Common expenses while dating

[RecentChange]

I have to say, this thread has me litterally scratching my head. From what I can tell you have "settled" for this guy you don't really like because you have decided you are getting too old to be single.

 

No Go... care to humor me with a little exercise?

 

When you think of him, how do you feel?

 

How does he make you feel when you are together?

 

What is it about him that makes you RESPECT him?

 

What qualities does he have that you admire?

 

How does he make you a better person? How do you make him a better person?

 

What sort of father do you envision him being? What qualities would he pass on to his children?

[Dolfin80]

Where do you live Dolfin if I may ask? When I used to live in the Netherlands I've seen exactly the same as you described - equal financial contributions for dating/cohabitation, equal parental leave for moms and dads etc.

 

In the US the dating arena is very different. I realized it very late though after being used from guys that speculated with my generosity.

 

Australia. Women have a lot of rights here. It's normal here for childless married couples to have separate bank accounts and only one shared account for household expenses e.g. Mortgage and shared bills.

 

I get paid the same income as any male, we are on the same salaries. Gender is irrelevant.

 

There is Childcare Facility at my workplace to keep men and women in full time work. Some men choose to be stay at home dads and the women works full time.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Dolfin80

[No_Go]

Great, exactly my experience although it is completely different part of the world. Like you I was raised that earning is gender irrelevant, so as parenting responsibilities etc. I have a doctoral degree and good potential to out earn the majority of the single men at least in my age range (30-40).

 

My BF sees it differently. His last words were that the goal is to 'pull all the money' together in the future. I wonder if he'll think the same if I was on welfare or minimum wage... I don't think so

 

Australia. Women have a lot of rights here. It's normal here for childless married couples to have separate bank accounts and only one shared account for household expenses e.g. Mortgage and shared bills.

 

I get paid the same income as any male, we are on the same salaries. Gender is irrelevant.

 

There is Childcare Facility at my workplace to keep men and women in full time work. Some men choose to be sta\= at home dads and the women works full time.

[No_Go]

Many good points Lucy. I believe we both do not have deep emotional commitment. He's committed to me because it serves him a purpose... But that's about how deep it gets.

 

I'm trying to communicate clearer with him but because I was biting my tongue for so long... Now it comes as bursts of anger, I don't like that but I'm just on the verge of extreme frustration.

 

I had my goals before meeting him. I met him at the age of 30 - I had mapped my future way before then. I'd love building future together, but seems like he mapped his steps too .... and is just keeping me around because I confirm to his desires.

 

His biggest issue is selfishness, coupled/caused by immaturity. He's a good person otherwise and has the potential of being a good life partner.

 

I'd do the coming together first planning after if I was 20 and infatuated, but I'm not... So my logic comes first.

 

In the long run I think it would be unusual for a relationship to be exactly 5050 on everyhing. One partner may have more time while the other earns more money. Someone can be better at cooking while the other enjoys managing bills. It may not be practical or efficent to split up all chores and expenses down the middle. I mean, one of the best parts abot being with someone is finding ways in which they complement you, helping you be stronger together as a team than by yourselves. The important thing is that both parties feel like the other is pulling his weight, value the contributions of the other, and feel like they are working toward the same goals.

 

Reading the OPs posts, the biggest red flag to me is the apparent disconnect between her emotional commitment to the relationship, and her expectations. On the one hand, she is cohabiting with him with the intent of buying a house together in a year. On the other hand, she cinsiders her financial goals separate from his and makes it clear she will proceed on her own if hes not ready. She also does not want to communicate her issues/ houghts, expecting him to perform according to her expectations regardless. This bifurcated approach seems like it would be destined to fail. IMO, either you are committed to a future with someone, or youre not.

 

Re: whether their arrangement is fair- based on her description, it seems pretty fair to me. Her bf does all the shopping, driving and cooking. They split the bills in half. It seems petty to take iasue with the fact that he is consuming a little bit more, especially when he seems to contribute more of his time.

 

From her tone, it does not seem like she loves or respects this guy very much. It seems like she is evaluating him solely from the perspective of whether or not he will help her realize her financial goals. Not saying thats not an important factor, but normally couples want to be together first, and then try to figure out how to accomplish those goals together after.

