There are responsibilities for a BS in reconciliation.

[understand50]

I agree, and perhaps so does Understand 50.

 

Yes. there needs to be a period of adjustment before divorce is taken off the table.

 

IMO, anyone who has an affair should be fully prepared to accept that it might cause a divorce.

 

I agree as well

[dichotomy]

Yes he does. I know I come across as cold, but I need to protect myself too. My WH has never done the work I have needed to heal except verbally tell me the A is over. Ideally I wish I had a remorseful husband. That is what I really wanted. I don't even care that the A happened anymore or that is was 3 years. Heck I have no hard feelings towards the MOW because he did her wrong too.

What I have discovered and continue to discover is how personality disordered my WH is. This has been the dealbreaker for me and I am having troubles navigating. I know I should get a D, but easier said than done. The only thing I really can do that would make me feel a little bit more in control of my life is what cocorico said in her post in regards to getting my nest egg ready.

 

 

Some similarities here with me as well. In my WW case - some work was done but only after me pushing shoving and dragging her to do it. Later, I suppose some more minor work for a short period - I suspect momentum from the pushing. Some (some) remorse did come years later but it was muted - just enough I guess to continue onward. However this last part about discovering personality - whoo boy this is what stays with me - this other person she was (and maybe still way deep) bothers me the most. I actually see this "chunk" of her inner self, suppressed perhaps to stay married to me - as the reasons she herself can't make the all the changes necessary to heal the marriage. She says she has changed - but I still know there is a struggle within her between this nature of hers - and the love she has for me and the life we have. A Dichotomy.

Edited April 6, 2016 by dichotomy

[Jersey born raised]

Wow, just wow for now. If an act of genius is taking the complex and rendering it simple and old hat, there are a lot of genius(s) on this thread. Please be advise I will copy and paste (with a hat tip) many of these posts on a newbie thread (mostly).

[gettingstronger]

Prior to infidelity divorce was never anything I thought was a possibility. Then again, never thought he'd cheat so, yes infidelity brings up those things you never thought possible. They always happen to someone else, until of course they happen to you. I don't think of it daily, but like infidelity, the possibility of divorce is vey much part of my marriage.

[HereNorThere]

I have been thinking, that while one can never forget what was done, and should not, the affair, the cheating, and the lying, that once you have made the decision to reconcile, you then must, take divorce, and other negative positions off the table if reconciliation is to really work. The BS has work to do as well as the WS. Not only must the cheating be addressed, but any other problems in the marriage must be worked on as well.

 

We all know what the WS must and has to do for a "good" reconciliation, but, and this maybe harder, there are things a BS must do as well. Remember, as a BS, you have decided that life is better, even living with the betrayal, with your spouse.

 

What must a BS do to make the reconciliation work? My thoughts.

 

1) Forgive, and not hold over the WS their action, unless by their present actions, their past must be readdressed. IE, I do not bring up my wife past ONS, and over spending, unless it is germane to the conversation or situation.

 

2) Really decide if you are going to reconcile and give it 100%. Once your "gift" is given you should be prepared for all the hard work that it implies.

 

3) Accept when and if the WS is working and changing, and while verifying, give them benefit of the doubt when warranted.

 

4) Approach the marriage as equals on issues and problems that are not from the affair. In other words, at some point, future problems must be dealt with and the high ground will need to be abandoned.

 

 

This is assuming, and this can be a big assumption, that the WS is a former WS, and is doing everything that is asked for and accepted to reconcile. In other words, a false reconciliation is not happening. Example: Mrs. JA, and there are others, VBM wife, Anne was doing everything she could to walk the straight and narrow.

 

For those that advise divorce, and only divorce, I would ask that you widen your position, and give some thought to what you may think is necessary for a BS to have a good reconciliation.

 

My two cents, and lets hope for a good conversation...........

 

The original post just feels very enabling and rug-sweeping. I truly think it's a one way street to get cheated on again. I've never met a cheater who stopped without serious consequences.

 

1. I'm just suppose to forgive and never mention it again? My friend, that is rug-sweeping. The BS has every right to discuss and bring up the infidelity as long as they need to heal and the includes the rest of their life. If the WS can't handle that, they should go start over with someone new. Adults should be held accountable for their actions and if you cheat on your spouse, they're allowed to bring it up. And forgiveness isn't really a choice as much as it is a product of time and the positive actions by the WS. Seriously, I can't think of worse advice to give a BS than "forgive and don't talk about it unless it happens again."

