Update after .. 10+ years!

[sandylee1]

I was about to write something about this. You took the words right out of my mouth. Just looking at the top threads in this thread sub area, and already there are 3 sexless marriage posts. I feel bad for these guys as I don't think the prognosis is very good.

 

I cam across this which confirms some of my suspicions: The Night I Gave My Husband a Free Pass Scary Mommy

 

That's an interesting article ..... wouldn't it be quite something if they could invent pills to increase the female libido☺

 

I must say having kids really does change a lot in that department.

 

A friend of mine who had a baby around 6 or 8 months.. was talking about her H wanting to have sex. The baby was having a nap and at a point started to wake up... her reaction was to get up and go and check on the baby. .. but her H says.. just leave her, she'll stop crying soon.

 

That maternal feeling kicks in and you feel that you have to make sure everything is in order (kids/chores) before you feel relaxed enough to want to have sex.

 

That said. ... one spouse withholding sex is going to be a problem and not recognising that is very foolish. Like you LadyJ, when women haven't been physical with their husband for years .... notwithstanding a medical condition, then seem suprised he's cheated.. I just shake my head.

 

One BW said her husband just came straight out and said he had a GF and was leaving her. In her post she said "I knew we hadn't been having sex, but thought we'd get back on track when the kids left home " Again.... The mind boggles at this kind of thinking.

 

I was talking to one WH and he said after so much rejection from his wife, he thought it was him. That he wasn't attractive to her or that he wasn't good in bed. So when he had an A, he felt validated and and in a way vindicated that it wasn't him.

 

After a while.... after so much rejection he decided he never wanted to have sex with her again.

 

I don't agree that cheating is the answer, but you can't enforce celibacy on your spouse.

[ShatteredLady]

Do other women experience sexual rejection from their H's?

 

This is so embarrassing!

 

This is the sort of private & personal that I don't usually share. When my H feels fat, stressed or depressed he doesn't feel sexual. I can't be the only woman who experiences this 'the other way around'.

 

I think I know how men feel. Even when he explains the "It's not you, it's me" I feel so unloved. It makes me desperately insecure about myself. I've even worn long trousers in summer when I've been size 0 because of comments he's made.

 

He won't get naked when he feels fat. He won't even take the kids to the pool etc. He would NEVER go shirtless in public, around the pool.. even with my friends H who's about 300lbs!

 

Is a low sex marriage really something that only men experience usually or do women not talk about it? Is it not such a big deal to most women?

 

When men say they're frustrated & in a sexless marriage are they trying to initiate regularly? Are they trying, asking, talking about it?....or do they go through long stretches of not wanting sex & then suddenly do & don't understand why their wives aren't all over them?

 

Rejection makes me so insecure that I'm scared to initiate to be honest. Is that how men feel? Are many sexless/low sex marriages 2 people who would like to have a confident sexual relationship but BOTH don't anymore because both think the other doesn't want to?

 

I always say sex is a habit. The more you do it the more you want to.

[dreamingoftigers]

Do other women experience sexual rejection from their H's?

 

This is so embarrassing!

 

This is the sort of private & personal that I don't usually share. When my H feels fat, stressed or depressed he doesn't feel sexual. I can't be the only woman who experiences this 'the other way around'.

 

I think I know how men feel. Even when he explains the "It's not you, it's me" I feel so unloved. It makes me desperately insecure about myself. I've even worn long trousers in summer when I've been size 0 because of comments he's made.

 

He won't get naked when he feels fat. He won't even take the kids to the pool etc. He would NEVER go shirtless in public, around the pool.. even with my friends H who's about 300lbs!

 

Is a low sex marriage really something that only men experience usually or do women not talk about it? Is it not such a big deal to most women?

 

When men say they're frustrated & in a sexless marriage are they trying to initiate regularly? Are they trying, asking, talking about it?....or do they go through long stretches of not wanting sex & then suddenly do & don't understand why their wives aren't all over them?

 

Rejection makes me so insecure that I'm scared to initiate to be honest. Is that how men feel? Are many sexless/low sex marriages 2 people who would like to have a confident sexual relationship but BOTH don't anymore because both think the other doesn't want to?

 

I always say sex is a habit. The more you do it the more you want to.

 

I have it the other way around.

 

I know that men tend to be publicly recognized as "the gender that needs sex" blah blah but my marriage is the total opposite.

 

It's EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING.

 

He's the one worrying about / laundry / kid / work / whatever before he's comfortable enough to be intimate.

 

And yes, he has some body image issues + putting on fifty lbs since slipping a disc.

