My new reality after my affair ended

[Dylon]

What I don't get Jenkins and Dylon (and this is the 10 million dollar question), if you have all these emotions for someone, why not be with her? I just don't get it. Don't take this as an attack, obviously I don't know you IRL. But xMM said that same stuff, as if he was in a Chinese prison. I can't speak for him but you seem to have a ton of love for these women. But yet you stay with someone else, counting the days of NC, as if there is some award at the end. I just don't get it.[

 

Believe me, OW asked me this so many times. It's why she never gave up no matter what I said. To her, it makes no sense so soon or later, I will cave in? This is how I explained to her. Life isn't just about love and passion. You can only love if you can love yourself, accept yourself, and be well in other areas in life. Leaving the life you established, the promises you made, commitment, ect, is a huge task. I've told her that if I really do that, I won't be the person you love. I will be so broken of my own action you wouldn't want me seriously. In fact, you answered part of the questions too:

 

My H is not a consolation prize. He is 100% percent aware and made the choice to wait out my feelings for xMM believing it was all his fault and he wanted to stay married. So I'm here.

 

What a great man right? My wife is the same. She went through D-day and hell like you wouldn't believe multiple times. She changed. There's no way I can "choose" to escape loving such a person. Sure, we can go into what "love" is, but I can say I care so deeply that I will give me life for her. However, I can't escape loving someone else in another way and that is where I lost myself in the affair fog. It's true, some of us really do believe that there's no choice but to stay in a marriage. My xOW never bought it. She believed love conquers all. However, she never had to deal with what I did so I don't expect her to have the capacity to weigh in factors that affected my decision.

 

You are really prepared t feel like this for the rest of your life? Why? WHy not be with the person you love?

 

Yes, that was said to me from xOW many times. It's the trap we set ourselves in? We buy into the idea that we can't do this. It's not right. It's morally wrong. The more hurt you see from your own family, the more impossible it is to just pack up and leave. For me, I love my wife too so it's not like I thought of doing that anyway.

[Dylon]

On my kinder days, I do feel some compassion for my own xMM in that sense. He thought his marriage was totally dead. W didn't feel that way, and has done lots in the past year to improve herself and their relationship. So, now that things are better in a lot of ways, is he really supposed to up and leave, for the sake of "love," without giving it a fair shot? To tear apart a family, have his finances destroyed, for something that isn't even a sure bet? He loves his wife too, albeit in a different way, and the "magic" he feels with me would fade. Taking all of this into consideration, he is making the most rational choice.

 

Lemondrop, from an OW perspective, it's a very thoughtful post, understanding....compassionate.

[Ophelia25]

Believe me, OW asked me this so many times. It's why she never gave up no matter what I said. To her, it makes no sense so soon or later, I will cave in? This is how I explained to her. Life isn't just about love and passion. You can only love if you can love yourself, accept yourself, and be well in other areas in life. Leaving the life you established, the promises you made, commitment, ect, is a huge task. I've told her that if I really do that, I won't be the person you love. I will be so broken of my own action you wouldn't want me seriously. In fact, you answered part of the questions too:

 

 

 

What a great man right? My wife is the same. She went through D-day and hell like you wouldn't believe multiple times. She changed. There's no way I can "choose" to escape loving such a person. Sure, we can go into what "love" is, but I can say I care so deeply that I will give me life for her. However, I can't escape loving someone else in another way and that is where I lost myself in the affair fog. It's true, some of us really do believe that there's no choice but to stay in a marriage. My xOW never bought it. She believed love conquers all. However, she never had to deal with what I did so I don't expect her to have the capacity to weigh in factors that affected my decision.

 

 

 

Yes, that was said to me from xOW many times. It's the trap we set ourselves in? We buy into the idea that we can't do this. It's not right. It's morally wrong. The more hurt you see from your own family, the more impossible it is to just pack up and leave. For me, I love my wife too so it's not like I thought of doing that anyway.

 

I like this exchange. As the OW with no children and a husband who has permitted and encouraged the A, I have to work very hard to see things from the AP's perspective. Even with my freedom and "permission," if you can call it that, I have not been able to say with any kind of certainty that I would drop everything and ruin everyone to be with him. My H may get turned on by the A, but it's because he is sure that I wouldn't disappear on him. He does want to live with me and stay married to me. The AP has teenagers, and they are a fairly "normal" family, at least on the surface, with a host of supportive friends and family. I may be a strong attraction to him, but not only am I morally wrong, I would ruin nearly everything about his life as he knows it. He would lose friends, family, children, status, home, etc. It would be silly for me to even think I'm worth it, and the mere fact that he has considered it for such a long time is, well, flattering, really, though I guess it shouldn't be.

 

Love is rarely enough. The concept is beautiful, but so far from actual life.

[Forceawakensme]

Good posts by Dylon.

 

I never bought into the whole 'if he loves me he'd definitely leave for me; if he doesn't leave me for me, then he doesn't love me' assumption. That is just too black and white.

 

Obviously, its possible to love the OW and still not leave. Its possible to believe that an MM really wants to be with the OW but he simply will not nuke his family in the process. Yes, hes selfish for being in the affair and causing pain but if the BS wants to stay and work it out for the kids, i can believe he would also make that decision. It doesnt make everything that transpired in the affair null and void in the process.

