Infidelity IS a deal-breaker [updated]

[heartwhole]

We are nearing a year since DD, and things are going well in our marriage. There have been a lot of growing pains (we always avoided conflict in the past, so we've had to learn how to work through conflict and negotiate a relationship that works for both of us), but overall I am happy with where we are.

 

But I still find that the trauma strikes from time to time. And I never know when it will be. We watched the movie The Intern, which had an infidelity story line, and it was fine. But then I checked his text messages, as I still do maybe once or twice a month, and I saw he had sent a happy birthday text to a single woman who is a neighbor. The text mentioned me and our kids, and his purpose in keeping up with her is that she's a very good prospective client for him, but it triggered me bad. He had been really good about mentioning all messages with women so I didn't feel like I needed to check, and I assumed he was going to follow that to the T. Anyway, I spiraled into feeling like it was DD all over again. I think it was augmented by a series of other "reminders" -- a well-meaning friend who doesn't know about the A who keeps trying to get me to visit OW's country, WH needing to plan a work trip to the city where he had the A, a friend inviting us to repeat the dinner party we had the night WH got back from the A, etc.

 

So I got out Not Just Friends and reread the chapter on PTSD. It said that at first post-traumatic reactions will lessen in their duration and frequency, and finally in their intensity. It was just gut-wrenching to feel like I was at DD all over again. I am not a rug-sweeper and I have been rather vigorously facing all my emotions and trying to ride them out, but I'm growing weary of them. I do think the duration and frequency is less.

 

I lost my father to suicide, which was obviously a great trauma. He did not have a history of depression and it was a total shock. Yet somehow I was able to follow the grief process and heal from that without spiraling into panic and despair. I guess that because there was total closure with that it was different. Perhaps a more apt comparison to infidelity would be if the person survived a suicide attempt, and then you live with the fear that they could attempt again and must try to navigate how to support and trust a person who has also hurt you and may be unsafe to trust.

 

I also wonder if my health condition, which produces an excess of adrenaline, also contributes. Sometimes I think I am already feeling twitchy physically, and it doesn't take much to feel twitchy emotionally. People with my condition are often misdiagnosed with anxiety disorders.

 

So what do you do to put the trauma to bed? I don't want to be stuck in 2015 anymore. We have done so much work that I know my husband is a safer partner than he's probably ever been, but there's this primitive part of my brain that remains on high alert.

[katielee]

I had EMDR therapy for this. I had a traumatic reaction because I caught them together making out. It worked pretty well. I think it works for other things as well.

I had to find a counselor who does this. They need to be specially trained and keep up their license.

I'm so sorry! Hugs!

[ladydesigner]

I had EMDR therapy for this. I had a traumatic reaction because I caught them together making out. It worked pretty well. I think it works for other things as well.

I had to find a counselor who does this. They need to be specially trained and keep up their license.

I'm so sorry! Hugs!

 

I may try this too because my childhood PTSD and infidelity related PTSD are severely compounded. I still will get triggers from childhood sexual abuse and when they come they are still overwhelming same with my WH's A.

[Mrs. John Adams]

You are still not even a year out. It takes an average of 2-5 years to even begin to heal from infidelity and that is if absolutely everything goes perfectly. Obviously....you are still checking on your husband....and he is still crossing a line for you. He gave you a reason why he did it....but if it bothers you...he should not do it at all for any reason. It created doubt. It is totally understandable that you triggered.....those insecurities and doubts creep back in.

 

Triggers happen forever...because after all...a trigger is a memory. We never forget things that happen to us....and it can be a movie, a song, a smell, a car, a restaurant, a road, a tv show......all it takes is one split second for it to trigger our brains to remember.

 

The important thing is...as times goes by....they happen less frequently...and they last a shorter period of time. Instead of being consuming....they become an annoyance.

 

As trust builds....as we grow more comfortable in our relationship...as we learn to share the triggers with our spouse and talk about them...we can put them to rest quicker.

 

I believe that triggers should be shared with the one who caused them...

they need to be discussed and we need to be supportive of our spouse....and help them through the trigger.