[No_Go]

He skewed it as 'pooling money' as a marriage training haha, even if married I'd never pull ALL my money together with him or anybody else unless they prove themselves as being a responsible spender.

 

He just went for groceries - no invitation to go together, he wants to do it HIS way. So I have no intention of doing housework for him HIS way. I do my laundry and stuff obviously and used to hire a cleaning lady, he's frowning upon that because it's nit HIS way...

 

i haven't commented about the OP housework at all, so no glossing her. The OP might do all the mowing, gardening, gutter and pool cleaning we don't know. I haven't commented on this at all as I don't know any details.

 

All that I know is every man I've lived with has bought his own deodorant. I've never had to pay for it. So I don't believe she has to pay for his either. I would think it's strange if someone asked me to pay for their deodorant. My guys usually buy their own deodorant in bulk on special so I'm not even at the shops with them when they buy it. It's their responsibility. I don't have anything to do with there personal hygiene purchases.

 

I would never make a guy pay for my menstral pads no matter how much housework I do.

[Dolfin80]

He skewed it as 'pooling money' as a marriage training haha, even if married I'd never pull ALL my money together with him or anybody else unless they prove themselves as being a responsible spender.

 

He just went for groceries - no invitation to go together, he wants to do it HIS way. So I have no intention of doing housework for him HIS way. I do my laundry and stuff obviously and used to hire a cleaning lady, he's frowning upon that because it's nit HIS way...

 

I can't see any happiness in living this way. It's like you too are enemies.

 

I have special dietary needs for a medical condition, so it's vital for me to eat the right food.

[No_Go]

Ours is more like roommate situation because he asked me to move in to help him pay his bills (his roommate left). I always felt like he need me around to support his lavish lifestyle... He could have easily lived in a studio by himself, but wanted a 2 bedroom...

 

And we do make a good bulk sum together and individually ... Just really makes no sense to have arguments about money, it is about lack of consideration more than anything...

 

If we were married AND planning future it will be different ... Now we're roommates sharing a bed.

 

I know my story is from a long time ago, but my wife lived together for around two years before getting married. Before we even started, I was helping pay for "our" apartment, and I was still in High School, when she lost her job, and I was not living with her, I paid for all the bills, until she got another one. When I first moved in, she paid for everything, and I soon got a job, and everything went into a common pot and we paid all expenses for that. Have to say, our expenses were low, and we always had money for fun, and had a lot of it. In fact, we were probably the richest at that time, as most of our money was free to have fun with. latter in life, with a house, car, kids, we made ore but it was tagged for all these things, not leaving much for just fun. So when we finally made it official, and got married, we really had been for 2 years. I know I wanted to be with her, and she me, so money was just something we looked at as a common thing.

 

Maybe, what every one is describing, is a roommate, not a relationship. So if you thought that you were going to spend the rest of your life with the one you are living with now, would you see money differently, or is this just a living arrangement with sex as a side benefit?

 

My two cents........

[No_Go]

What the heck is triangulation? I either know different meaning of this word, or you have very weird perspective.

 

He doesn't want to leave. He withstand ex 7 days of every day arguments - never wanted to leave. He's leaving the decision up to me for God know what reasons he has...

 

I fully agree, with the coldness and the controlling mentality this looks beyond being taken for granted.

 

Having had the misfortune of being caught up in Triangulation in the past, it wouldn't even surprise me if I found that some of his faults were in fact completely made up.

 

I hope he leaves for his own sanity.

[No_Go]

Triangulation, triangulation and more narcissism. There is no love in this thread. The poor guy. I hope he leaves before he is emotionally abused.

 

Hope is clear who is the narcissist here... I do not think I'm one , sorry.

 

He stays for reasons unclear to me, not love indeed.

[Dolfin80]

OP as a funny side note. I lived with a partner once who divided the pantry cupboard. His food was in one section, I was told to put mine in the other. I was lolzzzzz when he showed me this 'rule'. So some partners house rules are really outrageous.

[No_Go]

On the first statement - yes, so does he. I'm not afraid to admit it. I've been attracted to him and found his lifestyle compatible until recently. On your questions, in order:

 

I feel like I'm thinking of a family member. Someone there, he'll annoy me, I'll forgive him, we won't be alone.

 

Generally, safe, calms me down.

 

He is a man of his word. He's committed to what he says he'll be.