 

That said, my xMM isn't relevant to my thoughts here as he is just profoundyl selfish -- but the above i think might apply to a lot of MMs who are torn.

[Babsinhealing]

Ok... Here is my official update. I'm sure a few of you are curious. This post is me being 100% raw and honest so please don't judge and try to be kind.

 

As most of you know, MM broke NC on day 32 by reaching out on Sunday evening ("can you text?" And when I didn't respond, He sent "so sorry we couldn't catch up. Let's talk soon"). I did NOT respond and slept on it... Still planned on not responding... but he stayed persistent the next day... "I'm worried- are you ok- you never not respond".

 

As I told many of you several weeks back- when I ended my A I didn't know the rules to NC- I wasn't on this forum and I didn't think to say the words- "don't contact me". I just assumed because I ended it and told him to work on fixing his marriage and I was moving on and we shared some kind goodbyes, it was OVER. I did count the days of NC because everyone kept saying that after 30 days of NC you start coming out of the fog. But it doesn't surprise me that he was "worried" when I didn't respond on Sunday as he obviously has no clue of the rules of NC (heck he doesn't even have FB).

 

My plan (this is where you cringe) was to call back and just say I'm fine and to try to kindly end it "again"- let me remind everyone (seeing there are so many A stories among us) that we had a wonderful "all in" A for almost 2 years- he was always good/kind to me, always prioritized me, never future faked, and I was the one that ended it after DD #2. I know some OW on this site see their xMM as complete *** but I just saw mine as a confused, lonely H that was in a "roommate" marriage that was looking for to fill the same exact void I had. But- as you can imagine, my "goodbye again" call didn't go as planned. I was quickly sucked back in the second I heard his voice. I have missed him so much that it was just so nice to catch up with him. The private jokes we always shared started and he seemed just as eager and excited to talk to me, which didn't help and I realized that I was totally kidding and lying to myself that I wanted this to end.

 

To be honest, and some may not understand this but I ended the A in hopes that HE would be strong and not look back so I could eventually move forward. I knew I could end it and stay strong in NC and not cave- I've never chased a man and wasn't starting now - so if he could just stay strong, I really thought my plan could work and my feelings for him would fade after time. I hoped deep down he was regretful and remorseful and would focus on fixing his 25 year marriage. This would give me the momentum to move forward and focus on my own healing and life without him. But I've discovered after talking to him that neither of us are remorseful, which I discovered is what it takes to move away from the A and work towards healing and/or reconciliation with BS/BH. Regret isn't enough- we both have that as we hurt and betrayed his W for almost 2 years. However, neither of us wanted it to end. It only ended because we got caught. And after our talk this week- we still both want it. I know I will get some angry responses saying we are selfish and why don't we just leave our marriages but that's crazy talk... It's not that simple and we all know it.

 

I know many of you are shaking your heads, probably completely disappointed in me. I know the risk of this A path and that it rarely leads to rainbows and sunsets. I know, I know, I know ...but like any addiction, you have to be willing to stop and make a change. I faked my own willingness and Im not in a place to end it on my own, go NC, permanately block him from my existence, and convince my heart, mind and soul it's finally over. I can't lie to myself and convince myself otherwise. No matter how much I try to tell myself it's for the best.

 

To the BS on this thread... I know this breaks your heart. So many of you supported me and I thank you. I'm sure it's completely deflating to your own healing that there are people out there like me willing to be so selfish at your expense. But through the eyes of the OW- be sure R is real. Be sure there is regret, REMORSE, and he is willing to give you everything you need to be safe in your M. So many will push the A underground for various reasons... Great sex (cake), emotional/physical needs not being met in the M, the decision to stay in the marriage is purely economical... We know the list. But I've seen "behind the scenes" first hand- they get smarter, more careful and if your "post affair" marriage still has voids, they will fill it.

 

I'm thinking of going off LS as I feel I let so many of you down. I don't dare ever come back crying again if things spiral down because I'm sure you are lining up to say "I told you so". But I really appreciate every single one of you and the support you gave me this past month. I hope you all find peace, happiness and love.... Soon. (Hugs)

[Dylon]

I know how difficult it is. It's true that your decision won't meet approval because most people are here to heal so this decision is delaying your healing, right? However, don't go away. We are still here for you. There will be another cycle of DD and each time, his wife will breakdown more and more, and that translate to many bad days for you and him. You have to decide whether you want to be around for a bigger roller coaster of emotion. This new refound connection will be harder than the previous time. There will be more push and pull. You said it has been great with the mm, but you haven't completed more cycles of the affair. I was once there and each time, it was harder. I was different because I never met the AP and it was an EA. Regardless, each time there was a DD, everything is more difficult. He will feel lose himself and you will too.

 

So your decision involve: you are happy enjoying the moment, manage to push aside the guilt, know that you have no control other than to leave, there will be another DD, and it will be harder and finally, it will end. Those are things that you can look forward to. Seeing how you write, it's hard for me to picture you can just let's "enjoy the moment" to mass all those knowledge.