 

2. The gift and the hard work it implies? A gift is given without expecting anything in return. Sorry, but any sort of reconciliation should be earned. You don't wrap it up and give it to them like on iPod on Christmas morning. And it is hard work dealing with all of the pain the person caused you, but it's almost sounds like you're victim-blaming a little and implying that the BS should be trying to win over or compete for their WS. If anyone should be doing hard work and giving gifts, it's the the cheater.

 

3. The benefit of the doubt? Sure, that's something you can earn back in time I suppose, but you didn't provide a time table. Depending on the level of deception, I think that benefit could be earned back in 2 to 5 years. Unless you're married to a serial cheater, someone who committed paternity fraud or carried on an affair for an extended period of time. You really shouldn't ever give a truly disordered person the benefit of the doubt ever. It's important to manage your expectations based on what your spouse is truly capable of not, not what you wish they were capable of.

 

4. Equals? Maybe in time, but that's just another part of rug-sweeping if it's not earned. The truth is you aren't equals. One of the partners is abusive and cares less about the relationship, marriage, their partner, their partner's health and well-being, and their children more than the other one does. There's no reason to make up some sort of alternate reality where you are equals. Given enough time in work, a WS could possibly reach that level again, but we're talking years here. Equals? Really? So you can destroy your whole family, but we're reconciling so we're equals? That's not even logical.

 

I do think most of the things on this list are legitimate, but they are things that come long, long after you've decided to reconcile and the cheater has earned them from you. They don't automatically come with the decision to grant a person a chance to earn your trust again.

Edited April 7, 2016 by HereNorThere

[Mrs. John Adams]

I have been thinking, that while one can never forget what was done, and should not, the affair, the cheating, and the lying, that once you have made the decision to reconcile, you then must, take divorce, and other negative positions off the table if reconciliation is to really work. The BS has work to do as well as the WS. Not only must the cheating be addressed, but any other problems in the marriage must be worked on as well.

 

We all know what the WS must and has to do for a "good" reconciliation, but, and this maybe harder, there are things a BS must do as well. Remember, as a BS, you have decided that life is better, even living with the betrayal, with your spouse.

 

What must a BS do to make the reconciliation work? My thoughts.

 

1) Forgive, and not hold over the WS their action, unless by their present actions, their past must be readdressed. IE, I do not bring up my wife past ONS, and over spending, unless it is germane to the conversation or situation.

 

2) Really decide if you are going to reconcile and give it 100%. Once your "gift" is given you should be prepared for all the hard work that it implies.

 

3) Accept when and if the WS is working and changing, and while verifying, give them benefit of the doubt when warranted.

 

4) Approach the marriage as equals on issues and problems that are not from the affair. In other words, at some point, future problems must be dealt with and the high ground will need to be abandoned.

 

 

This is assuming, and this can be a big assumption, that the WS is a former WS, and is doing everything that is asked for and accepted to reconcile. In other words, a false reconciliation is not happening. Example: Mrs. JA, and there are others, VBM wife, Anne was doing everything she could to walk the straight and narrow.

 

For those that advise divorce, and only divorce, I would ask that you widen your position, and give some thought to what you may think is necessary for a BS to have a good reconciliation.

 

My two cents, and lets hope for a good conversation...........

 

I think it takes many many years for a wayward to understand true remorse and many many years for a betrayed to learn forgiveness. I believe in reconciliation ...they go hand in hand. I don't think reconciliation is possible one without the other. I think you can "settle" and accept your situation without either...but "reconciliation" is more complex and more difficult to achieve.

 

I know many couples who have settled...and very few who have achieved true remorse and complete forgiveness.

 

Divorce truly can be the right answer for those couples who infidelity has touched. Some people know that they do not have the ability to forgive completely....and an affair pushes them over their line. Even in our case...divorce may have truly been the right answer. Healing may have come much sooner had we gone our separate ways. I think divorce was a possibility and ON THE TABLE for 30 years. There is always that possibility....that is the reality.I am not sorry we stuck it out certainly....but many couple don't have thirty years to wait for healing to come.

 

I agree that both parties are liable for the condition of the relationship...prior to the infidelity and certainly afterwards.....that's no different than any other married couple. If either party does not do their share of the lifting...resentment settles in....so in reconciliation...both parties have to work at healing the relationship.

