Update after .. 10+ years!

[Mr. Lucky]

If you're going to be resentful & dump any woman who looses her libido sometimes then long term relationships, marriage & monogamy just isn't for you!

 

The OP has struggled with this issue and his wife's lack of desire for 10 years or more. That moves the lost libido from sometimes to all the time...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Hard2Think]

I think you're right that there's no one-size-fits-all solution. And don't get me wrong, this isn't any kind of effort to influence you. What I'm trying to do is to is understand how repair efforts fail and why previous dynamics seem to reassert themselves with such ease.

 

Now, I do think that your expectations regarding the length of "natural fluctuations" is an underestimate, but then again you've never been a food source for a little human being either... or any of the other myriad examples of how a woman's libido is affected by life. But it's neither here nor there in terms of decision-making. You seem pretty comfortable with your choice.

 

I'm just looking for information as to where the pitfalls are... picking your brain as it were. The part I'm having the toughest part wrapping my mind around is why your wife's efforts weren't accepted as loving gestures. I mean, if she burnt your toast at breakfast, you wouldn't assume it's because she doesn't love you. She made you imperfect toast.. but she got up off her ass, went to the kitchen, and made you toast. Small example, but you get the gist.

Ok well first of all, the having small children thing is all well and good. But for one, the issues didn't occur back then. The sex did drop off a bit back when the children were babies of course, but I didn't think anything of it. It was understandable. But my youngest is 19. I think that stopped being a credible excuse a looong time ago.

 

Burning the toast is an accident. Hell, maybe she tried her best but she just doesn't know how. That would be fine. It would be more like this: she used to make great breakfasts every morning. Then she stopped. Then she gets upset that I went to a diner to get breakfast on the days I don't want to make it myself. Then she promises to make those great breakfasts again. Instead all she manages is burnt toast. I see it as a sign that she hates making breafast. And if hates making it that much I'd just as soon not obligate her to make it. I sure as hell don't want burnt toast. And if I mention that she used to make great breakfasts before and why is it burnt toast every time, she replies that I'm never happy.

 

The mistake is that I pressured her too much and and made too much of a big deal out of it. As a resulkt I believe she felt she had to have sex or it would become an issue again. And so she does the bare minimum to avoid a hassle. I regret putting her in that position. If she didn't want to have sex, she shouldn't. Unlike making toast, it's just not one of things you want to have your partner feel like they have to do.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Hard2Think

[Hard2Think]

Well, well, well - what have we here, ladies and gents? Absolutely amazing to see this thread in this here loveboard. After refreshing my memory with the old thread and reading this new thread I gather you're making the following points:

 

1) A wife that doesn't want sex now won't want sex later and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.

 

Did I miss anything?

 

Also I see the no-sex marriage threads still haven't gone out of style, either. Take heed and see this thread as a warning, gentlemen. Take heed!

 

Ladies, take a close look - this is what the end of the road looks like. Black and white. Take that one to the bank.

I'd say that isn't the only thing I'm saying, but that is a big take-away, yes.

[Hard2Think]

"I notice you refer to the "natural fluctuation of libido". Are you not running the risk of minimizing the problem? In my mind that would be maybe a lull once or twice a month at most."

 

I wanted to comment on this too. No! It's not like that. When you're young & dating then yes, time of the month, PMS etc can cause the kind of libido fluctuations that you're talking about.

 

Medications, even birth control can wipe-out a woman's libido. Any hormonal changes (that's why I always recommend SPECIALIST testing if a woman finds her H attractive but just hates the idea of sex).

 

Children!!! Oh pretty much everything about that either makes you incredibly horney or so very turned off! Breast feeding naturally kills libido (to avoid further pregnancy) being grabbed on all day, sleep deprivation, stress etc....to be honest I'd of done pretty much anything for another hours sleep most days when mine were newborns!! (That's where gentle loving & being an involved father/H REALLY helps!)

 

Stress & anxiety can change hormonal balance AND obviously effect libido.

 

Age. We all know about pre-menopause, menopause, pain & medications.

 

See, "once or twice a month" isn't realistic! Women's (& men's I believe, particularly with age) libidos are far more complex. There might be women who have ALWAYS been good to go everyday of their lives but I'm yet to meet one.

 

If you're going to be resentful & dump any woman who looses her libido sometimes then long term relationships, marriage & monogamy just isn't for you! I believe it's not realistic to say "I don't want duty sex, repetitive or quickies AND I will NEVER tolerate low libido". Even hookers aren't really into it! Your only real option is changing partners regularly. How romantic!!

