[The topic of] infidelity and its effect on my marriage...

[brothers343]

I have always been an extremist. My job, I love doing extreme sports, I love being on the edge. I even love my wife and kids to the extreme. It makes me happy. I wouldn't be able to love no other way. The question of cheating is such a broad term that at times it's unexplainable. We read here in this forum the stories of infidelities that the man or woman have. They say that they are very happy in there marriege but the affair still happens. What causes this to happen. Are they like me that need that extreme.....like a drug or are they bored. OP I'm glad you have a great marriege and you value your wife....I value mine too. I like the phychology of learning about affairs. I like reading the stories but I have often wonder why a man or a woman would have an affair if there lives are so wonderful. Is it an itch, or is it like a first time drug user that thought that they were only going to try it once. Maybe is a mystery. Maybe we're not meant to find out why.

[xxoo]

That means that you have been able to do option #1 until now and that is a good thing.

 

 

That is something that every couple has to reconcile and find a way to deal with. Every couple has to come up with a way to deal with the attractions and desires they feel for others as well as a way to deal with their own individual urges for variety and something different.

 

 

Some deal with it by recognizing it and accepting it and finding ways to vent it off while remaining exclusive to one another.

 

 

That's admirable and probably the ideal.

 

No, because I haven't dealt with frustration or dissatisfaction. My sex life is VERY satisfying, full stop. So your description of #1 is not my reality.

[dichotomy]

Oldshirt you have very good posts, but I do agree perhaps you need a revision of #1.

 

While it maybe rare - there are some who are hard wired for strong sexual monogamy - not to say they don't find others attractive or even have a fantasy, but for some - sex/love/exclusivity are all tied together.

 

Just as some don't get or understand swinging or open marriages - i suspect there are a number who don;t get some people are into exclusive long term sexual bonding.

 

Of course sometimes people marry someone who does not share their "wiring". I know this all to painfully.

[xxoo]

I totally get off on monogamy. I don't understand the desire for variety, specifically. Even in my fantasies, there is monogamy and total devotion

[RecentChange]

I totally get off on monogamy. I don't understand the desire for variety, specifically. Even in my fantasies, there is monogamy and total devotion

 

Yep, and just goes to show that us humans, and our sexuality come in a vast array of variances.

 

I... Like variety when it comes to sex at least. The list of people I would actually want to date is much shorter than who I would like to have sex with!

 

I have to say, this forum, and doing my own reading and soul searching have opened my eyes up to how different we all can function.

 

I have never "gotten off on monogamy" - from as long as I can remember I have ALWAYS fantasized about others, even in the "honey moon" period of relationships. Now that didn't mean that I wasn't sexually satisfied, I was - just variety and new encounters have always revved my engine.

 

Heh, and I also once upon a time put my self in the "I would never cheat!!" catagory. I didn't think I was capable of it. I didn't feel a pull or an urge too.... Until I had a "change," an opportunity, a weakness in my relationship - and I DID cheat.

 

I basically agree with Old Shirt, as this matches my experiences.

[xxoo]

Yep, and just goes to show that us humans, and our sexuality come in a vast array of variances.

 

I... Like variety when it comes to sex at least. The list of people I would actually want to date is much shorter than who I would like to have sex with!

 

It's true, there is so much variance.

 

I don't fantasies about randoms. I fantasize entire relationships with select individuals It's uncommon for me to be really attracted to someone other than my spouse, but when I do, it's an emotionally laden fantasy. A crush.

 

The dirty, dirty strictly sexual fantasies I have always focus on my H. I only fantasize kinky stuff with him, because I can only imagine being that kinky with him I understand that is quite different from what others have described, but that's my reality.

[oldshirt]

I totally get off on monogamy. I don't understand the desire for variety, specifically. Even in my fantasies, there is monogamy and total devotion

 

I am not familiar with your marital situation. Did you marry the first person you were with romantically in jr high or high school and that has been the only person you have had any sexual contact with your whole life?

