When there's no one else to talk to ...

[merrmeade]

MM...

 

You know that your story is one that breaks my heart so much. One thing I think you need right now is to know how valuable you are ....your kids and family need and love you so much.....and i will even say....so does that ornery husband of yours.

 

You know triggers are just memories....and anything can cause them. We learn to deal with them as time goes on...but they cause such a flood of emotions.....good and bad. But are triggers just memories? They

 

John used to go into deep depression when he would trigger. He still has them....but they last a shorter period of time and they don't cause the uncontrollable depression. I think it helps him knowing that I care enough to help him through them.

 

Your husband may be giving you all he can.....you have eluded to that many times....(i don't think this is the case...but more on that in a minute)....but he certainly is not giving you all you need.

 

And there in lies the difference. You accept that he is incapable...therefore he is.

 

I am afraid you give up on him too easily....he knows which buttons to push...to frustrate you so that you will leave him alone.....and he pushes them frequently. He is a player...in more ways then one.

 

You have been crippling through this "reconciliation" for a long time...and there does not seem to be any further progress.

 

So I wonder ...if the time has come for you to give him an ultimatum. The trouble with this is....you have to be prepared for his answer.

 

Only you know how much you can deal with and how much you can take...and all the minute details of your relationship. I know you have said many times how handsome he is....and financial successful....and you have so many years invested in him....that starting over just does not seem possible to you.

 

You have worked tremendously on yourself....yet something seems to be eluding you....and that something is peace.

 

At the end of the day...it is your refection you see in the mirror...and my question to you is this....do you like who you see? Are you willing to accept your life just the way it is? Because...you cannot make him change....you cannot make him give you what you need. You cannot make him remorseful...and you and i both know...he isn't.

 

Remorse equals action. When he sees you hurt...does he do his best to comfort you? When he sees you struggling....does he give you strength?

When he sees you giving up...does he give you encouragement?

 

So simple...yet so hard for a selfish person. Understanding someone else's pain and doing something to alleviate it...is almost beyond comprehension.

 

Continue to fix...you. Stop trying to fix...him.....and take control of your own destiny.

 

If your children behaved as your husband behaves....you would reprimand them. He is not your child....he is your partner....it is time to tell he to do his part. You will no longer accept mediocre behavior from him. Insensitivity is disrespect. It is time for you to take back your power and assert it. You deserve a man who is fully committed to healing this broken relationship.

I don't think I'd reprimand my children for not showing empathy; I'd teach them And I did and they do, but also because they could, having received love and And affection themselves. But my husband doesn't consciously let me teach him. isn't teaching empathy only part of it? If someone didn't get enough affection, validation, love himself, he can't give it. My husband has alluded to his mother's coldness when he was little, and I know that his older sisters were given the childcare duties.

 

He also was genetically cursed with extraordinary looks and virility (which doesn't translate to better sexual performance - just appetite btw). He got attention and privilege he didn't always deserve. For whatever reason, he's clueless that he's different and acts from a place of entitlement. He's been used to constant admiration and flattery and expects it, but doesn't get it from me for the same things.

 

Still, my theories why are meaningless. He should be in therapy to know for sure but doesn't see the need.

 

The other half of not being able to show empathy in his case (and maybe others) is that he can't stand the reminder that he caused the damage. I've read waywards' accusations that BSs bring up affair issues to intentionally hurt the WS. It's mind-blowing to me. That's a lack of empathy and they can't ALL have the same early childhood circumstances of my husband. All I can say for sure is that my pain shines a light on his shame, and he cannot get beyond that.

 

My husband doesn't go as far as some. He doesn't blame me for his infidelity; he always takes responsibility, says it's his problem and a lifelong one. He's always accepted responsibility.

 

Anyway, this is circular. Like some have said. This is it. Who he is. So I accept or suffer for my unmet need for understanding, communication and help when in need. So - yay! - we're back to the question: How do I get satisfaction, understanding and validation now? Well, 66 suggests S.L. and I deserve RAs and our spouses deserve this consequence. That's not happening. Can't. Won't.

 

It's becoming clear that coming to LS is too much work when, each time I have to climb this hurdle of judgment for having 'settled' in the first place. I can sort of understand everyone's frustration with it. The only way not to suffer is to get out of the situation.

 

So I'll just say this much about the why: I DO get validation and incredible joy from my family. And I LOVE the feeling of unity and satisfaction THEY feel from being whole and together. He is part of that and loves it, too. Taking him or anyone else out of it destroys the wholeness.

