Self-Esteem: Let's discusss

[moimeme]

The need to the be the center of attention or the need for everyone to like you has nothing to do with confidence. If anything, its the exact opposite of confidence, as its relying on others for your own validation.

 

Confidence is being able to walk into a movie theatre alone on a Saturday Night to watch a movie with an entire theatre full of noodling couples. Confidence is being able to walk into a nice restaurant for dinner and say to the hostess "Table for 1, Please".

 

Exactamundo! Nice to see ya back, InmannR!

 

Isn't a metro-sexual the antithesis of "confident and secure?"

 

Why? The metrosexual is confident enough to do what he enjoys doing to make him feel and look good no matter whether or not someone considers him 'gay' for doing so. If he's doing it because he thinks he needs to to be accepted, then yes it might mean he's insecure but if he does it because he likes how it feels/looks, then it is confidence and security being expressed.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by moimeme

Why? The metrosexual is confident enough to do what he enjoys doing to make him feel and look good no matter whether or not someone considers him 'gay' for doing so.

 

The obsession with ones appearance is and of itself an indication they do not accept who they are and thus, are not confident or self-assured.

 

If he's doing it because he thinks he needs to to be accepted, then yes it might mean he's insecure but if he does it because he likes how it feels/looks, then it is confidence and security being expressed.

 

That's sorta what I was getting at. Most "metro-sexuals" are obsessed with looking good. It's a good example of what happens to a man when he doesn't spend enough time with his father growing up.

 

Have you ever seen a young man that has grown up working on a farm (or has spent significant time with his father) become a metro-sexual?! I grew up around men like this and I can't remember any of them becoming metro-sexuals....or even gay for that matter.

 

THIS IS JUST MY EXPERIENCE AND MY OPINION. I am not stating it as fact, just what I've observed.

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by ConfusedInOC

Have you ever seen a young man that has grown up working on a farm (or has spent significant time with his father) become a metro-sexual?! I grew up around men like this and I can't remember any of them becoming metro-sexuals....or even gay for that matter.

 

THIS IS JUST MY EXPERIENCE AND MY OPINION. I am not stating it as fact, just what I've observed.

 

OMG, gay rednecks are hilarious. I live in the swamp, so the only gay club in town is full of gay rednecks and it cracks me UP. I mean, these are seious rednecks, too...

 

I always wonder how they can reconcile being gay with their ultra conservative pro-Bush politics, too.

 

Anyways, I must admit to a certain disdain for dudes who spend 20+ minutes fixing their hair, etc.

[relention]

im the sort of person who people would think hasnt got low self esteem but i really do....it all depends on who im with. I didnt really have a low self esteem until I got a boyfriend....before that i was basically take me as i am and if u dont like it **** off

 

but ever since ive been going out with my bf (over 4 years now) i have really low self esteem, basically because i feel that im not good enough for him, im not pretty enough for him.....i used to not care that i wasnt that great looking but when i found someone it all just made me feel so insecure as i feel i have to be pretty or try and be prettier......

 

when it comes to self esteem in my appearance though he has done nothing wrong at all, he thinkts im the most beautiful girl, inside and out

 

but it still doesnt stop me being so insecure.......not only on appearance but more on my personality...i feel so horrible nearly every day about how i am....and i really wish i could change but i just cant seem too. i want to become a better person not only for myself but for other people

 

i was thinking of getting some books to read, does anyone know of any good ones?

 

just thought id share my thoughts

 

thanks

[tanbark813]

Originally posted by ConfusedInOC

Seriously, I only have me to go on so the advice from Counseling, the books and what I have learned, I tend to share. I don't give a flip if it p*sses Moimeme or anyone else off. If I have info to share and I feel it will be beneficial, I'll share anyway.

 

Exactly, bro. I said "discuss" because I wanted to get other opinions. I think a LOT of people here have self-esteem issues or they wouldn't be here. I see similar topics over and over and most of them can be traced to self-confidence/self-esteem issues. I am not saying what works for me is a sure-fire shot to work for everyone else, I merely wanted to bring the topic up for debate because as far as I can see it's much needed and not discussed.