 

It's an uphill battle. I heavily resent it and have thought about cheating just to have an outlet, SOME KIND of acceptance and romance and maybe SOMEONE SOMEWHERE look at me like I have anything, no matter HOW TRVIAL be a desirable quality about me.

 

I think I've grown to slowly accept that he isn't like that anymore. Whatever we had when we were younger dissipated with his infidelity, and the adult him that grew up after just isn't going to connect with me on that level, or even "get it."

 

So, what now? I'm not willing to blow up our lives. I'm not willing to have some BS cliche affair. I guess my hand and my imagination will have to do. I mean, heck, I'm nine months pregnant. With his son. I can barely get off right now anyway. At least after the birth I won't feel like it for awhile.....

[Ladyjane14]

I've got a friend who wants more sex than her husband too. It's not always the wife who's holding out. The difference would seem that most women in that situation, even while feeling frustrated and insecure, don't stop loving their husbands or take it as some kind of personal attack. They seem better equipped to empathize. Even when very hurt and angry, it's rarely a deal breaker.

 

I read somewhere recently that as couples age, it's actually more typical for the man to be the hold-out in sexless couples.

[LivingWaterPlease]

I was about to write something about this. You took the words right out of my mouth. Just looking at the top threads in this thread sub area, and already there are 3 sexless marriage posts. I feel bad for these guys as I don't think the prognosis is very good.

 

 

I notice this, too, Hard2Think. I read about sexless marriages often on the infidelity threads of LS, but just let a poster on the OW/OM thread claim their AP is in a sexless M and the naysayers will claim it couldn't be possible.

 

From what I've seen and heard over the years, there are plenty of M with little or no sex in them.

 

Just read posts by DOT, LadyJane, Shattered about H's with low sex drives. Although I'm single, I don't think I'd stay in a marriage with a man who isn't interested in having a sexual relationship. I'd stay friends with him and find someone who wants to be married.

Edited April 11, 2016 by LivingWaterPlease

[ShatteredLady]

DOT. Not to make excuses for your H (OMG I'm actually programmed to make excuses for people aren't I? Bloody hell!!!) I know what you're saying (oh do I know!!) but bad backs frequently cause all kinds of sexual problems for men as do the medications.

 

I'm sorry. And thank you for sharing. I'm not the only woman in the world who isn't wanted!

[LivingWaterPlease]

I'm not the only woman in the world who isn't wanted!

 

 

Shattered, I am so sorry for what you're going through. I hope you realize you are wanted greatly by God, even if your marriage has some issues right now.

 

I don't know of your beliefs, and I'm not trying to push my own beliefs on you, but God has been amazing to make me feel literally gorgeous and desirable after having experienced failure in my M. I believe He can do it for any woman (or man!).

[Mr. Lucky]

I've got a friend who wants more sex than her husband too. It's not always the wife who's holding out. The difference would seem that most women in that situation, even while feeling frustrated and insecure, don't stop loving their husbands or take it as some kind of personal attack. They seem better equipped to empathize. Even when very hurt and angry, it's rarely a deal breaker.

 

Wow LJ, rare day when I disagree with you twice. But from what I've read here and seen personally (a family member who confided in me and whose H ironically cheated on her), can't see how the effect would be any different for women with a LD partner.

 

And the deal breaker aspect often depends on other issues such as support for themselves and dependent children. A man may have more - or less complicated - options in this regard...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Hard2Think]

What was it about that article that freaked you out?

 

I wasn't freaked out. But I think this woman articulated her feelings rather credibly. She says she loves her husband and the marriage she's in bur wants nothing to do with the sex part despite the fact that she understands perfectly what that means to her husband. I also think she did a good job of explaining why forcing herself to have sex is such a bad idea.

 

If my wife wrote that piece, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised (except for the "free pass" part, of course).

[Mr. Lucky]

How have the two weeks or so that you've been staying in the other town gone? Have you gone back to visit your wife or she come to see you?

 

Mr. Lucky

[dreamingoftigers]

DOT. Not to make excuses for your H (OMG I'm actually programmed to make excuses for people aren't I? Bloody hell!!!) I know what you're saying (oh do I know!!) but bad backs frequently cause all kinds of sexual problems for men as do the medications.

 

I'm sorry. And thank you for sharing. I'm not the only woman in the world who isn't wanted!

 

Actually, it's improved since he screwed his back up. (I know eh?)

 

We (ahem, HE) had other issues prior to that and he was the one cheating as well. Lots of therapy later..... he's stopped with the cheating, stopped drinking, better coping skills, still LOW intimacy but better.