 

I feel like dropping this. It's what I've said before makes me feel ashamed and reluctant to discuss the particulars of our relationship here. It's gone nowhere as usual.

Edited March 27, 2016 by merrmeade

[LivingWaterPlease]

I don't think I'd reprimand my children for not showing empathy; I'd teach them And I did and they do, but also because they could, having received love and And affection themselves. But my husband doesn't consciously let me teach him. isn't teaching empathy only part of it? If someone didn't get enough affection, validation, love himself, he can't give it. My husband has alluded to his mother's coldness when he was little, and I know that his older sisters were given the childcare duties.

 

He also was genetically cursed with extraordinary looks and virility (which doesn't translate to better sexual performance - just appetite btw). He got attention and privilege he didn't always deserve. For whatever reason, he's clueless that he's different and acts from a place of entitlement. He's been used to constant admiration and flattery and expects it, but doesn't get it from me for the same things.

 

Still, my theories why are meaningless. He should be in therapy to know for sure but doesn't see the need.

 

The other half of not being able to show empathy in his case (and maybe others) is that he can't stand the reminder that he caused the damage. I've read waywards' accusations that BSs bring up affair issues to intentionally hurt the WS. It's mind-blowing to me. That's a lack of empathy and they can't ALL have the same early childhood circumstances of my husband. All I can say for sure is that my pain shines a light on his shame, and he cannot get beyond that.

 

My husband doesn't go as far as some. He doesn't blame me for his infidelity; he always takes responsibility, says it's his problem and a lifelong one. He's always accepted responsibility.

 

Anyway, this is circular. Like some have said. This is it. Who he is. So I accept or suffer for my unmet need for understanding, communication and help when in need. So - yay! - we're back to the question: How do I get satisfaction, understanding and validation now? Well, 66 suggests S.L. and I deserve RAs and our spouses deserve this consequence. That's not happening. Can't. Won't.

 

It's becoming clear that coming to LS is too much work when, each time I have to climb this hurdle of judgment for having 'settled' in the first place. I can sort of understand everyone's frustration with it. The only way not to suffer is to get out of the situation.

 

So I'll just say this much about the why: I DO get validation and incredible joy from my family. And I LOVE the feeling of unity and satisfaction THEY feel from being whole and together. He is part of that and loves it, too. Taking him or anyone else out of it destroys the wholeness.

 

I'll also share this recent surprise from my son. He says his son doesn't want to do things with my husband nowadays. I don't know what that is yet but have speculated maybe it's my husband's general inability to read anything but sexual attraction in other people.

 

I feel like dropping this. It's what I've said before makes me feel ashamed and reluctant to discuss the particulars of our relationship here. It's gone nowhere as usual.

 

merrmeade, my heart goes out to you. Though I'm not one of your regular responders I truly would like to see you have some support and satisfaction from your posts. You seem to be reaching out through your posts on LS and not receiving the type of support you'd like and that you feel would help you process your feelings and your journey.

 

Is that a fair assessment? If not, are you up to articulating what it is that would most help you from LS posters?

 

Possibly, you don't care to even answer that question if you are so weary of posting and of your situation at this point. I can understand that as processing and defending your position must be tiring, though you have felt the need to do so.

[merrmeade]

Thank you livingwater. Maybe I need to handle this myself.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I don't think I'd reprimand my children for not showing empathy; I'd teach them And I did and they do, but also because they could, having received love and And affection themselves. But my husband doesn't consciously let me teach him. isn't teaching empathy only part of it? If someone didn't get enough affection, validation, love himself, he can't give it. My husband has alluded to his mother's coldness when he was little, and I know that his older sisters were given the childcare duties.

 

He also was genetically cursed with extraordinary looks and virility (which doesn't translate to better sexual performance - just appetite btw). He got attention and privilege he didn't always deserve. For whatever reason, he's clueless that he's different and acts from a place of entitlement. He's been used to constant admiration and flattery and expects it, but doesn't get it from me for the same things.

 

Still, my theories why are meaningless. He should be in therapy to know for sure but doesn't see the need.

 

The other half of not being able to show empathy in his case (and maybe others) is that he can't stand the reminder that he caused the damage. I've read waywards' accusations that BSs bring up affair issues to intentionally hurt the WS. It's mind-blowing to me. That's a lack of empathy and they can't ALL have the same early childhood circumstances of my husband. All I can say for sure is that my pain shines a light on his shame, and he cannot get beyond that.