 

The above, he's also witty, smart, I'm attracted to him besides he's far from my usual type. He has integrity.

 

I feel safe when with him. He proven he'll stay with me in bad times. I ve done the same for him.

 

He'll be a good father - he's actively researching how to better himself for that time.

 

I have to say, this thread has me litterally scratching my head. From what I can tell you have "settled" for this guy you don't really like because you have decided you are getting too old to be single.

 

No Go... care to humor me with a little exercise?

 

When you think of him, how do you feel?

 

How does he make you feel when you are together?

 

What is it about him that makes you RESPECT him?

 

What qualities does he have that you admire?

 

How does he make you a better person? How do you make him a better person?

 

What sort of father do you envision him being? What qualities would he pass on to his children?

[No_Go]

So with the tax day - new things got clear. He's actually having HIGHER income than me - like 10%. But this doesn't stop him from having NOTHING for retirement (at the end of his 30s) and asking me for > 50% of the living expenses... Is this salvageable or I should break free of him? I just wonder how I managed to accumulate resentment but now I see it more clearly...

 

And another thing - he seems to be butthurt when I say that he's old. But again, the thing that hits me most is his lack of planning at his middle aged life, if he was 23 I'll be much more gracious... But nearing 40 - it is unheard off...

Edited April 14, 2016 by No_Go

[RecentChange]

My advice? End it. You sound like warm about him at best. Resentment, disagreements in finances etc are not the way to start a relationship.

 

Find someone you are PASSIONATE about, and someone you share financial views with etc.

[Dolfin80]

So with the tax day - new things got clear. He's actually having HIGHER income than me - like 10%. But this doesn't stop him from having NOTHING for retirement (at the end of his 30s) and asking me for > 50% of the living expenses... Is this salvageable or I should break free of him? I just wonder how I managed to accumulate resentment but now I see it more clearly...

 

And another thing - he seems to be butthurt when I say that he's old. But again, the thing that hits me most is his lack of planning at his middle aged life, if he was 23 I'll be much more gracious... But nearing 40 - it is unheard off...

 

A lot of people dont plan for their retirement. Some dont think they even live long enough to retire. So not unusual at all. My dad always thought he'd drop dead before retirement and guess what he almost did. If it wasnt for a helicoper available to get him to the hospital he would not have survived.

[No_Go]

Sounds morbid, but guess what happens to these pessimists that do make it to retirement: their spouses and kids become their sponge to live off...

 

I'd be VERY unhappy if he mooches off my life savings at old age just cause he was too lazy and irresponsible to plan. I haven't skipped a month saving for retirement after my early 20s, despite my low income while working on my dissertation.

 

A lot of people dont plan for their retirement. Some dont think they even live long enough to retire. So not unusual at all. My dad always thought he'd drop dead before retirement and guess what he almost did. If it wasnt for a helicoper available to get him to the hospital he would not have survived.

[No_Go]

I don't know RC... I see good things about him, see #138.

 

The guys that I felt truly passionate about were the ones that hurt me most. Actually I've been thinking that way for a long time only for one man... In 31 years. Here and there a small 'blip' of passion, but never consistent.

 

So I'd either give up and stay alone (not terrible but I want kids, and also don't like to spend time 'dating', I have other things to focus on), accept an ok man and grow into him (like I'm trying now), or look for a great passion with the risk to be played (trust me, most of the passion is machinated by the person doing the courting... I learned it the hard way).

 

I'm thinking maybe my current BF is just not that into me and it reflects on my attitude to him respectively?

 

My advice? End it. You sound like warm about him at best. Resentment, disagreements in finances etc are not the way to start a relationship.

 

Find someone you are PASSIONATE about, and someone you share financial views with etc.

[RecentChange]

Here are my thoughts.

 

Marriage can be HARD. There will be great difficulties to over come - its just the way it is when people are together for the long haul. If you do not have a strong love for the other, a strong desire to be with them FOREVER, a commitment to join together and over come challenges together - I can't imagine it working in the long haul.

 

Add kids to the mix? Now we are talking about a whole new level of stress and challenge presented to the couple. A couple must be VERY strong in their love and COMMITMENT to each other to stay together, and happily raise children.

 

Can you have that level of commitment with someone you do not feel passionately about? Maybe you can. I know I can't - I would find it too easy to walk away if I didn't have a crazy strong love / passion for him.

