Author Babsinhealing Posted April 8, 2016 Author Share Posted April 8, 2016 Thank you so much for the welcome. You seem like such a kind and caring person. I was a BS many many years ago...I'm old!..old enough to think that life begins at 50 In retrospect I came out of it very well and am now in a happy relationship. But I feel a lot of compassion for my younger self when I look back to the past. The thing is I always felt ashamed and inadequate because of the way that relationship went, and though I knew intellectually that he was the one to blame, I always internalized it. It screwed me up for so long....it's only when I got older that that feeling vanished (poooof) & I recognized I didn't deserve what he did to me. But thought it was a long time ago, it hurt and it changed me I still want to understand this whole business of infidelity- if there had been sites like this at the time, they would have helped so much and I would have been less screwed up and broken. it's a more distant, almost academic, curiosity now. Then 7-8 years later a very dear friend of mine went through a 3 year on- again-off again relationship as an OW. We talked a lot during those days. We still do, but it was several afternoons a week then. I mostly just listened and tried to be there for her. I knew she was NOT an evil person, not lacking in empathy, always very caring and very generous, but she couldn't see things from the BS's POV, whereas I could. I felt bad for both of the women. The guy on the other hand was a POS in my view...dog vomit actually. He didn't care how many hearts he broke. I also have a couple of close friends who've been BWs. As an internet stranger, I obviously miss many many important things about your relationship. I was reacting just to the words and images he used...they just seemed so dehumanizing and so hurtful. So that is what I was trying to understand, and I couldn't see any evidence that he did feel terribly about her. And from your posts you never seemed to be that way...to lack compassion. So I did go ahead and post (after debating whether I should). I'm so sorry that what I said about him hurt you or led to mixed feelings. For you I have only good wishes! Sexless relationships-I know first-hand how those go. BTDT for way too long myself in another relationship! I did get out of that eventually. I think it would be awful to be rejected continually- in that relationship I just gave up asking. But I never lost respect for my partner and I never felt the need to demean him. I saw a ton of good things in him or I would have ended it faster than I did. As for religion and conservatism....I'm not that way either. I've never been in a relationship where we differed on ideology and religion...and I have to tell you I would walk if anyone pulled religiosity on me. But that's the thing, I would walk....I would get out...if the terms of the marriage had changed or we had grown apart in our beliefs or if my sexual needs were not being satisfied, I would divorce/separate, and then go right ahead and find someone I cared for. Or if it wasn't a deal breaker but still unwelcome, I would stay as long as I had respect and affection for that person. You mentioned that you too are in a sexless marriage, and you have stayed, but you don't speak contemptuously or hatefully of your partner. MM does. I don't see any excuse for staying and generating bitterness and contempt for one's partner. I just don't. I cringe the most when I see people disrespecting other people. I hate the fact that we can be ruder, more hostile, more hateful to someone we care for (or at least cared for at one point) than we are to perfect strangers. It's the disrespect and the dehumanizing that get me every single time. I'm sorry to go on so long. I can see from your thread how difficult it must have been for you, and I am so sorry. I truly send you my very best wishes, and if you will accept ivirtual hugs from strangers, I also send you (((((((((((BabsinHealing))))))))) Thanks stilltrying16- I can certainly see why my post caused this reaction in you. Sounds like you've had some trying/difficult times in the past and you are just expressing your opinion as how you see it as an outsider. I respect that and by the way- I'm not very young either and my AP is 50 so we aren't kids! I will never say my AP is going about this correctly- he is seriously struggling and making mistakes along the way, as am I (neither of us have ever had an A). He does share everything with me but I think it's because I'm the only one he can talk to about this- he's honest and while he's the one to blame for this A, she's not an innocent victim in the breakdown of their marriage- although, I know that many will side with her and that's ok. I know you expressed that you would never lose respect if you were in a sexless marriage but through my research (as I certainly have done enough reading about this) that men see sex and intimacy different than woman, especially in woman that they love. It's their way of communicating love and showing they care- where they don't often verbalize emotions and feelings -sex makes them feel closer to their partners and that is how they gain a true emotional connection. Knowing this- when a man