 

Not to bash you, CIOC, but there's a lot of hypocrisy and self-righteousness in this post. You have your counselor, the books you've read, and your own experiences to use for personal growth and to serve as your perspective for this board. Other people on this board have read self help books, or have been to counseling, and have most certainly had their own experiences. And yet you seem to make a distinction between you and everyone else. If moimeme posts her opinion, it's her assuming something false. But when you post your opinion, it's you sharing with us your knowledge. Not only is that hypocritical, but it insults the intelligence of other posters on the board.

 

You've said in other posts that your counselor has warned you about listening to the advice of jilted lovers on a relationship forum. While there is some truth to that, you yourself fall into that category. That warning from your counselor that you stick so closely to basically negates any advice you might post yourself. Taking that one step further, one might argue that by listening to that bit of advice of your counselor, any subsequent advice of your own fails to carry validity.

 

I also think that this:

"I see similar topics over and over and most of them can be traced to self-confidence/self-esteem issues."

 

contradicts this:

"I am not saying what works for me is a sure-fire shot to work for everyone else"

 

If your newfound confidence really is working for you, then why do we see posts from you over and over that stem from a lack of self-esteem as well?

 

I'm not saying you shouldn't give advice, and I'm not saying your self-improvement process is a waste of time or a failure by any means, but I do think that you're so intently focused on your own improvement that that's all you can see, rather than stepping back for a minute and taking in the big picture.

[terlik]

I don't mean to fight with you. guys, or anything like that, but ConfusedInOC said: "We have to live in reality, the way the world really is, not as we'd like it to be." Well, I think it's natural for us, human beings, to have certain goals in life, no matter how big or small. Don't you think? And if this is true, then at that certain moment we do imagine the world as we would like it to be.

 

And if stop having goals....well I can't even imagine it. I mean it happens all the time. What about when you're hungry? You have a desire to eat, do you not? Isn't that a goal in itself? I think it is, even though it lasts for like a a few minutes only.

 

I'm sure you've all heard of those people who try to attain Nirvana, to get rid of all desires, lust and worldly possessions. It appears to me that their lives are very ironic because attaining Nirvana is a goal in itself, some kind of a desire to reach that point. So what happens is that eventually they become the thing they reject. Ironic! Do you agree?

 

In my opinion, self-esteem comes from the way you have lived, the goals you have accomplished, how often you have been put down or humiliated. But then on the other hand too much self-esteem is not good either. So I guess there must be a point, somewhere in between, where we feel comfortable and we should maintain that balance.

[BigB]

tag

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by terlik

I don't mean to fight with you. guys, or anything like that, but ConfusedInOC said: "We have to live in reality, the way the world really is, not as we'd like it to be." Well, I think it's natural for us, human beings, to have certain goals in life, no matter how big or small. Don't you think? And if this is true, then at that certain moment we do imagine the world as we would like it to be.

 

Imagining is good.

Confusing your imagination with reality is bad.

 

For instance, you can dream you own a Porche 911 GT but if you really own a Pinto and tell everyone you own a 911GT, well...that's living in your imagination and not good for your self-esteem.

 

And if stop having goals....well I can't even imagine it. I mean it happens all the time. What about when you're hungry? You have a desire to eat, do you not? Isn't that a goal in itself? I think it is, even though it lasts for like a a few minutes only.

 

When did I say having goals was bad? In fact, having ATTAINABLE goals is good. It's GREAT for self-esteem.

F.A.I.T.H. based goals even better.

 

FOCUSED

ATTAINABLE

INDIVIDUAL

TRACKABLE

HEARTFELT

 

I'm sure you've all heard of those people who try to attain Nirvana, to get rid of all desires, lust and worldly possessions. It appears to me that their lives are very ironic because attaining Nirvana is a goal in itself, some kind of a desire to reach that point. So what happens is that eventually they become the thing they reject. Ironic! Do you agree?

 

In my opinion, self-esteem comes from the way you have lived, the goals you have accomplished, how often you have been put down or humiliated. But then on the other hand too much self-esteem is not good either. So I guess there must be a point, somewhere in between, where we feel comfortable and we should maintain that balance.

 

Being put down or humiliated only effects those with low self-esteem to begin with. If your self-esteem is healthy, you won't let the opinion of others effect how you feel about yourself.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by tanbark813

Not to bash you, CIOC, but there's a lot of hypocrisy and self-righteousness in this post. You have your counselor, the books you've read, and your own experiences to use for personal growth and to serve as your perspective for this board. Other people on this board have read self help books, or have been to counseling, and have most certainly had their own experiences. And yet you seem to make a distinction between you and everyone else. If moimeme posts her opinion, it's her assuming something false. But when you post your opinion, it's you sharing with us your knowledge. Not only is that hypocritical, but it insults the intelligence of other posters on the board.