 

My husband doesn't go as far as some. He doesn't blame me for his infidelity; he always takes responsibility, says it's his problem and a lifelong one. He's always accepted responsibility.

 

Anyway, this is circular. Like some have said. This is it. Who he is. So I accept or suffer for my unmet need for understanding, communication and help when in need. So - yay! - we're back to the question: How do I get satisfaction, understanding and validation now? Well, 66 suggests S.L. and I deserve RAs and our spouses deserve this consequence. That's not happening. Can't. Won't.

 

It's becoming clear that coming to LS is too much work when, each time I have to climb this hurdle of judgment for having 'settled' in the first place. I can sort of understand everyone's frustration with it. The only way not to suffer is to get out of the situation.

 

So I'll just say this much about the why: I DO get validation and incredible joy from my family. And I LOVE the feeling of unity and satisfaction THEY feel from being whole and together. He is part of that and loves it, too. Taking him or anyone else out of it destroys the wholeness.

 

I feel like dropping this. It's what I've said before makes me feel ashamed and reluctant to discuss the particulars of our relationship here. It's gone nowhere as usual.

 

the part i have bolded...I want to address

 

For many years...I felt this way and I asked John over and over...why do you want to punish me? I think it is very common for Waywards to feel this way....until they understand remorse....because they are still concentrating on their own pain instead of the pain of the BS.

 

I never want you to think that anyone here doesn't respect you...or doesn't understand where you are coming from...and why you are where you are. I have utmost respect for you and I would never ever intentionally hurt you....I don't think I said anything insensitive....and if i did I apologize....I did read some posts that i thought were insensitive and i even apologize for those. Sometimes I think posters here are too blunt....and too insensitive...because they think it might be helpful.....their intentions are still good. I hope you know that.

 

I understand settling.....john settled for way too many years. I also understand never giving up hope....because i finally got it...and if i could...others can as well. There is nothing wrong with settling. Besides....none of us walk in your shoes.

[LivingWaterPlease]

Thank you livingwater. Maybe I need to handle this myself.

 

((((((((((merrmeade))))))))))

[waterwoman]

 

The other half of not being able to show empathy in his case (and maybe others) is that he can't stand the reminder that he caused the damage. I've read waywards' accusations that BSs bring up affair issues to intentionally hurt the WS. It's mind-blowing to me. That's a lack of empathy and they can't ALL have the same early childhood circumstances of my husband. All I can say for sure is that my pain shines a light on his shame, and he cannot get beyond that.

 

What he cannot get beyond is himself and his needs and feelings. To see and comprehend the suffering of someone else is too hard for anyone who isn't mature and when that suffering carries a stain of shame that is even more impossible. It's like trying to comfort someone whom you have just knocked over with a car by comparing the pain of your ingrown toe-nail. The need to be the good guy, the most hard-done by is all encompassing and the pesky BS keeps banging on about how hurt they are....

[merrmeade]

No seriously. I am touched by everyone's effort to respect my smart sounding excuses. And I think I thoroughly understand the wh issues at play and h's idiosyncrasies.

 

AND I did listen and am asking myself why I don't want more for myself. Maybe I'm good at protecting my own limitations. I'm good at sounding smart about it. That's another kind of denial and rationalization. It's hard to see yourself and really FEEL that it could be better and that I don't is a problem. I don't really believe it I think. Ridicule and pushing don't help.

 

That's why I can't get it here. That's something an online forum can't do - fix deep individual issues. I know, I know - the advice I give everyone else: therapy.

[Mrs. John Adams]

MM...you indeed know the best answer for you.

 

I have said so many times...I wish i had a magic potion betrayed spouses could feed their betrayed spouses to give them instantaneous remorse...but I don't.

 

We all keep plugging away....ALL of us. There is no one here who has a perfect relationship...a perfect marriage...a perfect divorce or a perfect reconciliation.

 

We just do the best we can and hope that along the journey we can show compassion and understanding to others walking the same path....and above all else...we can keep hope alive.

[heartwhole]

Can you find a way to make therapy work? Find a part time job to make some extra income? It sounds like it was really key for you before and you already have a therapist you like.

 

There's no perfect marriage and your reasons for staying are yours and yours alone. I think the important thing is to figure out how to make yourself happy in the life you have chosen. It sounds like your husband has reached the limit of his desire and willingness to grow and change, and so I think you work on accepting that and letting go of your wish that it could be different. It just won't be. That doesn't mean it has to be bad or unfulfilling.

