Becoming more then friends with a friend

[Guest]

I have a serious problem, as I'm sure most people seeking advice on this board do. I have recently managed to put my self into a situation that I would not wish on my worse enemy.

 

To help understand the situation allow me to give you some details about the people involved.

 

I'll begin with my relationship. My wife and I have been having problems for a few years, I'm not emotionally invested in our relationship and she is having an affair. I'd say we're pretty even on who is hurting who but at this point this is the least of my concerns. We are going to marriage counseling and IMO I doubt the marriage can be saved.

 

The other people, my wife and I have been friends with another couple for many years. My wife has been friends with the girl since grade school. This couples relationship is as much a disaster as my own. They have been having problems for a few years as well and I think they have both had affairs. She is completely miserable, wants nothing to do with him physically or emotionally and he is controlling, manipulative and overbearing. I believe the only reason she does not leave is because she is afraid of what he would do. I also think that the only reason he is not willing to let her leave is because he has been married previously and she left him.

 

Now that you have some details we can go back to the problem at hand. Recently my wife and her husband went out of town, not together. While they were gone she and I decided to go out one night, this was not a big deal we go out together often and nothing had ever come of it in the past. While we were out we had a great time and thoroughly enjoyed each others company. At some point things between us went beyond friendship. I'm not exactly sure how it happened but we ended up having a conversation about how we truly felt about each other and our marriages. We spent the night together talking until early in the morning then fell asleep together. This was as much of a shock to me as it was to her. We have apparently "liked" each other for several years but neither of us had ever felt that it was mutual or that we could act on it.

 

Since this night we have talked just about everyday and do the best we can to see each other everyday. We have done nothing more then a kiss on the cheek and a huge. We both know that our feelings are wrong and we would hurt so many people if any one ever found out how we feel about each other. We are desperately trying to figure out a way to stop this but honestly neither of us want to. Even with us constantly talking about how we shouldn't be doing this we find ourselves making excuses as to why we continue. I know with how our current relationships are, that there is a possibility that this is nothing more then an infatuation, but we have felt this way about each other for years it is only now that our marriages are falling apart that we have expressed our feelings. So I would be inclined to disagree with that assessment, which I'm sure most people in my current situation would say.

 

Even though that newness and feeling of lust that we have both longed for for so long is there we are fully aware that this feeling eventually fades as it does with all relationships. However, we both agree that our experiences from our current relationships have taught us a lot and that we would do our best to prevent it from happening to us if we end up together.

 

The friendship that the four of us have is important to all of us. Neither of us want to lose a close friend for an infatuation, because if that is all this is eventually we will resent each other for what we've done and the relationship would end leaving us both very much alone.

 

I'm sure many people have been in a situation similar to this and I would like to here what happened. I want to be happy and I feel that this girl could make me happier then I can imagine, she is an amazing woman and I would give up everything to be with her.

[tiki]

If you don't want your wife, divorce her. She should do the same.

 

What a gross situation. It's not okay for you guys to be sleeping with other people, you're MARRIED for God's sake. Wake up and smell your wedding vows.

 

Marriage is not a game and you guys are obviously treating it as such. How bout treating it like the sacred formation it once was? What? It got too hard to do? Oh well, then get a frickin divorce. It's a sick, mind-f*cking game. Ick. ::shudder::

 

Come on!

[MWC_LifeBeginsAt40]

Originally posted by Guest

 

Even though that newness and feeling of lust that we have both longed for for so long is there we are fully aware that this feeling eventually fades as it does with all relationships. However, we both agree that our experiences from our current relationships have taught us a lot and that we would do our best to prevent it from happening to us if we end up together.

 

 

Then why not put this to use in your current marriages and prevent two divorces now.

[I Survived]

If you know how much your current actions would hurt everyone, why do you continue? I say that if you say or do things with each other that you wouldn't say or do in front of your spouses, what you're doing is wrong. Stop this now before it's too late. Transfer that energy to your own spouses and work on what you have in your marriages. I'm getting so tired of reading the ludicrous postings on this site. Is infidelity running rampant or what? Cheating causes so much pain, I just don't understand it. It makes me so sad.

[sylviaguardian]

Hallo Guest,

 

Nice to have you here. A few words about what you've said so far:

 

My wife and I have been having problems for a few years, I'm not emotionally invested in our relationship and she is having an affair. I'd say we're pretty even on who is hurting who but at this point this is the least of my concerns. We are going to marriage counseling and IMO I doubt the marriage can be saved.