[xxoo]

I am not familiar with your marital situation. Did you marry the first person you were with romantically in jr high or high school and that has been the only person you have had any sexual contact with your whole life?

 

I met him at 17, but I had sexual experiences before him. Our relationship started as casual friends hooking up (like my other experiences), and we fell in love later.

[oldshirt]

Please understand I am not knocking monogamy or saying that is bad or wrong or not practical or anything. monogamous relationships and marriages have many practical and beneficial benefits.

 

 

I am not saying that everyone is going to be living a life of suffering and deprivation if they are forced into a monogamous relationship or that even the most free spirit won't weigh the pros and cons and intentionally choose monogamy over all the other alternatives.

 

 

Many people do just fine and do not have any problems maintaining an exclusive relationship.

 

 

I am simply saying that as a species we are not hardwired for life long monogamy for life. When people marry their first high school sweetheart and life out their entire lives with that person and go to their grave never having contact with anyone else, they have done so as a conscious choice. It was not an intuitive and instinctive act.

 

 

They were tempted. They did have yearnings, fantasie and urges for something else. They likely even had some kind of actual feelings for someone else at some point in their lives, but they consciously choose to not pursue it.

 

 

They may not have even given it a true, sincere consideration - but they at least had the feelings, had the yearnings and had the urges. They found ways to reconcile those feelings and yearnings within the confines of their monogamous marriages. Some did so without angst and distress. Some were miserable and desperate. But all had the yearnings and found ways to deal with it.

[oldshirt]

I met him at 17, but I had sexual experiences before him. Our relationship started as casual friends hooking up (like my other experiences), and we fell in love later.

 

 

 

Then you have not had a life long monogamous life with only one sexual partner.

 

 

And I am assuming you are not 80 years old and you still have a significant number of years left of your life expectancy so you don't know what the next 30+ years will bring.

[xxoo]

Then you have not had a life long monogamous life with only one sexual partner.

 

 

And I am assuming you are not 80 years old and you still have a significant number of years left of your life expectancy so you don't know what the next 30+ years will bring.

 

 

I never said I was. I said I'm 25 years into a monogamous relationship, and it isn't a struggle as you've described. Yes, I have had attractions to others--but I enjoy them. No struggle, no angst, no guilt.

[dichotomy]

 

I am simply saying that as a species we are not hardwired for life long monogamy for life. .

 

For a long time (and still among some) homosexuality was viewed as unnatural and illness - and even "just a choice". We know now that's not true.

 

For a while homosexuals called out bisexuals for being on the fence and really just naturally gay. We know that's not true.

 

Then we have had the explosion of understanding about all the other terms - asexual, polys, swingers, pan sexual, transsexuals, and more "xyz" sexuals.

 

and now we have some saying monogamists - people who's sexuality is tied to deep and exclusive bonding - don't exist and its not natural?

 

We are complex creatures and its time we accepted sexuality is wide and different and some people are just wired differently than others.

[oldshirt]

Just as some don't get or understand swinging or open marriages - i suspect there are a number who don;t get some people are into exclusive long term sexual bonding.

 

.

 

I had a few years in my mid to upper 20s where I was somewhat promiscuous as a single adult.

 

 

And I had several years in my 40s as an active swinger.

 

 

But most of my life since my first high school girlfriend at 17 has been in exclusive monogamous relationships (technically serial monogamy) and I have been married for a little over 20 years and with the exception of the several years of swinging, our marriage has been very traditional, so I do 'get' monogamy as a relationship practice and I do understand it's benefits as well as it's challenges.

 

 

All I am saying is that one partner for life is not a natural hardwiring. It may be an ideal goal for some and it may have some practical benefits and it may be a worthy objective, but it is going to take a lot of work and sacrifice for the people who strive for it. It is not going to come easy and naturally or without cost.

