Breaking bad dynamic with my mom

[Zapbasket]

I'd love to hear from anyone who has successfully broken longstanding bad dynamic with a close family member (parents, sibling).

 

My mom and I do love each other, and my mom has been very supportive of me in many ways and we have been "close" in that we always have talked frequently, mostly due to my desire to have her close in my life.

 

But we have never had a "good" relationship. I think my dad's suicide when I was two years old shut my mother down emotionally in many ways, and then when I was nine she married a very abusive, selfish man. They both blamed me for the problems in their relationship, and she did not stick up for me when he hit me or verbally abused me. Eventually, however, she grew so resentful of how he treated me that he left her, citing the feeling that she no longer loved him as the reason. They were divorced when I was 23, and neither of us ever saw or spoke to him again, and this was a HUGE RELIEF.

 

I kept hoping we could talk honestly about the effect he had on our lives, but she always shut it down. She continued to blame me for "not keeping my mouth shut" and thus raising the level of discord in the house with the three of us (I'm an only child). She always has reacted to me as difficult, fractious, and has little patience for my analytical and philosophical nature, often shutting me down cruelly when I'm in tears on the phone with her. Sometimes, when she's really meanly dismissive, it has hurt me deeply and I've called her a b*tch, and then she focuses on that, demanding an apology and not acknowledging how her actions may have made me feel.

 

We had an interaction in early February over the phone that followed the usual dynamic, and we haven't spoken since. I'm not angry; I just don't want to continue this dynamic any more as I feel it keeps me from growing fully into an adult and has had a great psychological effect that has affected the kinds of romantic partners I've chosen, etc. So, I'd rather not talk to her or see her for a while until I learn some new ways of responding and new, much-lesser expectations of her and our relationship. I feel it is all going to be on me and my mother obviously gets something out of our current dynamic, otherwise she'd examine her behavior or try to change. She just blames me as she has always done, and I can't absorb that anymore. I'm afraid that as I try to move in a new direction, she will push my buttons and try to pull me back into the dynamic.

 

I think she means well but I do think she resents me generally for being more emotionally open and expressive than she is; this has been how she's reacted to me since I was a little girl.

 

How can I best change this? I'm having a hard time articulating exactly what the dynamic IS and how it affects me, but I'm hoping some of you can relate and share how you got yourself out from under the thumb of a damaging parental dynamic without entirely cutting the parent out of your life. I do feel that I have to give up on having a truly close and loving relationship with my mom, but accept the more distant one that my mother seems more comfortable with, and I think I can start achieving this shift as I learn to hold out for relationships in my life that honor who I am rather than always feeling like I have to apologize for being "too much," which is an old belief system that comes straight out of my relationship with my mom.

[bathtub-row]

I think first of all that you need to acknowledge the anger that you must certainly feel toward your mother. I mean, I got angry just reading what you wrote. It seems to me that you were, and still are, abused by your mom.

 

Your mom seems to have taken a script from her abusive ex by acting the way she does toward you. There's actually no reason on earth why you should be in the least bit understanding or forgiving about this. I'm not saying to never repair things with your mother but it will be extremely difficult to do so as long as she maintains that she had no culpability for what happened.

 

I was once married to an abusive guy and my son was young at the time. Do you know what one of the main reasons was that I left him? Because he started treating my son badly. This was sacred ground that he should have never tread on. Your mom was wrong in every sense of the word for staying with that guy and for allowing him to abuse you. Unfortunately your mom doesn't seem to think she played into this at all. She also obviously doesn't even come close to understanding the dynamics of abusive people.

 

I don't know what to tell you about this situation. Sometimes it's best to distance ourselves from people who are toxic in our lives. Beyond that, I only think therapy for your mom and you together is the only thing that would get things even close to being healed. I doubt that your mother would agree to that.

[d0nnivain]

You change your relationship with somebody else by altering YOUR behavior & responses.

 

 

YOU want to talk about your dad's suicide. Your mother does not & have repeatedly told you this . . . over & over. When are you going to respect her wishes & hush? Seriously. Get into therapy if you want to talk about. She doesn't have the words or the emotional wherewithal to talk about it. Leave her alone. As much as you want answers, she has none to give you. When you figure that out & stop pestering her about the most painful subject in her life, your relationship with her will improve.