 

OK, the reason why there is doubt that your marriage can be saved is because your wife is having an affair and you are not emotionally invested. NO marriage can survive under these circumstances. This is the real problem. The counselling is a waste of time. If you really want to give your marriage a chance, your wife needs to end the affair and you need to invest.

 

The other people, my wife and I have been friends with another couple for many years. My wife has been friends with the girl since grade school. This couples relationship is as much a disaster as my own. They have been having problems for a few years as well and I think they have both had affairs. She is completely miserable, wants nothing to do with him physically or emotionally and he is controlling, manipulative and overbearing. I believe the only reason she does not leave is because she is afraid of what he would do. I also think that the only reason he is not willing to let her leave is because he has been married previously and she left him.

 

This is typical affair talk. If your friend's husband was so bad, she would have found a way to leave him. Remember, you are only getting one side of the story. This is probably the story the wife gave to her affair partner too - my husband doesn't understand me, he's not there for me, he doesn't make me feel special etc etc etc. I bet you have told your friend the same thing about your wife - she's having an affair, I don't love her anymore, it's just a matter of time...

 

At some point things between us went beyond friendship. I'm not exactly sure how it happened but we ended up having a conversation about how we truly felt about each other and our marriages. We spent the night together talking until early in the morning then fell asleep together. This was as much of a shock to me as it was to her. We have apparently "liked" each other for several years but neither of us had ever felt that it was mutual or that we could act on it.

 

Uh-huh, this is what happens when people have an emotional void in their life. They start to see other people as filling it for them. The reason why it has happened 'suddenly' is because you are starting to give up on your marriage. It probably has little to do with your friend. Just remember, the way she acts with you now is not how she's going to act 1 year down the line (unless you keep it as a 'magical' affair of course.)

 

Since this night we have talked just about everyday and do the best we can to see each other everyday. We have done nothing more then a kiss on the cheek and a huge. We both know that our feelings are wrong and we would hurt so many people if any one ever found out how we feel about each other.

 

Yup, what about her husband? Is he not a friend of yours? Do you know what it will do to him? Remember, you are only hearing her side of the story. Perhaps hearing his would give you a more 'balanced' picture?

 

We are desperately trying to figure out a way to stop this but honestly neither of us want to. Even with us constantly talking about how we shouldn't be doing this we find ourselves making excuses as to why we continue.

 

If you desperately want a way to stop it try this: tell her that what you are doing is wrong, that you have no desire to break up a marriage and hurt a friend, as well as LET YOURSELF DOWN. You are committing to working on your marriage as she should with hers and that the only way you are going to have contact is when you meet as couples (and probably some time down the line). Sound harsh? Don't want to do it? OK, but remember you had a choice. No affairs end well (read this board). Be prepared for what will happen. Lucrezia Borgia posted a brilliant thing about why two people having affairs does not even the score. Your wife's idea about what she is doing might be different to yours (e.g. she might not want to leave the marriage, you might want to). You have to be prepared for the possibility that your affair might be the deal-breaker. Also, her husband might be no prince but read the boards here and see some of the devastation that the injured party goes there. Will you like yourself in the mirror after you have destroyed someone?

 

I know with how our current relationships are, that there is a possibility that this is nothing more then an infatuation, but we have felt this way about each other for years it is only now that our marriages are falling apart that we have expressed our feelings. So I would be inclined to disagree with that assessment, which I'm sure most people in my current situation would say.

 

You are right. It never fails to amaze how what we all do is so similar yet we think that for us it is 'special' and 'different'.

 

Even though that newness and feeling of lust that we have both longed for for so long is there we are fully aware that this feeling eventually fades as it does with all relationships. However, we both agree that our experiences from our current relationships have taught us a lot and that we would do our best to prevent it from happening to us if we end up together.

 

I am sorry but I have to disagree with this. The only thing that you and your wife have learned from marriage is that when it gets tough you are entitled to turn to someone else. How about trying a different tack and telling your wife that you are going to give the marriage a 100% chance at working and you would like if she tried the same?

 

 

I'm sure many people have been in a situation similar to this and I would like to here what happened. I want to be happy and I feel that this girl could make me happier then I can imagine, she is an amazing woman and I would give up everything to be with her.

 

There are so many people here who have been in your situation and what I can remember, it always end up as a disastrous painful mess. Also, try looking at the OW/OM board and you will see pretty much the same. The usual thing is that man eventually goes back to his wife once he realises that the grass is not greener, only the marriage is a whole lot worse for it.

