BetheButterfly Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Out of curiosity, why is St. Patrick's Day associated with drinking alcohol? I don't get that. Did St. Patrick (Maewyn Succat or Patricius) as he called himself consume a lot of alcohol? Or, does that have more to do with cultural customs in Ireland? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
Haydn Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 If you ever visit Ireland, you will see..... They do like a drink.... No need for a special occasion... 3 Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden2 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I hate to tell you this, but nobody - including the Irish - celebrates St Patrick's day in the same way and to the same degree as the Americans. And sadly, it's any old excuse for over-indulgence. Whisky - is scottish. Whiskey - is Irish. While there is a load of old blarney about leprechauns, pots of gold at the end of the rainbow, and little tots of the water of life, (that's what whisk(e)y means) drinking to excess is a human condition, both widespread and worldwide. And alcohol is not in any way associated with St Patrick. But as I said, any excuse for a hangover.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Tullamore dew is Irish and so is Jamison's and they are both whiskeys. I'd never do a shot of Jamison's though but it's okay in Irish coffee. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author BetheButterfly Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 If you ever visit Ireland, you will see..... My Mom and one of my sisters have gone there and have seen the last names that match our ancestors' last names on gravestones there. We don't know if they are truly our ancestors though. Much of my ancestry is shrouded in mystery. They do like a drink.... No need for a special occasion... So it's more an American thing? St. Patrick's Day and alcohol? Link to post Share on other sites
Author BetheButterfly Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 Tullamore dew is Irish and so is Jamison's and they are both whiskeys. I'd never do a shot of Jamison's though but it's okay in Irish coffee. Didn't know that. I learn a new thing everyday lol, but I want to know, did St. Patrick consume a lot of alcohol? Does anyone know? When did St. Patrick's day become get drunk day? Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Didn't know that. I learn a new thing everyday lol, but I want to know, did St. Patrick consume a lot of alcohol? Does anyone know? When did St. Patrick's day become get drunk day? It's a way to celebrate St. Patrick who drive the snakes out of Ireland. Drinking is what Irish people do in celebration or in sorrow. And some on pay day. Link to post Share on other sites
Author BetheButterfly Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 I hate to tell you this, but nobody - including the Irish - celebrates St Patrick's day in the same way and to the same degree as the Americans. Yay you answered my question thanks! And sadly, it's any old excuse for over-indulgence. Whisky - is scottish. Whiskey - is Irish. So then, St. Patrick's day is just an excuse to get drunk here in the USA? While there is a load of old blarney about leprechauns, pots of gold at the end of the rainbow, and little tots of the water of life, (that's what whisk(e)y means) Lol drinking to excess is a human condition, both widespread and worldwide. True. And alcohol is not in any way associated with St Patrick. But as I said, any excuse for a hangover.... Thanks! I didn't think so. I'm not Catholic and I don't know much about St. Patrick. (I absolutely adore Irish/Scottish festivals, however, but they are more about dancing and bagpipes than about religion.) Is it true that St. Patrick expelled or killed the druids? I heard that rumor but I don't know if it's true or not. I already know that St. Patrick didn't get rid of the snakes in Ireland because snakes are not native to Ireland in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden2 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 The Druid symbol was a snake, so that's probably where the connection lies. Converting Pagans and heathens to Christianity was a bolshy, in-your-face choose-it-or-lose-it affair. You either did, and complied, or didn't and suffered the consequences. Remember that Christianity and the Church held very different powers in those days, and Politics and religion were close - even if uneasy - bedfellows.... I suspect there may have been violent intent - and action - in those days, when the Christians went all out with the "Follow me!" message. Perhaps St Paddy was a scoundrel, perhaps he wasn't. It's hard to distinguish legend from fact. Probably somewhere in the middle.... Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Is it true that St. Patrick expelled or killed the druids? I heard that rumor but I don't know if it's true or not. I already know that St. Patrick didn't get rid of the snakes in Ireland because snakes are not native to Ireland in the first place. Legend has it that the pagans brought them in with wizardry and St. Patrick led them into the river with the help of God. But maybe the Druids are what the Irish were referring to as snakes. Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden2 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 In fact it was the Celtic Druid symbol... That's where the connection lies. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 My father use to say that St. Patrick was an Italian that the Irish celebrate the same way that Christopher Columbus was an Italian that Americans celebrate. My dad was a very proud Italian. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author BetheButterfly Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 The Druid symbol was a snake, so that's probably where the connection lies. Interestingly, the Tanakh also has a snake symbol that Jesus talked about, accounted in John 3:14. So, a snake symbol is not always bad, when it is not worshiped. Did the Druids worship the snake? Converting Pagans and heathens to Christianity was a bolshy, in-your-face choose-it-or-lose-it affair. You either did, and complied, or didn't and suffered the consequences. Sad but true, which is why many people believe Christianity is violent, even though Jesus Christ never commanded his followers to force convert people or persecute people. Remember that Christianity and the Church held very different powers in those days, and Politics and religion were close - even if uneasy - bedfellows.... True. I suspect there may have been violent intent - and action - in those days, when the Christians went all out with the "Follow me!" message. Perhaps St Paddy was a scoundrel, perhaps he wasn't. It's hard to distinguish legend from fact. Very good point. I hope Patrick didn't force convert anybody to convert and I hope he didn't persecute/expell/kill people who didn't convert! Probably somewhere in the middle... Yeah. Thanks for answering my questions! Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden2 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 I still am...! He might be of Scottish origin. Some say Welsh. But his mamma and-a Papa were definnilly Hitalian! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author BetheButterfly Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 Legend has it that the pagans brought them in with wizardry and St. Patrick led them into the river with the help of God. Oh. That's interesting. Reminds me of Moses and the rods turned to snakes in Egypt! But maybe the Druids are what the Irish were referring to as snakes. That's possible too. Thanks for answering my questions! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author BetheButterfly Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 My father use to say that St. Patrick was an Italian that the Irish celebrate the same way that Christopher Columbus was an Italian that Americans celebrate. My dad was a very proud Italian. St. Patrick had Roman ancestry as well as British, correct? The Roman Empire conquered some of the British Isles, yeah? Link to post Share on other sites
amaysngrace Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 St. Patrick had Roman ancestry as well as British, correct? I don't believe so but maybe. I know he was born there but I am not sure if he had British ancestry. My dad never mentioned that part. Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden2 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 Interestingly, the Tanakh also has a snake symbol that Jesus talked about, accounted in John 3:14. So, a snake symbol is not always bad, when it is not worshiped. Did the Druids worship the snake? The snake has always got bad press ever since Eve declared, "Oh, yeah, sure, I will try that Golden delicious, thank you so much!" and allegedly screwed over mankind for the rest of time! However, in may traditions (including Celtic) the snake is a symbol of shedding old, unwanted, debilitating habits and adopting a newer, better life. A snake sheds (sloughs) its skin, but essentially remains the same. The Waorani tribe in the Amazon regard the Giant Green Anaconda as a spiritual snake which, when captured and held, will impart strength and resolve to them. They do not ever kill or harm the snake, but bestow much respect and reverence on something so huge and powerful. They hunt and live in the forest, and live side by side with some pretty dangerous neighbours. However, the greatest threat to their lifestyle - and very existence - is the rape of the amazon by Oil companies, exploiting the resources of the forest, and polluting the river. Whenever they hunt and capture a snake now, they have been taught by scientists and naturalists to take small samples of the snake's tail scales, for laboratory examination to evaluate the levels of pollution in the waterways. What was once a symbol and ordeal, and initiation rite for the young men of the tribe, has now become a race to save their lives and preserve their heritage. So effectively, they are working with the snake, on a conservation programme. Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden2 Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 St. Patrick had Roman ancestry as well as British, correct? The Roman Empire conquered some of the British Isles, yeah? His parents were Italian, but he was born in the British Isles. The Romans TRIED to conquer the British Isles but were in fact beaten into submission by the weather and climate conditions. Too cold, too wet, too northerly. However, on and off, they did eventually stay for a total of 400 years or so. And the Romans ultimately withdrew from the British Isles due to warring factions in mainland Europe. Their Homeland needed them. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author BetheButterfly Posted March 21, 2016 Author Share Posted March 21, 2016 The snake has always got bad press ever since Eve declared, "Oh, yeah, sure, I will try that Golden delicious, thank you so much!" and allegedly screwed over mankind for the rest of time! Lol!!! Well, I believe that it is true that the "snake" tempted Eve and Adam to sin against God. However I have often wondered if the "snake" was possessed by satan, sorta like how demons possessed the pigs which led the poor pigs to drown themselves (Luke 8:33). I understand why many people don't believe these Biblical accounts are true, but I personally believe they are true. In a debate, I've had to defend Jesus Christ for allowing the demons to go into the pigs... that was an interesting debate, that's for sure! However, in may traditions (including Celtic) the snake is a symbol of shedding old, unwanted, debilitating habits and adopting a newer, better life. Sorta like the metamorphosis of a butterfly, except for staying in the same form but newer and fresher? A snake sheds (sloughs) its skin, but essentially remains the same. The Waorani tribe in the Amazon regard the Giant Green Anaconda as a spiritual snake which, when captured and held, will impart strength and resolve to them. They do not ever kill or harm the snake, but bestow much respect and reverence on something so huge and powerful. They hunt and live in the forest, and live side by side with some pretty dangerous neighbours. That's fascinating! However, the greatest threat to their lifestyle - and very existence - is the rape of the amazon by Oil companies, exploiting the resources of the forest, and polluting the river. Oh, don't get my hubby started on what the oil companies did to his native country of Ecuador! My hubby loves the USA and I am so thankful that he immigrated to the USA like my ancestors did so long ago. He is however sad by what happened to his native country because of American oil companies who raped Ecuadorian land for oil. This is not the USA's fault. It's the fault of both Chevron and the Ecuadorian government. While the rich "caste" in Ecuador got richer, the poor got poorer and the "rape" caused havoc in a very beautiful land. The worst case of oil pollution on the planet Whenever they hunt and capture a snake now, they have been taught by scientists and naturalists to take small samples of the snake's tail scales, for laboratory examination to evaluate the levels of pollution in the waterways. What was once a symbol and ordeal, and initiation rite for the young men of the tribe, has now become a race to save their lives and preserve their heritage. So effectively, they are working with the snake, on a conservation programme.That is interesting. Definitely both humans and animals (not humans) suffer the harmful effects of pollution. Link to post Share on other sites
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