 

John used to trigger and go into deep depression....but as he has learned to share with me how he is feeling and he feels that i support him....the triggers have become less frequent and less painful. They still happen...and i suspect they always will.

 

I truly believe the most helpful thing is to talk about them....nothing helps us to heal more than when our wayward acknowledges they understand the pain and take responsibility for it.

[heartwhole]

Don't worry, I share, share, and then share some more! That's just my personality. I immediately shared with my WH that I was upset about the text message and the other little reminders. I was just surprised by how the feelings of panic and unease grew and grew.

[dreamingoftigers]

I had EMDR therapy for this. I had a traumatic reaction because I caught them together making out. It worked pretty well. I think it works for other things as well.

I had to find a counselor who does this. They need to be specially trained and keep up their license.

I'm so sorry! Hugs!

 

I was going to recommend the exact same thing. EMDR.

 

It was a real life-saver for me in the aftermath of my husband's infidelity.

[dreamingoftigers]

Don't worry, I share, share, and then share some more! That's just my personality. I immediately shared with my WH that I was upset about the text message and the other little reminders. I was just surprised by how the feelings of panic and unease grew and grew.

 

I find i usually trigger late at night, then it keep me up all night. I get very upset and angry. My husband blissfully snoring away seems to make it worse. Like "so you get to cheat and now you get to be the one who sleeps at night too! Must be nice!"

 

It's probably the only time you'll ever catch me turning on the TV by myself. Otherwise I would be skulking around in the dark my place like a crazy person stubbing my toes and swearing. I hate triggers. I start planning the "inevitable" divorce and mentally connecting the dots that he "must be cheating again."

[SunnyWeather]

as other posters have said, EMDR. I will also add that a somatic-based therapist can also be helpful--specifically one trained in Hakomi methods or similar.

 

more studies are showing that doing simply talking-based psychotherapies do little to get to the root of the trauma, it has to be dealt with on another level, thus the EMDR, which works more on the subtle-body, something not unknown in Chinese medicine, or with the body, where trauma lives on until it is integrated and resolved.

 

good luck with your journey towards becoming whole again. your courage to change what no doubt has generational aspects will not only help you, but your children and children's children as well

[heartwhole]

I meant to start this as a new topic. I'm not sure how I've managed to change the title of this old thread about post-traumatic reactions. ????

Edited April 4, 2016 by heartwhole
confusion!

[heartwhole]

I don't mean that it has to end your marriage. But from what I've learned in the past year since DD, our marriage was all out of whack. So in some ways, I'm glad that infidelity has blown up our old marriage.

 

We met in college and always had a pretty good relationship, I think, but we married young and I don't think we were fully grown or mature. We had kids, and the cracks in the foundation started showing them. I remember our baby was less than a month old and he wanted to go out to concerts and with friends 4 nights in one week. I remember thinking, what if I went out 4 nights in one week? Between the two of us, that's 8 nights. He always bristled at the idea that he should adjust his expectations once he became a father. He would cite friends with "controlling" wives who only "let" their husbands go out once a week. And I thought, sure, I don't want to be an uncool, controlling wife. And I tried to be supportive. I was the one breastfeeding the baby and I'm an introvert who needs lots of down time, so I let that be our dynamic.

 

Then I got pregnant with #2 and developed (or exacerbated, probably) a chronic condition that I have and now live with every day. I had to be on bed rest for the entire pregnancy. I just felt so guilty about letting my family down and not being able to be the mom I wanted to be that I put all my extra energy into supporting WH. He loves being active and always needs new experiences. So he would exercise every morning before work, then go out for coffee afterwards. He would spend hours both weekend days doing his sports and hobbies. He started investing in businesses on top of his full time job, joined a couple of boards, still had concerts to attend, etc. I did my best to accommodate him but I was always exhausted, so when he was finally home, I would just have him take care of the kids so I could have some time to rest.

 

When my condition flares up, my blood pressure drops too low for me to function. I can't even sit up on the couch, let alone drive my kids to school. When I would tell him that I didn't feel well enough and needed him to change his plans to take the kids somewhere or to take me to the ER, he would glare at me and act like a petulant teenager. I internalized the message that my condition (one of these nebulous chronic illnesses that is not well understood) must actually be something I could control. I tried harder not to fail.

