Other women [affair participants]...I need your ...[why's]

[whichwayisup]

Some women enjoy their independence. Not looking to get bogged down with a relationship. They enjoy the wining and dining and freedom to date whomever because your married. However at some point the fun comes to a end and they move on. I've done it

 

Not many that I've seen. Maybe it starts out that way but 9/10 the OW falls for MM and hopes for a future with him. It just happens. And most aren't dating other guys as well, it's just the MM.

[sandylee1]

Why not just try Ashley Madison or some other similar site for like-minded people? At least that way you'd stop hurting people besides your wife and children...

 

I understand what you mean about like minded people but

even on AM it doesn't all turn out that women don't hope for more. Women have fallen in love and gotten pregnant from MM they met through AM before ... yet they entered into it knowing fully well he was married.

[sandylee1]

Some women enjoy their independence. Not looking to get bogged down with a relationship. They enjoy the wining and dining and freedom to date whomever because your married. However at some point the fun comes to a end and they move on. I've done it

 

But if you don't want to get bogged down... why not date SINGLE men casually and retain your independence..... and in all honesty if you loose your independence in a relationship.. then it's not the right relationship. I call bs on that.

 

I've been married close to 20 years and I still have my independence and I always will.

 

When I hear OW say they got with A MM because they don't have time for a full time relationship or similar words, I think it's just another excuse to justify poor and immoral behaviour.

 

Effectively that's saying it's fine to sleep with another woman's husband. ..because you're too busy for a full time relationship.

Edited March 24, 2016 by sandylee1
eta

[thefooloftheyear]

It's been my experience as well that a "taken" man is FAR more desirable than a single one in the eyes of most women...Women routinely seek men who are desired by other women, even when not in a romantic sense...You hear it all the time....Guys report that the minute they are in some form of a committed relationship, all of a sudden they are getting attention from women they never had before..

 

I think this becomes even more pronounced with age....Not to discount divorced middle aged guys, but a 40+ year old single guy is viewed as either a loser or a player...The guy that's been a father, a provider, etc just looks way more appealing to many women..

 

I'm just relaying experience, why this is, I just really don't know...Some women I know state that ANY really "good" men are going to be taken...Supply and demand, perhaps?

 

TFY

[spouse2016]

When men talk like this, most women take it as a sign he's wanting this future. Even if you didn't promise anything per se they took it as a sign that you were thinking about it WITH THEM.

 

I haven't been a long time OW but I was in a relationship with someone who had issues attaching emotionally to me so I imagine it's very similar. It was fine in the beginning as I was out of a relationship not yet ready to date but enjoying the attention. As time went on I wanted to know he felt the same, looked for little signs of it, and I wanted more than he could give me so I had to end it.

 

That is an explanation of psychological aspect, but the women in question are simply selfish. It is like being upset about a heist going sour due to someone critical pulling out.

 

These women were fine to violate integrity of a relationship and traumatize someone. They just got into their own trap and unhappy about it.

[elaine567]

PS...

 

I don't want the MMs to leave their situations for me. Actually, if/when they're having issues with the wifey, I'm the first to recommend this or that to work on the marriage.

 

So, while some people don't "get" where I'm coming from, I don't see myself as destroying any homes and/or causing pain cuz all I'm doing is "borrowing" the MM and returning him...quite frankly, after I'm done with him it's like his batteries have been charged and he can bring more to the marriage.

 

 

This is the only way that I can see for an OW to be happy in an an Affair.

He is basically a FWB, nothing more, nothing less.

[Noideanow]

It's been my experience as well that a "taken" man is FAR more desirable than a single one in the eyes of most women...Women routinely seek men who are desired by other women, even when not in a romantic sense...You hear it all the time....Guys report that the minute they are in some form of a committed relationship, all of a sudden they are getting attention from women they never had before..