You seem to imply that there's a problem if she isn't "good to go every day". I never said that. I never suggested that. I doubt even I'd be ready to go every day either. This is not about having a dry spell that occasionally happens particularly in a stressful situation. This is about a dry spell that goes on over years. Maybe not completely dry, but very sparse.

 

You seem to think it' perfectly normal an natural for this to happen. That if a husband isn't willing to go for weeks or months without sexual contact on a regular basis, then he shouldn't get married.

 

You know, I think I'm inclined to agree with you

[Ladyjane14]

Ok well first of all, the having small children thing is all well and good. But for one, the issues didn't occur back then. The sex did drop off a bit back when the children were babies of course, but I didn't think anything of it. It was understandable. But my youngest is 19. I think that stopped being a credible excuse a looong time ago.

 

Burning the toast is an accident. Hell, maybe she tried her best but she just doesn't know how. That would be fine. It would be more like this: she used to make great breakfasts every morning. Then she stopped. Then she gets upset that I went to a diner to get breakfast on the days I don't want to make it myself. Then she promises to make those great breakfasts again. Instead all she manages is burnt toast. I see it as a sign that she hates making breafast. And if hates making it that much I'd just as soon not obligate her to make it. I sure as hell don't want burnt toast. And if I mention that she used to make great breakfasts before and why is it burnt toast every time, she replies that I'm never happy.

The mistake is that I pressured her too much and and made too much of a big deal out of it. As a resulkt I believe she felt she had to have sex or it would become an issue again. And so she does the bare minimum to avoid a hassle. I regret putting her in that position. If she didn't want to have sex, she shouldn't. Unlike making toast, it's just not one of things you want to have your partner feel like they have to do.

 

That would be in keeping with Gottman's theory. His proposal is that when we always allow our spouse to say 'no' without judgment or pressure, that the 'yes' comes more frequently. I can see how when you're making headspace for accepting either answer, again without judgment, how it would be less likely to internalize and perceive a personal rejection or lack of love. So, it makes sense to me.

 

Just as a matter of relationship post-mortem though, I hope you noticed that being willing to "go to the diner" tells your partner that she's NOT special to you, that it's more about having sex than about who you're having it with. That's probably not true, but just as you internalize the lack of libido, she will invariably disconnect the act from the emotional meaning when it's put in those kind of terms and when sex becomes the focal point of the conflict. So, this thing was likely going both ways, both of you rejecting what was most meaningful to the other.

 

 

 

I find that I do have some advice for you afterall...

 

Wait until after you're fully divorced to move on to other partners. And then, only date women who have ZERO financial need of you. If a woman tells you that she's only looking for sex and companionship, only give her sex and companionship... nothing else. Look at them like a flock of pigeons. You'd be surprised how many are more mercenary than they look and how good a game they talk. Guess how I know.

 

Protect yourself. Lay out exactly what you're looking for, and don't get sucked in for more.

[Hard2Think]

That would be in keeping with Gottman's theory. His proposal is that when we always allow our spouse to say 'no' without judgment or pressure, that the 'yes' comes more frequently. I can see how when you're making headspace for accepting either answer, again without judgment, how it would be less likely to internalize and perceive a personal rejection or lack of love. So, it makes sense to me.

 

Just as a matter of relationship post-mortem though, I hope you noticed that being willing to "go to the diner" tells your partner that she's NOT special to you, that it's more about having sex than about who you're having it with. That's probably not true, but just as you internalize the lack of libido, she will invariably disconnect the act from the emotional meaning when it's put in those kind of terms and when sex becomes the focal point of the conflict. So, this thing was likely going both ways, both of you rejecting what was most meaningful to the other.

 

 

 

I find that I do have some advice for you afterall...

 

Wait until after you're fully divorced to move on to other partners. And then, only date women who have ZERO financial need of you. If a woman tells you that she's only looking for sex and companionship, only give her sex and companionship... nothing else. Look at them like a flock of pigeons. You'd be surprised how many are more mercenary than they look and how good a game they talk. Guess how I know.

 

Protect yourself. Lay out exactly what you're looking for, and don't get sucked in for more.

"Going to the diner" is a breakdown in the analogy I guess. Like I mentioned before, it's not about the sex only. Far from it. It's not like I said I'll go see a street hooker if we don't have sex. That would indeed be a confirmation that it's all about "getting off". So, I'm sorry, but the idea that I was somehow giving her the impression that I was rejecting her as a person is ludicrous. I do agree that she may have thought that all the nice things about her should be enough to sustain the marriage without intimacy. And so saying that sex is just as important could be interpreted by her as being the only thing that matters no matter who she is. But again, I never did anything or said anything that could be interpreted that way.

