one can read any number of books, watch any number of videos but the level of contradiction between the sources is extraordinary. For mostly worse I am simply stuck in time and forced to watch everything pass me by.

 

 

I just need to accept the many thing I wanted to do I simply wont be able to do, I have always wanted to go sand boarding, go on holiday as an adult. I wont even contemplate doing either of those things on my own, go on my own and look like a total looser with no friends. No thanks.

 

 

Genuinely I thought with this thread I could try pick up some themes, some things I am capable of doing but with each reply I just see there isn't much I can do, I cant change my mind to that of a 23yo, I cant forget the things I have learnt, I can undo the way I speak and I cant forget my interests.

 

 

All I can do is just keep being old me, give and help and try extract some joy from the fact someone is benefitting from my help.

 

I think this is a highly subjective list, plus a guy who is successful in dating may not be successful in other areas of his life.

 

Re. going on holiday on your own - I did that a few times; I found it to be a great way to meet new people and not once have I ever felt like a loser or been made to feel like one.

[ZA Dater]

That is NOT what I said. I just think you are pitching at the wrong audience and it is therefore not surprising you are unsuccessful.

 

By the same token you cant tell me where I should be looking either.

[ZA Dater]

no relationship has ever been forthcoming.

 

Exactly this.

[elaine567]

By the same token you cant tell me where I should be looking either.

One word - older

Do not come out with the "Oh no, not the fat, single mothers again..."

Plenty single women over 27 who are not mothers and not fat either.

[normal person]

At least I have an idea what makes for a successful guy, to summarise

: conformist

: charming

: confident

: does things he doesn't like because everyone else does them

: youthful in mind and character

 

Confident, yes. Charming, yes, but not necessary. All the other stuff, not so much.

 

I'll say it again, being a good person counts for nothing.

 

Being a good person counts for a lot assuming that's not the only "attractive" quality you have. Lots of people are good people. They enter in relationships for reasons varied far beyond being attracted to their partners' "goodness." Let's say you're browsing some online dating profiles and you come across one without any picture or personality. All it is a description of how the girl is a good person, with specific examples. Are you attracted to this person? She's good, after all. Or do you need some more information?

 

The point being, being a decent person is expected and a nice supplement to have in the event that you meet all the other criteria. On it's own, it's rarely enough to foster romantic appeal.

 

Each of you think about that at least once and then tell me there is not something wrong with society at large if being a good person doesn't give you a look in or even one date.

 

Even if there is something wrong with that, what good is complaining about it going to do? Your problem is that you're trying to view a biological attraction, which is an irrational, natural urge, through the lens of society, which is a construction. Society doesn't dictate who you feel attracted to. You're far from the first guy to lament "I'm such a good person, why don't women like me?" -- you've just got to realize that this doesn't make any sense within the context of dating. It's the same as saying, "I eat an apple every day, why don't women like me?" So you're a good person, congratulations. Why is that relevant? Your appeal to women isn't how nice you are, or how many apples you eat, or whatever irrelevant thing it is.

 

Because women aren't really looking for men who hang their hat on being just "good." They're looking for men that make them feel something, who are attractive to them in some way, and who can provide and protect, amongst other things. Being a doctor is primarily appealing to woman not because of the altruism of it, but because of earning power and security of it. The "goodness" is secondary. That's why women are fawning over doctors, not guys who earn a pittance at humanitarian non profits. Lawyers are typically held in the same regard and many people would hesitate to call lawyers inherently good. Do you think women go see Magic Mike and read 50 Shades of Grey because the male characters are just so good? Goodness doesn't get anyone excited or turn anyone on. It's largely irrelevant in terms of attraction. Good is the wrong tool for the job. Money, excitement, security, beauty, entertainment, and mystery are much, much better tools. You don't have to ditch goodness, but you need some of these.

 

 

I have been on dates with people I didn't like, in fact the vast majority of dates I have been on were with people I didn't like but I still gave them the benefit of the doubt.

 

Take no offense, but I'm guessing you did this because of your lack of other options, not out of decency. I'm a very decent, giving person as well and I sure as heck don't go out with every woman who expresses some interest in me. My time is too valuable and I have very high standards. Not everyone has the time, patience, or money to do that. Or the lack of other options to necessitate it. It's just impractical and no woman would blame you for not wanting to go out with someone you aren't interested in. Sorry, but you doing it doesn't make it the gold standard of etiquette, and it can't be used to leverage action out of everyone else. Everyone's circumstances are different. Let's say a women, whose time is valuable, gets 5 messages a day from guys she isn't interested in, and one from a guy whom she is. Does she have to go out with all of them? Or can she afford to pick and choose?

 

I could also make a whole other post about how your willingness to go out with any other person just to be nice, or to give the benefit of the doubt, at the expense of your own time and resources, is unattractive. But I won't right now.

 

Genuinely I thought with this thread I could try pick up some themes, some things I am capable of doing but with each reply I just see there isn't much I can do, I cant change my mind to that of a 23yo, I cant forget the things I have learnt, I can undo the way I speak and I cant forget my interests.