 

I think this becomes even more pronounced with age....Not to discount divorced middle aged guys, but a 40+ year old single guy is viewed as either a loser or a player...The guy that's been a father, a provider, etc just looks way more appealing to many women..

 

I'm just relaying experience, why this is, I just really don't know...Some women I know state that ANY really "good" men are going to be taken...Supply and demand, perhaps?

 

TFY

 

NOT at all, Im a woman and i Can myself judge a mans attractiveness dont need no other woman to find him attractive:cool: if he is single and content human being that only adds to his attractiveness:cool: nothing more unattractive than a man with another woman;) he is with her, cool let Them stay happy:) most mm in affairs are rarely seen with their wife (by the other woman) and Therefore look single:confused:

[elaine567]

I believe many OW, especially single ones see the Affair as just another relationship and dive in.

Her ego is high, she has managed to lure a man away from his wife, either actively by pursuing him or passively by being "so damned hot" he couldn't refuse and so pursued her.

Fireworks go off, ILYs get bandied about, the relationship "develops", either in reality or in her head, so she is then all set to take the next step which is him divorcing, them moving in together, making a life...

ONLY he starts stalling and making excuses, she is baffled, upset, hurt...

Finally...

It was only a bit of fun, you knew that surely?

FUN???? - I've given up 3 years of my life for you and it is just FUN?????

[elaine567]

NOT at all, Im a woman and i Can myself judge a mans attractiveness dont need no other woman to find him attractive:cool: if he is single and content human being that only adds to his attractiveness:cool: nothing more unattractive than a man with another woman;) he is with her, cool let Them stay happy:) most mm in affairs are rarely seen with their wife (by the other woman) and Therefore look single:confused:

 

I agree.

 

Thing is, it is very easy to flirt with a MM, it is "safe" flirting and can be outrageous, I have seen it happen a lot and I must admit have done it myself.

Men, I am really interested in, I am incredibly shy around.

[Ladyjane14]

Not an OW, but the answer to your question is a fairly simple one. Yes, you're a predator. So too is the OW. You both have your own reasons for prowling for the rush... low self-esteem, anxiety, depression, fear of commitment, you name it. Whatever the damage is, the illicit sex covers it up for awhile, at least for you. But that's not the bottom line for her.

 

It's like fishing really, Your bottom line is sex and ego fulfillment. You cast your line and throw the fish back in when you've had what you came for, go home and play house for a little while until the next time you feel like fishing.

 

The OWs tell you they're doing the same, but they're not, not really. Their ego fulfillment doesn't happen until the fish is on the plate.

 

Males, females... not the same critters. "Love" has nothing to do with it. This isn't love.

[sandylee1]

 

I think this becomes even more pronounced with age....Not to discount divorced middle aged guys, but a 40+ year old single guy is viewed as either a loser or a player.

 

 

I agree with this part of your post. If I hear that a 40+ year old guy is single... and looking to settle down ...has never been married ... I'd be wondering why .... what is it about him that has prevented that from happening.

 

Now among men who fit that description that I'm aware of..The reasons are:

 

Too fussy about the woman he wants

Not a lot to offer a woman himself (no job/no ambition)

Not physically appealing (must be really bad)

Troubled past (alcohol/drugs)

Personality (lack of)

 

 

There are a few more.. but you get the gist of it. I often feel if a man that age is single and doesn't want to be ... there's an underlying reason....with women that age..who are single (that want to settle) .... I think it's more a case of being unlucky in love.

 

You don't really see a good looking catch of a guy single.. not long anyway.

[SammySammy]

I agree with this part of your post. If I hear that a 40+ year old guy is single... and looking to settle down ...has never been married ... I'd be wondering why .... what is it about him that has prevented that from happening.