gets rejected by his wife for years, loses his self esteem and self respect and sex is deprioritized in the marriage, a gap forms in that emotional connection until there is a valley and I truly think that is why my AP feels the way he does. I've been with him many many times when he's been on the phone with her and he's never treated her disrespectful, raised his voice or insulted her (I would never be with a man that was verbally or physically abusive)- they just treat each other like siblings or roommates and their conversations were always "flat" and based on the kids. It's hard not defend him- I'm sure you can see my point of view and im sure you will continue to keep yours, which is absolutely fine! but he's just in a difficult situation (that he put himself in) and I believe all her comments above are based on the fact that she knows there is a serious problem/defect now with their emotional and physical connection, enough for him to go out of his marriage and have a long term affair - and while for years she was fine with it, she's realizing its truly broke and she's not sure if it's too late, so her comments are testing him. I'm sure she's scared and worried sick, especially if she's done any research on fake reconciliation. So anyways- I know skepticism will always be an issue on these sites and no one really knows the true dynamics of the A we post about, so all I can say is, this is my life and he's in it and while we aren't proud at what we've done and everything is clear as mud, hopefully one day we can find some inner peace and look back and say.... Ahhhh, that's why that happened. Thanks again for your best wishes! Link to post Share on other sites
stilltrying16 Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 What a very nice post- thank you so much, Babs. I do take your point about men and women responding differently to sexlessness! And I completely agree that no outsider (and esp one on the internets) could possibly know the complexities of a RL relationship. Once again, what comes through in your post is empathy and kindness- toward her, toward him, and toward me (to whom you don't owe anything at all!). Also wanted to say how refreshing the tone is here on this site- generally supportive, thoughtful and warm. I haven't been reading that long, but I like what I see so far. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
heartwhole Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Just one last thing, Babs. I am trying to figure out why this particular reaction from the MM upset crossed a line for me. I think it's because in the parts you quoted, he is sneering and lashing out at her by bringing up not her conservatism, not her dislike of sex, but because she is traumatized. She's triggering, crying, asking for details. He's sneering and royally pissed off that she feels this way. And *he* caused the trauma! It's still unbelievable to me. And also, the "sexless marriage" line is one that so many WH go to instinctively and I was sceptical. But of course I can't know for sure, and obviously you would. Anyway, don't want to go on and on. I hope very much that things work out in the way that's best for you and BH. It sounds like this MM really has a plan to leave some day, but most do not. They are in the affairs because they don't want to get divorced. They stay with their wives because they don't want to get divorced. But that's not the same as wanting to do the work to have a healthy marriage and be a healthy person yourself. My WH reacted without empathy or perspective after DD as well. He exploded with a list of grievances (I don't walk places with him due to my fainting problem, I once discouraged him from opening a bookstore when we were young and poor) on DD that he felt justified the affair. Then after he went NC with the OW he complained to me about how hard it was to give up someone he had grown close to. He was focused on his own pain, not mine. He seemed to think, "Hey, I'm here, aren't I? So what are you so upset about? Remember, I wouldn't have had an affair if you'd been a better wife!" With time, counseling, and constant push back from me, he's come to realize that his actions were not justified, that I have been truly traumatized, and that he needs to work to develop the empathy that he naturally lacks due to his self-absorption. But he was not there after DD. He wanted to stay married. He wanted it to be a good marriage. But he was a long way away from realizing what the choice to have an affair said about him, about his entitlement and poor coping skills and deflection of blame and personal responsibility. Sure, there were issues that could be improved in our marriage, but a mature adult negotiates their needs and advocates for themselves while also being supportive of their partner. I would always have conversations with myself about my needs and hurts, and I would either deal with them myself or share them and look for resolution if they were beyond a simple pep-talk. I did not hold onto them unhealthily as I came to find out my husband did, and I certainly didn't use them to justify acting in ways that I believe are wrong. If a BW is at all scared of being on her own or struggling with any self-esteem issues