 

These things didn't become apparent until we had our first child seven years ago. We had already been married awhile and I think most of it was him freaking out over becoming a Dad. Then he really loved being a Dad (this was a plan we made together as well, but we didn't think it would happen until our 30s). But he really just didn't do well under pressure at all, and changing life and lifestyle etc. We used to have a LOT of freedom before becoming parents. We would literally decide on Friday that we wanted to drive across the country and then we would be in Ontario by Tuesday. Because..... we wanted to. That all changed.

 

TBH, after he slipped a disc about a year and a half ago, his attitude toward what he had changed and he put a lot more into our marriage than he had since before his infidelity. Plus, he didn't think that he would be able to walk again (he couldn't walk at first for awhile). So after that, he got the ability to walk back. And other things. I used to say "if I knew he would be this nice after an injury, I would've pushed him down the stairs years ago." (Joking of course, he thought it was pretty funny).

[dreamingoftigers]

DOT. Not to make excuses for your H (OMG I'm actually programmed to make excuses for people aren't I? Bloody hell!!!) I know what you're saying (oh do I know!!) but bad backs frequently cause all kinds of sexual problems for men as do the medications.

 

I'm sorry. And thank you for sharing. I'm not the only woman in the world who isn't wanted!

 

I know what you mean. Everywhere you look and hear about "oh all a girl needs to do is say 'hi' and guys fall all over her" or whatever dumb rhetoric.

Or we here about these "oversexed animal" husbands.

 

Then we are home with the remote-warrior who just can't be bothered. Yeah, it's like every other woman in the world is part of this Desirable Club and I am stuck out here searching my purse for the umpteenth time trying to dig out my membership card and can't find it anywhere.

 

The only reason I got pregnant was because my husband came home loaded (right before he quit altogether) and wanted to get it on. Nice.

[Ladyjane14]

Wow LJ, rare day when I disagree with you twice. But from what I've read here and seen personally (a family member who confided in me and whose H ironically cheated on her), can't see how the effect would be any different for women with a LD partner.

 

And the deal breaker aspect often depends on other issues such as support for themselves and dependent children. A man may have more - or less complicated - options in this regard...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

You might be right. It might be as simple as what H2T said earlier... "I wanted a girlfriend".

 

My friend hasn't cheated or left though. The two ladies posting similar stories haven't cheated or left, not even after infidelity on their husbands' part.

 

As disheartening as it might be... the motivating factor might have less to do with not getting it just exactly as you want it at home, and more about simply wanting some 'strange'. Not a real good reason to destroy somebody you've lived with for twenty or thirty years, but maybe it's just that simple.

 

Like I said earlier, I'm not talking about marriages where the wife has decided she doesn't want sex anymore, period. I'm talking about the natural ups and downs of libido, and more specifically about how even making a concerted effort isn't good enough once a man has decided to interpret that as a negative.

 

Perhaps the reason he interprets that as a negative is that he simply wants to know what it's like to **** somebody else. Maybe it's less to do with "feeling" loved, wanted, appreciated... and more to do with finding an excuse for variety?

[sandylee1]

SL and DOT,

 

What amazes me a little is that both your husbands had affairs, yet they have the low sex drives. Was it an ego boost?

 

H2T

 

What you said about the radio show host reminds me of a wedding I went to..... where the Priest said to the Bride never to deny the Groom sex or that would lead to problems like him 'staying late at the office'

 

Apparently there was a trial of testosterone pills to increase the female libido, but side effects included a deep voice and hairiness, so you can understand why they pulled it.

[Hard2Think]

You might be right. It might be as simple as what H2T said earlier... "I wanted a girlfriend".

 

My friend hasn't cheated or left though. The two ladies posting similar stories haven't cheated or left, not even after infidelity on their husbands' part.

 

As disheartening as it might be... the motivating factor might have less to do with not getting it just exactly as you want it at home, and more about simply wanting some 'strange'. Not a real good reason to destroy somebody you've lived with for twenty or thirty years, but maybe it's just that simple.

 

Like I said earlier, I'm not talking about marriages where the wife has decided she doesn't want sex anymore, period. I'm talking about the natural ups and downs of libido, and more specifically about how even making a concerted effort isn't good enough once a man has decided to interpret that as a negative.

 

Perhaps the reason he interprets that as a negative is that he simply wants to know what it's like to **** somebody else. Maybe it's less to do with "feeling" loved, wanted, appreciated... and more to do with finding an excuse for variety?

 

I notice you refer to the "natural fluctuation of libido". Are you not running the risk of minimizing the problem? In my mind that would be maybe a lull once or twice a month at most. Once it becomes the status quo for years on end and we're talking about a different animal altogether. That's the difference between a man who is in between jobs for a couple of weeks and a guy that hasn't worked in a decade.