 

I don't think wanting kids is a good reason to settle with a "I guess he will do" guy.

 

Other thing that popped in my head - "well, I guess arranged marriages often work" - they don't start out based on passion, or love - but, arranged marriages are usually not based on equitable power dynamics either.

 

And I think you two not seeing eye to eye on finances IS a very big issue. Its usually on the list of most common causes for divorce.

 

And yeah, then that kid thing again:

 

Kids Can Make a Beautiful Marriage Ugly

[No_Go]

Yeah I can see that... Extra stress (kids etc) can ruin even very mentally sound people / couples. I know a few.

 

I believe the success of arranged marriages has been measured as similar to the one of 'passion' marriages - but I see your point this could be for power reasons or related (family, culture).

 

One thing is for sure - unless we straighten out finances, I'm never merging my money with his. If this means no marriage - I'm ok with it. He seems more amenable recently - we either have had our growing pains, or it is time to part ways.

 

Here are my thoughts.

 

Marriage can be HARD. There will be great difficulties to over come - its just the way it is when people are together for the long haul. If you do not have a strong love for the other, a strong desire to be with them FOREVER, a commitment to join together and over come challenges together - I can't imagine it working in the long haul.

 

Add kids to the mix? Now we are talking about a whole new level of stress and challenge presented to the couple. A couple must be VERY strong in their love and COMMITMENT to each other to stay together, and happily raise children.

 

Can you have that level of commitment with someone you do not feel passionately about? Maybe you can. I know I can't - I would find it too easy to walk away if I didn't have a crazy strong love / passion for him.

 

I don't think wanting kids is a good reason to settle with a "I guess he will do" guy.

 

Other thing that popped in my head - "well, I guess arranged marriages often work" - they don't start out based on passion, or love - but, arranged marriages are usually not based on equitable power dynamics either.

 

And I think you two not seeing eye to eye on finances IS a very big issue. Its usually on the list of most common causes for divorce.

 

And yeah, then that kid thing again:

 

Kids Can Make a Beautiful Marriage Ugly

[Dolfin80]

Sounds morbid, but guess what happens to these pessimists that do make it to retirement: their spouses and kids become their sponge to live off...

 

I'd be VERY unhappy if he mooches off my life savings at old age just cause he was too lazy and irresponsible to plan. I haven't skipped a month saving for retirement after my early 20s, despite my low income while working on my dissertation.

 

Not at all here as retirees are entitled to the old age pension. Government pays so mooching not required. My mum couldnt work as she disabled, dad has taken care of her her whole life.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Dolfin80

[No_Go]

Ah I was commenting about the situation in the US. It is a totally different story in more social countries.

 

For my BF no savings = he'll use me as life support if we stay together ... He's able-bodied, just lazy and pretentious (he wants it all, now, like a toddler)... That's why I'm not willing to be his sponging mechanism, I'd gladly do it for someone who is just in a bad situation...

 

Not at all here as retirees are entitled to the old age pension. Government pays so mooching not required. My mum couldnt work as she disabled, dad has taken care of her her whole life.

[clia]

So with the tax day - new things got clear. He's actually having HIGHER income than me - like 10%. But this doesn't stop him from having NOTHING for retirement (at the end of his 30s) and asking me for > 50% of the living expenses... Is this salvageable or I should break free of him? I just wonder how I managed to accumulate resentment but now I see it more clearly...

 

And another thing - he seems to be butthurt when I say that he's old. But again, the thing that hits me most is his lack of planning at his middle aged life, if he was 23 I'll be much more gracious... But nearing 40 - it is unheard off...

 

He's not even contributing to a 401(k) or whatever through his work?

 

All is not lost -- he still has nearly 30 years, or more, to save for retirement. I'm like you -- I started saving in my early 20s for retirement. But you have to understand that most people out there don't do that. It's not rare for people to start thinking about it in their 30s or even 40s. Even if you dump this guy and try to find someone else, you may have a hard time finding someone equivalent to you. I'd say the fact that he has a high income (which can also be hard to find) means you can work with it, provided he is willing. But you need to talk to him about this and his plan for the future. Is he willing to change and start saving?