 

Protect your hearth. I know many will welcome your posts if you need to talk.

[Foreverago]

Best of luck, OP. You know as well as any of us do, that you'll have to go through the pain once more when it ends again. No one here is disappointed in you. I personally just feel bad for you. I hope you have brighter days ahead.

[anika99]

Well that's a shame. Sounds like you've talked yourself into believing that you are helpless to end it because you couldn't stop missing him and feeling pain but it's only been a month. If somebody you loved died would you expect to be all over the grief and heartache in just 1 month?

 

 

You gave up to easily and too soon. What does feeling remorse have to do with anything. You ended the affair because of the way the MM was treating you after the almost dday. He pulled back and gave you less attention and made you feel like crap. Why do you have to feel remorse to decide you don't want to feel like crap anymore. I don't need to feel remorse to stop doing something that hurts me. Remorse might be necessary to fix your marriage but that's not why you ended it anyways so remorse shouldn't be a factor.

 

 

Everytime you go back into the affair the temporary relief you feel will make you feel weaker when it comes to ending it. Now that you have put yourself out of your misery you(temporarily) you are even more apt to believe that you have to have the MM in your life to function. You are making yourself weaker by going back now and you are crawling deeper into the pit. Your MM doesn't want to leave his marriage so he will have to be extra careful about how much contact he has with you. He will toss you aside whenever it becomes necessary to cover his ass and that's why you ended the affair in the first place and by going back both you and the MM are conditioning you to accept more and more deplorable behavior.

 

 

I think you know there is far more pain coming your way in the near future. I would suggest that you keep reading here even if you don't want to post because it's not like you're going to live happily ever after in this affair. At least when you had ended the affair there were no new hurts and you were on your way to getting better even if it didn't feel like it. Now you get to be hurt all over again. Better stick around cause you're going to need to support.

[heartwhole]

Even with your latest update, I do think you've made a lot of progress in self-awareness and beginning to address the issues that led you to the affair. Progress is often two steps forward and one step back; the important thing is whether you can see a forward trajectory or are simply stuck.

 

"I can't lie to myself and convince myself otherwise. No matter how much I try to tell myself it's for the best." FWIW, my WH's OW wrote this almost verbatim on her blog (yup, she has one of those too). She was discussing how she always follows her heart, no matter what her head tells her. It sounded like infantile rationalization coming from her. Coming from you, as someone I can see in more color and feel friendly towards, I can kind of get it. Hopefully you can come to a place that other OW are describing where your heart catches up with your head.

 

You warned us BWs to be careful in R, and I thank you for that. I also want to warn you that once there's been a DD, there's likely to be another. At first I felt like I was invading his privacy by checking up on him, but I sure don't feel that way now. Are you prepared for the fall-out if your husband finds out? (Am I right that BW knows but your husband doesn't?) Does part of you want him to find out so you can start to deal with your issues, or be forced to start over fresh? I do note that your focus is currently on your feelings about MM, and not on what you want in your life without him and your M. You absolutely need to deal with your feelings about the A, and once it's over there will be real grief to process, but if it's your only focus, then it continues to be a distraction from your "real" life.

 

I really wish you well, and I am not disappointed. It's your life and I can understand that you have real needs that aren't being met. But as you said, the risks are real and likelihood of a happy ending are slim, and frankly getting slimmer by reengaging even after a DD. I don't view your actions as selfish, just as foolish. I hope I don't sound insulting. I just mean that you actually are not acting in your own self-interest. You're acting against your own self-interest. So it's not really selfish. Short-sighted, yes. Confused, yes. But it's not a case of putting your own needs first. It's a case of not understanding how your choices are self-destructive and will likely result in your needs being met a lot less than they are even now. I hope I have not been too harsh. I just wish you well.

[ladydesigner]

I feel sorry for the BS as she has already experienced 2 Ddays and you both are going to take it underground again. Her WS is an a** I hope you wake up soon Babs I have a feeling you are going to be in for more of the same. You will have to go through the withdraw and everything you have already been going through all over again. It may even be worse the next time it ends.

 

Wash.rinse.repeat

 

Don't swear off LS though you may need it again. I really hope you change your mind or he gives you signs that he is EXACTLY the SAME so you can get back to your healing.

[Lovetoohard]

Babs, sometimes our hearts haven't quite caught up to our brains. Most people aren't here to admonish your choice. They've just lived it and learned from it and have the foresight to tell you what's down the road for you because they want to spare you the pain and destruction they went through. Sometimes the post-A pain you are experiencing in the moment is so hard to deal with, the only thing to make it go away is the very source of our pain. But that comes with a heavy price. At some point, you can't continue doing that and need more and more, just like a drug addict. It's human nature to want security, affection, love and stability in our lives. Quick hits of happiness are not sustainable long term. That said, only the people that can view a situation completely objectively can tell you that. I fell back into my affair a few months after we started because I simply wasn't ready to let go and my xMM wasn't some sex-crazed evil jerk. He has a lot of good qualities in him, but he's just lost and broken and not my problem to fix. It took enough pain to reach my threshold limit to finally say "I want out" AND believe what I said. That is something you have to get to on your own, notwithstanding the general consensus.

