When there's no one else to talk to ...

[Dylon]

Katiely, You missed the boat as you have often attacked me for 6 months because you are a bs. Where did I say it's for my benefit? It's for her and what I do and she does is for herself and for benefit after the affair. As I've stated and you often ignore because I'm a ws, I'm doing everything humanly possible to correct my mistake. I'm accountable for my action but everyone is accountable for looking after their best interest. My reply is to AP and how she should look after herself. pm me if you have an issue with me. You have a lot a angry issue that should be directed to your IC or bs. You don't me or my wife.

[66Charger]

Well, that would make me want to reconcile.

 

NOT.

 

Why on earth would you say such a thing? Here is what the bs (especially female) hears. "You can not rely on me....stop....no need to say anymore.

 

I am not sure if that was cruel or just plain stupid.

[66Charger]

Okay, well that answered itself.

[Dylon]

I didn't say she can't rely on me but one need to look within themselves for happiness too. I don't see why that is so controversial. Yes, I'm aware and remember your attack on me too charger.

 

Simply asking the op to look after herself is wrong? If she wants a divorce and it's the best thing for her, I support that view too.

 

But excuse for trying to help as I see only bs are welcome

[66Charger]

Stating opinions are not attacks. Regardless, not sure many wives would think that is a "caring" statement..

 

Man101. Watch what you say. She hears what she wants to hear.

 

ESPECIALLY SINCE YOU CHEATED.

 

Are you really that dense? No one is atracking you the person, just the statement.

 

Never mind. Someone post 10 characters for me.

Edited April 5, 2016 by 66Charger

[ShatteredLady]

Please stop this "It's because you're a bs", "it's because you're an OW", "WS would say that!".

 

I don't know the background 'label' of most of the posters here! If a human being is hurting I try to help. If people don't like my answer I THINK about it & don't just dismiss their point of view because they don't have the same history as me!

 

I'm NOT a bs, I'm a person!! Some of my best friends here are OW.

 

Can we just read the OP's post & talk to her? Try to help or considerate with her & stop this 'teams' of bs, ow, WS etc?

[heartwhole]

I thought what Dylon said made sense. I didn't read it as insulting to the BS. Therapy 101 is figuring out what makes YOU happy regardless of what your spouse does or doesn't do. You can't change the other person. You can change yourself. I'm in IC and we spend more time talking about who I am and what I want than we do working through my feelings about the infidelity (I'm the BW; DD was one year ago). The dynamic Dylon describes is exactly what all the "Do the 180" advice to the BS recommends.

 

And I think the advice to focus on your own happiness is helpful since the OP says that her husband isn't changing and she wants to stay in the marriage. What else can she do?

 

I have had so little energy for the last several years and all I've done is support WH in all his stuff. Now that we are shifting our dynamic to be more equal, I do find myself asking, "What is it I even want?" Sure, I know that I don't want him to fill the entire weekend so that I have no say, but now that I have a say, what do I want? I've had to sit down and envision my perfect weekend, and then take steps to make it happen. I recognize that I would just impotently sit around feeling frustrated that I had no 'me time' without knowing what I'd spend the 'me time' doing. It was a vicious cycle and it's on me to put a stop to it. And like Dylon said, I know WH wants good things for me and is happy to see me making myself happy.

[katielee]

For a cheater to say, "I will love her more if she acts a certain way." I mean really?

And by the way, I'm a WW too.

[Dylon]

Thank you heartwhole! Obviously you are more articulate than me and your position holds more weight. I didn't know what I said could be that bad. As you said, when I see that my wife is happy doing something that makes her happy, it only increase the chances that we will be ok. Positive energy bounce back and forth and grows. It's contagious. She sees and understand my point now. When two people love each other, they will feed off each other' snappiness. My marriage is working again and moving in the right direction, but this thread wasn't about me so I didn't want to get into what we are doing.

 

As wholeheart said, the op didn't want a divorce and her husband isn't trying and she's struggling for years. Feel trapped in her hurt. He's not here to talk to us. A suggestion to focus on herself now and look within. I didn't see why that was such a bad suggestion. Definitely wasn't an attack but a support or an idea to make things better for herself.

 

 

I thought what Dylon said made sense. I didn't read it as insulting to the BS. Therapy 101 is figuring out what makes YOU happy regardless of what your spouse does or doesn't do. You can't change the other person. You can change yourself. I'm in IC and we spend more time talking about who I am and what I want than we do working through my feelings about the infidelity (I'm the BW; DD was one year ago). The dynamic Dylon describes is exactly what all the "Do the 180" advice to the BS recommends.