 

I am not one who agrees things should be put away and no longer discussed. Healthy conversation has been the key to our success...If you cannot communicate about everything...likely resentment will build. The manner in which things are discussed is of course very important. You cannot be accusatory....the last thing you want to do is cause the other spouse to become defensive. Being defensive cause a wall to be built for protection....Which will accomplish nothing. If i am defending myself ...I likely won't be listening...or even trying to understand what he is telling me.

I will be thinking only about my own well being.

 

But if he approaches me in love and compassion...I open my heart and do my very best to be understanding and compassionate in return.

 

Reconciliation takes a lifetime...and we learn something new everyday. We have reached a place of comfort...and even saying that is a little scary. We have lived a lifetime of being guarded....

 

But I can honestly say...the comfort we feel is very much like it used to be prior to my affair....and that may be the biggest accomplishment. Comfort.

We all just want to be loved for who we are.

[understand50]

Thank you Mrs. JA, I was hoping you would put in your 2 cents. I hope John could give his thoughts as well.

 

Your paragraph, I think sums it up nicely.

 

"I agree that both parties are liable for the condition of the relationship...prior to the infidelity and certainly afterwards.....that's no different than any other married couple. If either party does not do their share of the lifting...resentment settles in....so in reconciliation...both parties have to work at healing the relationship.

 

I am not one who agrees things should be put away and no longer discussed. Healthy conversation has been the key to our success...If you cannot communicate about everything...likely resentment will build. The manner in which things are discussed is of course very important. You cannot be accusatory....the last thing you want to do is cause the other spouse to become defensive. Being defensive cause a wall to be built for protection....Which will accomplish nothing. If i am defending myself ...I likely won't be listening...or even trying to understand what he is telling me.

I will be thinking only about my own well being. "

 

The idea of "taking divorce off the table" was just a small part of what I was trying to have discussed. I have talk about being able to work things out and you can only do that by talking. Divorce is never taken away, but I do think that not using it in context, to the affair is the important thing. At some point, the marriage must stand on what is going on or not going on, in the hear and now. Past issues, while still there, should not used to freeze the relationship, nor used to beat up the WS on all other issues. So my point of asking what does a BS have to do to try and make a marriage work, again I like your sentence.

 

 

"But if he approaches me in love and compassion...I open my heart and do my very best to be understanding and compassionate in return."

 

Maybe that is the heart of the matter, the BS must somehow, show that they still have "love and compassion" for their spouse, even after being betrayed by them. John, must love you at a really deep level, just as I love my wife unconditionally. That is why this is all so hard. Love cannot be turned off. Add kids, and life time together, and the idea of staying together becomes the option. How to make this all work, and what can, what should a BS do, is what the questions is.

 

My two cents........

[understand50]

.

 

I do think most of the things on this list are legitimate, but they are things that come long, long after you've decided to reconcile and the cheater has earned them from you. They don't automatically come with the decision to grant a person a chance to earn your trust again.

 

HereNorThere,

 

I am not saying this is something that has to be done right after D-Day, depending on the couple, may take years. You are right, the WS has to earn much back. You yourself, must decide if you want to really stay in the marriage. They must decide if they want to stay. After some point, the BS must forgive. I would say by staying together you are forgiving to some extent. You will never forget, nor should you. The point is, and I think that marriage works best when each are equal, you need to not hold their past cheating over them.

 

My wife and I talk about her past ONS, but it is in context, of some problem we are facing now. Truth and honesty basically. I do not bring it up as the ultimate argument card. You did X Y Z, and you are a cheat to boot. We talk about her overspending much more, but the battle to keep solvent, is much more on our minds, and we both have more opportunities to mess up.

 

As for rug sweeping, I do not see it. We go back and discuss as needed. It is not a taboo subject, but is discussed in a context to the here and now, not a revisit of a past transgressions, so I can get on the high ground, after all I forgave her. Rug sweeping is pretending that it never happened, and it is never discussed. It is a taboo subject. Getting to the point where it can be talked about, and only used as a reminder, and lesion for moving forward, is not rug sweeping. How long does this takes? There is no easy answer, but it is measured in years. What and how can a couple get to this point, and what each should be doing to reach this point is my question.

 

Thanks for your post, and I wish you luck.

[Liam1]

Personally, I think if a BS truly feels the spouses actions were abusive and that they have no part in the dysfunction of the marriage,then they should divorce.