 

Is everything Moimeme says correct?

Is everything I say correct?

 

Probably not. But if I disagree with her, I'm not going to whimper off or disregard it. If someone thinks I am wrong, "nut it up" and tell me. I'm not going to get upset about it. The wonderful thing about a discussion forum is we all have opinions and can express them.

 

You've said in other posts that your counselor has warned you about listening to the advice of jilted lovers on a relationship forum. While there is some truth to that, you yourself fall into that category. That warning from your counselor that you stick so closely to basically negates any advice you might post yourself. Taking that one step further, one might argue that by listening to that bit of advice of your counselor, any subsequent advice of your own fails to carry validity.

 

That would ring true if I was posting about things I have no experience with. My posts are things, as you have well seen, that have directly effected me or that I have direct experience with. I give my opinion and yes, sometimes it's a strong one, but I am not twisting anyone's arm to take my advice either. As with any opinion, it's only worth the weight you give to it.

 

I also think that this:

"I see similar topics over and over and most of them can be traced to self-confidence/self-esteem issues."

 

contradicts this:

"I am not saying what works for me is a sure-fire shot to work for everyone else"

 

How on earth can you correlate that to a contradiction?!?!

 

The first says "A lot of topics can be traced to a lack of self-esteem" the second is a disclaimer, basically saying most of what I say is my opinion, not to be taken for Gospel and certainly doesn't work in EVERY situation.

 

You been smoking some funny green stuff?

 

If your newfound confidence really is working for you, then why do we see posts from you over and over that stem from a lack of self-esteem as well?

 

I never said I was cured. Much like "working out your body", conditioning your mind takes time and requires you to work on it every single day. There is no "instant cure" for low self-esteem and yes, I am constantly reminding myself of things I have to work on to improve it. I'm quite far from being a "finished product" and I am pretty much resigned to the fact I'll probably be working on my self-esteem for the rest of my life.

 

There is no 5 minute fix for your mind.

 

I'm not saying you shouldn't give advice, and I'm not saying your self-improvement process is a waste of time or a failure by any means, but I do think that you're so intently focused on your own improvement that that's all you can see, rather than stepping back for a minute and taking in the big picture.

 

I'm not sure what big picture you are trying to paint. The focus of this topic was to discuss self-esteem. I posted my opinion of what I see. I never said "this is the law..." I opened it for debate.

 

So....what's the problem? And I might add, I think it's good you have an opinion on what I have to say but I'm not even remotely taking it personally.

[tanbark813]

CIOC: Normally I would reply in detail but there's really no point with you. You have no desire to listen to anyone else on this board. If you listened to us 6 months ago, we would have saved you some pain you're feeling now from that b!tch who dropped you.

 

Seriously, man, it would be in your best interest to keep your mouth shut and start listening. A wise man once said: there's a reason we have two ears and only one mouth.

[Pocky]

Originally posted by terlik

I'm sure you've all heard of those people who try to attain Nirvana, to get rid of all desires, lust and worldly possessions. It appears to me that their lives are very ironic because attaining Nirvana is a goal in itself, some kind of a desire to reach that point. So what happens is that eventually they become the thing they reject. Ironic! Do you agree?

 

No, because you don't understand the process of obtaining Nirvana. It's more than just a definition of a single word. In obtaining Nirvana one does not have to rid oneself of all worldly possessions, one rids oneself of attachment to worldly possessions, just like their attachment to life and people. However, simultaneously one becomes aware of the weaknesses of the mind and the suffering of every living thing and through that their compassion and understanding increases. It is the path that enlightens them that leads them to Nirvana - Nirvana is not a single item - it is the process.

 

I have no problem with people disagreeing with religious principles, but if you're going to do so at least know the religion.

[BrotherAaron]

You know, CIOC, you are very stubborn - and, all of a sudden, you're coming off as arrogant too! Don't go down that path. It is the path to the darkside. You shouldn't be putting people down, as they've both given you some great advice, and done so with the best intentions.