 

During this time is when he started his 5 month affair (with someone who lives abroad, so it was only a PA for two days during a business trip). On DD, he exploded in anger. He said, "I want to go out walking with the kids on weekends but you are too tired to go!" Again, I internalized this. I wasn't doing enough. I wasn't trying hard enough.

 

We went to MC right away, and I remember thinking that the MC didn't get our dynamic and thought my husband was this big bad wolf when he really wasn't. It took me about six months to realize just how ridiculous this whole dynamic was. Finally, the deal was broken for good.

 

And goodness, have we fought more in the last year than we have in the almost two decades we've been together. Now I see that the emperor has no clothes, and I can't go back. I've forced him to see what he was doing to me, how his excessive need to do things for himself had an opportunity cost -- less time for our family to do things together, and less time for me to recuperate from the condition that I simply cannot help. He would go on vacation with his guy friends for 9 days, but any time I wanted to visit my family or go on a vacation, he hemmed and hawed about how he couldn't miss work. Of course, it's a bitter pill that he met OW while on a getaway with friends for which we missed my cousin's wedding. I always tried to make it work for him. Even when he inexplicably wanted to fly over 24 hours one way to go to the party of a friend he had seen 3 weeks earlier (of course, the real reason is that that's where OW lives), and I was exhausted and that seemed like a ridiculous thing for a father with a sick wife and two small children to do, I said, "Can you explain why this is so important to you? If it's important to you, I'll try to make it work." At least his conscience did not allow him to play that card and he just said, "Fine, if this is going to cause problems in our marriage, then I won't go!" Again, the petulant teenager. I was so confused at the time.

 

I wish I could say he got it right away. I have had to stand my ground time after time. Every time one of our kids had a birthday party on the weekend, he'd say, great, I'll go do one of my activities. Finally I had to say, "This is family time. You don't get extra time to yourself every time this happens." Now we alternate. I decided I feel comfortable with him spending 5 days in a year on his guy trips (they involve camping in the middle of the nowhere and are not with the people who introduced him to OW). He needs to work within that limit. I am comfortable with him working out 3 mornings a week, and going for coffee once in a while (having to wake up with the kids myself contributes to my fatigue).

 

The irony is that I know he thought I was this ridiculous, controlling wife because I complained that 9 days was too long for a single trip without his family (so he cut it down to 7) or because I questioned the 8,000 other things he does. He thought he was a victim, but that's life. We are adults who chose to have children. I have developed an illness which limits my functioning. These are our realities and we must do our best within those constraints. I'm sure we haven't had our last argument over him doing too much or taking it for granted that he has a free pass to be Mr. Social, but this new deal works so much better for me. I've stopped beating myself up over not being able to do the things that I want to do. We're spending a lot more time as a family. If he doesn't want to prioritize us, then he nobody is forcing him to stay, but I'm not going to sacrifice my own health and happiness just so he can waltz off and get a secret girlfriend ever again. I'm not going to feel guilty if the realities of our life mean that he can't do every single thing he wants to do.

 

We bought a vacation home last year after DD (hey, at least we didn't have a baby . . .) and we have several weeks of family vacation planned this summer. Actually my husband is the one who suggested each vacation, which means a lot. I don't know why I put up with him not wanting to spend time with our family in the past; it's so sad, really. He always made me feel unreasonable for wanting to spend time with my family. The year that he had the affair, we hosted his mother for two weeks and flew across the country for Thanksgiving with his family, but when Christmas came, he only wanted to spend one night visiting my family, and he only took me away for one night for our 10th anniversary. Ridiculous! In hindsight, I don't know why I didn't realize that it wasn't normal and he could shape up or ship out. I think it all boils down to not accepting my illness for what it was and not dealing with the guilt.

 

Did infidelity break your old dynamic? What did you learn? What did you change going forward?