 

My questions to you would be: if your marriage is dead, why are you both continuing with MC?

- Does your wife know that you know about her affair? Why have you allowed this?

- Do you feel any kind of bond at all with your wife?

- Have you really thought about what the future will really be like? Can you imagine your wife out of your life?

- Do you have kids?

- How long have you been married?

 

I get the feeling that you've come onto this board in the hope that we'll all say "Go for it. You've found someone special. You deserve to be together" The amazing thing about affairs is that 'special' is subjective. Anything is special if it is forbidden, exciting, spontaneous etc.

 

If it really is so much better you would have left by now. Think hard because the one thing that most people on here would like to do is turn the clock back.

 

I wish you all the best.

Sylvia

[Guest]

I would just like to thank everyone for there opinions, advice and honesty. I appreciate what everyone is saying and hope that I am not a total moron and actually listen to you all.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that you are correct about a marriage not being able to survive what is happening to me unless we both try to save it. Not that I am not trying to justifying my recent actions or even past actions, but an explanation seems appropriate at this point.

 

My wife's affair began about 6 months ago. Prior to that we had problems for several years but neither of us strayed from the marriage. Before the affair we made small steps to improve our relationship. When she started her affair and I found out (I thought it was only a friend not a lover) I made leaps and bounds to fix things. For several months I did everything and anything I could to prevent her from leaving. After six months of daily contact with OM and secret visits, that I still can't figure out. I decided that it was time to give up, she had no interest in working things out with me. Shortly after I gave up and said I wanted a divorce she had a change of heart. Since my decision to divorce a month ago, I have learned that she did in fact have sex with him and they exchanged I love you's and learned of multiple visits (He lives about 1500 miles away). Even after she said she wanted the marriage to work she continued to talk to him and tell him how much she loved him. It was the day after I confronted her about having sex with him that I think she stopped talking to him. But she lied about so many things that I do not believe all contact has been broken, only what I can check.

 

To tell you the truth this entire situation makes me feel like crap. Yes, I am friends with her husband and yes, I have heard his side of the story. Just as she has heard both sides of my story. This does not make things easier and we both agree that it is wrong. I know that conversations we have would never be except-able if or spouses were with us, however our spouses are not exactly saints in there own right so there is only so much guilt I am willing to burden myself with. This probably makes me sound like an evil self centered bastard with no respect for someone else's emotions. I would tend to disagree with that since I am not willing to do anything more then talk with her. Your right that we fill an emotional void in our lives for each other and again our actions are wrong but we both agree that there can be nothing more then conversation for now.

 

As for stopping it, Sylvia's advice is good, however like she said it is to harsh for me.

 

 

 

Originally posted by sylviaguardian

I am sorry but I have to disagree with this. The only thing that you and your wife have learned from marriage is that when it gets tough you are entitled to turn to someone else. How about trying a different tack and telling your wife that you are going to give the marriage a 100% chance at working and you would like if she tried the same?

Just to be clear, I did not turn to someone else at first. When things got tough I tried to sort out the problems on my own. I did not want to hurt my wife and thought that I could fix the problems I was having on my own without hurting her. This was at least a good theory a few years ago, now that I have seen what has happened I realize that maybe it wasn't such a good idea. After she started her affair, I went to my wife and begged for counseling and to talk and work out our problems. My wife did however turn to someone else and at first I was willing to try and forgive, but at some point there is no turning back. Had she really wanted to fix our marriage she would have made more of an effort earlier on in her affair or not kept him around once she decided to work things out with me.

 

Originally posted by sylviaguardian

My questions to you would be: if your marriage is dead, why are you both continuing with MC?

- Does your wife know that you know about her affair? Why have you allowed this?

- Do you feel any kind of bond at all with your wife?

- Have you really thought about what the future will really be like? Can you imagine your wife out of your life?

- Do you have kids?

- How long have you been married?

- Yes, I confronted her about it. I did not allow it, I tried to stop it and now after 6 months I want a divorce.

- The bond is gone, along with trust, respect, love, and forgiveness. But then again I'm angry and hurt which cloud my judgment. Now that she wants it to work and I know the truth (not necessarily the whole truth) I have to make a hasty decision because she does not want to wait.

- Yes, and there will be times that I miss her, but I'm not scared to be alone for a while. It is hard to imagine life without her but I have spent a large majority of the past 6 months without her and it hasn't been that bad.

