Shocker

[Arieswoman]

Jersey B R,

 

The are successful because they fill a void. That is real and a BS must accept that if they want to reconcile. That void must be filled.

 

IMO that is a total crock.

 

The adultery is all about the choices of the WS and nothing to do with the BS. Affairs are fantasies filled with lies, deceit, irresponsibility and seratonin. No BS can compete with something that is an illusion.

[bathtub-row]

Oh honey. You still want to believe that MM (and specifically your MM I can only assume) don't love their wives but that they stay with them because they feel like they have to.

 

How many times do you have to see proof that you're wrong before you'll start believing it?

 

This kind of thinking is not helpful. Seeing him as a hostage only promotes the idea that he might escape and be with you someday, when the truth of the matter is, he is where he WANTS to be. Nobody is forcing him to stay in his marriage.

 

OP, please don't listen to this. It's not going to help you heal.

 

Not meaning to sound confrontational but since this isn't the first time you've "Oh, honey'ed" me, I'm thinking you may be way too concerned with what I think and believe. What I do know is that xMM didn't love his wife enough to stay faithful to her, did he? That much cannot be denied. In my book, that's not a grand gesture of love.

 

A couple of years after we ended our affair, I overheard a very private conversation between xMM and his good friend. xMM was telling his friend that all he and his wife do is fight and argue and he didn't know what to do. He said he was going to buy a boat and live on it. There was no way either of them suspected for a second that I stumbled onto that conversation. My take on it was that he would prefer to live on a boat than get a divorce from someone who makes him that miserable. But, yeah, I'm sure deep down he's just nuts about his wife. I must be missing that fact somehow because I'm delusional and naive. What he's really nuts about is his money, his company, and his reputation.

 

Do I think xMM is being held hostage by his marriage? Of course not. He knows how to make choices and he made his. I've spent enough of my life feeling second best to everything else that mattered more than me.

 

My conclusions about these situations aren't only based on my situation. I see it over and over again on this site. As far as xMM is concerned, I don't care what his reasons are or were. He hurt me and that's all I need to know at this point in time. I don't care who he loves and doesn't love. All I need to know is that I didn't matter enough; that he'd prefer living on a boat to leaving his miserable marriage. I'm sure it's all about their grand love and I'm sure it's all worth it. That's just not the kind of love I want from someone.

[Jersey born raised]

Hi Arieswoman,

 

I agree that you nailed most of what I said. Except it is not a bull for the why of the first seed. You are right though that sometimes it is not anything BS did or did not do. It is really all WS. Look using my post on how holds true all to often and players know it.

 

weylyniwk I asked you if you where pissed at him. I ask because that is an important first step. Look a bad act does not make you an evil person, it is how you handle it is what counts now. I often tell BS and I am telling you the same. Work at being the person YOU respect. I love the post by Pixe about her husband who's first wife cheated. Let me know if you want it, I will look it up for you,

 

This thread has wandered from your request. My post where to help you see what was actually going on in the hope it will make moving on easier. Take care I do wish you well and I hope I helped you.

 

Be well, be aware.

[Arieswoman]

JerseyBR,

Having read your post again I now see your point about the WS trying to fill a void.

 

What the BS needs to realise is that void is within the WS and it probably isn't within the power of the BS to fill it.

 

IMO WSs are just empty, needy people, who are desperately looking outside themselves to fill the gap in themselves. These unaddressed voids in themselves (e.g., a desperate need for attention and love; a constant feeling of loneliness; a constant need for validation; a sense of insecurity etc etc) drive them into the arms of others which creates more problems than it solves.

 

Some have narcissistic traits which mean that no-one will ever be enough for them.

 

I was married to someone who was an "emotional vampire". After 5 years I was emotionally bled white and couldn't give any more. I told him he needed to start putting something into the marriage. His response was to cheat ! So I set him free to be with this person and now he's her problem

[heartwhole]

Agreed. Nor is it fair to tell OW that the MM is only staying with his wife out of a sense of duty, which was my point. How is that helpful? If I was an OW and someone was telling me that MM loves me but he's only staying with his wife for money, I would probably continue to hold out hope that he would break the spell and come be with me someday.

 

I don't disagree with you. I just think that for real healing and growth to take place, all parties need to see the situation for what it was. And that includes genuine affection on the part of the MM. But that also includes the realities of life, the fact that the affection was born out of secrecy and excitement and probably would not translate into a life-long real world love, the fact that the MM is not being truthful about his relationship with his BW during the affair, etc. It's an oversimplification to say, "He obviously didn't love you! He loves his wife. Case closed." And when you oversimplify, you risk missing the opportunity for true self-awareness and growth. You cast various actors as villains (first the BW, then the MM) so you don't have to get to the bottom of why you entered that relationship in the first place.