 

Survival of the fittest. The world isn't going to adapt to you, you have to adapt to the world. If you want something more than what you've got, you've got to step out of your comfort zone to get it. No one's saying "act like a 23 year old," but some more sound advice would be "don't expect female attention just because you're nice."

 

All I can do is just keep being old me, give and help and try extract some joy from the fact someone is benefitting from my help.

 

You can always change. It's not necessarily easy, but it's possible.

[JuneJulySeptember]

TBH, going back to the OP, when I was his age, had I opted out then, I'd be in a far healthier place now than I am, all around. However, as another member posted, reproductive urges to create immortality through progeny was strong so the id overruled common sense and what occurred, occurred. Can't rewrite history but certainly can reflect on it for clarity. He'll have his own path. Hopefully he'll find his own peace as I have.

 

Ah well. I may have misinterpreted your post.

 

If the idea is to never settle and opt out of finding a partner all together, then yea, that's not a great option for most people because they want a family,

 

If the idea is to not choose what society deems attractive, then yea there are some people who do that.

[Imajerk17]

ZA, keep in mind that was is said below is intended to help you.

 

I think that something that you--and a few other guys who have struggled with women--need is an outside (preferably in-person) perspective--on how you are coming across and on how you are going about meeting women. I notice that there are a few of you who have very rigid, sclerotic, views on The Way Things Are--and you seem unwilling to suspend disbelief that things may be different from that.

 

There's no one single who is your age or older? Not true, otherwise Match and OKCupid wouldn't be things. Women only like conformists? Really? Anyone ever tell Steve Jobs or Albert Einstein (a nerd who was no virgin) that? You can't be serious. Closer to home I know a few eccentric guys who do pretty decently with women. In fact, the guys who do really well with women know who they are and live life on their terms. They aren't out doing what they don't want trying to fit in, that's for sure. So there goes a couple of items on your list of what women really want in a guy.

 

I can only go by your posts here, but I'm not really seeing what you've been doing to improve your dating life. You've asked out one woman in the past year and she said no. So what. You've improved your fashion (good for you) but are you sure your fashion was even your problem?

 

I can also say that when I decided that I needed to get MY dating life handled, I got rejected a lot more than you did. I'd approach a woman and get blown off. I'd go on first dates and not get a second. This sort of thing happened to me A LOT. Man, it did suck, but instead of whining and saying that I can't succeed in dating because women are this, women are that, I took responsibility and I took feedback. Maybe I was coming across too needy or intense. Maybe that joke I always liked to tell was offensive to the women I was trying to charm. Maybe I needed to be more like the women I liked--adventurous and loving life--instead of asking for that in a partner when I really wasn't that way myself. Soon things got a lot better for me.

 

They can for you too, but you have to be open for feedback from the right people.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Imajerk17

[JuneJulySeptember]

 

Because women aren't really looking for men who hang their hat on being just "good." They're looking for men that make them feel something, who are attractive to them in some way, and who can provide and protect, amongst other things. Being a doctor is primarily appealing to woman not because of the altruism of it, but because of earning power and security of it. The "goodness" is secondary. That's why women are fawning over doctors, not guys who earn a pittance at humanitarian non profits. Lawyers are typically held in the same regard and many people would hesitate to call lawyers inherently good. Do you think women go see Magic Mike and read 50 Shades of Grey because the male characters are just so good? Goodness doesn't get anyone excited or turn anyone on. It's largely irrelevant in terms of attraction. Good is the wrong tool for the job. Money, excitement, security, beauty, entertainment, and mystery are much, much better tools. You don't have to ditch goodness, but you need some of these.

 

True story.

 

I had/have two friends, both whom actually live in NYC.

 

One is a dentist who earns more than most doctors, has a really nice pad in midtown and is/was a social party guy. He's also short. Despite that, he did OK and had some decent women just because he is what you say ... what women are looking for. He was the life of the party, played in a band, acted in a B movie, interesting, smart, rich, cosmopolitan. Never did or paid attention to crap that was a waste of time in terms of getting women such as sports, watching dumb movies about serial killers and horror movies, and drinking in old man dive bars (which I'll add is stuff I love ). But that is him and that is always the way he was.

 

Another one of my friends was just the total opposite. Stuttered, dressed bad, bad haircuts, bad with talking to women. No real interests that were "cool" to women.

 

Anyway, they met somehow. He fell in love with my friend and decided he wanted to change everything about himself to become like my first friend. And my first friend decided to take him under his wing. They were inseparable for a few years. I mean, two guys who were so different. He went out and got him expensive haircuts, trendy clothes, told him how to talk to women, took him on as his band's roadie, introduced him to all the women he knew, took him everywhere he went.

 

And he got nothing. No women. None. As a matter of fact, women thought he was creepy because his new ambitious personality didn't really match his looks, demeanor, or his base personality. But even I'm surprised he got nothing, because I don't totally disagree with your premise.

 

I mean, we're talking the equivalent of you taking of one of the 'struggling dudes' from this forum and having him shadow you for a few years and him literally listen to every piece of advice you gave him without question because he adored you that much. I mean, how many women do you think you could really get them?

 

I think you'd be surprised at the results. Base personality is just something that is so strong. Even if you wanted to, you cannot change it just like that.

Edited March 22, 2016 by JuneJulySeptember