 

But to be clear. I don't regret pressuring because that would have meant more sex. I actually don't believe it would have at all. I regret it because I imagine she didn't want to do it and all I was doing was make her feel bad or that she was a bad person. Looking back, I see that as being completely unnecessary.

 

If I knew then what I know now, I would have done the following:

 

Before seeing the OW, I would have sat down with my wife and explained what I want to do and why. I would make it clear that her libido or whatever issues don't make her a failure nor an awful person, but it does make her less of a wife in the intimate sense. At that point I would leave it up to her as to what she wants to do. If she promises to improve things in the bedroom, I would urge her to think about it first and be sure that's what she really wants because I don't want her to feel coerced since that won't do it for me either. If she wanted to make a real go at it, then I would cancel my plans with the OW. If not, I wouldn't. But at least the discussion would be about as open an honest as it could be given the circumstances.

 

Thanks for the advice. Frankly, I'm not looking for any other relationships. I'm pretty happy right now without one. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Hard2Think

[DreamP]

If you're going to be resentful & dump any woman who looses her libido sometimes then long term relationships, marriage & monogamy just isn't for you! I believe it's not realistic to say "I don't want duty sex, repetitive or quickies AND I will NEVER tolerate low libido". Even hookers aren't really into it! Your only real option is changing partners regularly. How romantic!!

 

But it's not about changing libidos and sexual issues. It's how you approach them that matters. Very few couples are exactly on the same page sexually and even if they are at the beginning, things chance over time. That is just how biology and life works. The true strength of the relationship lies in how you deal with it, the compromises you make and the effort you put into it. When I talk about effort, i don't mean just lying there and waiting for you husband to be done. That isn't true effort. That is just laziness.

 

When my husband first started experiencing erectile issues, I told him that is just part of life. In a few years when I go thru menopause, I will start having my own set of sexual issues. But we shouldn't let that stop us from being sexual with each other. I asked that we examine our sexual script and explore other options. The thing his, he can still take care of my sexual needs even with ED. Also, I urged him to see a doctor. Not just so I could get sex, but also because ED is often an indicator of something else going wrong in the body. He didn't do anything. He just continued to watch me cry and be miserable. That is the true issue and the reason I really should leave him.

 

Marriage is all about compromise and meeting your partner half way. A sexless marriage is when one partner decides who much sex the couple should have without any regard for the other one's feelings.

[dreamingoftigers]

 

See, "once or twice a month" isn't realistic! Women's (& men's I believe, particularly with age) libidos are far more complex. There might be women who have ALWAYS been good to go everyday of their lives but I'm yet to meet one.

 

If you're going to be resentful & dump any woman who looses her libido sometimes then long term relationships, marriage & monogamy just isn't for you! I believe it's not realistic to say "I don't want duty sex, repetitive or quickies AND I will NEVER tolerate low libido". Even hookers aren't really into it! Your only real option is changing partners regularly. How romantic!!

 

I am pretty much " ready to go" everyday.

 

Only exception so far: my third trimester had slowed things down considerably as my son is a big baby so far (7 lbs last week, and I still have 5 weeks left on the pregnancy). I am VERY sore some days from the kicking etc.

 

But even now, just yesterday I found a position that overwhelmed me with, erm, being a really good position at this point in the pregnancy.

 

I think generally (very generally) a lot more women would be much happier really 'digging in' to find out what works for them and keeping their own personal *spark* alive.

 

As much as having a high libido and been married to someone that doesn't overall share that desire SUCKS, I don't intend to give up on my own libido and sometimes it pays off.

[sandylee1]

 

Before seeing the OW, I would have sat down with my wife and explained what I want to do and why. I would make it clear that her libido or whatever issues don't make her a failure nor an awful person, but it does make her less of a wife in the intimate sense. At that point I would leave it up to her as to what she wants to do. If she promises to improve things in the bedroom, I would urge her to think about it first and be sure that's what she really wants because I don't want her to feel coerced since that won't do it for me either. If she wanted to make a real go at it, then I would cancel my plans with the OW. If not, I wouldn't. But at least the discussion would be about as open an honest as it could be given the circumstances.

 

Thanks for the advice. Frankly, I'm not looking for any other relationships. I'm pretty happy right now without one. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

 

Can I ask why you wouldn't have divorced her rather than do this (tell her you'd get an OW)? I ask because..... it's most likely the OW would have developed feelings for you as she did... and wanted you to leave your wife.

 

I guess I don't understand why after having raised the issue numerous times... you wouldn't leave the marriage. .... Instead of letting her know you'd get an OW.

 

I reckon you'll say the reason is or was the kids.

 

After all, from her actions it doesn't seem that her love was in abundance in other non intimate areas of the marriage.