 

I wish you all the very best...

Edited April 6, 2016 by Lovetoohard

[Forceawakensme]

Ok... Here is my official update. I'm sure a few of you are curious. This post is me being 100% raw and honest so please don't judge and try to be kind.

 

As most of you know, MM broke NC on day 32 by reaching out on Sunday evening ("can you text?" And when I didn't respond, He sent "so sorry we couldn't catch up. Let's talk soon"). I did NOT respond and slept on it... Still planned on not responding... but he stayed persistent the next day... "I'm worried- are you ok- you never not respond".

 

As I told many of you several weeks back- when I ended my A I didn't know the rules to NC- I wasn't on this forum and I didn't think to say the words- "don't contact me". I just assumed because I ended it and told him to work on fixing his marriage and I was moving on and we shared some kind goodbyes, it was OVER. I did count the days of NC because everyone kept saying that after 30 days of NC you start coming out of the fog. But it doesn't surprise me that he was "worried" when I didn't respond on Sunday as he obviously has no clue of the rules of NC (heck he doesn't even have FB).

 

My plan (this is where you cringe) was to call back and just say I'm fine and to try to kindly end it "again"- let me remind everyone (seeing there are so many A stories among us) that we had a wonderful "all in" A for almost 2 years- he was always good/kind to me, always prioritized me, never future faked, and I was the one that ended it after DD #2. I know some OW on this site see their xMM as complete *** but I just saw mine as a confused, lonely H that was in a "roommate" marriage that was looking for to fill the same exact void I had. But- as you can imagine, my "goodbye again" call didn't go as planned. I was quickly sucked back in the second I heard his voice. I have missed him so much that it was just so nice to catch up with him. The private jokes we always shared started and he seemed just as eager and excited to talk to me, which didn't help and I realized that I was totally kidding and lying to myself that I wanted this to end.

 

To be honest, and some may not understand this but I ended the A in hopes that HE would be strong and not look back so I could eventually move forward. I knew I could end it and stay strong in NC and not cave- I've never chased a man and wasn't starting now - so if he could just stay strong, I really thought my plan could work and my feelings for him would fade after time. I hoped deep down he was regretful and remorseful and would focus on fixing his 25 year marriage. This would give me the momentum to move forward and focus on my own healing and life without him. But I've discovered after talking to him that neither of us are remorseful, which I discovered is what it takes to move away from the A and work towards healing and/or reconciliation with BS/BH. Regret isn't enough- we both have that as we hurt and betrayed his W for almost 2 years. However, neither of us wanted it to end. It only ended because we got caught. And after our talk this week- we still both want it. I know I will get some angry responses saying we are selfish and why don't we just leave our marriages but that's crazy talk... It's not that simple and we all know it.

 

I know many of you are shaking your heads, probably completely disappointed in me. I know the risk of this A path and that it rarely leads to rainbows and sunsets. I know, I know, I know ...but like any addiction, you have to be willing to stop and make a change. I faked my own willingness and Im not in a place to end it on my own, go NC, permanately block him from my existence, and convince my heart, mind and soul it's finally over. I can't lie to myself and convince myself otherwise. No matter how much I try to tell myself it's for the best.

 

To the BS on this thread... I know this breaks your heart. So many of you supported me and I thank you. I'm sure it's completely deflating to your own healing that there are people out there like me willing to be so selfish at your expense. But through the eyes of the OW- be sure R is real. Be sure there is regret, REMORSE, and he is willing to give you everything you need to be safe in your M. So many will push the A underground for various reasons... Great sex (cake), emotional/physical needs not being met in the M, the decision to stay in the marriage is purely economical... We know the list. But I've seen "behind the scenes" first hand- they get smarter, more careful and if your "post affair" marriage still has voids, they will fill it.

 

I'm thinking of going off LS as I feel I let so many of you down. I don't dare ever come back crying again if things spiral down because I'm sure you are lining up to say "I told you so". But I really appreciate every single one of you and the support you gave me this past month. I hope you all find peace, happiness and love.... Soon. (Hugs)

 

no judgement here, i hope so much you dont go off LS as i for one really benefit from this type of raw honesty -- Its not easy to admit things like you have -- thank you so much for sharing. Giant hugs.

[Adoraxx]

Dear Babs, no judgment from me either!! I hope you'll keep posting and I think you know that many of us have done the on/ off/ on / off thing. I have broken NC so many times that I've lost count, and I know how hard it is. Thanks for posting, sweetie. Sending you love and hugs!!!

[Grey Cloud]

No judgement from me either Babs just a hug. Only you know what feels right for you at this point in time. I do hope you stay on LS to keep us updated either way!

[privategal]

Babs,

We are all behind you.

If most of us were honest I think many of us have gone back and no one could reason with us we cant let go of something we deem so integral to our happiness and its also apparent it validates us and becomes apart of us.

Its easier to go back than face the hurt of severing it.

If you arent ready, you wont suceed.

You love him.

If we all bash you (which we WONT) you will still not run from him because you arent there. Its too hard.