 

[i meant to make this as its own post, but it appears to have been on the heels of another post I started. I'm not sure if I did that or a moderator did, but I'm starting a new one because I don't think the topics are related. Hope that's OK.]

[heartwhole]

Moderator . . . I just don't see how post-traumatic reactions and power dynamics in relationships are related?

[William]

I meant to start this as a new topic. I'm not sure how I've managed to change the title of this old thread about post-traumatic reactions. ????

Moderator . . . I just don't see how post-traumatic reactions and power dynamics in relationships are related?

If the topic is about your spouse's or your affair, it's the same topic for purposes of discussion.

 

If the affair is over and your marriage is in recovery, we can move the discussion to MLP. If you have general statements to make or questions to ask about infidelity, like it being a dealbreaker, feel free to post those into GRD.

 

For more information, here's the official LoveShack policy thread, pinned at the top of this forum:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/326395-you-right-forum-update-july-30-2013-a

 

Inquiries about moderation actions, real or suspected, are to be made privately using the 'alert us' link. Thanks!

Edited April 4, 2016 by William
Added policy link.

[Mr. Lucky]

Ridiculous! In hindsight, I don't know why I didn't realize that it wasn't normal and he could shape up or ship out. I think it all boils down to not accepting my illness for what it was and not dealing with the guilt.

 

One of my best friends for many years was my BIL, married to my sister who was also affected by a chronic health condition. It was interesting to hear both sides of the story, which mainly fell into predictable "she's controlling and victimizing" and "he's insensitive and selfish" camps. Their marriage eventually ended over his infidelity.

 

Those issues in your relationship aside, I think there's always a huge challenge when personalities, goals and lifestyles are so different between partners in a marriage. As you've matured together, it doesn't seem like you've kept much common ground. And this leaves you with two challenges going forward -

 

- healing from infidelity

 

- being flexible enough (both of you!) to meet your partner's needs, including some of which might differ greatly from your own.

 

Your H has made some horrible and destructive choices. But to stay married to him, you might have to give up some of the high ground you've so carefully staked out. Much work ahead and I wish you much success in getting there...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Joie]

Wow, our dynamic was so close to yours. My H was constantly going out. We spend a lot of time in MC talking about how unrealistic his expectations were. I don't need him to spend every second of the day with me but he took it to extremes. Weeks away with friends, golf tournaments every weekend, men's night once a week. I never wanted to be "that wife". The one who controls his every move. I was so hurt that it didn't matter. I was far more relaxed than 99% of women and he still thought I was controlling during the affair. One time he was angry because I asked him to leave golf night early because I had strep throat. He acted like I purposely got ill.

 

We have been working on the dynamic were if he doesn't want me to treat him like a controlling mother figure he needs to make responsible choices on his own. If you have gone out 3 nights in a row. Don't put me in a position to have to request you stay home on night 4. Just be home!

[ShatteredLady]

You guys have mentioned EMDR therapy. I'd never heard of it. I've been doing some research. I can understand how it can work for some things e.g. Abuse in childhood. "I'm frightened" replaced by "I'm safe now".

 

But what if your thing is ongoing? "I'm terrified" but "I'm NOT safe now". Can it still work?

 

As a PTSD, anxiety symptom treatment does it only work on the feelings once you've resolved the situation that created the feelings in the first place?

 

Sort of...Can a soldier be treated for PTSD in a war zone?

Edited April 5, 2016 by ShatteredLady

[dreamingoftigers]

You guys have mentioned EMDR therapy. I'd never heard of it. I've been doing some research. I can understand how it can work for some things e.g. Abuse in childhood. "I'm frightened" replaced by "I'm safe now".

 

But what if your thing is ongoing? "I'm terrified" but "I'm NOT safe now". Can it still work?

 

As a PTSD, anxiety symptom treatment does it only work on the feelings once you've resolved the situation that created the feelings in the first place?

 

Sort of...Can a soldier be treated for PTSD in a war zone?

 

It doesn't dull your instincts or remove the memories. But it stops the overall debilitating trauma reaction.

 

If anything, it helps you screen out the rational from irrational stresses and fears.