[Jersey born raised]

Arieswoman, your right. In the future I will include your thoughts in any post.

 

A great movie scene I would love to see: spouse one: it's not you, it's me babe. Spouse 2: mulls over the statement, looks at spouse one and says "you know, your right" gets up and leaves and never looks back.

 

LMAO !! I can see the shock on spouse 1 face. "your right it s you"! Cracks me up.

[ChickiePops]

I don't disagree with you. I just think that for real healing and growth to take place, all parties need to see the situation for what it was. And that includes genuine affection on the part of the MM. But that also includes the realities of life, the fact that the affection was born out of secrecy and excitement and probably would not translate into a life-long real world love, the fact that the MM is not being truthful about his relationship with his BW during the affair, etc. It's an oversimplification to say, "He obviously didn't love you! He loves his wife. Case closed." And when you oversimplify, you risk missing the opportunity for true self-awareness and growth. You cast various actors as villains (first the BW, then the MM) so you don't have to get to the bottom of why you entered that relationship in the first place.

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think it's healthy to over-analyze ANY past relationship for too long, affair or not. I think that telling someone that an ex that they're still hurting over loves them is counter-productive.

 

It's over. It's time to get angry, and hopefully to look inwardly for reasons that you were willing to compromise your own well-being (as affairs don't usually end well, as we all know) for this person, not to be nostalgic and worry about how he felt in the throes of the affair. I would give the same advice to people going through a non-affair break up.

 

I never said MM didn't love her, I said I don't think it's healthy to encourage her to talk about if or, if he did, how much, he did. He chose his wife and affairs hurt people. That's all she needs to know. The very last thing she needs right now is any inkling of hope that he will come back. She needs to figure out how not to let that happen.

[Pili-Pala]

I don't disagree with you. I just think that for real healing and growth to take place, all parties need to see the situation for what it was. And that includes genuine affection on the part of the MM. But that also includes the realities of life, the fact that the affection was born out of secrecy and excitement and probably would not translate into a life-long real world love, the fact that the MM is not being truthful about his relationship with his BW during the affair, etc. It's an oversimplification to say, "He obviously didn't love you! He loves his wife. Case closed." And when you oversimplify, you risk missing the opportunity for true self-awareness and growth. You cast various actors as villains (first the BW, then the MM) so you don't have to get to the bottom of why you entered that relationship in the first place.

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think it's healthy to over-analyze ANY past relationship for too long, affair or not. I think that telling someone that an ex that they're still hurting over loves them is counter-productive.

 

It's over. It's time to get angry, and hopefully to look inwardly for reasons that you were willing to compromise your own well-being (as affairs don't usually end well, as we all know) for this person, not to be nostalgic and worry about how he felt in the throes of the affair. I would give the same advice to people going through a non-affair break up.

 

I never said MM didn't love her, I said I don't think it's healthy to encourage her to talk about if or, if he did, how much, he did. He chose his wife and affairs hurt people. That's all she needs to know. The very last thing she needs right now is any inkling of hope that he will come back. She needs to figure out how not to let that happen.

 

On and after dday my xMM told his W that he didn't love her (anymore), that he tried. He left on dday and went back the same night because his daughter was hysterical. He told his W he was sorry for what he'd done, he told her he did love her really and he shouldn't have said he didn't, he told her that he and I weren't real and didn't mean anything. Afterwards they slept in separate rooms. After some time passed she practically had to beg him to show affection to her. They continued to sleep separately, live separately, and she continued to ask him to hug her and hold her hand and buy her flowers. He planned to leave, found a flat but seemed incapable of actually ever going through with it, of taking that final step. I eventually saw he would not leave and walked away, for my sake mainly, but also as I could see they would never work on their M whilst I was still in the picture. Three weeks have passed and xMM texts me and tells me his life is unbearable without me and his family is falling apart, but yet there he stays and today he has left for a two week family vacation....

 

My point in saying all this is - who the hell knows why my xMM stays. In a way I think you are both right. Perhaps the OW should recognise that there might be many many different reasons xMM stays, many of which likely have nothing to do with you as a person or whether he truly felt anything for you. But also to recognise that the whys should not be the main focus and that the main focus is *he has chosen to stay*. For the OW the whys should be irrevalent. The peace comes in the acceptance that this is what he has chosen. I have heard Satu say many times "he is exactly where he wants to be" (or something like that)... perhaps it is fairer to say "he is where he is". The result is the same.

 

He is where he is. You are where you are. Time to accept that and move forward and leave him behind where he has chosen to stay, until hopefully, one day, he is just a dot in the distance, and when you squint your eyes from the sunshine you can't even see it him at all. At least that is what I am aiming for.

 

OP, try to stop worrying about the how and why of your xMM's erratic behaviour. I hope you can walk away from your him, and keep walking.