 

Your husband's emotional immaturity and entitlement do limit what you can expect from him, but that can happen in any marriage. I am limited by a chronic illness and we both have to give up our vision of an ideal marriage where there are no physical constraints. But we can still find happiness within that framework. I think you should approach your marriage from this vantage point. Yes, you could find a new partner without these limitations, but the limitations themselves do not need to be a deal breaker so long as you are happy. And the key to your happiness lies with you. It would be great if you could focus on what makes you happy and how to accept and work with your husband's limitations in therapy, but if not, I hope that you can continue that work through introspection and journaling (and posting here if you wish -- take what you can use and leave the rest behind).

[katielee]

((Merrmeade))

I've actually found therapy to not be as helpful as reading books by experts, in particular, those by gottman and Beatty (hers focus on codependency)).

If you go in Amazon, some books you can view almost I their entirety using the "look inside" feature, especially the older books. There's also the public library, which may it may not have materials on what you need.

I also found online therapy to be ok - betterhelp.com at only $25 a pop.

[understand50]

merrmeade,

 

I read your string on Friday, and now can comment on it. First, thought is general about LS. The forum as a whole tends not to respect the decision of a BS to reconcile. The voices for divorce are loud, try and always bring you back to "So divorce them, it would be so much better" I know, as myself and others have, you have decided on reconciliation, and need advise and encouragement. I respect your decision, as I am of the opinion that it is much harder to reconcile then just divorce. I would hope that at some point, all others would also respect your decisions, and tailor their posts accordingly. For those voices that continue to not respect your decision, I would suggest, you just ignore them for the most part. I have stated that we are "just whispers on the internet" and you take what you need from us. (OBTW, I think you meant Driffter777, not Aliveagain in one of your posts. Aliveagain divorced, and Diffter777 has stayed because of his grandchildren.)

 

So, as I read it, your husband, would like nothing better then this to go away and you just to get over it. If you think about this, this is a normal response. Most, if not all, of us would like our mistakes and trespasses that we have done against others, just be forgiven and have no repercussions. Coupled with his issues of just not understanding the pain and suffering he has inflected, and we have you asking how you can:

 

1) Get him to understand what he really did, and show remorse, or at least understand it as far as possible for him your triggers, and why they still happen.

 

2) Have him prove somehow, that he has come clean with everything he has done.

 

For the first question, you have been blunt that he is just not the type who can or will do this. You knowing this, you still hope that he will have a break trough and someday understand. I do not think that this is going to happen, and you are going to have to learn to accept his limitations, or it is going to drive you nuts. How to do this? I can only tell you what works for me. In the first place, I just wish she had not had her ONS, and later spent us into the poor house, and lied to to me the whole time. That is not realistic, on my part. So we talk, we agree and we both follow up with our promises, and when I think, or have good cause I confront her, but in a controlled way, in our monthly "talks". Trust me, there have been plenty of hard things to discuss, but she knows I will not beat her up the rest of the month, and that We both expect truthful and honest talk.

 

I wonder if a more structured format for you both to discuss this and other things in the marriage may work out for you. Again, he does not want to talk and just move on, and you need to. How do we do this so both are happy and feel things moving along? You will both need to come to some means of doing this. He does need to accept this, while you are a really accommodating spouse, but at some point you may decide life is too short, and his time for action will have pasted. Also, you can not change him, but only change your actions towards him to give a better outcome. Is there some way of communicating with him, where you both feel safe? What about writing a letter to him and letting him know that you expect a real thought out reply? Mr. & Mrs. Winston Churchill, tended to do this, as he was such a good debater, Clemente felt she would rather write him her issues and opinions then talk to him. He would always win, and nothing would be settled. Leo Tolstoy, and wife would share and read each other diaries. They know what each other were thinking. I am just suggesting, there are other ways for you two to communicate. Talking may not be the best thing for you two.

 

As for the second question, do you really know all? I am afraid to tell you you do not, and never will. Your husband, no matter how hard he trys, will always edit. It is just part of the human condition. If he is holding back, only luck, or circumstances will bring new information out. Remember, he was very good at hiding things from you. I would ask you, what do you think you need to know past what you do? I would put some thought in to what you want, and they work to see if it can be uncovered. What you know maybe all there is, and from what you have wrote, I do not think more information will make any difference. Again, just my two cents.