 

My EMDR involved very little talk therapy at all, more just the processing of the memories as I held buzzers that did bilateral stimulation. Perfect for me. I was able to go through strings of traumatic memory like layers of an onion.

 

Years of trauma caused by my father mostly evaporated. Now I am just largely annoyed by his behaviour, bit no more waves of stresandnd anxiety when I see or hear from him. I KNOW that he's volatile, but I am not scared of him. And frankly, me being not scared of him has tamed his volatility around me to a degree.

 

I hope that makes sense.

[ShatteredLady]

Thank you that really does.

 

Do you know about how much it costs & if insurance covers any of it?

[Jersey born raised]

I think sometimes it comes down to shear will. I remember giving up smoking. I was using the patch, taking the purple pill, and went to a support group once. Yet at times I was literally on my hands and knees, head between my shoulders and chanting "this will past, ths will past, this will pass......."

 

Reconciliation is at some level never fair to a BS in a profundly human way. Having said that, is it worth staying? Sometimes.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Jersey born raised

[Dylon]

Heartwhole, I read many of your posts elsewhere and you are a very intelligent woman so I have no doubt you will be ok. Of course, knowing and understanding don't take the away the hurt or the chemical imbalance created by the affair.

 

I was the ws and I can relate to how you feel and situation because of my bs. Mine was an emotional affair and I never met this woman. However, my wife's reaction to the betrayal is the most extreme a bs can take and it hurt her tremendously health wise due to multiple DD.

 

Since I don't know your husband, I can't relate to him much. I remember you said he needed constant excitement and change. No one spouse can provide a person everything he/she needs. My wife attributed to my deception and lie as not loving her. I really don't know how to convey it into words but I do and I would give my life for her. I lied to her to protect her feelings while still finding the connection with someone else, though it wasn't an intentional seeking of the void in the marriage. It just happened. I was lonely and needed a friend and closeness that I couldn't feel from my wife at the time. Anyway, that's another story but my point is that don't view all the wrongs that happened as black and white. Relationship and marriage are complicated and we don't all see eye to eye. My wife and I got married knowing very little about each other so we aren't compatible in many areas but we are both accepted the love from each other.

 

She's suspicious of me often and it can be frustrating at times, especially for things that are very obviously nothing to be suspicious of. I just changed habit and how we do things so all the reminders are limited as much as possible. For example, move things around. If the computer was a source of a reminder, move it to a different location. If he has a habit of going to the bathroom with his phone, ask him not to do it because it makes you uncomfortable. Change change change! After his DD, we both have changed and habits changed. The more, the better.

 

I'm sure I haven't said anything you haven't thought of knowing and seeing how you've expressed yourself in many areas, anaylyzing quite admirably situations. I just wanted to add my two scents and offer you my support.

[heartwhole]

Heartwhole, I read many of your posts elsewhere and you are a very intelligent woman so I have no doubt you will be ok. Of course, knowing and understanding don't take the away the hurt or the chemical imbalance created by the affair.

 

I was the ws and I can relate to how you feel and situation because of my bs. Mine was an emotional affair and I never met this woman. However, my wife's reaction to the betrayal is the most extreme a bs can take and it hurt her tremendously health wise due to multiple DD.

 

Since I don't know your husband, I can't relate to him much. I remember you said he needed constant excitement and change. No one spouse can provide a person everything he/she needs. My wife attributed to my deception and lie as not loving her. I really don't know how to convey it into words but I do and I would give my life for her. I lied to her to protect her feelings while still finding the connection with someone else, though it wasn't an intentional seeking of the void in the marriage. It just happened. I was lonely and needed a friend and closeness that I couldn't feel from my wife at the time. Anyway, that's another story but my point is that don't view all the wrongs that happened as black and white. Relationship and marriage are complicated and we don't all see eye to eye. My wife and I got married knowing very little about each other so we aren't compatible in many areas but we are both accepted the love from each other.