already, then how is it going to play out? As Babs describes, I'm afraid. The emotional histrionics of a traumatized partner are anathema to the self-absorbed MM who hates conflict and believes that his partner should be magically unscathed from the infidelity as compensation for having faults that made the marriage less than perfect. He still believes he was justified in his actions, so he somehow believes his actions are not hurtful. Or perhaps, he simply no longer cares if the BW is hurt or not. It's very sad. The author of Not Just Friends says that the wayward spouse often believes he is not getting enough from the marriage, when in fact he is not giving enough to the marriage. If he were to invest all the energy and time that he's putting into the affair into his marriage, then he may find that his wife is not as cranky and awful as he first thought. The negativity is a vicious cycle. What it really comes down to is whether or not the faults and failings of other people justify our treating them less well. It's simply not fair to this BW to string her along in a sham marriage and false reconciliation. This is her one and only life. She deserves a husband who is honest. Since she can't meet his needs, she should be given the opportunity to make an informed decision about her life. Exposing betrayed spouses sexually without their consent, stringing them along when you plan to leave them later . . . these are all violation's of a person's bodily and emotional autonomy. These are just my thoughts on it. Like you, I'm clearly colored by my own experience. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Babsinhealing Posted April 8, 2016 Author Share Posted April 8, 2016 I hear you loud and clear, Heartwhole! I'm aware I get one side of the story and of course my loyalties lie with him. I'm not naive to think he's innocent in any of this and that he could of done a better job handling this situation. I told him he's going to hurt his W even more when his daughter graduates and he tells her it's done ... But he thinks this is the best and only way to keep his daughters life intact so she can focus on school, sports and being a teenager. Plus he has two in college so his situation is quite complicated. I know, I know... He signed up for this and knew what he was doing. But I don't think anyone ever thinks you are going to get caught and the fact it lasted so long before we did get caught, we got closer and closer as the months passed. You never look for or expect to find yourself loving someone else, especially when you are married but life happens. He has to make decisions that he feels are right for him and his family, just like me. Time will tell whether or not the decisions we make hurt us, heal us, end us, or draw us closer. As always, I appreciate your insight and posts! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 I usually don't weigh in on threads like this.... but the hole in this guy's story is just so absurd. He's worried about what the kids think of him while they're in high school, about them being "normal teenagers", but once they've graduated, he's suddenly going to STOP caring about his future relationship with them?... not at all worried that they're going to side with their mother and hate his guts for being a liar and a cad? Not likely. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Babsinhealing Posted April 8, 2016 Author Share Posted April 8, 2016 Well aren't you lucky that it's not your problem, ladyjane! I don't pass judgement on anyone- everyone has their own crisis, vice, life challenges so maybe you should consider staying away from threads like these if you can't show some empathy and support people who are struggling. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Cymbeline Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 I agree the BW is showing very typical trauma issues, compounded by her husband's lack of humanity towards her. The children will not be less upset by this in a couple of years and then may well be of an age when they exert some serious counter weight to the WH decision. It is hard to lose the respect of young adult children. This is going to be tough on everyone if or when it comes to pass. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 I usually don't weigh in on threads like this.... but the hole in this guy's story is just so absurd. He's worried about what the kids think of him while they're in high school, about them being "normal teenagers", but once they've graduated, he's suddenly going to STOP caring about his future relationship with them?... not at all worried that they're going to side with their mother and hate his guts for being a liar and a cad? Not likely. I don't know if it's holes in his story or not but he should expect at least for the kids to be disappointed in him. Babs do the kids already know about the A? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Babsinhealing Posted April 8, 2016 Author Share Posted April 8, 2016 Noooo- they decided to not tell them although the youngest (16 years old) feels something is wrong. It's never easy when there are kids involved- regardless of the age. I just think he thinks it will be easier for his youngest to accept if she's away at college. He knows his girls would be very disappointed in him if they found out- he's a wonderful, caring, supportive father and they would never expect it from him. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