[Zapbasket]

I do have a lot of anger towards my mother. Like I said, in some ways she is hugely supportive, and overall she is a very loving person and generally good human being. I think seeing this, it has been hard for me to see the abusive nature of many of our interactions, from my childhood on to the present. It has only recently dawned on me how my environment growing up has had a huge impact on how I exist in the world. I am generally well adjusted and certainly very competent, but I have allowed many people to treat me badly, often without even fully recognizing it. I'll put up with stuff until I can't put up with it anymore, but rather than leave the relationship, I'll get to a point where I'm absolutely furious, and then I'm cast as utterly unreasonable and THEY are the victim of ME.

 

I think what I have to do is utterly give up on ever having a loving relationship with my mother. That way, I'll never come to her with the emotional need that she seems to resent so much. She'll listen to me, and be really helpful at times, but then she'll tire of it and be so mean, blowing up at me and hanging up on me and telling me that my relationship problems are all my fault because of my "big mouth." And it reduces me to absolute crushed frustration, and then I lash out, and then she can go, "See? This is why you have the problems you do." And then I feel awful about myself.

 

I just can't be in this cycle anymore. And I don't know how to manage things so that she goes along with my new agenda without trying to push my buttons.

[Zapbasket]

You change your relationship with somebody else by altering YOUR behavior & responses.

 

 

YOU want to talk about your dad's suicide. Your mother does not & have repeatedly told you this . . . over & over. When are you going to respect her wishes & hush? Seriously. Get into therapy if you want to talk about. She doesn't have the words or the emotional wherewithal to talk about it. Leave her alone. As much as you want answers, she has none to give you. When you figure that out & stop pestering her about the most painful subject in her life, your relationship with her will improve.

 

Well, for most of my adolescence into my early adulthood, I was not allowed to even mention my father and no one told me how he died. I'd asked once, and was told not to ask again. I grew up with no sense of who my dad even was, and I don't blame myself for eventually feeling that I needed some information.

 

And, I did go to therapy in my early 20s, not even armed with the knowledge that my dad died via suicide. Unfortunately a therapist can help with the life-long feeling of a ghost, a mystery, an absence of something that should have helped define who you are...but a therapist could never answer the questions I had about who my dad was as a person.

 

I find your response a bit harsh in the sense that growing up with a pervasive sense of secrets and not being allowed to even ask about something so huge in a person's life is quite a challenging thing to put on a young person. My mom could have gotten therapy instead of coming down so hard on me for having questions that were perfectly understandable and natural. Especially as she stood by and allowed my stepfather to mock, belittle, hit, yell, and punish me to the point that my school counselor sent DYFUS to my home--I think it was perfectly understandable that I wanted to at least try to have some semblance of an open conversation with her about these things.

 

But you're right. She doesn't want to talk about this stuff, and resents me for trying. Unfortunately that's incommensurate with what I have come to understand is a healthy and loving way of existing in the world. So therein lies the crux of my dilemma, perhaps: how can I love my mom, and have her in my life, but also love myself, and pursue a life of honesty and emotional health that allows me to be who I am? I don't do well with walls of denial and lies. And frankly, I don't believe anyone does.

[bathtub-row]

I'm not familiar with what the other poster said about you pushing your mom to talk about your dad's suicide. I don't know what the context of that is about, however, I do think she should answer any questions you have about that until you feel satisfied. Given the apparent lack of self-awareness on your mother's part, though, this will most likely never happen either. I do agree that if she refuses to talk about it, then you will have to drop it and stop asking her. However, there may be some relatives who may be able to shed some light on things, or perhaps neighbors, friends, news articles, etc. In other words, bypass your mom and try to get answers from somewhere else.

 

It's possible that your mom was abusive to your dad and it put him in a deep depression. I'm not accusing her of that but it may be a possibility. It would explain why she doesn't want to talk about it, just as she doesn't want to talk about her part in your abusive childhood.

 

For you, you'll need to identify and define some strong boundaries and completely change your expectations of others. That way, whenever someone crosses those boundaries, you let them know about it. If they continue to do it, you'll know it's time to leave. This is a complete change in your thinking but if you persist with it, you can really change your life. Abuse is just simply unacceptable. You matter just as anyone else and abuse is something you should never have to live with. Take it out of the equation by taking a stand for yourself.

[SpiralOut]

.