It wont end until you truly want that so for now, be careful, take it easy, take your time, handle yourself with care.

If you need an LS break, take it, if you need to vent, we will listen.

I dont want you feeling judged, we get it, it kills your heart to let go and maybe one day it wont.

Only the two of you can decide, but if you are going to be in an A, know that it is supposed to be fun and happy and add to your life so at least make it joyful but do TRY to remember there is a risk of his W and her heart will break too, so dont be reckless, protect yourself until the day comes you want out and are reafy. I hope eventually it will be you to pull the plug and not him.

Though for me, it was better my xeap did that finally. It left me no choice or option and has forced me to greive it and let go.

Id have liked to be the one to have taken that step in hindsight.

Stay strong girlie.

[Babsinhealing]

Thank you all for your ongoing support! You are simply amazing and so many of you have helped me more than you ever know as I go thru this challenging time. I agree with Privategal- I'm hoping one day my heart will allow me to permanately let him go, but as I shared in my last post- I'm not there yet. As many of you know I've been on an antidepressant for a few weeks now- it's been a huge help. Even before my MM broke NC I was crying less and I felt emotions but with less profound sadness. I really see some improvement in getting my emotions in control/balance and I hope that gives me "better decision making power" in the future- both in my broken M and my A.

 

So yesterday I spent the afternoon with MM. We had "the talk" I've been wanting since I ended the A. Even though I ended it, I was so tormented thinking he could just easily move on and not look back and many of you reassured me (especially Dylon and Jenkins) that it's not like that. But to hear it from his own mouth was so comforting. He has struggled big time "in silence" (at least I have you, a gf, and my therapist to vent). Listening to him tell me what he's been going thru over the past month, being torn between me ending it and his hell situation at home was an eye opener, and I thought I was the only one in pain. I also found it interesting that he has the same triggers/reminders as me - music especially, movies, billboards, commercials, certain words... He said it's like I'm with him wherever he goes and I still spend a tremendous amount of time consuming his thoughts. He admitted he broke NC because he couldn't stand it anymore- he had to talk to/see me. Interestingly enough he knew it had been 32 days exactly... He was counting too.

 

His situation at home is "not great" (his words). He told me when I ended the A he was going to work on "fixing his marriage" but everything he shared with me yesterday told me he's not trying to fix it... He's trying to "behave" so it can go back to the way it was prior to DD (no hypervigilent surveillance, no daily emotional roller coaster discussions, no badgering him for more details, no turning the channel on the TV when there is a cheating comment or song because she makes nasty comments); he's obviously disillusioned and obviously not behaving because he spent the day with me. But he thinks if he does it long enough she will calm down and things will be more peaceful. He told me he's happy he got out of going to "the shrink" - so he has no plans of doing counseling- which means he has no plans of fixing the reasons he went out of his marriage to fulfill his needs. And that he's sticking to his plan- he will endure it until his daughter graduates (she's in high school- which is the same time his middle daughter graduates from college) which was always the plan for him, so not to disrupt their life.

 

Its so sad that he is living this lie - on one hand he feels terrible seeing his wife in the state she is and that he hurt her- but it's so obvious he is in fake reconciliation by not putting in the hard effort to truly reconcile (including ending it with me) so in reality her pain is just beginning. He thinks as time goes on she is seeing it (it's been 3 months since DD)... This was what he dealt with this month alone- She tells him he's just going thru the motions, if it were up to him he would prefer an open marriage, she fears he's still in A and endlessly asks him "you lied, betrayed and moved mountains to be with her for over a year (she doesn't know it's been 2) how can you so easily just walk away from her", She's angry with him because I'm attractive, fit, successful, younger, and she's "50, fat and frigid" (her words). He said if he pushes back at all (gets angry, or tells her he's done talking about the A for the day, or doesn't answer her questions) she freaks and starts yelling for hours. I can imagine he is going thru hell... Granted, so is she and with every right, but I think she knows deep down it's over and is just so angry at him for breaking their marriage (even though he didn't do it alone- she cut off intimacy years ago and they essentially co-parent as roommates).

 

I have no plans of fake futuring with him- we never did. I'm just taking it one day at a time. Who knows where this journey leads. I admit, I enjoyed my time with him yesterday as did he- I missed him so much and knowing that I'm not the only one that has struggled with this gave me peace of mind. We as the OW think they flip a switch and walk away like stone, but I learned they often struggle as much as we do. It may not be like that in all A (obviously) but when you spend years together like we did, loss is hard on everyone involved- and the the AP often grieves in silence. Here all along I was thinking he was happy, working on his marriage, reconciling, trying to "fix" things, was ok with our A ending- when all along we have ALL been in hell.

[solonely9]

Wish you all the best, Babs!

[ladydesigner]

Hi Babs I just want to wish you well. My last post was a little harsh, but I understand what you are feeling and it is VERY hard to let those feelings go. It's almost like someone has to be forced to end it for it to actually end.

 

However this turns out I do hope you are protecting yourself and continuing any therapy for yourself and keep posting of course!

[Babsinhealing]

Hi Babs I just want to wish you well. My last post was a little harsh, but I understand what you are feeling and it is VERY hard to let those feelings go. It's almost like someone has to be forced to end it for it to actually end.