LivingWaterPlease Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Noooo- they decided to not tell them although the youngest (16 years old) feels something is wrong. It's never easy when there are kids involved- regardless of the age. I just think he thinks it will be easier for his youngest to accept if she's away at college. He knows his girls would be very disappointed in him if they found out- he's a wonderful, caring, supportive father and they would never expect it from him. I'd just written a post saying the kids will probably figure out he's having an A sooner or later but deleted as I felt it would add nothing but conjecture to the thread. As you mentioned, though, the 16-year-old feels something is wrong at this point. A good friend of mine's H stayed in their M until the kids were out of college, then left her for his AP. There are several children and they all cut ties with him. However, he was a bear to live with (had been pretty rough on the kids in ways) and I do believe he's much more well-matched with his AP (now his wife). Link to post Share on other sites
Author Babsinhealing Posted April 8, 2016 Author Share Posted April 8, 2016 I'd just written a post saying the kids will probably figure out he's having an A sooner or later but deleted as I felt it would add nothing but conjecture to the thread. As you mentioned, though, the 16-year-old feels something is wrong at this point. A good friend of mine's H stayed in their M until the kids were out of college, then left her for his AP. There are several children and they all cut ties with him. However, he was a bear to live with (had been pretty rough on the kids in ways) and I do believe he's much more well-matched with his AP (now his wife). If he does actually leave when the time comes, it would not be for me- and if I'm still in the picture and he would rather be with me, I would insist we live seperately until a certain amount of time passes. But that is future thinking and I am just trying to get thru today!! So much could happen between then and now- I can't even begin to waste my time speculating. Link to post Share on other sites
Civil Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Sad. Disheartening. Having pivoted from warning others of the dangers of betrayal, to very consciously choosing that path, OP is hurting herself, first and foremost. How does loyalty to this man not lead to massive cognitive dissonance? In repeating his responses to the trauma his A has inflicted on his betrayed spouse, OP creates a detailed portrait of entitlement, blame-shifting and empathy deficit. A badly disordered character. Who deserves sympathy because he's in hell just doing what's right for his family? No. No. There's just no rational way to cast this as a father doing what's right for his family or to imagine that this is not a cruel choice. There's not much debate about the fact that there are many ways to handle the pain of a sexless or otherwise broken marriage without resorting to the traumatizing betrayal of one's spouse and children. But somehow a notion has taken hold that it's better to inflict the damage on the children after they're older. When they can fully understand their father's disordered character. the extent of his cruelty and the degree to which their most intimate family life was a pathetic lie? We didn't discover my FIL's infidelity until we had kids of our own, but decades on, the idea that this man was his father still nauseates my H. We have very few regrets, but a big one is that by the time we discovered what his father had done to his mother, it was too late to support her. Too late to understand why her behavior had become horribly broken over the years. Not too late, however, to cut his father out of all our lives. It was done at great cost, but the value of that has been proven, repeatedly. Another thread reminded me of the importance secondary cognitive appraisal. Worth looking into. Because life is long, and regret endures. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Dancewithme Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 This thread is weighing on my heart, Babs, because you sound like a nice, sensitive, caring person. Honestly, you do. On the other side of this story is another human being who sounds traumatized, with more trauma to come. And in the middle is a man who appears to be all about what he wants, loved ones be damned. What I can't reconcile is how you are attracted to a man who feels justified to treat his spouse, and family this way. Do you feel like a contributor to her pain, and the future pain of his family? If so, how do you deal with it? No judgement; like I said in my last post, I just don't understand. Of course, it's not my life, and not for me to understand. What's in it for you? 6 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Babsinhealing Posted April 8, 2016 Author Share Posted April 8, 2016 Sad. Disheartening. Having pivoted from warning others of the dangers of betrayal, to very