- No kids, and the other relationship has kids from his previous marriage but he does not have full custody.

- We've been together for 10 years and married for 5. We were high school sweet hearts.

 

Originally posted by sylviaguardian

I get the feeling that you've come onto this board in the hope that we'll all say "Go for it. You've found someone special. You deserve to be together" The amazing thing about affairs is that 'special' is subjective. Anything is special if it is forbidden, exciting, spontaneous etc.

No actually I came onto the boards because I know my judgment is clouded and a third party opinion with no emotional tie to the situation is much more objective and non-bias. I was looking for advice and to learn more about what will happen. I do know that blissful happiness between to married people who are not actually married to each other is an exception to the rule and that I have a better chance of hitting the lottery on consecutive days then for this situation to play out in a positive result.

 

Originally posted by sylviaguardian

If it really is so much better you would have left by now. Think hard because the one thing that most people on here would like to do is turn the clock back.

I have not left because now that my wife has changed her mind I am finding it difficult to have her agree to divorce. The marriage counseling at this point is to help her understand that and yes maybe after 10 years I am a little hesitant to pack up and leave hastily. Nonetheless I still want to leave and nothing has happened to make me change my mind. Turning back the clock is a pleasant thought if I could I would, but then again if I had the power to do that, why bother making hard decisions I can just redo it if I don't like the out come. Life is full of decisions and any one that can say they have lived there life without making mistakes, is naive and wrong. Without hardship and choices the motivation to be happy would be nonexistent and nothing would ever be done. Every choice I have made in my life has had some kind of consequence regardless of how good or bad the result. I do not regret anything I have ever done, because I would not be the person I am today had I done things differently at some point in my life. Everybody wishes they could have done something different, but only those who can except what they have done can ever truly find happiness and live life.

[sylviaguardian]

Sorry if my advice sounded harsh - it was not my intention. However, I have been on this board now for around 9 months and the same old stories come and go. It just seems amazing to me that, as humans, we go on making the same mistakes over and over. You seem pretty set in your mind as to what you want to do. If you really want a divorce, stop the counselling and tell your wife it is over. She will accept it then. Then you can be with the person you want to be with and you don't have to have an affair to do it.

 

On the other hand, if you are telling us how set you are on a divorce because you really want to pursue your affair then you have a few options:

 

- continue with the counselling, trying to get your wife to see that the marriage is over whilst having an affair

- continue with the counselling whilst letting your wife think that it is doing the marriage some good, whilst having an affair

 

Alternatively you might consider this

 

 

- Yes, I confronted her about it. I did not allow it, I tried to stop it and now after 6 months I want a divorce.

 

Telling your wife that if she wants to really try to make the marriage work she has to come clean about who she had the affair with, when she say him, what they did and she has to agree to never see or speak to him again. She should send an e-mail or whatever stating that she never wants contact from him again.

 

- The bond is gone, along with trust, respect, love, and forgiveness. But then again I'm angry and hurt which cloud my judgment. Now that she wants it to work and I know the truth (not necessarily the whole truth) I have to make a hasty decision because she does not want to wait.

 

You are right - the bond might be obscured because of the enormous hurt and uncertainty you feel. You need to get rid of the uncertainty to see if you feel the same way.

 

If you can get your wife to come clean and sever all contact with this person, there might be a chance. however, for this to happen you would have to sever all contact with your friend too. I think at this moment, both you and your wife and keeping a 'safety net' in case it all goes wrong (which it is bound to under these cirmcumstances).

 

it's a tough call friend. It would be a long hard slog but it might be worth it. Only you can know if it is worth trying anymore.

 

 

No actually I came onto the boards because I know my judgment is clouded and a third party opinion with no emotional tie to the situation is much more objective and non-bias. I was looking for advice and to learn more about what will happen. I do know that blissful happiness between to married people who are not actually married to each other is an exception to the rule and that I have a better chance of hitting the lottery on consecutive days then for this situation to play out in a positive result.

 

Everybody wishes they could have done something different, but only those who can except what they have done can ever truly find happiness and live life.

 

This is true, but it is not enough to accept what we have done. We must also accept the things we could have done but didn't. I am not trying to convince you of anything but I read an article in the newspaper about a man who divorced his first wife but remained on good terms with her. When his second marriage was beginning to crumble he admitted that he wished he had tried a bit harder and been a bit nicer to his first wife.

 

I wish you all the best in whatever decision you make. i have not walked in your shoes so I don't knowwhat will make you truly happy.

 

Sylvia