 

Then if she said she'd rather divorce and wasn't willing to step up, would that havebeen okay with you as well?

[Hard2Think]

Can I ask why you wouldn't have divorced her rather than do this (tell her you'd get an OW)? I ask because..... it's most likely the OW would have developed feelings for you as she did... and wanted you to leave your wife.

 

I guess I don't understand why after having raised the issue numerous times... you wouldn't leave the marriage. .... Instead of letting her know you'd get an OW.

 

I reckon you'll say the reason is or was the kids.

 

After all, from her actions it doesn't seem that her love was in abundance in other non intimate areas of the marriage.

 

Then if she said she'd rather divorce and wasn't willing to step up, would that havebeen okay with you as well?

Good question. I think it would have been better that outright divorcing her if for nothing else to give us a chance to try and make things better. Maybe it would give her a chance to reflect on what the lack of intimacy really means in the marriage without making her feel like she did something wrong.

 

As for the divorce, no. It would not have been fine with me, but at least I would know where I stand. In fact, I probably took a bigger risk of divorce by having an A than I would have by this approach.

[Ladyjane14]

"Going to the diner" is a breakdown in the analogy I guess. Like I mentioned before, it's not about the sex only. Far from it. It's not like I said I'll go see a street hooker if we don't have sex. That would indeed be a confirmation that it's all about "getting off". So, I'm sorry, but the idea that I was somehow giving her the impression that I was rejecting her as a person is ludicrous. I do agree that she may have thought that all the nice things about her should be enough to sustain the marriage without intimacy. And so saying that sex is just as important could be interpreted by her as being the only thing that matters no matter who she is. But again, I never did anything or said anything that could be interpreted that way.

 

But to be clear. I don't regret pressuring because that would have meant more sex. I actually don't believe it would have at all. I regret it because I imagine she didn't want to do it and all I was doing was make her feel bad or that she was a bad person. Looking back, I see that as being completely unnecessary.

 

If I knew then what I know now, I would have done the following:

 

Before seeing the OW, I would have sat down with my wife and explained what I want to do and why. I would make it clear that her libido or whatever issues don't make her a failure nor an awful person, but it does make her less of a wife in the intimate sense. At that point I would leave it up to her as to what she wants to do. If she promises to improve things in the bedroom, I would urge her to think about it first and be sure that's what she really wants because I don't want her to feel coerced since that won't do it for me either. If she wanted to make a real go at it, then I would cancel my plans with the OW. If not, I wouldn't. But at least the discussion would be about as open an honest as it could be given the circumstances.

 

Thanks for the advice. Frankly, I'm not looking for any other relationships. I'm pretty happy right now without one. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

 

See, that's the part I don't get, H2T. It sounds like she made an effort, but the effort just wasn't good enough. A person who's not feeling his/her libido isn't withholding something on purpose. They simply aren't getting that physiological reaction for whatever reason. Hell, you could be Hollywood's latest hunk, but even if the spirit's willing, the body might fail.

 

The part that blows my mind is that if it was a guy with ED, he wouldn't be judged so harshly and his lack of libido wouldn't be internalized as some kind of bait-and-switch rejection.

 

It seems kind of like a no-win scenario in which there was nothing she might have done to turn it around. Of course, I don't know you, your wife, or the exact dynamics. But it is an interesting conundrum, as so many couples experience the same sort of struggle.

 

 

You mentioned that you're enjoying your alone time right now, and I think that's awesome. Just remember the advice I gave you when the time comes, okay? Tuck it away in the back corner of your mind and pull it out when you need it. Code-word.... "pigeons"

Edited April 12, 2016 by Ladyjane14

[Hard2Think]

See, that's the part I don't get, H2T. It sounds like she made an effort, but the effort just wasn't good enough. A person who's not feeling his/her libido isn't withholding something on purpose. They simply aren't getting that physiological reaction for whatever reason. Hell, you could be Hollywood's latest hunk, but even if the spirit's willing, the body might fail.

 

The part that blows my mind is that if it was a guy with ED, he wouldn't be judged so harshly and his lack of libido wouldn't be internalized as some kind of bait-and-switch rejection.

 

It seems kind of like a no-win scenario in which there was nothing she might have done to turn it around. Of course, I don't know you, your wife, or the exact dynamics. But it is an interesting conundrum, as so many couples experience the same sort of struggle.