 

Now among men who fit that description that I'm aware of..The reasons are:

 

Too fussy about the woman he wants

Not a lot to offer a woman himself (no job/no ambition)

Not physically appealing (must be really bad)

Troubled past (alcohol/drugs)

Personality (lack of)

 

 

There are a few more.. but you get the gist of it. I often feel if a man that age is single and doesn't want to be ... there's an underlying reason....with women that age..who are single (that want to settle) .... I think it's more a case of being unlucky in love.

You don't really see a good looking catch of a guy single.. not long anyway.

 

Wow. Really?

 

So, he has no choice in the matter?

 

What if women want him ... but he just doesn't want to be married? Is that possible?

[elaine567]

I think society in general views older single men and women negatively.

There MUST be something terribly wrong with them - when just a quick scan of these boards and IRL, shows you that there is something "terribly wrong" with those who got married too...

[privategal]

Dont you hurt for these women? Dont you feel pain that you throw people away after you've used them?

[sandylee1]

Wow. Really?

 

So, he has no choice in the matter?

 

What if women want him ... but he just doesn't want to be married? Is that possible?

 

 

Did you read my entire post properly?

 

I did say that was if he DIDN'T want to be single. I did mention that's if he was looking to settle down.... not in the case where he is single by choice.

[sandylee1]

It's not so much a negative view on single people ... it's more of..... there must be a reason why...assuming that they actually want marriage or a lasting relationship.

 

If you ever go to things like high school reunions or bump into a long lost friend .... asking if they're married and have kids is standard stuff.

 

Because people don't generally want to be single and on their own for life .. it just isn't the norm. It's an individual choice of course...... but the more natural human instinct is to want companionship in the form of a mate.

 

I do some work with teens in schools discussing marriage and the first question we ask is for a show of hands of those who hope to/want to get married in the future or to be in a lasting relationship. It's always 90 - 95% of the class.

 

It's different if you are divorced and single and don't want a relationship because of a bad experience ... but just single .... with no partner at a certain age can have people wondering why.

[Toodaloo]

Understood and agree for the most part. But my original question still stands....why do the women enter in to these relationships in the first place.

Do they go in thinking something will change?

Do they go in thinking it will just be fun for a while and then plan to bail?

Why do early 30's, successful, attractive, smart women get involved in these?

 

Because they think the MM will leave his wife and they can go off sunning themselves and live happily ever after.

 

Yes some are so delusional that they still think that even if you do not say those things. After all you still shower them with affection etc so the conflict between your words and actions is confusing.

 

Then after a while they realise that they are just a piece of ass to you and you will not leave your wife and they are upset by this hence why they all end the same way.

 

Just a thought though but if you crave that excitement etc and flush of first love why not use your imagination and try to get that with your wife? Some of the most successful marriages I know are ones where the couple has worked together to maintain those little flutters. They do things together, compliment each other and go off to do daft fun things together...

 

If you are happy to treat your wife in such a crass way why bother staying married to her at all?

[serial muse]

Ok, maybe the MMs aren't "unhappy" per se...

 

My fav podcaster articulated what I believed about my neighbor for the longest (and many cheating MM) is that they don't love the OW nor their wife...each woman fulfills a "role, want, need" of his.

 

The wife is the "family", the kids, and apple pie, cozy couches....the "home". Also, how he fits in with society, the world, family and friends to show that he's got a family tooo.

 

The OW is desire, sex, excitement...shoot, the OW may be non of those..maybe she's the woman he has more in common with.

 

Some men are fortunate to have gotten the "whole" package. Their wife is their friend, lover, mother of his kids. But some women simply aren't all that. I can sit here and compare/contrast myself and other women all day.

 

Thing is, some married men with women who fall short make up their mind and "accept" who they chose...some don't. They want it all. Can't have it all cuz then you're hurting two women. Accept what you have and stop chasing other women or leave your wife and go meet the woman of your dreams.

 

So, the MM may not be unhappy with wifey, but she sure isn't meeting needs, wants, and/or desires he has. So, instead of leaving wifey, MM wants his cake and eat it too.