consciously choosing that path, OP is hurting herself, first and foremost. How does loyalty to this man not lead to massive cognitive dissonance? In repeating his responses to the trauma his A has inflicted on his betrayed spouse, OP creates a detailed portrait of entitlement, blame-shifting and empathy deficit. A badly disordered character. Who deserves sympathy because he's in hell just doing what's right for his family? No. No. There's just no rational way to cast this as a father doing what's right for his family or to imagine that this is not a cruel choice. There's not much debate about the fact that there are many ways to handle the pain of a sexless or otherwise broken marriage without resorting to the traumatizing betrayal of one's spouse and children. But somehow a notion has taken hold that it's better to inflict the damage on the children after they're older. When they can fully understand their father's disordered character. the extent of his cruelty and the degree to which their most intimate family life was a pathetic lie? We didn't discover my FIL's infidelity until we had kids of our own, but decades on, the idea that this man was his father still nauseates my H. We have very few regrets, but a big one is that by the time we discovered what his father had done to his mother, it was too late to support her. Too late to understand why her behavior had become horribly broken over the years. Not too late, however, to cut his father out of all our lives. It was done at great cost, but the value of that has been proven, repeatedly. Another thread reminded me of the importance secondary cognitive appraisal. Worth looking into. Because life is long, and regret endures. He cut his father out of his life because he made a bad decision to cheat? Yikes... Must be great that your H is so perfect and never made a mistake. I find that more of broken situation than mine. I lost my father tragically when I was 17 and the fact I hear of people disowning their parents because they made a decision they didn't agree with, makes me shake my head. I get the impression you are not a OW, BS or ever personally dealt with infidelity in your marriage so it's easy to cast stones. You don't agree nor do you get it, I get it. For some it's appalling and for others unspeakable but until you walk in the shoes of an OW or BS, you really can't empathize or truly understand the complexities. My apologies if you are one of those and by all means, I will consider your words and opinions, but if you are not, kindly let me live with my "regrets" and stop insulting and calling people you don't know "cruel and disordered". 1 Link to post Share on other sites
LivingWaterPlease Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 He cut his father out of his life because he made a bad decision to cheat? Yikes... QUOTE] I agree with this. The example I cited of my friend's children cutting their dad out involved a whole lot more than his cheating, though it made the cut easier, it seems. I'm so thankful for the many loved ones of mine who haven't cut me out when I've made poor decisions. By the same token, it means a lot to me to stick with friends and family who've make mistakes. Who among us hasn't? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Babsinhealing Posted April 8, 2016 Author Share Posted April 8, 2016 This thread is weighing on my heart, Babs, because you sound like a nice, sensitive, caring person. Honestly, you do. On the other side of this story is another human being who sounds traumatized, with more trauma to come. And in the middle is a man who appears to be all about what he wants, loved ones be damned. What I can't reconcile is how you are attracted to a man who feels justified to treat his spouse, and family this way. Do you feel like a contributor to her pain, and the future pain of his family? If so, how do you deal with it? No judgement; like I said in my last post, I just don't understand. Of course, it's not my life, and not for me to understand. What's in it for you? Dancewithme- it's so easy to blame and beat up on the MM... That's what these forums do. Many bring their own experiences with their MM into their opinions and assume every MM that is cheating is a cold hearted *** and hes only out for himself. It's almost discriminate because guess what... I'm cheating too! He's technically my OM so why aren't people supporting him and coming down on me. Because you've read my posts and you see I'm kind, sweet, caring and sensitive. But guess what... So is he. I'm not a terrible person because I decided to cheat- do I have issues, yes and I own them. Does he have issues, yes and he's trying to do what's best to fix his mess without destroying his family. People make mistakes, they cheat, they have voids, they are lonely and they are trying to grasp at anything that gives them happiness in this life that constantly brings us to our knees. So why is it that he is any different... Because he's a man and apparently their decision to cheat automatically makes him a cruel, disordered monster. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Dancewithme- it's so easy to blame and beat up on the MM... That's what these forums do. Many bring their own experiences with their MM into their opinions and assume every MM that is cheating is a cold hearted *** and hes only out for himself. It's almost discriminate because guess what... I'm cheating too! He's technically my OM so why aren't people supporting him and coming down on me. Because you've read my posts and you see I'm kind, sweet, caring and sensitive. But guess what... So is he. I'm not a terrible person because I decided to cheat- do I have issues, yes and I own them. Does he have issues, yes and he's trying to do what's best to fix his mess without destroying his family. People make mistakes, they cheat, they have voids, they are lonely and they are trying to grasp at anything that gives them happiness in this life that constantly brings us to our knees. So why is it that he is any different... Because he's a man and apparently their decision to cheat automatically makes him a cruel, disordered monster. I don't think the decision to cheat makes a person a monster. The decision to continue to cheat while letting the (BS) think they are in R is what makes a person cruel. Maybe that is what some of the posters may be referring to. It would be better for your MM to end the M if he is that unhappy, what he is doing is playing the waiting game, waiting to see if the A is better than the M or if the M is recovering enough to continue the M, or maybe cake eating who knows. Neither relationship can get better by keeping both. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Babsinhealing Posted April 8, 2016 Author Share Posted April 8, 2016 I don't think the decision to cheat makes a person a monster. The decision to continue to cheat while letting the (BS) think they are in R is what makes a person cruel. Maybe that is what some of the posters may be referring to. It would be better for your MM to end the M if he is that unhappy, what he is doing is playing the waiting game, waiting to see if the A is better than the M or if the M is recovering enough to continue the M, or maybe cake eating who knows. Neither relationship can get better by keeping both. Again, it's right back to the MM and why he's cruel. I'm actually worse by betraying and lying to my innocent H in my marriage. I struggle with this everyday but I'm just as bad, if not worse. I just wish people would see that it's not ALL the MM- an A takes two and they are both equally deceptive in their M. It's so easy to say what people "should do" in these situations but everyone owns their own life. Sorry- I guess I've just reached the MM bash limit today - 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted April 8, 2016 Share Posted April 8, 2016 Again, it's right back to the MM and why he's cruel. I'm actually worse by betraying and lying to my innocent H in my marriage. I struggle with this everyday but I'm just as bad, if not worse. I just wish people would see that it's not ALL the MM- an A takes two and they are both equally deceptive in their M. It's so easy to say what people "should do" in these situations but everyone owns their own life. Sorry- I guess I've just reached the MM bash limit today - I'm sorry Babs was trying to offer a different perspective. Why would you be worse? I don't think so. I will bow out of your thread Babs am sorry to cause you upset. Link to post Share on other sites
stilltrying16 Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 Babs, I am so sorry. I echo what ladydesigner said. This is your thread. If there's any issue on which discussion is no longer helpful and you want to take it off the table, I totally respect that. I would probably have felt the same way! In my earlier posts on your thread, I persisted past the point I should have and I sincerely apologize for that. Did you want to shift focus to other things? What would be helpful in terms of responses to your thread? Link to post Share on other sites
Civil Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 (edited) He cut his father out of his life because he made a bad decision to cheat? Yikes... QUOTE] I agree with this. The example I cited of my friend's children cutting their dad out involved a whole lot more than his cheating, though it made the cut easier, it seems. I'm so thankful for the many loved ones of mine who haven't cut me out when I've made poor decisions. By the same token, it means a lot to me to stick with friends and family who've make mistakes. Who among us hasn't? I apologize and will bow out, but I honestly think that foresight is critical and that you, who were so clear in your goals, are setting yourself up for real pain. Cutting off a parent may sound radical, but it's not so uncommon and these are not the garden variety "mistakes" that everyone makes. In the presence of damaging, ongoing behaviors, separation is absolutely supported by MH professionals. As in our case. Not that we got off scot-free. Our extended family is on to the fifth generation to be affected by infidelity. The fallout for all of the kids has been heartbreaking, no matter their ages. So yes, my empathy has to begin with the kids. It doesn't end there, however, and based on your original intent, I do think you deserve far better. Edited April 9, 2016 by Civil 3 Link to post Share on other sites