[oldshirt]

I never said I was. I said I'm 25 years into a monogamous relationship, and it isn't a struggle as you've described. Yes, I have had attractions to others--but I enjoy them. No struggle, no angst, no guilt.

 

 

 

If your spouse feels the same way, then you've hit the jackpot and are very very fortunate.

[xxoo]

 

All I am saying is that one partner for life is not a natural hardwiring. It may be an ideal goal for some and it may have some practical benefits and it may be a worthy objective, but it is going to take a lot of work and sacrifice for the people who strive for it. It is not going to come easy and naturally or without cost.

 

I don't think anyone here is saying that one partner for life is a goal. People do break up, divorce, take a while to find someone they want a monogamous relationship with, etc.

 

I'm just saying that, once two people decide to be in a monogamous relationship, struggle to deal with urges is not universal. I mean, random, casual sex with someone else holds ZERO appeal for me. If I can't have it all (full blown affair with the guy completely into me...the only scenario that could hold a candle to what I have at home), I'm going to have a much hotter time in my own bed with my own guy.

[oldshirt]

For a long time (and still among some) homosexuality was viewed as unnatural and illness - and even "just a choice". We know now that's not true.

 

For a while homosexuals called out bisexuals for being on the fence and really just naturally gay. We know that's not true.

 

Then we have had the explosion of understanding about all the other terms - asexual, polys, swingers, pan sexual, transsexuals, and more "xyz" sexuals.

 

and now we have some saying monogamists - people who's sexuality is tied to deep and exclusive bonding - don't exist and its not natural?

 

We are complex creatures and its time we accepted sexuality is wide and different and some people are just wired differently than others.

 

 

 

I see your point.

 

 

But yes, I guess I am in the camp that believes deep down on an instinctive level we are all animals of the jungle and a primitive part of us wants to breed with every fertile female and be bred by the strongest alpha male. We also want to kill anything that threatens or angers us and devour any prey item we can over power.

 

 

....we just choose not to do those things because we don't want to be creatures of the jungle and we want to live in a civilized world.

 

 

I read a very thought provoking article one time in a religious publication that says basically what I wrote above that we are all animals and that marriage and monogamy do not come naturally to humans. It said that life long monogamy to one person is very unnatural and not part of our instinct.

 

 

It went on to say that life long marriage and monogamy were infact part of the supernatural and that the choice to forsake all others and remain only with one was an act inspired by God and chosen by people to carry out God's will.

 

 

I am not a religious person per se but it was a very good article and it was very thought provoking even to a nonreligious person.

 

 

In a Christian wedding ceremony, the couple is asked if they choose to be together in monogamous marriage as a conscious choice. They are asked if it is a choice of their own free will. In other words it is not an assumption. When a couple makes their vows, it is vow and a pledge because it is assumed that it goes against their basic nature and that it will difficult to fulfill.

 

 

The wedding is a ceremony of that choice. It is not a confirmation of one's own basic instinct and nature.

 

 

But enough about that, I rarely discuss religion.

 

 

But yes, you are correct. Different people have different values and mores and life goals. some value monogamy more than others and feel it is more a part of them than others. And for others monogamy is a dungeon and will never be content or without a wanderlust. People are on a spectrum from one extreme to another and all fall somewhere on that spectrum.

 

 

I believe we can agree that people obviously view it and feel about monogamy differently.

[oldshirt]

I don't think anyone here is saying that one partner for life is a goal. People do break up, divorce, take a while to find someone they want a monogamous relationship with, etc.

.

 

 

 

But in a way that is what I am saying.

 

 

If people were hardwired for life long monogamy with only one partner for life, then there wouldn't be all these break ups and divorces.

 

 

It wouldn't really be a "goal" per se, because people would just do it naturally.

[dichotomy]

I had a few years in my mid to upper 20s where I was somewhat promiscuous as a single adult.

Thats fine - sex is sex and casual sex work for you. Thats the way your wired.