 

She's suspicious of me often and it can be frustrating at times, especially for things that are very obviously nothing to be suspicious of. I just changed habit and how we do things so all the reminders are limited as much as possible. For example, move things around. If the computer was a source of a reminder, move it to a different location. If he has a habit of going to the bathroom with his phone, ask him not to do it because it makes you uncomfortable. Change change change! After his DD, we both have changed and habits changed. The more, the better.

 

I'm sure I haven't said anything you haven't thought of knowing and seeing how you've expressed yourself in many areas, anaylyzing quite admirably situations. I just wanted to add my two scents and offer you my support.

 

Thanks Dylon. I can understand somewhat why your wife is so upset about the EA. I thought my husband's was an EA for the first two weeks, and I think he and the friends we confided in all thought I'd leave once I found out it was a PA. But just knowing he thought he loved and wanted to have sex with another woman was so bad, that the fact that he followed through on it didn't change that much. If that makes sense.

 

I can be a very black and white, all or nothing person, so it's important for me to try to step back and see things from all angles. Others have said I seem to have staked out the moral high ground, which isn't hard when one of you has had an affair and one of you hasn't, but of course it's more complex than that. I was not a good partner at the time of the affair; I was so tapped out physically and emotionally that I didn't give much to my WH. And the SSRI that I was taking blunted my moods and affected my libido. So I certainly wasn't the world's best wife at the time. He was very focused on my failings after DD, which was hard, because I was already very hard on myself and it distracted from either of us focusing on his failings. So "breaking the deal" is changing how we viewed that. I have worked hard to be emotionally available and supportive and to work within the constraints of my illness, weaning off my SSRI even though it has made some of my autonomic problems worse. I'll take that trade to have my feelings and libido back.

 

We have changed our phone/ipad dynamic so that we really do share now. Actually, the funny thing about you mentioning him taking the phone into the bathroom . . . DD happened because he didn't do that and OW FaceTimed him while he was in the shower. When a woman your husband claims not to know is FaceTiming him, you ask questions . . . But now we answer each others' phones, and if one of us is getting a lot of text messages, the other will ask, "Who are you texting?" He's run to answer my phone for me a couple of times, which I laugh at, because the only calls I get are from the pharmacy about my refills or from the kid's school system. The open policy we have now definitely helps put me at ease. I know that I can't check or monitor enough to keep someone from cheating -- he could have a secret phone or email or whatnot. But like you are describing with yourself, I do not believe he is a serial cheater, and he's not a good liar. I can't see him pretending to be open with his stuff while secretly using other means.

[heartwhole]

Wow, our dynamic was so close to yours. My H was constantly going out. We spend a lot of time in MC talking about how unrealistic his expectations were. I don't need him to spend every second of the day with me but he took it to extremes. Weeks away with friends, golf tournaments every weekend, men's night once a week. I never wanted to be "that wife". The one who controls his every move. I was so hurt that it didn't matter. I was far more relaxed than 99% of women and he still thought I was controlling during the affair. One time he was angry because I asked him to leave golf night early because I had strep throat. He acted like I purposely got ill.

 

We have been working on the dynamic were if he doesn't want me to treat him like a controlling mother figure he needs to make responsible choices on his own. If you have gone out 3 nights in a row. Don't put me in a position to have to request you stay home on night 4. Just be home!

 

YES. This is it exactly. I want to be encouraging and supportive, but I can't do that when he takes, takes, takes. I do think he has shifted his perspective, but I also have stopped feeling bad for saying, "Sorry, but that's not going to work for me."

 

Now when I fall ill, he takes a deep breath and then says, "Your health is the most important thing. What can I do?" or "Of course, let's get you home. We don't need to stay here." It's a breath of fresh air compared to him looking super annoyed and me saying, "Well, maybe I can last another 10 minutes."

 

And he's being a lot more giving too. This past weekend he had a family funeral across the country. Flying exacerbates my health problems, so he insisted on me staying home and him taking the kids. I had a whole 4 days to myself. Ah. And it's a good thing I didn't go because I passed out just going to the bathroom in the middle of the night this weekend. I would not have survived the five flights they had to take. In the past, I would have felt so guilty about missing it, but it's just not the end of the world. Being upset with myself doesn't change my reality and people understand when you are sick.