 

So no, guys who wanna play both women aren't in love with either, all they want is it like Burger King.

 

BTW, the call my favorite podcaster took was on two women in a marriage. One of the women was upset cuz they have been together for like 20 years and her wife will not give up a EA that's been going in for years...

 

And, while many women think they can make the MM leave the wife, I believe in what I posted above - which is, some men want both the wife and OW cuz they "both" fill a role for him...Doesn't mean that he loves them. That's why you don't see me trying to break up any homes...I know what the "roles" are.

 

I wonder how much of it is competition/validation for an OW (and perhaps OM as well). The above post, particularly the part in bold, suggests that this is a large part of it for those OW who aren't actually looking for a relationship - they are still needing something, and it's not just sex. It's validation, that they're sexier, smarter, more together, more "independent" than the BS, whatever. It's still a kind of neediness. And honestly, I think it's probably significant that the man you've been kind of obsessed with over the last 2 years is the one who didn't go for the "arrangement", Gloria - that's what keeps him interesting to you. I suspect that if he had been interested and you'd been able to have an affair with him, you would have had a much easier time letting go of him, too (and perhaps wouldn't be so invested in the idea that he's watching you and trying to "mold" his wife into you somehow).

Edited March 24, 2016 by serial muse

[Miss Peach]

It's been my experience as well that a "taken" man is FAR more desirable than a single one in the eyes of most women...

 

I don't believe it's that they're taken. I believe it's because the guy has something so they get out of pleasing/nice guy mode and don't give a *****. Confidence is attractive.

 

They go into it in the first place because they are not thinking AT ALL.

 

Both genders are like this but I think that's true for a lot of these relationships. People don't thin 2-3 steps ahead and ask if the situation is good for them.

 

These women were fine to violate integrity of a relationship and traumatize someone. They just got into their own trap and unhappy about it.

 

I do believe it's an integrity issue. A lot of people don't see how the integrity issue impacts both them and the MM. Both are not acting with integrity.

 

Her ego is high, she has managed to lure a man away from his wife, either actively by pursuing him or passively by being "so damned hot" he couldn't refuse and so pursued her.

 

Not sure the case with men but with women it's often poor self esteem and boundaries. That's why I believe the highs of the pursuit are so addicting. If she had the self esteem she would opt out rather than let it bring her down.

 

I do believe this has something to do with it. But in the end the women forget that the 'prize' is someone who lacks honesty and integrity.

 

I agree with this part of your post. If I hear that a 40+ year old guy is single... and looking to settle down ...has never been married ... I'd be wondering why .... what is it about him that has prevented that from happening.

 

I'm divorced and I am fine with being single. But I do get this attitude a lot from married coworkers. One even told me once unprompted 'You aren't difficult to get along with so I can't figure out why you're not married'.

 

It's different if you are divorced and single and don't want a relationship because of a bad experience ... but just single .... with no partner at a certain age can have people wondering why.

 

Actually the divorced ones that avoid relationships because they can't risk getting hurt again are HUGE red flags in my book. I want a man who can overcome his obstacles and take risks. Using history as an excuse not to act isn't acceptable to me.

 

I wonder how much of it is competition/validation for an OW (and perhaps OM as well).

 

I think it might not be initially but at some point it becomes that. The OW wants to win. It's similar to what is seen on reality shows like the Bachelor. I really have a tough time imagining 26 people fall in love with the person they probably spend a total of an hour per week with for a few weeks. They want to beat out the other attractive people there.

[rainbowsandkittens]

If I hear that a 40+ year old guy is single... and looking to settle down ...has never been married ... I'd be wondering why .... what is it about him that has prevented that from happening.

 

 

There are a few more.. but you get the gist of it. I often feel if a man that age is single and doesn't want to be ... there's an underlying reason....with women that age..who are single (that want to settle) .... I think it's more a case of being unlucky in love.

 

You don't really see a good looking catch of a guy single.. not long anyway.