 

 

You mentioned that you're enjoying your alone time right now, and I think that's awesome. Just remember the advice I gave you when the time comes, okay? Tuck it away in the back corner of your mind and pull it out when you need it. Code-word.... "pigeons"

 

I understand your issue. Ok, let me try and see if I can make it clearer. If my wife were to have a medical condition to where she could no longer have vaginal sex ..I could deal with that. I'd see that as the cards we were dealt and we'd make the best of it. The guy with ED is in the same boat. He could have an intact libido and a strong desire to bond with his wife, but he can't do it that way. Truth is a guy in that situation would very quickly look for a medical solution to that problem. Now if that guy with ED just shruggs his shoulders, lets sex drop off a cliff, and does nothing but the bare minimum to get intimate with his wife, then I'd have no sympathy for him.

 

I don't know that my wife has any medical issue. She does often enjoy sex when we have it. She'll even comment sometimes right afterwards "We should do this more often!" But in fact we can go 2 months where we did it once. In most cases, she'd rather do something else. In between, there's no racy talk, sexual touching, nor inuuendos. Nothing. That tells me she doesn't like doing it and she'll avoid it as much as she can without crossing the line into complete sexlessness.

 

So there's not "nothing" she could have done to turn it around. We could have had sex once a week and take at least 30 minutes. Maybe every once in awhile she would be open to doing something different in the bedroom, just for fun. That would have been fine. I could live with that. Hell if she didn't want full on sex, I'd be happy with something else. 2 hours a month tops. Did she make an effort? Well, technically yes I suppose. But it was the weakest effort she could make.

 

Let me see if I can make an analogy. Let's say a woman complains to her husband that he never buys her flowers anymore. So he rolls his eyes and thinks "Great. Another damn thing to worry about. As if bills, work, commutes, kids, etc. wasn't enough". Two days later he when he comes home from work, he hands her a bouquet of wilted, dried out flowers he got from the gas station on his way home s he gassed up the car. They cost a dollar fifty as she can see from the price tag he didn't bother to remove. "Is dinner ready?" He says. She points out that she wanted nicer flowers, not this. He blows up and laments "Damned if I do, damned if I don't. You're never happy."

Edited April 13, 2016 by Hard2Think

[sandylee1]

H2H

 

I think I get you.

 

You feel /felt your wife had no desire to have sex with you. That she was doing it..because that's what she felt she needed to do to keep you.

 

So it didn't feel like her heart was in it. If it comes over as a chore ... then it's not quite as enjoyable.

 

It seems a bit robotic to say......okay let's have sex now. It should come more naturally where it just happens.

 

I can never understand those that make sex dates. That would just kill the mood for me.

[ShatteredLady]

Do we have someone with a very low/or no sex drive who can join this conversation?

 

I'll be the first to admit that I'd like more passion in my M. In my head my logic is, sex feels nice, it's good! It's even better with someone that I love. I've had children. I've had health issues & medications so I understand not wanting it all the time.

 

To be completely honest, in my dream world, I'd have a husband who would accept that my health is particularly painful at certain times & want to massage, touch, play gently at those times & be really ready to go when things are good...you know? My backs really not too bad NOW (I don't know how it will be later) so let's jump on it right NOW!!!

 

In my logic why would anyone not want to have sex in one way or another? There must be something wrong physically (hormones, meds, change of life etc) or mentally (depression, feeling turned off for some reason etc) so it can be fixed with help from medical professionals (again physical or mental).

 

The problem is I'm clearly wrong! So many members complaining about it means I MUST be wrong.

 

My H says it's his body image or stress etc. I believe it's habit. When we're doing it we do it more but a dry spell just goes on & on....

 

I wish we had more members from the 'other side' to explain their feelings. I know it's embarrassing. It's only lately that I've spoken about this. Logic dictates there MUST be many members here who don't want sex very often, if at all. PLEASE join the conversation.

 

 

Do you just 'go off' your partner? For men is it looking at porn & being disappointed by a 'normal' woman? Do you just get bored in a long term relationship?

[flowergirl14]

I worry that you might be overthinking the problem, at least in my case. I have no sliding door moments. She didn't have to catch any opportunity that was only open for a brief period with me. For me it's about the day to day. I was ridiculously easy to keep happy.

 

At risk of sounding shallow, I see that things would have never gone bad and if they had, they would have been fixed a long time ago if we were reconnecting sexually on a regular basis. I we had been, I would have been much more willing to put up with moods and maybe more willing to step up and do what's needed when a "sliding door moment" happens.

 

My W is and has been very affectionate with me for the past years and even more so now that the kids have left the home. We go to nice dinners in posh parts of the city out every week when I get back. She wants to hold my hand as we walk. She gets upset if we don't spend lots of time talking just her and me, which we doi alot of. And yet .. we spend 10 minutes a month at most doing anything sexual. THere's 0 sexual innuendo in any conversation because if I start, she shuts it down. There's no playfully touching her in a certain way at home. Nothing. When it come's time for sex, it's her going "Well, shall we?"