 

But you seem so resentful of him already due to this, and have been since the relationship started. Can you even work with him on this stuff? Have you talked budget with him? Does he have any idea you are so mad over it all? Because the amounts you are talking seem so trivial...his few personal items versus your $10 lunch (or whatever). If you are nickel and diming over this stuff, and putting no value on the things he does around the house, I just can't see this getting better for you. It's never going to be exactly a 50/50 split when you are living with someone.

[Phoebe]

My financial situation with my ex-boyfriend was that I owned a townhouse, we agreed a fixed figure that he would pay each month for bills (half mortgage/utilities/internet etc). He was paying "rent", he was not under the impression that he was entitled to any kind of ownership of the townhouse and when repairs came along he was not expected to pay anything towards them.

 

We also came up with a fixed figure for grocery shopping. I have 2 dogs and a cat, their food/litter come out of the household budget, along with basic grooming/cleaning supplies like razors, deodorant. He was not expected to contribute to any vet bills, he did sometimes ask if there was enough room in the budget for health supplements. If there was we got them.

 

He is terrible with money, he could win the lottery tonight and things wouldn't change that much. It is one of his biggest weakness, luckily as a couple I was a lot stronger in that aspect. He asked me to take control of his finances, I had complete access to his bank account and card. I made sure his bills were paid on time and let him know how much he had to work with and handed out (for lack of a better word) his "allowance". Everything was on a spreadsheet so if he had any questions I could show him where his money had gone.

 

If we had stayed together / end up getting back together then I will always be in charge of the finances. We make about the same amount of money at the same workplace but he has more debt and outgoings than I do. I paid for about 99.9% of eating/going out, if there was a short fall in his budget then I would make up the difference. Some people at work call him cheap but the simple truth is he just doesn't have the money. It did put a bit of a strain on the relationship, but for the most part it was working. It might sound somewhat controlling on my part but it was something that he wanted and since we split he has brought up the subject of me taking over his finances again even though we're not together.

[Xelha]

My bf and I split most of our expenses(rent, electricity, food, water, internet) 50/50. He makes about double what I make, but I still feel like it's a fair arrangement because I don't want to be pulling him down with my low salary or keeping him from saving up money as he likes to do. It was also primarily my idea for us to move in together, so I wouldn't be comfortable with any other set up. If we were married and had a joint account maybe it would be different, but not in our current situation.

 

For food we have a set monthly amount that we spend and we each contribute half. Typically cosmetics and toiletries would not factor into this, unless it was just something small for a few dollars. Or, if it were more expensive like razors or make-up we would offer to pay for it separately unless the other "approved" it on the grocery bill.

 

For transportation my bf has his own car. He pays car insurance and gas, but we split the monthly parking cost(which is pretty expensive). I have my own transit pass to pay for and with how little I make, I just can't offer any more than I am. He understands.

 

When we go out to eat, we take turns paying. We don't keep track of how much we spend, but we just base it on whoever seems to have been paying more... then the other person will automatically offer to pay.

 

In general we don't argue about expenses. I think our mostly 50/50 approach has been very effective. It has, however, required a lot of initiative and trust on behalf of both of us.

[No_Go]

He's contributing but the bare minimum. He was EXTREMELY irresponsible when younger. Every time he didn't like a job/boss, he took his belongings and moved to another one in a new city/state, burning tons of cash respectively. Last laudable move: he burned 10K of his 401K to buy furniture:/??? I just can't believe his stories.... Sound so insane to me.

 

Now, for the 13 months that we're dating, he paid off his student loan (at 38!!), bumped his credit from miserable score in the 600s to low 700 (which yet doesn't make him good coborower with me if need be....), and now is trying to start putting more than the bare minimum for retirement... I'd push him to do 10-20% but this will mean he'll not save anything for the house, that HE wants to participate in buying with me (I'm perfectly fine doing it alone, but then he'll be renter, not co-owner). He says he'll work till 70 - but angain, tha's wishful thinking, will he even be able-bodied by then? I feel like everything after 60 shouldn't be taken for granted... And since I started young, I want to travel etc when older, not care for somebody who was so irresponsible in his youth (If he was sick, the game will be obviously different, then I'd gladly support him. But he was just a rotten spoilt single kid depending on daddy till his early 30s).

 

He's not a horrible person. He just found ways to get along with life, and I think he was planning to live that way until its possible. When he reaches a brick wall, he steps up. But I don't want to be this brick wall because I'm afraid he'll start resenting me.