 

Obviously we have too wide a spectrum for that. Of course there are guys that cheat on wonderful wives. Why they do it is beyond me. Maybe it is the search for strange as you say. There are guys who love to visit hookers. I have no moral issue with that, but I don't get what satisfaction one really gets from that. Others I guess will never cheat on their wives no matter what, even if the face of sexlessness. Why? I can't even begin to guess. There are guys who visit transexuals. Why? Beats me.

 

That said, I think it's all too tempting to find a way to lump all situations together into one: "It doesn't matter what I do, he's going to cheat anyway".

One of my own truisms back in the day was that my W needed to make more of an effort for me because I was doing so much for her.

 

I don't think that anymore. That's because I understand now that it wasn't a matter of effort or no effort. Having sex with your spouse should not be an unpleasant effort. For me, it takes any pleasure out of it that she maybe can't wait til I'm done. In fact, that's precisely the reason I don't visit call girls. I think my wife has the right not to be turned on by what she sees in front of her. I may not like it, but it is her call and I should abide by her decision. I think that she should be honest with me in that case and not pretend things are normal and that the problem is with me, or that I'm making up excuses to "get some strange".

[Hard2Think]

SL and DOT,

 

What amazes me a little is that both your husbands had affairs, yet they have the low sex drives. Was it an ego boost?

 

H2T

 

What you said about the radio show host reminds me of a wedding I went to..... where the Priest said to the Bride never to deny the Groom sex or that would lead to problems like him 'staying late at the office'

 

Apparently there was a trial of testosterone pills to increase the female libido, but side effects included a deep voice and hairiness, so you can understand why they pulled it.

I'd be against a woman taking a pill to boost libido. Like I said before, it's her right not to be turned on by what's available to her. Better she find someone she is attracted to.

[Hard2Think]

How have the two weeks or so that you've been staying in the other town gone? Have you gone back to visit your wife or she come to see you?

 

Mr. Lucky

I'm enjoying my time here. I sure like coming home on Friday afternoon and not have to start a long commute back. Instead I met up with some people after work and had a few cocktails.

 

No she hasn't come over. I don't expect she will anytime in the near future. We've had quite a few phone conversations. She was very indignant last week, but for whatever reason, she did a complete turn around since yesterday and has been very sweet.

[Scrivdog]

Well, well, well - what have we here, ladies and gents? Absolutely amazing to see this thread in this here loveboard. After refreshing my memory with the old thread and reading this new thread I gather you're making the following points:

 

1) A wife that doesn't want sex now won't want sex later and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.

 

Did I miss anything?

 

Also I see the no-sex marriage threads still haven't gone out of style, either. Take heed and see this thread as a warning, gentlemen. Take heed!

 

Ladies, take a close look - this is what the end of the road looks like. Black and white. Take that one to the bank.

[Scrivdog]

I remember a woman about ten years ago, who posted in the divorce forum, shocked because her husband had left her for a coworker. When I asked her how long it had been since she'd been withholding sex, it turned out to be a YEAR! And yet, she was totally surprised that he had abandoned the home and wanted a divorce.

 

I think even when women do understand the physiological/emotional dynamics of sexual bonding, what they don't understand is why making an effort isn't enough. (????) What I don't get is how having those tough, educational conversations is somehow more daunting than throwing in the towel altogether. Is it because men tend to flood (become emotionally overwhelmed) at the perception of rejection?

I'm sorry, but if they don't get that a year of no sex is going to make them single again, they're not going to get anything else. They're just not smart enough to be married.

[sandylee1]

I'd be against a woman taking a pill to boost libido. Like I said before, it's her right not to be turned on by what's available to her. Better she find someone she is attracted to.

 

It's not necessarily a case of not being attracted to your partner. You may very well be attracted to them... but just not feel like having sex.

 

It's a bit like exercising...... you feel so much better when you've done your workout, but you might procastinate getting yourself up to go.

[Mr. Lucky]

No she hasn't come over. I don't expect she will anytime in the near future. We've had quite a few phone conversations. She was very indignant last week, but for whatever reason, she did a complete turn around since yesterday and has been very sweet.

 

I'd guess once she determined you wouldn't be cowed by her anger she's switched to a different tactic.

 

Have you set any timeline for yourself in terms of keeping both residences, etc ?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Ladyjane14]

I notice you refer to the "natural fluctuation of libido". Are you not running the risk of minimizing the problem? In my mind that would be maybe a lull once or twice a month at most. Once it becomes the status quo for years on end and we're talking about a different animal altogether. That's the difference between a man who is in between jobs for a couple of weeks and a guy that hasn't worked in a decade.