 

Why stay in the marriage, if one feel they are a martyr and a victim?

 

The BS has the option to divorce, too.

 

To detain and torture the WS is odd. If the BS can not get past the affair at some point, than the marriage is over, IMO.

 

If the BS is unhappy and feels they are a victim of the WS, then it is very unhealthy to continue the marriage.

 

IMO, when someone has an affair, they know it might cause a divorce.

 

Personally, I think the idea of divorce is likely always in the back of the mind of the WS, too.

 

I know, if my wife had not been willing to acknowledge her contribution to the dysfunction of the marriage, and if after a number of years she was still beating me over the head with the affair, I would have not only preferred divorce. I would have taken action and filed. I would wonder why she too did NOT prefer divorce, herself, if she felt like my victim.

 

IMO, I don't see that an affair is always abusive. If it is discreet it is not. If it is flaunted to friends and family and the WS refuses to end it once the affair comes to light, then that is abuse.

 

There are many many forms of abuse in a marriage, and playing the martyr and the victim forever is one form of emotional abuse in a marriage.

[wmacbride]

What I can't understand is when either the ws uses the A as a way of browbeating the bs into towing the line.

 

While I don;t think this happens all that often, there are some ws who know their bs doesn;t want to divorce and will do just about anything to keep the together. The ws uses their A as an unspoken threat. These ws see the as being the fault of the the bs, and will use the threat of a future A to keep their bs towing the line.

 

it;s one thing for a ws to explain that there are issues in the M they feel need to be addressed, as these are almost never one sided and require both spouses to remedy them. it's quite another to say "you'd better chnage your behavior to do/ be what I wat or I'll cheat again". In that situtaion the bs is left running like crazy on a hamster wheel, desperate trying to be what the ws thinks they should be.

[wmacbride]

Personally, I think if a BS truly feels the spouses actions were abusive and that they have no part in the dysfunction of the marriage,then they should divorce.

 

Why stay in the marriage, if one feel they are a martyr and a victim?

 

The BS has the option to divorce, too.

 

To detain and torture the WS is odd. If the BS can not get past the affair at some point, than the marriage is over, IMO.

 

If the BS is unhappy and feels they are a victim of the WS, then it is very unhealthy to continue the marriage.

 

IMO, when someone has an affair, they know it might cause a divorce.

 

Personally, I think the idea of divorce is likely always in the back of the mind of the WS, too.

 

I know, if my wife had not been willing to acknowledge her contribution to the dysfunction of the marriage, and if after a number of years she was still beating me over the head with the affair, I would have not only preferred divorce. I would have taken action and filed. I would wonder why she too did NOT prefer divorce, herself, if she felt like my victim.

 

IMO, I don't see that an affair is always abusive. If it is discreet it is not. If it is flaunted to friends and family and the WS refuses to end it once the affair comes to light, then that is abuse.

 

There are many many forms of abuse in a marriage, and playing the martyr and the victim forever is one form of emotional abuse in a marriage.

 

How does one define beating a ws over the head? Bringing it up if something triggers the bs? Saying it came into her mind, she's having a bad day and could us ea bit of extra comforting?

 

Is a bs supposed to just swallow their pain and never bring it up again because it might annoy the ws or make them feel a twinge of guilt?

[understand50]

What I can't understand is when either the ws uses the A as a way of browbeating the bs into towing the line.

 

While I don;t think this happens all that often, there are some ws who know their bs doesn;t want to divorce and will do just about anything to keep the together. The ws uses their A as an unspoken threat. These ws see the as being the fault of the the bs, and will use the threat of a future A to keep their bs towing the line.

 

it;s one thing for a ws to explain that there are issues in the M they feel need to be addressed, as these are almost never one sided and require both spouses to remedy them. it's quite another to say "you'd better chnage your behavior to do/ be what I wat or I'll cheat again". In that situtaion the bs is left running like crazy on a hamster wheel, desperate trying to be what the ws thinks they should be.

 

To me, that would be abuse, not reconciliation and the WS is not doing what needs to be done. In that case, I would advise the BS to divorce, as a reconciliation cannot be built on threats.

[Liam1]

To me, that would be abuse, not reconciliation and the WS is not doing what needs to be done. In that case, I would advise the BS to divorce, as a reconciliation cannot be built on threats.

 

Excellent point, if the wayward spouse is not doing what needs to be done that would be abuse.