 

I also want to ask you about your triggers. I know these are different for everyone, and the person who just says, "get over it" really has not had to put up with them. All I can say, is for myself, I acknowledge them when they happen, try and work out why I am feeling the way I do, and then move on, because in the long run, I have found that triggering does not add to the happiness of my life, or reflect on the love I have for my wife. She can not undo what she did, but I can make sure that the memories, do not affect my relationship right now. Maybe that is the key, I live for the here and now, my past issues, for the most part, have been addressed. When you trigger, maybe you should try and ask yourself why you are triggering and decide if you should let this affect you. I know, easier said then done, and I have had much more time to understand these things, but this works for me. I use it for all sorts of bad memories.

 

merrmeade, I only know you as a "whisper on the internet", but I hope for what is best for you. You had a long hard road, but I know you are a strong woman, and will in the end, overcome this. Keep reminding yourself the up side of your marriage, your kids, your grand kids, and yes the husband, who for all his faults, you have spent your life with. When I have been asked, why I am still married, I always point to the good times and love we share. I think your good times in your marriage, will help you trough the bad times. I know you have a good future ahead. Things will get better.

 

As always, I wish you luck.......

Edited March 28, 2016 by understand50

[dichotomy]

You need to change your thinking, focus on other things than your husband and marriage, things that make you stronger, things you like and love to do.

 

Learn to appreciate little things in life, accept the world just the way it is - it'll give you peace.

 

Some people call it detachment from the situation, and it really is a good thing.

 

 

 

Always good stuff from Zenstudent.

 

I struggled greatly after dDay, and leaving was an option, but not an option that would make me happier.

 

So while I did still keep trying to get her to provide things I needed from her (and she has gotten better in some things) - I eventually focused more on me. Yes it was a form of detachment - but in a way it was freeing to simply do the things I would like to do regardless of my WS. I got tired of focusing or hoping on things from her.

 

In some ways this meant I ended up feeling kind of like my WS was just a roommate,or co parent.... but I would say this detachment, or independent spirit, also helped my wife change more than if I was constantly harping/waiting/badgering/hoping for her to give me something I wanted. She has commented I have seemed more detached and independent and less loving towards her - but this is a hell of a lot better than her comments from years ago that i seemed needy and insecure after all the **** hit the fan from her lies and betrayals.

 

Other than having great sex with other women - I asked myself what would I do if I was divorced or single ... and went a head and pursued these things in life, while remaining married and still being a good parent.

Edited March 28, 2016 by dichotomy

[merrmeade]

What he cannot get beyond is himself and his needs and feelings. To see and comprehend the suffering of someone else is too hard for anyone who isn't mature and when that suffering carries a stain of shame that is even more impossible. It's like trying to comfort someone whom you have just knocked over with a car by comparing the pain of your ingrown toe-nail. The need to be the good guy, the most hard-done by is all encompassing and the pesky BS keeps banging on about how hurt they are....

Comparing the WS to someone with an ingrown toenail is just plain hilarious. All of it fits.

 

Many very helpful posts and carefully thought-out suggestions. I am grateful for the time spent.

 

To understand50:

Thank you for straightening me out about my confusion with aliveagain and dichotomy. It makes aa's post less hypocritical to me but still shallow and simplistic.

 

About the "second question" - getting the rest of the information from him: It's a reasonable assumption and I did have such an obsession—but no more. I've told him, too, that I don't believe he's told me everything and he never denies it, the sh-t. What I have is pretty damn disturbing, and I simply don't want more. I mean, I don't need for him to confirm that he had intercourse with my sister-in-law; his cockamamie story about the oral sex only is insulting nonsense. He can go to his f-king grave with it. I know without being told and have no interest in putting up with his dodging to massage more misdeeds from him. I hate the tricking and prodding required and will just let his karma eat him up.

 

I'm going to make a list of all the suggestions and see which I can implement.

 

Dichotomy, what kinds of things did you do? I already have a number of hobbies.

[66Charger]

You know we all care, even if we dont say the right things all the time.

[merrmeade]

I'm going to pin waterwoman's summary somewhere. It's a hilariously gratifying snapshop of WH's emotional profile.

[road]

Comparing the WS to someone with an ingrown toenail is just plain hilarious. All of it fits.

 

Many very helpful posts and carefully thought-out suggestions. I am grateful for the time spent.