 

And I think the advice to focus on your own happiness is helpful since the OP says that her husband isn't changing and she wants to stay in the marriage. What else can she do?

 

I have had so little energy for the last several years and all I've done is support WH in all his stuff. Now that we are shifting our dynamic to be more equal, I do find myself asking, "What is it I even want?" Sure, I know that I don't want him to fill the entire weekend so that I have no say, but now that I have a say, what do I want? I've had to sit down and envision my perfect weekend, and then take steps to make it happen. I recognize that I would just impotently sit around feeling frustrated that I had no 'me time' without knowing what I'd spend the 'me time' doing. It was a vicious cycle and it's on me to put a stop to it. And like Dylon said, I know WH wants good things for me and is happy to see me making myself happy.

[Dylon]

For a cheater to say, "I will love her more if she acts a certain way." I mean really?

And by the way, I'm a WW too.

 

Again. Not correct. I love her more if I see that she cares for herself and help to make the marriage better. Marriage problem is two persons. The affair is my fault but for the marriage to be fixed, it takes two. Again. This isn't about me. My wife depends on me on everything. I didn't want to hijack this thread just because a few have issues with my comment and I go on to defend my thoughts.

[66Charger]

I don't see the problem with defending ones words or opinions. Having issues with posters comments are what forums are for. You and heartwhole see it as a positive statement, others see it a different way. The world will not end. And sometimes its the way you say things (of this, I have been told lots of times). Or there may be a difference between a MC/IC saying one thing and a WS saying the same thing to a BS.

 

Regardless, this dirt is starting to wear thin. I am starting to believe people are NOT inherently good. This is a departure from my thought process 10 months ago. I need to go dark.

 

Where is my invite to travel to England and see the sites Shattered? Too late, too late, besides, the Pacific ocean is way better.

[ShatteredLady]

I've posted a photo to reply!!

[ladydesigner]

You are such a tolerate person! You have endured so much. So sorry you are still hurting and things are not going well. Your husband is a difficult one.

 

I told my bs this: that she can't rely on me for everything including her happiness. In fact, all her life she relied on me for everything. If I don't turn on the tv, she won't do it herself. If I'm happy, she is. If I'm upset, she's bothered. She can expect that I do all I can and will not lie or betray her again. She can expect that I will do my best from here on with all my promises and commitment. I will change and she should just sit back and watch things unfold. I know that's me and not your husband.

 

However, I said, I don't know if I can make you happy as you want it. You need to take an effort for yourself too and stop focusing on me and rely on me for everything. She claims that all she needs for happiness is for me to be with her, faithful and she's happy with the simple things in this simple life. What she doesn't realize is I don't want to play the role of being responsible for her happiness and doing everything for her. I have work, interests and ect that sometimes, I'm not with her all the time. She needs to look after herself and see what makes her tick. Need more friends? Need a hobby to heal from this? Be more independent. Then I saw that she started to try and found a hobby. She was filled with life again when she started to do things that she enjoyed without me. During this time, healing from the A was good for both of us. It made me wanted to try harder and love her more. Sure, she needs time, suspicious, and has the right to all the feelings after DD. She wanted to stay in the marriage so she needs to find a way to heal and do her part, not for me, but for herself.

Sorry for the long personal story but my point is maybe it's time to not think too much, focus too much on the marriage, him, ect.....You accepted to stay in the marriage so now make it a new chapter, one that is about you and not him. We don't need others to make us happy. It comes from within first and then when you least expect it, like love, good things come. A happy cheerful independent person draws energy and people. I'm so proud of my wife when I see her take something on herself and not just focus and rely on me. I start to see a partner, a lover, and someone I can go to.

 

Try to be carefree as much as you can. I know you've been through a lot and tried everything. However, it's worth writing you and giving you support and perspective from a ws POV. Take care!

 

The bolded are the only ways that I have been able to heal and have been doing so without the help of my WS.

 

Dylon it is good you are showing your BS how remorseful you are. I would never say that an A helps the M though, usually a M is never the same after an A. Trying to exhaust every option including counseling before deciding on D would have been a better option.

[66Charger]

She claims that all she needs for happiness is for me to be with her, faithful and she's happy with the simple things in this simple life. What she doesn't realize is I don't want to play the role of being responsible for her happiness

 

If you read this part, all she is asking, is for you to be with her and FAITHFULL, to be happy, and you do not wish to play the role of being responsible for that. I guess if I did someone dirty, there would be no limits to what I would do to "help their healing"

 

However, upon reading the entire post a second time, it clearly could be seen entirely different. I wouldn't say I was wrong in my "biased" thought process, however I do see I am wrong in what worked for the poster and his BS.