 

However this turns out I do hope you are protecting yourself and continuing any therapy for yourself and keep posting of course!

Thank you, ladydesigner. No worries- I know you are just trying to prevent me from further hurt and I appreciate it! I am still in therapy and still working on myself. I have a lot of work to do and I know getting my depression in order will help me to be stronger. I don't have any expectations about my future with H or MM at this point because I'm just trying to get out of this dark place I've been in for far to long (even before A). Once again, I appreciate your kind post

[stilltrying16]

...

 

So yesterday I spent the afternoon with MM. We had "the talk" I've been wanting since I ended the A. Even though I ended it, I was so tormented thinking he could just easily move on and not look back and many of you reassured me (especially Dylon and Jenkins) that it's not like that. But to hear it from his own mouth was so comforting. He has struggled big time "in silence" (at least I have you, a gf, and my therapist to vent). Listening to him tell me what he's been going thru over the past month, being torn between me ending it and his hell situation at home was an eye opener, and I thought I was the only one in pain. I also found it interesting that he has the same triggers/reminders as me - music especially, movies, billboards, commercials, certain words... He said it's like I'm with him wherever he goes and I still spend a tremendous amount of time consuming his thoughts. He admitted he broke NC because he couldn't stand it anymore- he had to talk to/see me. Interestingly enough he knew it had been 32 days exactly... He was counting too.

 

His situation at home is "not great" (his words). He told me when I ended the A he was going to work on "fixing his marriage" but everything he shared with me yesterday told me he's not trying to fix it... He's trying to "behave" so it can go back to the way it was prior to DD (no hypervigilent surveillance, no daily emotional roller coaster discussions, no badgering him for more details, no turning the channel on the TV when there is a cheating comment or song because she makes nasty comments); he's obviously disillusioned and obviously not behaving because he spent the day with me. But he thinks if he does it long enough she will calm down and things will be more peaceful. He told me he's happy he got out of going to "the shrink" - so he has no plans of doing counseling- which means he has no plans of fixing the reasons he went out of his marriage to fulfill his needs. And that he's sticking to his plan- he will endure it until his daughter graduates (she's in high school- which is the same time his middle daughter graduates from college) which was always the plan for him, so not to disrupt their life.

 

Its so sad that he is living this lie - on one hand he feels terrible seeing his wife in the state she is and that he hurt her- but it's so obvious he is in fake reconciliation by not putting in the hard effort to truly reconcile (including ending it with me) so in reality her pain is just beginning. He thinks as time goes on she is seeing it (it's been 3 months since DD)... This was what he dealt with this month alone- She tells him he's just going thru the motions, if it were up to him he would prefer an open marriage, she fears he's still in A and endlessly asks him "you lied, betrayed and moved mountains to be with her for over a year (she doesn't know it's been 2) how can you so easily just walk away from her", She's angry with him because I'm attractive, fit, successful, younger, and she's "50, fat and frigid" (her words). He said if he pushes back at all (gets angry, or tells her he's done talking about the A for the day, or doesn't answer her questions) she freaks and starts yelling for hours. I can imagine he is going thru hell... Granted, so is she and with every right, but I think she knows deep down it's over and is just so angry at him for breaking their marriage (even though he didn't do it alone- she cut off intimacy years ago and they essentially co-parent as roommates).

.

 

This is my first post, so please forgive me if I say anything out of line. I'll be happy to edit it out. I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for sharing your story. Hearing from every perspective gives me a much more complex understanding of infidelity than I would have from my perspective alone and those of my female friends. Most of us have been BWS and it's taken me a while to see what OWs might be going through. In most of the stories I've read here, I feel sorry for the BW almost always, and for the OW most of the time. But my opinion of MM has been sinking lower and lower with every thread I read. This one plunged it right to the bottom and into the deeps. I'm trying hard to see anything that justifies the way he's behaving to his wife, and I can't.

 

I was shocked by his reaction as you describe it above(thank you for being so candid). So much so, that I registered today (after debating doing so for weeks) after reading the thread and decided I really wanted to comment. So far I have not seen a more cruel or more callous response on the part of an MM to the raw pain and distress that he caused.

 

If he is indeed "feeling terrible" he did this to her, then I don't think he'd be able to use demeaning descriptions such as his wife "badger[ing] him for details, embarking on "daily roller-coaster discussions" and inconveniencing him with her triggering (for example when infidelity crops up on TV). But he's going to "endure it" till she "calms down"? He makes her sound like an untamed wild beast. "Yelling" is an interesting choice of verbs as well....I wonder if all she was doing was crying.

 

Has he made any effort whatsoever to understand one thing from her point of view? Get even minimally educated on how it must feel to her? It really doesn't seem like it. If he read just a FEW accounts from a BS point of view, he might understand why she needs to know facts that have been deliberately and strategically kept from her for so long. Sadly, it is the response to a trauma, and she is dealing with it with no help whatsoever from anyone....least of all him.