 

I'll tell you what goes through my mind and it's maybe not so pretty. Her needs are pretty clear as are mine. Hers are being met and because mine are not (and I hate to even say it that way), I feel used, She would feel used to if we were having sex every day but I only had a ten minute conversation with her a month. She can tell me she loves me all day long, but it means nothing if she won't touch my c*ck.

 

You think I that on top of everything else I also want to keep an eye out for sliding windows, closing doors, leaky roofs, or whetever else she's got going? Forget it. I simply can't be bothered anymore.

 

Why do you lead her on by wining and dining her and making her think everything is hunky dory when it clearly isnt for you. Why not say I feel used?

[Dolfin80]

Do we have someone with a very low/or no sex drive who can join this conversation?

 

I'll be the first to admit that I'd like more passion in my M. In my head my logic is, sex feels nice, it's good! It's even better with someone that I love. I've had children. I've had health issues & medications so I understand not wanting it all the time.

 

To be completely honest, in my dream world, I'd have a husband who would accept that my health is particularly painful at certain times & want to massage, touch, play gently at those times & be really ready to go when things are good...you know? My backs really not too bad NOW (I don't know how it will be later) so let's jump on it right NOW!!!

 

In my logic why would anyone not want to have sex in one way or another? There must be something wrong physically (hormones, meds, change of life etc) or mentally (depression, feeling turned off for some reason etc) so it can be fixed with help from medical professionals (again physical or mental).

 

The problem is I'm clearly wrong! So many members complaining about it means I MUST be wrong.

 

My H says it's his body image or stress etc. I believe it's habit. When we're doing it we do it more but a dry spell just goes on & on....

 

I wish we had more members from the 'other side' to explain their feelings. I know it's embarrassing. It's only lately that I've spoken about this. Logic dictates there MUST be many members here who don't want sex very often, if at all. PLEASE join the conversation.

 

 

Do you just 'go off' your partner? For men is it looking at porn & being disappointed by a 'normal' woman? Do you just get bored in a long term relationship?

 

I have a very low sex drive. I just went 3 years without sex then hooked up with the tour guide to Macchu Piccu......had sex with him, now that was a year ago. So in 4 years had sex with one guy whilst camping in the Andes on the way to Maccu piccu......lol.....

 

I dont seem to want sex or need it at all. It never really enters my mind. Alot of the time when ive had sex its not even enjoyable, it has hurt me at times.

 

My last boyfriend had phimosis so he hardly ever had sex with me, his foreskin couldnt retract and this caused him pain. We were a good match! I didnt mind that he had phimosis, i loved him just the way he was.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Dolfin80

[Ladyjane14]

I understand your issue. Ok, let me try and see if I can make it clearer. If my wife were to have a medical condition to where she could no longer have vaginal sex ..I could deal with that. I'd see that as the cards we were dealt and we'd make the best of it. The guy with ED is in the same boat. He could have an intact libido and a strong desire to bond with his wife, but he can't do it that way. Truth is a guy in that situation would very quickly look for a medical solution to that problem. Now if that guy with ED just shruggs his shoulders, lets sex drop off a cliff, and does nothing but the bare minimum to get intimate with his wife, then I'd have no sympathy for him.

 

I don't know that my wife has any medical issue. She does often enjoy sex when we have it. She'll even comment sometimes right afterwards "We should do this more often!" But in fact we can go 2 months where we did it once. In most cases, she'd rather do something else. In between, there's no racy talk, sexual touching, nor inuuendos. Nothing. That tells me she doesn't like doing it and she'll avoid it as much as she can without crossing the line into complete sexlessness.

 

So there's not "nothing" she could have done to turn it around. We could have had sex once a week and take at least 30 minutes. Maybe every once in awhile she would be open to doing something different in the bedroom, just for fun. That would have been fine. I could live with that. Hell if she didn't want full on sex, I'd be happy with something else. 2 hours a month tops. Did she make an effort? Well, technically yes I suppose. But it was the weakest effort she could make.

 

Let me see if I can make an analogy. Let's say a woman complains to her husband that he never buys her flowers anymore. So he rolls his eyes and thinks "Great. Another damn thing to worry about. As if bills, work, commutes, kids, etc. wasn't enough". Two days later he when he comes home from work, he hands her a bouquet of wilted, dried out flowers he got from the gas station on his way home s he gassed up the car. They cost a dollar fifty as she can see from the price tag he didn't bother to remove. "Is dinner ready?" He says. She points out that she wanted nicer flowers, not this. He blows up and laments "Damned if I do, damned if I don't. You're never happy."