 

To understand50:

Thank you for straightening me out about my confusion with aliveagain and dichotomy. It makes aa's post less hypocritical to me but still shallow and simplistic.

 

About the "second question" - getting the rest of the information from him: It's a reasonable assumption and I did have such an obsession—but no more. I've told him, too, that I don't believe he's told me everything and he never denies it, the sh-t. What I have is pretty damn disturbing, and I simply don't want more. I mean, I don't need for him to confirm that he had intercourse with my sister-in-law; his cockamamie story about the oral sex only is insulting nonsense. He can go to his f-king grave with it. I know without being told and have no interest in putting up with his dodging to massage more misdeeds from him. I hate the tricking and prodding required and will just let his karma eat him up.

 

I'm going to make a list of all the suggestions and see which I can implement.

 

Dichotomy, what kinds of things did you do? I already have a number of hobbies.

 

 

 

 

I think a problem is you not needing more details but you needing WH to be 100% honest.

 

 

Lack of total honesty is the sticking point for you.

[katielee]

this has been hard to read, especially Understand50's post, as it hits home for me as well.

I do not feel as if I know everything but I'm starting to feel differently about it. If someone feels they can't tell their spouse what needs to be told then I feel sorry for that person for not living an authentic life. We really have nothing else in this world other than our integrity. If one feels one must lie to be loved then how very sad that is.

 

I love the idea of writing to each other. Last night I tried to talk to hubby about a fight we had 6 weeks ago. I could not get my point across because I had to tread so delicately. I might try this method as our conflict comes with so much baggage and keeping the emotion out of it in writing might take some edge off.

 

But accepting limitations - that's why I hate the "your marriage can be better!" crap that some therapists spew - that has been the very surprising thing about all this. I think I can count on one hand the couples who got a better marriage out of the deal.

But I'm realistic like dichotomy. So I'd divorce? What would I get - a few moments of that new fall in love feeling that isn't even the real stuff with a guy who has other priorities (likely his own kids). I can't pursue any crazy wild independent hobby because I'm also a wayward wife and his safety comes first. But you could merrmeade - that detachment could really help you find yourself.

I wish you luck.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I think you have to come to a place of peace within yourself....and truly understand that you cannot change or control another person. It is hard enough to control yourself.

 

It may seem like "settling" to someone else...but i think the word "acceptance" sounds better.

 

I am resolved that John will forever trigger...I accept that I am responsible for it...I am committed to do my best to help him through it.

 

But I cannot make the triggers stop....I cannot make him trust me....I cannot make the damage I caused go away.

 

I accept it...because this is reality. I don't always like it...but it is what it is.

 

Real life has disappointments and sadness...real marriages have struggles...

 

infidelity is a part of our real life. I cannot change it.

 

I don't let it define who I am....but i accept it is a part of me that i cannot change. I strive to be the best me I can. I strive to be the best partner I can be. It is the best I can do.

 

He either has to accept me for who I am....broken...or he discards me and attempts to make a new life without me.

 

So...I think those of us affected by infidelity....must come to a place of acceptance. If you believe your spouse is doing the best they can....then you accept their brokenness....or you discard them.

 

Concentrate on improving the one person you can change....you. You can change your reaction to triggers...you can concentrate on the positive things your spouse does right....instead of the things they do wrong.

[ladydesigner]

Always good stuff from Zenstudent.

 

I struggled greatly after dDay, and leaving was an option, but not an option that would make me happier.

 

So while I did still keep trying to get her to provide things I needed from her (and she has gotten better in some things) - I eventually focused more on me. Yes it was a form of detachment - but in a way it was freeing to simply do the things I would like to do regardless of my WS. I got tired of focusing or hoping on things from her.

 

In some ways this meant I ended up feeling kind of like my WS was just a roommate,or co parent.... but I would say this detachment, or independent spirit, also helped my wife change more than if I was constantly harping/waiting/badgering/hoping for her to give me something I wanted. She has commented I have seemed more detached and independent and less loving towards her - but this is a hell of a lot better than her comments from years ago that i seemed needy and insecure after all the **** hit the fan from her lies and betrayals.

 

Other than having great sex with other women - I asked myself what would I do if I was divorced or single ... and went a head and pursued these things in life, while remaining married and still being a good parent.

 

This post x1000. This is exactly how I feel and what I have done. It's almost identical and my WH is responding the same way your wife is, although I have a feeling it won't be enough for him and eventually will stray again. My WH is very entitled and think he deserves attention from anyone and anything.