 

I do feel that I have to give up on having a truly close and loving relationship with my mom, but accept the more distant one that my mother seems more comfortable with, and I think I can start achieving this shift as I learn to hold out for relationships in my life that honor who I am rather than always feeling like I have to apologize for being "too much," which is an old belief system that comes straight out of my relationship with my mom.

 

This.

 

I can relate. I have a huge thread about it in here. It took me several years to work through my feelings once I realized that my mother had emotionally abused me most of my life. The only things I could change in the relationship were my own perceptions and reactions. I no longer expect her to act the way I think a mother "should" act. I don't try to change her, or even hope for her to change. I accept her for who she is. Our relationship is a shallow one. We can have good conversations about certain topics, but anything in-depth? Forget it. I have also set boundaries with her. Thankfully, she is the type of woman to respect lines when she sees them. I just never set them before because I didn't know how. Now, things aren't all bright and sunshine between us, but we've been getting along much better than usual, and her behaviour doesn't upset me nearly as much as it used to.

 

It might do you some good to distance yourself from your mother for a while. If you are able to, try going to therapy again. Do some reading. It sounds to me like your mother has some narcissism. I found it hugely helpful to read the book "Will I Ever Be Good Enough?: Healing the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers" by Dr. K. McBride. See if your library has a copy.

Edited April 4, 2016 by SpiralOut

[Zapbasket]

Thanks, SpiralOut. I've been reading your thread, and recognize some similarities between our respective dynamics with our moms.

 

What is the most helpful step you've taken to improve your dynamic, in your opinion?

 

With my mom, it has finally become clear to me that she is never going to be able to see things the way I do. It always has been confusing, because sometimes we CAN have really honest conversations. But they're always instigated by me, and even if she's able at times to go along with it, it never lasts; it's like her natural resistance to the honesty finally gets the better of her and she shuts down, but not without insulting me in the process. Which then makes me furious, because I feel emotionally abandoned in those moments; obviously it triggers old feelings in me when she does that.

 

This is the pattern I want to stop. I'm beginning to see that perhaps the only way to stop the pattern is to stop asking for any kind of emotionally honest, intimate conversation with her. Right now it's easy because we're not talking. We haven't talked in over two months. But when we start talking again, how can I resist the urge to steer the conversation to what feels natural, healthy, normal, good, for ME? I have low tolerance for trite conversations. My mom can hold trite conversation, where she talks AT me about mundane matters like a news brief, and can go on forever. I end up feeling shut out and expected to respond in kind, with a simple list of what I did that day, with no emotion or anything. And I just can't bear it. I think it's because I KNOW my mom is not a trite person, but CHOOSES to operate as one in relation to me, so as to avoid having to meet me at my level. I feel like her level is a lie, which is why it's hard for me to acquiesce to operating at that level for very long or at all without feeling frustrated, unloved, and angry.

 

My mom sent me an email earlier this week reminding me that the reason she is not talking to me is because I called her names, and she is waiting for me to apologize. I've held off replying because I want to choose something different, in order to start the path to a different outcome, i.e., a different dynamic to start to take shape. I'm thinking of just saying, "Of course I'm sorry when I call you any name. It is not how I want to interact with you." Rather than trying to point out that I only did that after she started yelling at me that she didn't want to hear what I was trying to tell her, then hanging up on me twice. It angers me that she always leaves that out of the history of events, and makes it that I just randomly called her a bad name and it's ALL MY FAULT. I just can't accept that kind of false responsibility any longer, but I'm realizing she just won't hear me if I try to explain what led up to this. It also angers me that she would rather just hold out not talking to me for months, waiting for the apology to which she feels entitled, rather than taking any responsibility at all for how that interaction went. Even at my angriest, I can't let so much time go by without talking to her; I always give in. The only reason I didn't this time is that I felt I could use the time to think about how I could change my behavior in relation to her so that I don't live one more day of my life in this destructive dynamic.

 

Can others relate to this?

Edited May 14, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Language~T

[Zapbasket]

So per my last post, above, I did reply to my mom apologizing. I said:

 

 

I don't feel justified in anything except for the validity of my feelings. Of course I am sorry for calling you a bad name, and I hate when a conversation devolves into you or I not exactly being our best.

That proved enough for her, and she started sending me emails every few days. We spoke on the phone for the first time in three months on Wednesday. I have some time off from work this month and the plan was to visit her for at least a week.