 

So it was less about the quality of the sex and more about the quantity? I was under the impression that it was the "duty sex" perception that was at the core of the problem.

[Hard2Think]

So it was less about the quality of the sex and more about the quantity? I was under the impression that it was the "duty sex" perception that was at the core of the problem.

What? I can't have both?

 

Let me go back to the flowers analogy from my previous post. The husband went ahaed and got the crummy flowers as an afterthought since he was getting gas anyway. Do think she's going to want him to bring flowers anymore? I doubt it.

 

Now suppose he went to a proper flower shop and got a nice bouquet with the white roses he knows she really likes. And he even takes the time to buy a little card and writes a sappy note in it. Maybe he even goes nuts and buys some choclates as well. Ok, so this may not be his thing. It might have taken him out of his way and cost more than a buck fifty. But he did it that way because he knows she will like it.

 

I realize that the wife may have liked it better if she hadn't had to ask; instead maybe he would have done it on his own. But still, it showed that he cared, and that he took her wishes seriously. It also happens that she really liked those flowers. All is good.

 

I'm not saying sex=flowers, of course. But still, surely now you understand what I mean?

[bathtub-row]

I think you need to stop defending your position. Some people will support marriage and argue about its merits until the cows come home. You put up with a lot more crap than you should have, for far too long. Game over.

[ShatteredLady]

Remember I'm a lady who would like more meaningful "flowers"....

 

I get what you're trying to say but.... You want more sex. She can give you that. You want her to LOVE IT & be imaginative & passionate about it. You feel like it's duty sex....

 

I think a better (way too extreme but I can't think of a better one) example would be...

 

Wife - "Darling, to get really turned on I want to watch you get penetrated by a man!"

 

H - "WTF?"

 

Wife - "& I want you to REALLY enjoy it!".

 

This is about sexual desire. If it's not there it's not there. I've already said ALL the different ways I think this can be worked on....particularly if she enjoys it when you actually get around to it...but once she has checked her hormones, medications, depression, stress etc. AND seen a sex therapist AND worked on it (duty sex) my theory being sex is a habit & the more you do it the more you want it... Once it's ALL tried & you're just left with a low libido all she can give is duty sex & become a better actress! If her heart isn't in it, it's not in it.

 

You want her to desperately want it AND be REALLY into it. She can't just 'do that' it's going to take a lot of psychological work (if it's not physical)....& even then....????

 

I don't know! If I did I'd be having sex now instead of writing on a forum!! I just don't understand why you think she can just do it, like buying flowers. She buys you flowers the best she can. You can tell her that you want different blooms but she's still only going to be doing it because you told her.

[Hard2Think]

Remember I'm a lady who would like more meaningful "flowers"....

 

I get what you're trying to say but.... You want more sex. She can give you that. You want her to LOVE IT & be imaginative & passionate about it. You feel like it's duty sex....

 

I think a better (way too extreme but I can't think of a better one) example would be...

 

Wife - "Darling, to get really turned on I want to watch you get penetrated by a man!"

 

H - "WTF?"

 

Wife - "& I want you to REALLY enjoy it!".

 

This is about sexual desire. If it's not there it's not there. I've already said ALL the different ways I think this can be worked on....particularly if she enjoys it when you actually get around to it...but once she has checked her hormones, medications, depression, stress etc. AND seen a sex therapist AND worked on it (duty sex) my theory being sex is a habit & the more you do it the more you want it... Once it's ALL tried & you're just left with a low libido all she can give is duty sex & become a better actress! If her heart isn't in it, it's not in it.

 

You want her to desperately want it AND be REALLY into it. She can't just 'do that' it's going to take a lot of psychological work (if it's not physical)....& even then....????

 

I don't know! If I did I'd be having sex now instead of writing on a forum!! I just don't understand why you think she can just do it, like buying flowers. She buys you flowers the best she can. You can tell her that you want different blooms but she's still only going to be doing it because you told her.

That's not what I was saying. But that's fine. I fully expect that no matter how well I try to explain this, there will always be some people who will understand and some people who don't.

 

But I don't disagree on one point. If indeed she finds it that distasteful to have sex more than a few minutes a month, then I'd rather she didn't. That's fine. That's her right. I also don't feel obligated to come back home. That's my right.

[ShatteredLady]

I wish I knew the answer for how to get someone to change their libido. If 'fake it until you make it' isn't acceptable then what?

 

You said your wife likes it, even saying 'we should do this more!', so, yeh, I don't get it really. I'm sorry. I'm not being difficult. It's no clicking with me. I don't get the flower comparison because the H isn't loving buying flowers, he's faking it...