 

Even if she did call herself "fat, fifty, and frigid," why did he feel a need to run off and whine about this- and to his OW of all people? He seems to lack all decency and all humanity. I gather he said the words were hers? TBH they sound like the kind of thing she might have heard him say or imply about her. I can't imagine what he's done to her soul and her spirit in all the years of his marriage. I'm curious why he despises her so much. Did she do anything vile to him? Was it just the fact that she brought up his children and has now outlived her usefulness that makes him despise her so much? I sincerely hope he undergoes the kind of trauma he has inflicted on her one day. And when he does, I hope he is met with the same mix of contempt and disgust that he shows toward her.

 

You show much more empathy for her than he does, and I appreciate that so much. I hope she gets out and away from his toxicity. I hope at the very least she has real life support or that she finds her way to this forum or one like it, so that she see how many women are in the same boat as her and get some hope that she will heal and go on to lead a happy fulfilling life- once she is away from his narcissism and toxicity. Best wishes to you as well.

Edited April 7, 2016 by stilltrying16

[Babsinhealing]

This is my first post, so please forgive me if I say anything out of line. I'll be happy to edit it out. I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for sharing your story. Hearing from every perspective gives me a much more complex understanding of infidelity than I would have from my perspective alone and those of my female friends. Most of us have been BWS and it's taken me a while to see what OWs might be going through. In most of the stories I've read here, I feel sorry for the BW almost always, and for the OW most of the time. But my opinion of MM has been sinking lower and lower with every thread I read. This one plunged it right to the bottom and into the deeps. I'm trying hard to see anything that justifies the way he's behaving to his wife, and I can't.

 

I was shocked by his reaction as you describe it above(thank you for being so candid). So much so, that I registered today (after debating doing so for weeks) after reading the thread and decided I really wanted to comment. So far I have not seen a more cruel or more callous response on the part of an MM to the raw pain and distress that he caused.

 

If he is indeed "feeling terrible" he did this to her, then I don't think he'd be able to use demeaning descriptions such as his wife "badger[ing] him for details, embarking on "daily roller-coaster discussions" and inconveniencing him with her triggering (for example when infidelity crops up on TV). But he's going to "endure it" till she "calms down"? He makes her sound like an untamed wild beast. "Yelling" is an interesting choice of verbs as well....I wonder if all she was doing was crying.

 

Has he made any effort whatsoever to understand one thing from her point of view? Get even minimally educated on how it must feel to her? It really doesn't seem like it. If he read just a FEW accounts from a BS point of view, he might understand why she needs to know facts that have been deliberately and strategically kept from her for so long. Sadly, it is the response to a trauma, and she is dealing with it with no help whatsoever from anyone....least of all him.

 

Even if she did call herself "fat, fifty, and frigid," why did he feel a need to run off and whine about this- and to his OW of all people? He seems to lack all decency and all humanity. I gather he said the words were hers? TBH they sound like the kind of thing she might have heard him say or imply about her. I can't imagine what he's done to her soul and her spirit in all the years of his marriage. I'm curious why he despises her so much. Did she do anything vile to him? Was it just the fact that she brought up his children and has now outlived her usefulness that makes him despise her so much? I sincerely hope he undergoes the kind of trauma he has inflicted on her one day. And when he does, I hope he is met with the same mix of contempt and disgust that he shows toward her.

 

You show much more empathy for her than he does, and I appreciate that so much. I hope she gets out and away from his toxicity. I hope at the very least she has real life support or that she finds her way to this forum or one like it, so that she see how many women are in the same boat as her and get some hope that she will heal and go on to lead a happy fulfilling life- once she is away from his narcissism and toxicity. Best wishes to you as well.

Stilltrying16- welcome to LS. Are you currently a BS? I have had several on my threads following my story. It's always nice to get their perspective. As the OW you really can't understand what they go thru as you are often dealing with your own emotional crisis- especially after DD. I get very mixed reviews from them- some are angry, some appreciative, some empathetic. It really depend on their situation. What I think they realize is not every OW is some uneducated skank, riddled with disease or out to ruin their life.

 

Your post obviously caused mixed feelings in me as I don't see my MM in that light. While I do feel awful for hurting his W, I know the journey he has had with her has been a challenge. He's been married for 25 years and for many of those years she cut him off sexually. He had to beg and felt unwanted for many years- not understanding why she didn't want him. She's very conservative and doesn't see sex as something important. So he was living numerous years in a sexless marriage -she changed the rules of their marriage and he grew resentful. His response to her now is just pent up resentment. So I know it seems like he's an evil narcissist but I can relate to him exactly because I too am in a sexless marriage. However, you have the right to your opinion and I'm sure from an outsider it seems cruel. I respect any and all comments!

[Dancewithme]

Op, I cannot imagine what you are feeling in all of this, you must be torn in all kinds of ways to want to continue your relationship with this man. Your honesty here is commendable.

 

Gently, I ask: have you really listened to what your MM is describing that his wife is going through? He sounds like a callous, heartless, selfish cad who has no remorse at all for what he has put his wife through. Her pain is inconveniencing him, and he wants her to just stop it. He is faking reconciliation to get her off his back. Cruel beyond measure!

 

Do his words about his BW have any affect on you regarding your feelings for him? How can someone who can be so cruel and condescending be alluring in anyway? I just don't understand...