 

Conversely, if the BS is not doing what needs to be done, that is also abuse.

 

A reconciliation can not be built on threats. Any type of threat.

 

A marriage can not be built on threats either, such as using the threat of divorce to get one's way in a marriage.

 

That goes for the BS threatening divorce to get their way, after the affair. Divorce should never be used as a threat, that would be abusive.

 

If a person gets to the point that they are asking for a divorce the marriage is over, to my mind. There is no compromise desired on the part of the person asking for divorce. It is just over.

 

An affair is not typically sought as a threat. It would only be considered being used as a threat if the WS is a serial philanderer with a personality disorder, who refused to stop having affairs.

 

IMO, refusing sex is abusive, if it has been discussed repeatedly as an issue.

 

Sex, is normal human desire and to deny someone sex, and then to blame them when they take it from someone who offers it freely, that is emotional abuse.

 

If a spouse is not having sex with his/her spouse, why on earth would they care if they got that desire satisfied with someone else.

 

You can not cheat someone out of something they do not value.

[wmacbride]

Excellent point, if the wayward spouse is not doing what needs to be done that would be abuse.

 

Conversely, if the BS is not doing what needs to be done, that is also abuse.

 

A reconciliation can not be built on threats. Any type of threat.

 

A marriage can not be built on threats either, such as using the threat of divorce to get one's way in a marriage.

 

That goes for the BS threatening divorce to get their way, after the affair. Divorce should never be used as a threat, that would be abusive.

 

If a person gets to the point that they are asking for a divorce the marriage is over, to my mind. There is no compromise desired on the part of the person asking for divorce. It is just over.

 

An affair is not typically sought as a threat. It would only be considered being used as a threat if the WS is a serial philanderer with a personality disorder, who refused to stop having affairs.

 

IMO, refusing sex is abusive, if it has been discussed repeatedly as an issue.

 

Sex, is normal human desire and to deny someone sex, and then to blame them when they take it from someone who offers it freely, that is emotional abuse.

 

If a spouse is not having sex with his/her spouse, why on earth would they care if they got that desire satisfied with someone else.

 

You can not cheat someone out of something they do not value.

 

What do you think the ws should be doing?

 

One of the foundations of a good marriage is communication. Spouses should be able to talk to each other about anything, even if it might make their husband or wife uncomfortable. Surely, this would cover a bs bringing up their feelings about the a, should they feel the need to do so.

 

By this I don't mean that they should start lashing out at the ws, but rather that they try and calmly talk to them about it, giving both a chance to express how they feel. Sometimes, all that's needed is a hug or kind word to make both parties feel better, sometimes it's much more than that.

 

Keeping a bs from expressing their feelings because it makes their ws uncomfortable just leads to anger and resentment, especially if they are made to feel guilty for doing so.

 

Just speaking form my own experience, I should have spoken up about the issues I saw in my H and pushed him harder to get help , but I didn't. I just let it go, and look what that accomplished. Nothing, except to make my H feel even worse and go through pain longer than he might have otherwise.

 

All of the counselors, therapists and other professionals we saw made the pint that recovering from traumatic experiences will take time, and there may always be things that trigger negative memories. They said that the best way to deal with that is for the spouses to face them head on and not hide from them. The first counselor we saw also made the extremely good point that reconciliation is not for the faint of heart, nor is it for everyone. Many start out with really good intentions of making it work, but as they go through the process they find that they can't ever feel comfortable, and in this case, divorce may be what's best for them.

[OldRover]

still failing to see how this is the fault of the BS. Many more options than affair.

 

I think you meant: In MARRIAGE, it's rare when there isn't blame on all sides.

 

No, I meant affairs. It takes two for an affair, and often there's a third of fourth that contributes to it by alienating their spouse, or neglect or whatever.

 

Rarely happens where there isn't "some" issue with the marriage.

[katielee]

No, I meant affairs. It takes two for an affair, and often there's a third of fourth that contributes to it by alienating their spouse, or neglect or whatever.

 

Rarely happens where there isn't "some" issue with the marriage.

 

I disagree. Yes it takes two - the WS and the AP. But often - more often - there is nothing wrong with the BS - that's just an excuse WS use so they can justify poor behavior.

[Mr. Lucky]

No, I meant affairs. It takes two for an affair, and often there's a third of fourth that contributes to it by alienating their spouse, or neglect or whatever.