 

You've got to realize that part of high self-esteem (or self-confidence) is that you shouldn't feel the need to demonstrate it. When you are truly confortable with yourself - it shows - and you no longer feel the need to convince other people that you are confortable in your own skin. As long as you feel compelled to tell everybody "I am a confident person!", you are still missing a piece of the puzzle. You are doing good, but don't stop now because you think you've solved the mystery. It's no surprise that you've still got a long way to go, because everybody does. We all have parts of ourselves that could be improved.

[moimeme]

As long as you feel compelled to tell everybody "I am a confident person!", you are still missing a piece of the puzzle.

 

Just thought that was an important point which I don't think has quite registered.

[terlik]

Originally posted by Pocky

No, because you don't understand the process of obtaining Nirvana. It's more than just a definition of a single word. In obtaining Nirvana one does not have to rid oneself of all worldly possessions, one rids oneself of attachment to worldly possessions, just like their attachment to life and people. However, simultaneously one becomes aware of the weaknesses of the mind and the suffering of every living thing and through that their compassion and understanding increases. It is the path that enlightens them that leads them to Nirvana - Nirvana is not a single item - it is the process.

 

I have no problem with people disagreeing with religious principles, but if you're going to do so at least know the religion.

 

 

 

Don't they also try to get rid of desires?

 

I didn't mean to insult anyone. Sorry if that happened. I, too, don't have problems with people disagreeing with religious principles. I think everyone should have the freedom to believe in whatever they want, right or wrong, as long as they don't harm the ones around them. So I'm not against those who seek Nirvana at all. Just expressing my opinion...(no pun intended)

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by tanbark813

CIOC: Normally I would reply in detail but there's really no point with you. You have no desire to listen to anyone else on this board. If you listened to us 6 months ago, we would have saved you some pain you're feeling now from that b!tch who dropped you.

 

Seriously, man, it would be in your best interest to keep your mouth shut and start listening. A wise man once said: there's a reason we have two ears and only one mouth.

 

That's where you're wrong, Tanbark. I listen to the advice that is sound, follows the advice given to me by my counselor and the books I have read....not from some guy who's been here for 2.5 years and his advice usually consists on solving every problem by running away from it.

 

Why not take some of your own advice? Seems it would do you some good.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by BrotherAaron

You know, CIOC, you are very stubborn - and, all of a sudden, you're coming off as arrogant too! Don't go down that path. It is the path to the darkside. You shouldn't be putting people down, as they've both given you some great advice, and done so with the best intention.

 

You've got to realize that part of high self-esteem (or self-confidence) is that you shouldn't feel the need to demonstrate it. When you are truly confortable with yourself - it shows - and you no longer feel the need to convince other people that you are confortable in your own skin. As long as you feel compelled to tell everybody "I am a confident person!", you are still missing a piece of the puzzle. You are doing good, but don't stop now because you think you've solved the mystery. It's no surprise that you've still got a long way to go, because everybody does. We all have parts of ourselves that could be improved.

 

BA, I can't see where I've done that. I've been mostly focused on trying to help people with similar problems to mine.

 

I've said it several times now that improving your self-esteem is like lifting weights. You have to work at it every day or you will never see the results you're looking for. In my case, it will probably be a problem that I'll be working on for the rest of my life.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by moimeme

As long as you feel compelled to tell everybody "I am a confident person!", you are still missing a piece of the puzzle.

 

Just thought that was an important point which I don't think has quite registered.

 

I'm not walking around saying it to people. You know what I'm doing?

 

I analyze my behavior when it's happening and run off a checklist in my head of things I need to remember or look for that display confidence or self-esteem (or the opposite). Eventually it'll just become a part of who I am. But for now, I need to remind myself (in my head).

 

For instance, yesterday playing golf when I talked, I ran the CCSM acronym through my head to make sure I wasn't saying something to just boost myself. I was very quiet and didn't talk too much. We had a guy in our group that plays Pro-Basketball in Europe and Asia. At the end of the day, I felt good about myself because I was quiet, listened more and when I did talk, got their attention. We exchanged numbers so we can play again together in the future.

 

That's all the assurance I needed that everything I have learned from Counseling and the books is starting to sink in. But I hardly think that I am "cured." When I say it out loud on LS, trust me when I saying those are the things you (whomever I am addressing or whatever issue) need to think about, I am not saying to reassure myself.

 

I understand your point and if you see me do it, please point it out.