 

On the bright side, he did make quite some changes after I asked him to (the described above, cutting nonsensical cable bills etc) - so he's very 'workable' so to speak. I just don't enjoy mentoring a near-40 year old man. But it IS doable from what I've seen. Which I think is fairly rare in his age group (people get rigid and stubborn sometimes...).

 

I was terrible because I didn't tell him that I was mad till recently, and it was not a reasonable conversation but a burst of fights... I just couldn't hold it any longer So now he knows pretty much everything... Not in a good way but he does... On one side I feel guilty that it happened that way, on the other side - it was probably the only way to move forward.

 

He refuses making a budget - he makes changes but I feel like he wants to 'keep the control' by not letting me/us make a formal budget.

 

I'm really not a nickel and dime person... I've always been the one to pick the tab for my friends, never even though to keep track of them I have done it because I like it and I'm happy to make them happy. He's just so inconsiderate and honestly, cheap (as said he makes a bit more than me), that I don't feel like doing things for him. This will just make him ask for more.. and more... That's how it was when we started dating, before I start getting resentful.

 

I had 2 roommates before - we NEVER had the discussion who buys what, because we were happy to treat each other, nobody speculated, we were just happy to eat together and enjoy the company.

 

I do appreciate what he's doing in the house. I have to say - I NEVER asked for it. He likes doing it, he is good at it, he's indeed saving me time. But how to get over his lack of consideration and responsibility? Besides everything, I'm really trying to make it work because as said, he has qualities...

 

He's not even contributing to a 401(k) or whatever through his work?

 

All is not lost -- he still has nearly 30 years, or more, to save for retirement. I'm like you -- I started saving in my early 20s for retirement. But you have to understand that most people out there don't do that. It's not rare for people to start thinking about it in their 30s or even 40s. Even if you dump this guy and try to find someone else, you may have a hard time finding someone equivalent to you. I'd say the fact that he has a high income (which can also be hard to find) means you can work with it, provided he is willing. But you need to talk to him about this and his plan for the future. Is he willing to change and start saving?

 

But you seem so resentful of him already due to this, and have been since the relationship started. Can you even work with him on this stuff? Have you talked budget with him? Does he have any idea you are so mad over it all? Because the amounts you are talking seem so trivial...his few personal items versus your $10 lunch (or whatever). If you are nickel and diming over this stuff, and putting no value on the things he does around the house, I just can't see this getting better for you. It's never going to be exactly a 50/50 split when you are living with someone.

[No_Go]

I love how you managed to make it work with him! Besides being irresponsible, he showed you TRUST and you didn't speculate with it.

 

If I was given similar responsibility, I'd make him a rich person within an ear He's just clueless what to do with his money, he makes enough but wastes them

 

My financial situation with my ex-boyfriend was that I owned a townhouse, we agreed a fixed figure that he would pay each month for bills (half mortgage/utilities/internet etc). He was paying "rent", he was not under the impression that he was entitled to any kind of ownership of the townhouse and when repairs came along he was not expected to pay anything towards them.

 

We also came up with a fixed figure for grocery shopping. I have 2 dogs and a cat, their food/litter come out of the household budget, along with basic grooming/cleaning supplies like razors, deodorant. He was not expected to contribute to any vet bills, he did sometimes ask if there was enough room in the budget for health supplements. If there was we got them.

 

He is terrible with money, he could win the lottery tonight and things wouldn't change that much. It is one of his biggest weakness, luckily as a couple I was a lot stronger in that aspect. He asked me to take control of his finances, I had complete access to his bank account and card. I made sure his bills were paid on time and let him know how much he had to work with and handed out (for lack of a better word) his "allowance". Everything was on a spreadsheet so if he had any questions I could show him where his money had gone.

 

If we had stayed together / end up getting back together then I will always be in charge of the finances. We make about the same amount of money at the same workplace but he has more debt and outgoings than I do. I paid for about 99.9% of eating/going out, if there was a short fall in his budget then I would make up the difference. Some people at work call him cheap but the simple truth is he just doesn't have the money. It did put a bit of a strain on the relationship, but for the most part it was working. It might sound somewhat controlling on my part but it was something that he wanted and since we split he has brought up the subject of me taking over his finances again even though we're not together.