 

As a woman of a certain age, thank you!

 

I think most people assume that older women (late 30s +) who are still single are damaged in some way. That there's something inexorably wrong with us. Heck, it feels that way to me sometimes! But I'd like to think it's just that I've chosen wrong (and chosen wrong... and chosen wrong...) And that I will still meet someone right one day.

 

But when I meet a man my age or older who's still single my first thought is, "What's wrong with them?" because it seems so rare, especially where I live.

 

It's a terrible double standard, I know.

 

I will also say that there is something to the idea that MM can be attractive to single women bc they're seen as good providers, partners and fathers. I know that when you see it for what it really is- clearly he's not a good father, provider or man if he's engaging in an affair. From the surface, though, it can seem like, "Wow, here's a man who can provide the things that I am looking for..." even if the end of that sentence, "which I know because he's already doing it for someone else." Especially because so many MM make it seem like that second part is mostly over/ they're taken for granted/ they're selflessly staying bc they want to be there for their children whom they care about more than they care about their own happiness.

 

The same can be true (or truer) of divorced dads though. Who are, clearly, a much safer partner. Even with the potential baggage they come along with.

[ladydesigner]

As a woman of a certain age, thank you!

 

I think most people assume that older women (late 30s +) who are still single are damaged in some way. That there's something inexorably wrong with us. Heck, it feels that way to me sometimes! But I'd like to think it's just that I've chosen wrong (and chosen wrong... and chosen wrong...) And that I will still meet someone right one day.

 

But when I meet a man my age or older who's still single my first thought is, "What's wrong with them?" because it seems so rare, especially where I live.

 

It's a terrible double standard, I know.

 

I will also say that there is something to the idea that MM can be attractive to single women bc they're seen as good providers, partners and fathers. I know that when you see it for what it really is- clearly he's not a good father, provider or man if he's engaging in an affair. From the surface, though, it can seem like, "Wow, here's a man who can provide the things that I am looking for..." even if the end of that sentence, "which I know because he's already doing it for someone else." Especially because so many MM make it seem like that second part is mostly over/ they're taken for granted/ they're selflessly staying bc they want to be there for their children whom they care about more than they care about their own happiness.

 

The same can be true (or truer) of divorced dads though. Who are, clearly, a much safer partner. Even with the potential baggage they come along with.

 

The bold is good REAL good! This makes total sense to me and I can see why this would be attractive to an OW who is seeking something fullfilling not just a FWB relationship. In our case I truly believe the MOW loved my WH and he loved her at one point too. He was helping pay her rent and take care of her child. He gave her everything that I was lacking from him at the time. So he was being a good partner to her during the A and a very bad husband and father at the same time to me.

[rainbowsandkittens]

The bold is good REAL good! This makes total sense to me and I can see why this would be attractive to an OW who is seeking something fullfilling not just a FWB relationship. In our case I truly believe the MOW loved my WH and he loved her at one point too. He was helping pay her rent and take care of her child. He gave her everything that I was lacking from him at the time. So he was being a good partner to her during the A and a very bad husband and father at the same time to me.

 

 

Ugh. I'm so sorry about your WS. I was mainly talking about the idea that the MM would one day do the same for them but the fact that your H actually did? FEH TO HIM.

[sandylee1]

The bold is good REAL good! This makes total sense to me and I can see why this would be attractive to an OW who is seeking something fullfilling not just a FWB relationship. In our case I truly believe the MOW loved my WH and he loved her at one point too. He was helping pay her rent and take care of her child. He gave her everything that I was lacking from him at the time. So he was being a good partner to her during the A and a very bad husband and father at the same time to me.

 

So her own husband could not pay the rent?

 

Or care for his child financially?

[ladydesigner]

So her own husband could not pay the rent?

 

Or care for his child financially?

 

Nope apparently not. Her husband (I think he is her ex now) was a struggling artist, very talented but didn't make a lot. She too does not make much and is in and out of jobs all the time.