[katielee]

 

He either has to accept me for who I am....broken...or he discards me and attempts to make a new life without me.

 

.

 

The thing of it is, you aren't broken anymore. The OP's WS (and I guess many others' who have posted here) still are. And that makes me sad. Your husband sees you working hard and being remorseful. Others here just don't have that. It's a lot to accept. When these posters see how it COULD be I suppose its darn disappointing, and to stay they have to recreate themselves to allow for this reality. It makes me wanna give everybody a big hug.

[Mrs. John Adams]

We are far from perfect....and we have been at this 33 years. ....a lifetime.

 

You cannot expect to have in 11 months...in 6 years....in 10 years....what i have worked 33 years to have.

 

I offer hope that it can get better...but it will never be perfect. You will "never get over it". NEVER.

 

Sometimes I think the expectations are too high.

 

Marriage is complex...anyone married longer than 6 weeks knows that. So you take two imperfect people...and put them in an imperfect relationship. Now you destroy the relationship with infidelity...and you have to start over to rebuild....only now....the trust is gone...replaced by fear.

 

and Katielee....I am still broken. I try very very hard...and maybe other spouses do not work as hard as i have....but i am broken. I keep myself in very tight boundaries...complete transparency....and complete devotion. But i know what i was capable of.....and i was the most surprised of all. I was little miss goody two shoes...miss religion...miss perfect. I had no idea that i could be so vile and destructive and selfish.

 

Some waywards are not willing to put in all the work i have done....some are not capable of accomplishing what i have accomplished....so my point is this...

 

we are all different...and we have to be accepting of the effort our partner puts into the relationship. If you are satisfied that they have given all they are capable of giving....but they still don't give you all you want....then you have to make the decision to accept it or not. But keep in mind that perhaps you not only want more than they are capable of giving....but your expectations are not realistic..

[katielee]

And, whether he sees no need or is simply threatened, he has no interest in going to therapy to understand his personal issues better. Instead, he feels cornered and targeted when I bring up anything from the past and how it's affecting me now. He simply doesn't do deep self-analysis or think about what makes a good or bad marriage.

 

he says "yeah, I'm just a sh-t," leaves. discussion over.

 

 

 

I think here, after much infidelity, the BS deserves more than she's getting. This is not high expectations. It's one thing to recover from being betrayed. It's another to additionally have to accept a very limited recovery.

That acceptance can even be harder than the infidelity itself, IMO. Hugs to you merrmeade.

[understand50]

We are far from perfect....and we have been at this 33 years. ....a lifetime.

 

You cannot expect to have in 11 months...in 6 years....in 10 years....what i have worked 33 years to have.

 

I offer hope that it can get better...but it will never be perfect. You will "never get over it". NEVER.

 

Sometimes I think the expectations are too high.

 

Marriage is complex...anyone married longer than 6 weeks knows that. So you take two imperfect people...and put them in an imperfect relationship. Now you destroy the relationship with infidelity...and you have to start over to rebuild....only now....the trust is gone...replaced by fear.

 

and Katielee....I am still broken. I try very very hard...and maybe other spouses do not work as hard as i have....but i am broken. I keep myself in very tight boundaries...complete transparency....and complete devotion. But i know what i was capable of.....and i was the most surprised of all. I was little miss goody two shoes...miss religion...miss perfect. I had no idea that i could be so vile and destructive and selfish.

 

Some waywards are not willing to put in all the work i have done....some are not capable of accomplishing what i have accomplished....so my point is this...

 

we are all different...and we have to be accepting of the effort our partner puts into the relationship. If you are satisfied that they have given all they are capable of giving....but they still don't give you all you want....then you have to make the decision to accept it or not. But keep in mind that perhaps you not only want more than they are capable of giving....but your expectations are not realistic..

 

Mrs Adams, katielee, and merrmeade,

 

All of you are dealing with the fall out from different positions, and also I think need to give yourselves some credit. We all are broken down by life, but by going forward on our own terms, we overcome. Abigail, you did a bad thing a long time ago, John loves you, you have a good marriage and relationship. Give yourself, and John, the credit for surviving, what makes many marriages fail. This is a huge accomplishment. Yes, you would rather you have not done this, but both you and John have come out of it together and loving each other. Enjoy what you both have both earned. I will add that from your posts, you are enjoying life with each other, but what ever was broken years ago, you fixed.