 

Obviously we have too wide a spectrum for that. Of course there are guys that cheat on wonderful wives. Why they do it is beyond me. Maybe it is the search for strange as you say. There are guys who love to visit hookers. I have no moral issue with that, but I don't get what satisfaction one really gets from that. Others I guess will never cheat on their wives no matter what, even if the face of sexlessness. Why? I can't even begin to guess. There are guys who visit transexuals. Why? Beats me.

 

That said, I think it's all too tempting to find a way to lump all situations together into one: "It doesn't matter what I do, he's going to cheat anyway".

One of my own truisms back in the day was that my W needed to make more of an effort for me because I was doing so much for her.

 

I don't think that anymore. That's because I understand now that it wasn't a matter of effort or no effort. Having sex with your spouse should not be an unpleasant effort. For me, it takes any pleasure out of it that she maybe can't wait til I'm done. In fact, that's precisely the reason I don't visit call girls. I think my wife has the right not to be turned on by what she sees in front of her. I may not like it, but it is her call and I should abide by her decision. I think that she should be honest with me in that case and not pretend things are normal and that the problem is with me, or that I'm making up excuses to "get some strange".

 

I think you're right that there's no one-size-fits-all solution. And don't get me wrong, this isn't any kind of effort to influence you. What I'm trying to do is to is understand how repair efforts fail and why previous dynamics seem to reassert themselves with such ease.

 

Now, I do think that your expectations regarding the length of "natural fluctuations" is an underestimate, but then again you've never been a food source for a little human being either... or any of the other myriad examples of how a woman's libido is affected by life. But it's neither here nor there in terms of decision-making. You seem pretty comfortable with your choice.

 

I'm just looking for information as to where the pitfalls are... picking your brain as it were. The part I'm having the toughest part wrapping my mind around is why your wife's efforts weren't accepted as loving gestures. I mean, if she burnt your toast at breakfast, you wouldn't assume it's because she doesn't love you. She made you imperfect toast.. but she got up off her ass, went to the kitchen, and made you toast. Small example, but you get the gist.

[ShatteredLady]

"I notice you refer to the "natural fluctuation of libido". Are you not running the risk of minimizing the problem? In my mind that would be maybe a lull once or twice a month at most."

 

I wanted to comment on this too. No! It's not like that. When you're young & dating then yes, time of the month, PMS etc can cause the kind of libido fluctuations that you're talking about.

 

Medications, even birth control can wipe-out a woman's libido. Any hormonal changes (that's why I always recommend SPECIALIST testing if a woman finds her H attractive but just hates the idea of sex).

 

Children!!! Oh pretty much everything about that either makes you incredibly horney or so very turned off! Breast feeding naturally kills libido (to avoid further pregnancy) being grabbed on all day, sleep deprivation, stress etc....to be honest I'd of done pretty much anything for another hours sleep most days when mine were newborns!! (That's where gentle loving & being an involved father/H REALLY helps!)

 

Stress & anxiety can change hormonal balance AND obviously effect libido.

 

Age. We all know about pre-menopause, menopause, pain & medications.

 

See, "once or twice a month" isn't realistic! Women's (& men's I believe, particularly with age) libidos are far more complex. There might be women who have ALWAYS been good to go everyday of their lives but I'm yet to meet one.

 

If you're going to be resentful & dump any woman who looses her libido sometimes then long term relationships, marriage & monogamy just isn't for you! I believe it's not realistic to say "I don't want duty sex, repetitive or quickies AND I will NEVER tolerate low libido". Even hookers aren't really into it! Your only real option is changing partners regularly. How romantic!!

[bathtub-row]

Well, well, well - what have we here, ladies and gents? Absolutely amazing to see this thread in this here loveboard. After refreshing my memory with the old thread and reading this new thread I gather you're making the following points:

 

1) A wife that doesn't want sex now won't want sex later and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.

 

Did I miss anything?

 

Also I see the no-sex marriage threads still haven't gone out of style, either. Take heed and see this thread as a warning, gentlemen. Take heed!

 

Ladies, take a close look - this is what the end of the road looks like. Black and white. Take that one to the bank.

 

Anen. I'm so tired of listening to the defense of people who think it's ok to deprive their spouse of a sex life, year after year. This topic comes up over and over again. It seems that a lot of people just want a roommate, not a spouse.

[bathtub-row]

I'd guess once she determined you wouldn't be cowed by her anger she's switched to a different tactic.

 

Have you set any timeline for yourself in terms of keeping both residences, etc ?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

The truth is, I don't think it would matter what she did at this point. Too much water under the bridge.