J dub Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Hey everyone, I am taking a personal poll -- Do you think it's possible for someone, if they got caught lying, so stop? What about cheating...if they did or didnt get caught, either way do you think they could stop? Has anyone ever seen it work out in the end? Link to post Share on other sites
LucreziaBorgia Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Originally posted by J dub 1. Do you think it's possible for someone, if they got caught lying, so stop? 2. What about cheating...if they did or didnt get caught, either way do you think they could stop? 3. Has anyone ever seen it work out in the end? 1. Yes, but they have to want to work through what got them lying in the first place. Liars will always be liars until they decide they don't want to be anymore: and then take the necessary steps to see that they can learn to make choices NOT to lie. Just being caught won't stop a liar - if a person refuses to change what makes them want to lie, then they will just get better at lying. 2. Same as above. A person who cheats has to want to stop - and that 'wanting to stop' has to come completely from within. Being caught or not being caught won't make any difference if the only motivation to stop comes from avoidance of punishment. The cheater has to learn to come to terms with the things that makes him/her want to cheat, and learn to choose not to. 3. Yes. It can work out in the end. But... it requires the work of both partners - one to be honest, and the other to allow the other to come clean and be honest: even if what they need to tell you is painful to hear. If someone thinks that being honest is going to result in punishment then they won't be honest. Its a big give-and-take - a liar and a cheater is not going to be completely honest with someone unless they can say "I love you for who you are, I accept that you have flaws and I want to help you get through this so that you can learn not to want to lie to me and cheat on me". Sometimes offering true help can be as painful to deal with as being hurt in the first place. If you are with someone, and they never reach a point where they want to change - then you have only one choice: accept them as they are, or leave. You can't change a person who doesn't want to change him/herself. You always hear "if you loved me, you wouldn't do this" - and I don't think that's a very effective way of getting someone to want to change. Love for a person alone won't make someone any less of a liar and a cheater. They can love you, and still refuse to make the changes for themselves. That's often the hardest thing (not to mention infuriating) for people to understand. Link to post Share on other sites
ConfusedInOC Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Originally posted by J dub Hey everyone, I am taking a personal poll -- Do you think it's possible for someone, if they got caught lying, so stop? What about cheating...if they did or didnt get caught, either way do you think they could stop? Has anyone ever seen it work out in the end? 1. Lying: Depends on why they are lying. People who lie often are not living in the present, but in their own "reality" of what things are and what they want them to be. 2. Cheating: If someone cheats on you, my question would be, do you really want them back? What does it say about the kind of personality that they need to grain comfort in the arms of someone else? It's a bad character flaw and one that, while I can forgive, it doesn't mean I will forget or take them back. You will never forget they cheated on you and it will take so long to learn to trust them again that sometimes it's best to just move on. Living in fear they will cheat again or always being suspicious is not a healthy relationship. It's probably the reason why God will allow for divorce in that situation and the ONLY reason He will allow for it. Link to post Share on other sites
scratch Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Originally posted by J dub Do you think it's possible for someone, if they got caught lying, to stop? What about cheating...if they did or didnt get caught, either way do you think they could stop? Has anyone ever seen it work out in the end? 1. I don't think that getting caught stops people from lying. For me, it was growing up, and deciding I'd like who I was better if I stopped lying. But, in general, I do believe that people can stop if they really want to, but most don't. Not lying can be very lonely at times. 2. I think people tend to cheat because they aren't happy with their current relationship. I was cheated on by one person, and she wanted to send me a message that I made her feel ugly and unloved. I don't think that people cheat because they can't force themselves to stop, but am iffy about that one. 3. No. Granted, when I caught her I didn't handle things well (threw out all her clothes and killed her pet), but that made me feel even and therefore willing to try again from square one. But, after that, she wasn't willing to speak to me again. So, either you or she is going to feel like you got the short end of the deal, and things will unravel. This is probably overly personal and not generally applicable, and for that I apologize. Link to post Share on other sites