[ladydesigner]

Originally Posted by Dylon View Post

She claims that all she needs for happiness is for me to be with her, faithful and she's happy with the simple things in this simple life. What she doesn't realize is I don't want to play the role of being responsible for her happiness

 

 

Wow this must be what my WS feels which is exactly why we are in limbo. Not a good ploy Dylan you might wanna think twice about this one. The ball is actually in your wife's court not yours

[Dylon]

Wow this must be what my WS feels which is exactly why we are in limbo. Not a good ploy Dylan you might wanna think twice about this one. The ball is actually in your wife's court not yours

 

I know what you have gone through ladydesigner and I'm sorry how bad your husband has been treating you. I see your hurt and the op here and I can only think at some point, the husband isn't going to give you all you want. If you want to stay in the marriage as you and the op have said at all cost, then there must be a way to move forward starting with your own happiness from within. Otherwise you will be miserable for the rest of your life waiting for something that will never come. Since the op's husband is not here, we can't give him or yours advice so can only address what you and the op can do, which is to take care of yourself and find means to move forward and be happy.

 

As for my comment, it's out of context the bold and also since I didn't detail my marriage problem, seems odd. I only touched on just a little, that she depends on me on everything as I've said. You have to see my whole message to see the point I was making. My wife relies on me to be happy and that means I need to decide where to go, turn on the tv, make decisions for her, confirm for her this or that, be with her according to her definition of what makes her happy. I have no friends. Yet, I will tell you that I love my wife and she as caring as can be and works hard. However, it's one-sided. Marriage is give and take.

 

I had an EA with someone I never met. It was very devastating to her at a level most people wouldn't believe. Because I was her only person and life support. The downfall bought me to my knees and to the doctor office. I never witnessed such pain in a person, so much that even if she laughs and happier now, I'm still on depression from the mess, remorse, guilt, hurt, ect. Yet, I take care of her needs as before and more, with of course the promise never to betray her again. I went to IC, take AD, work harder, be with her all the time, reinvented our marriage. Too much to detail here.

 

My point is that she too needs to see what makes her happy and I can't be the only thing in her life and the marriage will fail. It's not true that she will be happy simply because there is no affair again. She believes this but it's false. She needs to look within herself too and I'm seeing more and more that she's happier because she recognize some positive things when she takes charge a bit. That makes me smile and happy because I can see a path with balance. My happiness reflects back to her. She ask how I'm instead of just wait for me to ask how she is, do something she likes instead of waiting for me to suggest something. Suggest to watch something instead of waiting for me to initiate. Now she realizes better why we had a marriage problem because we talk and talk, finally to the point that she understands that her happiness can't be just me, because it's one-sided and she needs to give too. Understand, I make no excuse for the A and I accept all responsibility and if she wanted to kick me out, I do understand.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Dylon

[Dylon]

Merrmeade, I apologize for taking up space with the back story which I tried to avoid. I took your thread title seriously. I hope you can reavailuate your viewpoints and expectation and hopefully good things will come naturally when you are well and happy again. You have the right to want and desire, and to expect and ask, but at some point if it's too much and you feel you are failing .....focus happiness on something else. If you can convince yourself that happiness is what you create and within your hand and not others, you will feel in more control and options start to open. Good things....we can hope. You first! Be well!

Edited April 6, 2016 by Dylon

[merrmeade]

You are such a tolerate person! You have endured so much. So sorry you are still hurting and things are not going well. Your husband is a difficult one.

 

I told my bs this: that she can't rely on me for everything including her happiness. In fact, all her life she relied on me for everything. If I don't turn on the tv, she won't do it herself. If I'm happy, she is. If I'm upset, she's bothered. She can expect that I do all I can and will not lie or betray her again. She can expect that I will do my best from here on with all my promises and commitment. I will change and she should just sit back and watch things unfold. I know that's me and not your husband.

 

However, I said, I don't know if I can make you happy as you want it. You need to take an effort for yourself too and stop focusing on me and rely on me for everything. She claims that all she needs for happiness is for me to be with her, faithful and she's happy with the simple things in this simple life. What she doesn't realize is I don't want to play the role of being responsible for her happiness and doing everything for her. I have work, interests and ect that sometimes, I'm not with her all the time. She needs to look after herself and see what makes her tick. Need more friends? Need a hobby to heal from this? Be more independent. Then I saw that she started to try and found a hobby. She was filled with life again when she started to do things that she enjoyed without me. During this time, healing from the A was good for both of us. It made me wanted to try harder and love her more. Sure, she needs time, suspicious, and has the right to all the feelings after DD. She wanted to stay in the marriage so she needs to find a way to heal and do her part, not for me, but for herself.