 

But, fellow LS'ers, I feel like I just can't bring myself to go. Already, since Wednesday, we've had two interactions with the same frustrating dynamics, and I find myself feeling this deep well of hurt and desolation during a time when I've really been trying to overcome some negative beliefs I've had about myself, and to set better boundaries with people. Yesterday, for instance, I called her to see if my Mother's Day cards had arrived. They had, and I said, "Oh, I wish you'd called to tell me." She instantly got defensive and raised her voice, and I said, "Mom, Mom, you don't need to get so defensive, okay? You don't need to do that."

 

She was still elevated but said, "Okay, okay," and I said to her, "Please let's not have things get like that. It really affects me in ways I can't even express."

 

Somewhere in that she cut me off and said, "Too bad," and then quickly shifted the subject. My heart sank and I said, "Did you just say, 'Too bad'?" And she said, "I don't know what I said." And I felt like I was going to cry and said, "I just can't do this," and hung up.

 

And then this morning I called her, in an effort to try again, and she asked me about some of my plans, and I was telling her, and she said, "Finish up because I have to go to the bathroom." She always does this and never says, "Hang on, I need to go to the bathroom but I'll call you back." Or something. And so I feel both utterly left hanging as well as like she didn't hear or register anything I said.

 

Perhaps these sound like small things and I'm being overly sensitive, but this kind of thing has gone on for so many years, with much worse variations, that now I just feel like I'm at the end of my rope. In the time when we didn't talk at all, I felt like maybe I could find a way to respond differently to her. And I realized that if I can, I'm not there yet; I don't have that different way yet. I just so hate how she speaks to me, and how I feel she views me. I mean, I know, very deeply, that she loves me...very deeply. But it's like there's something about me that creates conflict in her, and she either lacks the tools or the will or both to address it, and so she then projects the conflict onto me and sometimes can be so mean. I went through some difficult times over the past couple of years, and I was going through some old emails this week, cleaning out my inbox, and I came across some emails from my mom that were so heartless, so, just...mean.

 

What do I do? I feel like I just am not ready to go, and I have this month off from work, and there are things I really am trying to set in motion for myself, to move closer to the life I want. A lot of what I"m trying to change comes out of things that blocked me from my relationship with my mom. She's going to have a big birthday in August, so if I don't go this month, I can go in August for her actual birthday. (She lives across the country from me.)

 

Any advice? Thanks.

Edited May 14, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Language~T

[Tayla]

There is an animal from Doctor Doolittle called a "push me-pull you", and the premise of this creature seems to run akin to your dynamics with your mother. The way to transcend is to stop being one or the other.

 

I think the card was a lovely gesture. I think visiting or calling her on Mother's Day with gratitude in your voice will do wonders! My how I can relate to being the daughter who felt that my needs weren't being met. It took ALOT of growing up and much empathy for my mom to realize she was already giving me everything I genuinely needed. I hope you can get to that point as it does enhance things once we realize that flaws and all deep down a wonderful bond resides.

[Emilia]

Abusive people are never bad 100% of the time, this is why it's hard to let them go when you've been conditioned to accept that dynamic.

 

Have you considered OP that it's not the men in your mother's life that have been the problem but in fact your mother? My father left us when I was 7 and I was raised to believe that he was a bad, weak person for doing that. In fact now that I am older I realised that my mother destroyed his self esteem and confidence completely. Yes he was a weak person to start with (an alcoholic) but as an adult I can see how my mother destroyed him systematically over the years.

 

I too realised just like you how my mother's relationship to the world affected the way I was brought up, my relationship with other people, being made a scapegoat (that also happened to you) damaged my confidence for a long time. I had poor social skills as a teenager, took me a while to catch up. My sister lived at home until the age of 26, she still hasn't caught up. She is 40 going on 18 at times.

 

The only way out for me has been cutting contact with my mother, it has been very difficult, it's been just under a year, but it has been the only way to cut poison out of my life and have the chance of something better and healthier.

 

Just my perspective.

 

My anxiety over a lot of things have disappeared since. I feel guilt but it's been the right thing to do.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Emilia
fixing grammar

[Alamo657]

It takes 2 to dance. Whatever the efforts you put in, your mother needs to accompany you on this new path, or it will not work.

 

I tried to fix my relationship with my mother, but she wouldnt change her behavior while i was trying to explain to her why her attitude hurts me.