And I had several years in my 40s as an active swinger.

 

Again - your brain is wired to accept this sexual expression. Its cool.

 

But most of my life since my first high school girlfriend at 17 has been in exclusive monogamous relationships (technically serial monogamy) and I have been married for a little over 20 years and with the exception of the several years of swinging, our marriage has been very traditional, so I do 'get' monogamy as a relationship practice and I do understand it's benefits as well as it's challenges.

 

Monogamy was a choice for you, and a difficult one at some points.

 

All I am saying is that one partner for life is not a natural hardwiring. It may be an ideal goal for some and it may have some practical benefits and it may be a worthy objective, but it is going to take a lot of work and sacrifice for the people who strive for it. It is not going to come easy and naturally or without cost.

 

And this is where we disagree.

 

 

 

I turned down numerous opportunities for either casual sex or sex with attractive women (all ages and races) I was not emotionally interested in during high school and college times. When I did rarely make a choice for casual sex (as you did for monogamy) I found THIS challenging and not easy or natural to me and with cost to me(as you did with monogamy).

 

It is not a religious thing. I am a very sexual person - I just need to have deep exclusive bonding and the feelings of that with sex to make it feel natural to me. Its probably the main reason I have not cheated in a difficult marriage.

[BettyDraper]

Yep, and just goes to show that us humans, and our sexuality come in a vast array of variances.

 

I... Like variety when it comes to sex at least. The list of people I would actually want to date is much shorter than who I would like to have sex with!

 

I have to say, this forum, and doing my own reading and soul searching have opened my eyes up to how different we all can function.

 

I have never "gotten off on monogamy" - from as long as I can remember I have ALWAYS fantasized about others, even in the "honey moon" period of relationships. Now that didn't mean that I wasn't sexually satisfied, I was - just variety and new encounters have always revved my engine.

 

Heh, and I also once upon a time put my self in the "I would never cheat!!" catagory. I didn't think I was capable of it. I didn't feel a pull or an urge too.... Until I had a "change," an opportunity, a weakness in my relationship - and I DID cheat.

 

I basically agree with Old Shirt, as this matches my experiences.

 

This resonates with me as the only place I am unfaithful is in my fantasies.

 

It's always a stolen night with the same handsome celebrity.

 

We're both married in real life but we forget that in my fantasy.

[BettyDraper]

Please understand I am not knocking monogamy or saying that is bad or wrong or not practical or anything. monogamous relationships and marriages have many practical and beneficial benefits.

 

 

I am not saying that everyone is going to be living a life of suffering and deprivation if they are forced into a monogamous relationship or that even the most free spirit won't weigh the pros and cons and intentionally choose monogamy over all the other alternatives.

 

 

Many people do just fine and do not have any problems maintaining an exclusive relationship.

 

 

I am simply saying that as a species we are not hardwired for life long monogamy for life. When people marry their first high school sweetheart and life out their entire lives with that person and go to their grave never having contact with anyone else, they have done so as a conscious choice. It was not an intuitive and instinctive act.

 

 

They were tempted. They did have yearnings, fantasie and urges for something else. They likely even had some kind of actual feelings for someone else at some point in their lives, but they consciously choose to not pursue it.

 

 

They may not have even given it a true, sincere consideration - but they at least had the feelings, had the yearnings and had the urges. They found ways to reconcile those feelings and yearnings within the confines of their monogamous marriages. Some did so without angst and distress. Some were miserable and desperate. But all had the yearnings and found ways to deal with it.

 

I will be the first to admit that I have been tempted. When a a sexy man hits on me, I will sometimes think about what it would be like to sleep with him or how big his package is. I know this is wrong but it's the truth.

 

I never act on these feelings because of my morals. I also have such a great time in bed with my husband that I feel like I would be disappointed if I slept with someone else. I enjoyed my sexuality as a single woman but none of my partners compared to my husband.