 

Sorry for the long personal story but my point is maybe it's time to not think too much, focus too much on the marriage, him, ect.....You accepted to stay in the marriage so now make it a new chapter, one that is about you and not him. We don't need others to make us happy. It comes from within first and then when you least expect it, like love, good things come. A happy cheerful independent person draws energy and people. I'm so proud of my wife when I see her take something on herself and not just focus and rely on me. I start to see a partner, a lover, and someone I can go to.

 

Try to be carefree as much as you can. I know you've been through a lot and tried everything. However, it's worth writing you and giving you support and perspective from a ws POV. Take care!

Whoa, sorry I missed all this! I sort of thought we were done here and got busy doing other things the last couple of days. As I said, the thread really served its purpose and offered some relief.

 

This back-and-forth has been interesting, and I think I see all the points of view. But what feels really good to me is that, personally, I didn't need it. Either I'm less vulnerable and raw or missing something because I didn't find the post (2 pages ago) insensitive or offensive nor was I the only BS that took it that way.

 

I do agree that it matters very much that this is being said by a WS but BECAUSE the overall tone was one of compassion, of someone just trying to help. I mean, he had to be sincere not to hesitate wandering in here as a WS offering advice! It sounded to me like he really didn't stop to think he's a WS and, therefore, his advice would not be welcome.

 

It makes a difference, too, that he was not speaking to someone just graduated from D-day (not that I'm celebrating being a post-graduate). Even commenting on all I've tolerated made it different—one human speaking to another. My husband certainly couldn't bring off trying to give me such advice nor would I take it from him. Actually there's no point in comparing because my H just plain doesn't do this kind of talk.

 

The main point resonated with me because my mother used to emphasize the importance of being responsible for your own happiness - and certainly the converse: Not letting yourself be made responsible for anyone else's happiness. I could also argue that I really don't expect my husband to make me happy, but I do actually. Letting him make me UNhappy is pretty much the other side of the same coin.

 

I mean we all read our own situations into others' and this was probably no exception. But the intent felt sincere to me and this last, heartfelt:

Merrmeade, I apologize for taking up space with the back story which I tried to avoid. I took your thread title seriously. I hope you can reavailuate your viewpoints and expectation and hopefully good things will come naturally when you are well and happy again. You have the right to want and desire, and to expect and ask, but at some point if it's too much and you feel you are failing .....focus happiness on something else. If you can convince yourself that happiness is what you create and within your hand and not others, you will feel in more control and options start to open. Good things....we can hope. You first! Be well!

Edited April 6, 2016 by merrmeade

[merrmeade]

I've posted a photo to reply!!

 

How do you do that and where did it go?

[understand50]

All,

 

I would add, that one should be open to hear all sides, and from all quarters. While, many here, seem to have issues in their own life, they can step back and see things in yours. I hope everyone takes everything here as intended, for the most part, a effort to help, or explain from their point of view and life experiences. I may not agree with some on LS, but I would never suggest people not post, nor that in some part of their post may be a "Gold Nugget" that will help. Read, discuss, and take what you need from all that is offered.

 

If nothing got offered, or accepted, how will you find what may be the right path for you?

 

My two cents......

[ladydesigner]

I know what you have gone through ladydesigner and I'm sorry how bad your husband has been treating you. I see your hurt and the op here and I can only think at some point, the husband isn't going to give you all you want. If you want to stay in the marriage as you and the op have said at all cost, then there must be a way to move forward starting with your own happiness from within. Otherwise you will be miserable for the rest of your life waiting for something that will never come. Since the op's husband is not here, we can't give him or yours advice so can only address what you and the op can do, which is to take care of yourself and find means to move forward and be happy.

 

As for my comment, it's out of context the bold and also since I didn't detail my marriage problem, seems odd. I only touched on just a little, that she depends on me on everything as I've said. You have to see my whole message to see the point I was making. My wife relies on me to be happy and that means I need to decide where to go, turn on the tv, make decisions for her, confirm for her this or that, be with her according to her definition of what makes her happy. I have no friends. Yet, I will tell you that I love my wife and she as caring as can be and works hard. However, it's one-sided. Marriage is give and take.