 

Katielee, you have both betrayed, and have been betrayed on. You are still married, and still working at living with and loving your husband. Yes, there will still be bad time ahead, but I think, there will be more good times and a lifetime of love and affection between you and your husband. Both you and Abigail, have had, and do have the courage to stand up and face what you did, and show remorse. Again, give yourself some credit, build on what has been accomplished. Katielee, you also know the pain of being betrayed, but this has not stopped you from trying to live a better life and be a better wife. All I am saying to to keep things in perspective. Is your life better today then say a year ago? Look at what you have, and try and see the good in it.

 

Merrmeade, you are the toughest, as your husbands betrayal, was so outrageous, and his inability to know and show remorse is hard. BUT, you still have you family, kids and grand kids. Your husband is with you. At this point, I would look for the good in this situation, and try and understand him. I think what you have, is all you are going to get, or at least it is going to take much more time, maybe longer then you both have. Remember, that both Abigail and my wife were young, when they trespassed, so they had time to find themselves and really understand what they had done. He just may not have time to understand, nor may he have the ability or will too. I guess it come down to what Mrs Adams has stated above, sometime we need to accept what is. Remember, he is who he is, and this is the man you fell in love with. He cannot change, but you both can have a loving good life going forward.

 

My two cents, and forgive me if I have stepped out of bounds.

 

As always, I wish the three of you good luck......

[Mrs. John Adams]

I agree...his remark was purely selfish and he said it for effect and he got exactly what he set out to get. He made her shut up. He did not fight fair.

 

I will be the first to say Meremeade's husband need a shaking until his teeth rattle.

 

HOWEVER

 

She has said over and over...he is not capable of giving me everything i need or want. I know this....I don't like it but i am not going to divorce him.

 

OK...these are the facts. She knows he cannot.... she knows he will not...and she will not divorce him.

 

So what happens now? She has made the decision she will not leave him. SOOOO the only choice she has is to accept him just the way he is. She can still hope...she can still work toward healing. But she cannot change him...only he can do that and he has to be WILLING to do so.

 

She can learn to control her reactions to the triggers...she can continue to work on herself.

 

It sucks....I am the first to agree it sucks...it is not fair...it is not what she signed up for....but it is what it is.

 

She accepts it....and she settles. Her glass is half full...or her glass is half empty. She can control her own attitude.

 

For you katielee...this may not be acceptable.....for john this may not be acceptable....

 

but Meremeade has said ...it is acceptable. WE can all hope her situation improves....but I fear....she knows it is what it is going to be.

[velvette]

The thing of it is, you aren't broken anymore. The OP's WS (and I guess many others' who have posted here) still are. And that makes me sad. Your husband sees you working hard and being remorseful. Others here just don't have that. It's a lot to accept. When these posters see how it COULD be I suppose its darn disappointing, and to stay they have to recreate themselves to allow for this reality. It makes me wanna give everybody a big hug.

 

First, comparing how Mrs. JA expresses/processes remorse to how a man would is an exercise in futility, just because of the gender difference. Sure, there are men that are emotive and expressive, but especially in this age range, they are the exception. I believe I read somewhere recently, that men have the capacity for about 75 words worth of discussion per day before they are mentally exhausted. Probably even less if its a topic they find distressing. Our brains are different.

 

 

So, unless you are married to a man who is the exception, or some sort of metrosexual man who is overly emotional for a man, you are not getting unlimited hours of emotional discussion from him. Clearly, Mermeades husband was probably always the way he is and she knew that from the start. To expect him to morph overnight just because he cheated is unrealistic.

 

 

I am going to suggest that in order to get remorse expressed verbally day after day, you probably would need to be married to a man you don't want to be married to and never would have chosen in the first place.

 

 

I would look instead to what he does. You are more likely to find his expressions of remorse in what he does rather than what he says.

 

 

If that's not enough, then you need to make deep discussions more tolerable for him, by having them about more neutral subjects to start with and timing them to when he feels more vulnerable/loving, which is after making love, which Mermeade ironically closed off because she was feeling hurt. Have sex........talk gently about what is bothering you and what you would like for him to do to help you. Keep it simple/short.

 

 

Use LS, a girlfriend, or a therapist to drone on and on about emotional stuff.

 

 

And, honestly, I challenge most women to think long and hard about whether or not they would be willing to listen to this stuff and "be" remorseful day after day for years on end. I know I wouldn't no matter what I did. So, again, I'm going to suggest that maybe Mrs. JA is an exception even for women.