ShatteredLady Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 I've heard many WMM on forums talk about how they were shocked by the utter devastation that D-days & (even worse) false recoveries have on the BS. I never imagined the uncontrollable physical response. I don't think extreme reactions by older children are just judgments of the affair. It's watching their mother try so hard to keep it together for the family when she's clearly so distressed. Very often they feel protective of their mothers. Affairs are generally unimaginably painful for everyone involved (to say the least). NC is generally considered the best 'solution' for the OW so I find it understandable that MM seem unfairly bashed. Convincing yourself that he's the 'bad guy' makes NC slightly more manageable. (& then there are the very 'bad guys out there!) Of course we read the heart wrenching accounts from MM here (Jenkins being a good example) & people are compassionate but telling an exOW who's desperately trying to breakaway "he's probably in agony" isn't going to help her as much as calling him a bumhole! All I know, suffering my own trauma, is support is invaluable. If you are upset by any posts please try to ignore them & keep sharing, keep posting. Affairs are often so isolating it's agony. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Grey Cloud Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 Babs - I commend you for updating your thread with what has happened and being honest. I think we all understand that affairs and NC are not black and white. I am sure there are many others in similar situations who are not posting. Everyone is all for complete NC and in some cases that is the only path to take whereas others may not have reached that breaking point as yet. A's are complicated, messy and wrong. And generally end in heartache. They are also full of emotion and it's very hard to know the right path for every individual unless you are in their shoes. Keep posting and thank you for your honesty. 7 Link to post Share on other sites
Cymbeline Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 (edited) MAs a mother of daughters, I expressed my concern (for all of you) because, as others have said, this kind of deceit traumatises even adult children both for themselves aand, very strongly, on their mother's behalf. People in love usually tell themselves that given time their children will be ok with it and pleased they are happy, but this isn't how it actually plays out in families. The dynamics are very sensitive. Even at this moment, not knowing why, The children will see their mother running around, trying to please her husband while he behaves resentfully and selfishly towards her. When they find out why, they will feel furious and betrayed. It might help your OM to do some reading on the long term effects of his current plans are likely to be on his children - daughters especially - and their future relationships. I am sorry you have to be on anti depressants. If his wife is not, she probably should be and, eventually so might his children. I'm not being dramatic - i have experience of exactly this - the Ow needed to consult a psychiatrist and have counselling and medication as did one of the daughters. The daughters are affected by the fact that their father is not the man they believed him to be. It bursts their sense of security and identity. The bw (me) Was on Ssri s and received extensive counselling and another younger daughter, still ignorant of the affair had to be counselled as she developed anxiety issues. We are not flaky - there were no prior issues in our family. Things are ok now - my elder two are Oxbridge students so are in a place where the best treatment is available easily. But of five r females involved in this mess -( which was nowhere near as messy as your OM s situation, because my WH really got his act together) 4 needed intervention. That's not good. The poor OW who is a colleague is still fragile and unhappy. I'm sorry to sound so dramatic but the reverberations for all of you are not easily foreseeable and I believe go down the generations. Maybe ,since you said you are a clinician, it would be a good idea for you to find external help so that he can be helped to see the tsunami he is causing to build up here. Edited April 9, 2016 by Cymbeline Mistake 3 Link to post Share on other sites
loveisanaction Posted April 9, 2016 Share Posted April 9, 2016 Babs, I have followed your post from the beginning and have been rooting for you. You were going through an immense amount of pain during NC but what you fail to realize is that pain is not permanent, with time it subsides. The worst part of it would have almost been over. You would not have been in pain forever. This affair cannot be about you or your married man. There are children involved and a wife who is traumatized. You are contributing to her continuous trauma. How can that not tug at your heart? She could have been any one of us on here… The members of this site have truly been good to you, they had your back when your married man didn't. My wish for you is that you get out of this affair (again) soon. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
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