nicki Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 whoa, Scratch, you must have been in a really bad place to kill her pet. I don't think I could ever trust anyone again who acted that violently. Maybe she thought you would physically hurt her someday, too. I agree that liars can only change if they understand why they lied, and can be heard/accepted by their current partner for the reasons they lied...Trust takes a split second to sever, and a long time to rebuild. You have to start all over, with a scar to boot. Both parties have to agree to be completely honest about everything, mostly feelings. The liar has to be able to say when he feels scared, vulnerable so he won't lie again. I think people lie out of fear, to avoid facing reality....like fixing a bad relationship...like avoiding getting hurt again... Guess the above would be true for cheating. I think I would first need some major time away from the cheater, though, to feel separate and safe. Then I could think about going back in the water a toe at a time... Link to post Share on other sites
scratch Posted June 15, 2005 Share Posted June 15, 2005 Originally posted by nicki whoa, Scratch, you must have been in a really bad place to kill her pet. I don't think I could ever trust anyone again who acted that violently. Maybe she thought you would physically hurt her someday, too. I was really upset, and she may have thought that I would. I didn't do it as a step to salvage the relationship, but as a catharsis. If I had to do it again to feel okay, I think I would, but a year later I miss the dog more than the girl. Like I said, I don't know if there is a moral here, other than you may be better off not cheating and dealing with the consequences of a breakup and a hurt ex than cheating and dealing with an insanely angry ex. Link to post Share on other sites
Author J dub Posted June 15, 2005 Author Share Posted June 15, 2005 a year later I miss the dog more than the girl. Link to post Share on other sites
TylerC Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Originally posted by ConfusedInOC It's probably the reason why God will allow for divorce in that situation and the ONLY reason He will allow for it. Because everyone is automatically Christian and believes in God, right? Link to post Share on other sites
zack121 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 I think people lie for numerous reasons and whilst I dont subscribe to them really i'll add my piece. as this has happened to me. and the only things I can come up with are as follows. I will use the word dishonesty (as it covers both lieing and cheating) people are dishonest to protect themselves (never works) out of fear (never works) to protect the other person (never works) to minimise the after effect (never works) one thing that I subscribe to is this... its not a matter of being dishonest, becuase people have ways of dealing with there own Conscious if a person can justify the dishonesty in there own mind then they can never learn from it as its not really a concern they have - they have explained it to themselves allready hence not learning. perhpas they can change, but I doubt it. My ex lied to me, and basically thats all I can think of. she had a way to deal with the $hit she did in her own mind, it did not help me at all it made things harder as I was unable to understand why/how she justified it, with understanding, perhaps I would not feel bad. not sure if that is of benefit, but thats what I feel. Link to post Share on other sites
joodee Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 1. I think it's possible for a person to stop lying, but one has to develop a conscience and morals. From my experience with a liar I don't see any conscience or moral grounding. After all he's lost, he still won't stop lying! 2. Same with cheating. One has to really feel the loss, the consequence of the action of cheating on someone before change in the behavior takes place...but if one is only sorry for cheating because one got caught, oh well... 3. I have see it work out with some couples, it took alot of work and rebuilding of trust on both parties. For me, it's never worked out, ultimately I wound up leaving the ones that cheated on me. The guys that cheated on me each had a major character flaw, and if it's to work out, the major character flaw shouldn't be present. The ones that did work out the cheating issue basically had a guy (or gal) that admitted things were missing in the relationship and expressed genuine regret and went into therapy. For me, the guys that cheated on me never made it to therapy, and just tried to hide more sh^&. Link to post Share on other sites
zack121 Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 jodee, makes a fair point, I also belive that, or rather it would appear that some people lie to get out of lies, in fact some people lie and totally forget about it, my ex told me she was sexually abused , so anytime anything came on TV/Radio remotely connect to sexual abuse I'd change it whatever. 4 years later I asked about it, and she told me it never happened but then went on to justify the excuse. if I had never mentioned it, she would have never remembered it. I even had to refresh her memory about the original conversation... I think some people just can;t help/ or know no better, its sad. Link to post Share on other sites
Lonestar Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Originally posted by scratch I was really upset, and she may have thought that I would. I didn't do it as a step to salvage the relationship, but as a catharsis. If I had to do it again to feel okay, I think I would, but a year later I miss the dog more than the girl. Excuse me, but scratch, you killed a dog? And you think that's a normal way to get back at someone? Duh, anyone can see you didn't do that to salvage the relationship... that's f*cking obvious. So exactly how did you kill this innocent animal? Link to post Share on other sites
ConfusedInOC Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Originally posted by TylerC Because everyone is automatically Christian and believes in God, right? Nope. Not everyone will either. Thus a Heaven and a Hell. The reason I brought it up is to show how much God despises it. Link to post Share on other sites
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