 

Her child is from a different father than her husband so not sure how much her husband contributed. I know half of the time her child lived with her aunt because she could not provide for her.

 

Of course this is what I have been told from WH and MOW, so I cannot say it is fact.

[Babsinhealing]

Hello all,

Hoping to get some insight into the mind of the OW.

I am married 49 yr old, successful man who has had 3 separate A's.

All were with women in their early to mid 30's.

All knew that I was married from the very beginning - never any deceit.

I never promised a future with any of them.

One lasted almost 4 years

One lasted 3.5 years

The latest one lasted officially for about 9 months (but some of it was long distance due to her moving to another city mid way )

All were great experiences

Never a D - Day with any of them.

 

So here is where I need the insight:

 

When each one of them ended, it was always some variation of them ending it because there was no future and getting "mad" at me for being married.

There we no big fights. No dramatic endings for the most part. I know I was pretty luck. These were all great. The women were amazing. We spend a lot of time together. Great conversations. Great sex. Great everything.

 

Why do women enter into these types of relationships in the first place. I know I am lucky that none ended with too much drama or a big D Day, etc.

I struggle at the end to respond to the "You're married" anger that comes from them - they knew it all along.

 

Help me understand what the thought process is. Please.

 

With that, I also ask that you refrain from the judgement part of it. That has been well documented. Just hoping for some real insight.

 

Many thanks.

PTL- I didn't read the string of responses- I'm sure you've taken a beating by some but I will give you my OW perspective because I can relate. I am M but I entered into my 19 month A with a MM to fill a void (I'm in a sexless marriage and so was he- less than 10 times a year). I really had no plans to get emotionally involved. I though we could keep it fun, sexual and we could get our emotional needs met at home. However my plans changed the more time we spent together.

 

We were "all in" for 19 months- texting from sunrise to bedtime, calling, meeting 1-2 times a week, overnights, sharing lives, enjoyed laying together, cuddling and laughing. We never talked about running off into the sunset together but we talked about how he was "done" with his marriage and he had withdrawn from his wife and her family over the past few years in preparation of leaving when his youngest finished high school. He also stopped initiating sex with his wife (which was very vanilla) and would save it for me (he's 50 so we know about refractory recovery) He made many comments to me (intention or not) that told me he was not happy in his marriage anymore. He also adored me, complimented me, prioritized me, made me feel special, never cancelled or made me feel like an option - and he shared all his secrets, told me things he could never tell his wife- I felt we were best friends in a way. You can't do all that to a girl and not get her attached. I fell for it all. I've said in my threads- if he lied - he should win an academy award because I'm not naive or inexperienced, and I never questioned our talks or felt he was lying.... Never once.

 

Well- We got caught- pushed the A underground but I ended it and went NC 20 days ago. I Was angry with him because he gave me such a mixed message post DD. Despite everything we shared for almost 2 years, I realized it was all words- he wasnt going to just up and leave his 25 year marriage, teenage daughter (and two in college), house, financial security and reputation. I wish he never shared his unhappiness, his secrets, his challenges. I wish we just kept it physical like the initial plan. I think he enjoyed my company and my personality. I was very different from his wife but I wish he didn't get into my mind and heart like he did. I also think he knew it would keep me happy and during the A, that was his goal.

 

So- if you plan to keep cheating - remember this next time... Laying with her, cuddling her, holding her face when you kiss her, holding hands when you make love, sharing secrets, staring into her eyes, rubbing her back, kissing her nose and forehead, complimenting her, entwining your body with her while watching the news, prioritizing time with her over the W, mentioning anything unhappy about your W - will all give them hope. So if you want to play - I know it sounds cold but "hit and and run"... Keep them on speed dial and call when you are in the vicinity- and don't stay and cuddle. We are just not biologically made to not get emotionally attached.... Damn oxytocin. Good luck!