 

I had an EA with someone I never met. It was very devastating to her at a level most people wouldn't believe. Because I was her only person and life support. The downfall bought me to my knees and to the doctor office. I never witnessed such pain in a person, so much that even if she laughs and happier now, I'm still on depression from the mess, remorse, guilt, hurt, ect. Yet, I take care of her needs as before and more, with of course the promise never to betray her again. I went to IC, take AD, work harder, be with her all the time, reinvented our marriage. Too much to detail here.

 

My point is that she too needs to see what makes her happy and I can't be the only thing in her life and the marriage will fail. It's not true that she will be happy simply because there is no affair again. She believes this but it's false. She needs to look within herself too and I'm seeing more and more that she's happier because she recognize some positive things when she takes charge a bit. That makes me smile and happy because I can see a path with balance. My happiness reflects back to her. She ask how I'm instead of just wait for me to ask how she is, do something she likes instead of waiting for me to suggest something. Suggest to watch something instead of waiting for me to initiate. Now she realizes better why we had a marriage problem because we talk and talk, finally to the point that she understands that her happiness can't be just me, because it's one-sided and she needs to give too. Understand, I make no excuse for the A and I accept all responsibility and if she wanted to kick me out, I do understand.

 

I see your point Dylon thank you for explaining, sorry if my post came across the wrong way. I get triggered sometimes when I feel non-empathy from a WS, but that is not the case with you!

 

I just will never understand the WS who does not have the capacity to feel compassion or empathy for their spouse. That came as a big surprise to me in my M because I really had no idea my WH was this way until False R and his reactions towards my pain were waaay off the mark.

[ShatteredLady]

Photo.... If you click on my red shatteredlady a couple of times it's on my page.

 

I got it to appear here but it vanished

Sorry. I was just being silly. It's a photo of the English seaside with my son (well dressed, sweater & jeans!) dancing in the sea.

[ShatteredLady]

[]

 

After everything I've been through I still believe that people are inherently good & kind....they're also inherently flawed & screw-up! Love is recognizing all this & still standing for someone.

 

Reading these forums it frightens me that so many good, loving people could be damaged by horrible experiences & loose their 'bright side', their hope, their faith.

Edited April 8, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[jnel921]

In advance: Nobody and no post is going to do any better at pointing out that he doesn't deserve any of this. I can see how absurd it is and maybe the only answer IS getting out. But I am not discussing that and any attempt to push that agenda makes me obstinate.

 

As I've also conveyed, I don't hold circumstances or other people, even my husband who cheated on me multiple times, responsible for my own happiness. I consider marriage, especially once there are children (and now, grandchildren), a commitment that I've made to all the people it touches, to society and my own moral foundation—almost to the institution itself. I know it sounds pious and unromantic and maybe that's a problem. I'm neither bragging and, believe me, wish I could shake it. But I'm not apologizing for any of it and will not appreciate anyone side-tracking this into wtf-why-don't-just-dump-his-asz talk.

 

 

I am not sure what it is that you want to hear. I personally can continue with my M 3 and a half years after D-day because my H is remorseful, we can discuss it without issue. He breaks down every now and then when triggered and apologizes for the flaw he created in our M. This accountability is key to a successful R and future.

 

You don't want to hold your H responsible for your happiness but how could you not. When we get married isn't this one of the vows we take, making all kinds of promises to the other person? He broke that. Just like many of us here who were broken.

 

To fix and heal your M you both have to want to do thie work. Sound like when you feel like it's going no where you shut down. The bigger issues will always be an elephant in the room until you make clear to your WH what you expect and he sincerely delivers. Your feelings and happiness should count.

 

Good Luck to you.

[merrmeade]

Answers in bold:

... To fix and heal your M you both have to want to do thie work.

Whether it sounds like an excuse or not, this has been discussed a LOT: You both have to want AND BE ABLE to do the work. I feel he does what he knows how to do. The question is will it be enough for me.

 

Sound like when you feel like it's going no where you shut down.

good observation - no argument

The bigger issues will always be an elephant in the room until you make clear to your WH what you expect and he sincerely delivers.

No, not to him. He simply doesn't see that elephant and, yes, what that says about him is sometimes hard to live with. I've made it clear. He's impaired (same thing said above - also discussed a lot).

 

Your feelings and happiness should count.

Agree. This is pretty fundamental and also what has been addressed in many thoughtful ways in this thread. But you're right. Bottom line is can I live with how much I'

m

valued and by whom.

 

good points and yes it is circular

 

Good Luck to you.