 

Maybe in time he will really get into buying flowers. (My habit belief)

[No_Go]

Oh yes - the way to the Macchu Picchu we have maked well with my then BF... It must be the thin air there.

 

Dolfin (and other people that consider themselves asexual/low drive): is it the same during masturbation (no need, no pleasure etc)? Or did it start after bad experiences? I'm asking just to question a theory of mine regarding imprint (that I've been thinking about, nothing scientific )

 

I have a very low sex drive. I just went 3 years without sex then hooked up with the tour guide to Macchu Piccu......had sex with him, now that was a year ago. So in 4 years had sex with one guy whilst camping in the Andes on the way to Maccu piccu......lol.....

 

I dont seem to want sex or need it at all. It never really enters my mind. Alot of the time when ive had sex its not even enjoyable, it has hurt me at times.

 

My last boyfriend had phimosis so he hardly ever had sex with me, his foreskin couldnt retract and this caused him pain. We were a good match! I didnt mind that he had phimosis, i loved him just the way he was.

[Dolfin80]

Oh yes - the way to the Macchu Picchu we have maked well with my then BF... It must be the thin air there.

 

Dolfin (and other people that consider themselves asexual/low drive): is it the same during masturbation (no need, no pleasure etc)? Or did it start after bad experiences? I'm asking just to question a theory of mine regarding imprint (that I've been thinking about, nothing scientific )

 

I'm complexed. Don't really know how to answer this.

 

I masterbate about once a month, usually just before ovulation. Really great orgasms. I've always done this.

 

Now at 36, Im not interested in sex with men. Don't want to date at all.

 

In my 20s I slept with lots of men (high number). I even had a threesome with 2 USA marines but it didn't go down that well and I asked them to stop (there warship was in town - I live in Australia). I was sexually attracted to men in my 20s.

 

When I was having sex with men I never really enjoyed the way they thrusted, so I would always have to tell them to go slower and softer. At times I had to get them to stop as the thrusting hurt my cervix.

 

My fertility may have died and that's why I'm not interested in sex or men anymore - I have no idea really. I don't seem to care either....lolz.....as I'm happy with my life :-))))

 

I was with my ex from 30-32 and he had phimosis, so he could t have sex with me, no worries I was happy not to have intercourse with him as I don't want or need it to be in love with someone.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Dolfin80

[No_Go]

That's very interesting and seems to prove my suspect that libido/turn-on fantasies are just imprint of past pleasurable experiences (and lack of these)

 

From what you described you're not asexual, just not into PiV intercourse. I realize that that doesn't matter since you reached your balance, just thinking as a theory..

 

I've been the same like you in reverse though - most 20s no sex, late 20s to now - a lot albeit with just 3 people.

 

When I was not having sex with others though - I was veery sexual. Had kinky fantasies, orgasmed from nearly 1-2 min stim.

 

First intercourse experiences - nothing special, even painful (I was learning the ropes, now I see it was my own mistakes). It took me about an year to regain sexuality and learn to put another person into the mix. I'll say something controversial but... Even up to date the second person in my sex sessions is like a living masturbation device, that's my imprint, so I never associated sex with love/feelings/emotions etc.

 

So I don't think you're asexual at all. Just more oriented towards self-sexuality. People should acknowledge that but it will take time like eg for the bi-sexuality.

 

Btw sex is more than PiV, and if that hurts - it is just an incompetent male lover. Oral to completion before intercourse solved mine and most people that I've been talking to pains from trusting. You don't like guy being on top - don't do it! It's not the only configuration possible.

 

Btw I'm glad to hear you found happiness in date-free life. I'm often contemplating that I'd be happier that way too ... I just chosen another path for now. My friend is 36-37, haven't dated in 6-7 years and is buying a house and having a kid by herself. I'm secretly jealous because I've always seen myself that way... But couldn't resist to peer-pressure.

 

Btw I believe truly asexual people exist but is very very very rare.

 

I'm complexed. Don't really know how to answer this.

 

I masterbate about once a month, usually just before ovulation. Really great orgasms. I've always done this.

 

Now at 36, Im not interested in sex with men. Don't want to date at all.

 

In my 20s I slept with lots of men (high number). I even had a threesome with 2 USA marines but it didn't go down that well and I asked them to stop (there warship was in town - I live in Australia). I was sexually attracted to men in my 20s.

 

When I was having sex with men I never really enjoyed the way they thrusted, so I would always have to tell them to go slower and softer. At times I had to get them to stop as the thrusting hurt my cervix.

 

My fertility may have died and that's why I'm not interested in sex or men anymore - I have no idea really. I don't seem to care either....lolz.....as I'm happy with my life :-))))