 

I hope you continue to work towards your own healing.

[Babsinhealing]

Dancewithme- thank you for your post... I just answered that so hopefully that clears things up a little. I appreciate your encouragement.

[stilltrying16]

Stilltrying16- welcome to LS. Are you currently a BS? I have had several on my threads following my story. It's always nice to get their perspective. As the OW you really can't understand what they go thru as you are often dealing with your own emotional crisis- especially after DD. I get very mixed reviews from them- some are angry, some appreciative, some empathetic. It really depend on their situation. What I think they realize is not every OW is some uneducated skank, riddled with disease or out to ruin their life.

 

Your post obviously caused mixed feelings in me as I don't see my MM in that light. While I do feel awful for hurting his W, I know the journey he has had with her has been a challenge. He's been married for 25 years and for many of those years she cut him off sexually. He had to beg and felt unwanted for many years- not understanding why she didn't want him. She's very conservative and doesn't see sex as something important. So he was living numerous years in a sexless marriage -she changed the rules of their marriage and he grew resentful. His response to her now is just pent up resentment. So I know it seems like he's an evil narcissist but I can relate to him exactly because I too am in a sexless marriage. However, you have the right to your opinion and I'm sure from an outsider it seems cruel. I respect any and all comments!

 

Thank you so much for the welcome. You seem like such a kind and caring person. I was a BS many many years ago...I'm old!..old enough to think that life begins at 50 In retrospect I came out of it very well and am now in a happy relationship. But I feel a lot of compassion for my younger self when I look back to the past. The thing is I always felt ashamed and inadequate because of the way that relationship went, and though I knew intellectually that he was the one to blame, I always internalized it. It screwed me up for so long....it's only when I got older that that feeling vanished (poooof) & I recognized I didn't deserve what he did to me. But thought it was a long time ago, it hurt and it changed me I still want to understand this whole business of infidelity- if there had been sites like this at the time, they would have helped so much and I would have been less screwed up and broken. it's a more distant, almost academic, curiosity now. Then 7-8 years later a very dear friend of mine went through a 3 year on- again-off again relationship as an OW. We talked a lot during those days. We still do, but it was several afternoons a week then. I mostly just listened and tried to be there for her. I knew she was NOT an evil person, not lacking in empathy, always very caring and very generous, but she couldn't see things from the BS's POV, whereas I could. I felt bad for both of the women. The guy on the other hand was a POS in my view...dog vomit actually. He didn't care how many hearts he broke. I also have a couple of close friends who've been BWs.

 

As an internet stranger, I obviously miss many many important things about your relationship. I was reacting just to the words and images he used...they just seemed so dehumanizing and so hurtful. So that is what I was trying to understand, and I couldn't see any evidence that he did feel terribly about her. And from your posts you never seemed to be that way...to lack compassion. So I did go ahead and post (after debating whether I should). I'm so sorry that what I said about him hurt you or led to mixed feelings. For you I have only good wishes!

 

Sexless relationships-I know first-hand how those go. BTDT for way too long myself in another relationship! I did get out of that eventually. I think it would be awful to be rejected continually- in that relationship I just gave up asking. But I never lost respect for my partner and I never felt the need to demean him. I saw a ton of good things in him or I would have ended it faster than I did. As for religion and conservatism....I'm not that way either. I've never been in a relationship where we differed on ideology and religion...and I have to tell you I would walk if anyone pulled religiosity on me. But that's the thing, I would walk....I would get out...if the terms of the marriage had changed or we had grown apart in our beliefs or if my sexual needs were not being satisfied, I would divorce/separate, and then go right ahead and find someone I cared for. Or if it wasn't a deal breaker but still unwelcome, I would stay as long as I had respect and affection for that person. You mentioned that you too are in a sexless marriage, and you have stayed, but you don't speak contemptuously or hatefully of your partner. MM does. I don't see any excuse for staying and generating bitterness and contempt for one's partner. I just don't. I cringe the most when I see people disrespecting other people. I hate the fact that we can be ruder, more hostile, more hateful to someone we care for (or at least cared for at one point) than we are to perfect strangers. It's the disrespect and the dehumanizing that get me every single time.

 

I'm sorry to go on so long. I can see from your thread how difficult it must have been for you, and I am so sorry. I truly send you my very best wishes, and if you will accept ivirtual hugs from strangers, I also send you (((((((((((BabsinHealing)))))))))

Edited April 8, 2016 by stilltrying16

[stilltrying16]

Just one last thing, Babs. I am trying to figure out why this particular reaction from the MM upset crossed a line for me. I think it's because in the parts you quoted, he is sneering and lashing out at her by bringing up not her conservatism, not her dislike of sex, but because she is traumatized. She's triggering, crying, asking for details. He's sneering and royally pissed off that she feels this way. And *he* caused the trauma! It's still unbelievable to me.

 

And also, the "sexless marriage" line is one that so many WH go to instinctively and I was sceptical. But of course I can't know for sure, and obviously you would.

 

Anyway, don't want to go on and on. I hope very much that things work out in the way that's best for you and BH.