 

Rarely happens where there isn't "some" issue with the marriage.

 

I find this to be more than a little disingenuous, every marriage can be construed to have "some" issue. Especially after the fact when the revisionist history begins...

 

Mr. Lucky

[HereNorThere]

Yup, I've had both a male and female friend cheat and eventually divorce in the past year.

 

My female friend - "My new husband was boring and never wanted to go out". Umm, okay, but you dated for 5 years before you got married. Was he different then? Well, no, not really. So you married him knowing he was boring and liked staying home, but now it's a deal breaker? Sounds to me like you're fishing for excuse.

 

Same story with my male friend except it's "she's really moody and judgemental." Which I totally agree with, but he already knew this when they got married. Why is it all of a sudden a big deal 20 years later? I'm guessing it has something to do with new blonde he got caught with.

 

And that to me is the scariest part. Thinking that you met someone who accepts you and later turns on you to justify their bad behavior. Sure, blaming the BS is par for the course, but if you married someone and you already knew they were this way or that way, that's what you signed up for. You already made your choice. It's really strange to watch grown people regress into teenagers, but it seems so common once and affair starts. It's just weird and painfully obvious.

[ladydesigner]

The original post just feels very enabling and rug-sweeping. I truly think it's a one way street to get cheated on again. I've never met a cheater who stopped without serious consequences.

 

1. I'm just suppose to forgive and never mention it again? My friend, that is rug-sweeping. The BS has every right to discuss and bring up the infidelity as long as they need to heal and the includes the rest of their life. If the WS can't handle that, they should go start over with someone new. Adults should be held accountable for their actions and if you cheat on your spouse, they're allowed to bring it up. And forgiveness isn't really a choice as much as it is a product of time and the positive actions by the WS. Seriously, I can't think of worse advice to give a BS than "forgive and don't talk about it unless it happens again."

 

2. The gift and the hard work it implies? A gift is given without expecting anything in return. Sorry, but any sort of reconciliation should be earned. You don't wrap it up and give it to them like on iPod on Christmas morning. And it is hard work dealing with all of the pain the person caused you, but it's almost sounds like you're victim-blaming a little and implying that the BS should be trying to win over or compete for their WS. If anyone should be doing hard work and giving gifts, it's the the cheater.

 

3. The benefit of the doubt? Sure, that's something you can earn back in time I suppose, but you didn't provide a time table. Depending on the level of deception, I think that benefit could be earned back in 2 to 5 years. Unless you're married to a serial cheater, someone who committed paternity fraud or carried on an affair for an extended period of time. You really shouldn't ever give a truly disordered person the benefit of the doubt ever. It's important to manage your expectations based on what your spouse is truly capable of not, not what you wish they were capable of.

 

4. Equals? Maybe in time, but that's just another part of rug-sweeping if it's not earned. The truth is you aren't equals. One of the partners is abusive and cares less about the relationship, marriage, their partner, their partner's health and well-being, and their children more than the other one does. There's no reason to make up some sort of alternate reality where you are equals. Given enough time in work, a WS could possibly reach that level again, but we're talking years here. Equals? Really? So you can destroy your whole family, but we're reconciling so we're equals? That's not even logical.

 

I do think most of the things on this list are legitimate, but they are things that come long, long after you've decided to reconcile and the cheater has earned them from you. They don't automatically come with the decision to grant a person a chance to earn your trust again.

 

This post is outstanding! I am in total agreement with this!

[ladydesigner]

Personally, I think if a BS truly feels the spouses actions were abusive and that they have no part in the dysfunction of the marriage,then they should divorce.

 

Why stay in the marriage, if one feel they are a martyr and a victim?

 

The BS has the option to divorce, too.

 

To detain and torture the WS is odd. If the BS can not get past the affair at some point, than the marriage is over, IMO.

 

If the BS is unhappy and feels they are a victim of the WS, then it is very unhealthy to continue the marriage.

 

IMO, when someone has an affair, they know it might cause a divorce.

 

Personally, I think the idea of divorce is likely always in the back of the mind of the WS, too.

 

I know, if my wife had not been willing to acknowledge her contribution to the dysfunction of the marriage, and if after a number of years she was still beating me over the head with the affair, I would have not only preferred divorce. I would have taken action and filed. I would wonder why she too did NOT prefer divorce, herself, if she felt like my victim.

 

IMO, I don't see that an affair is always abusive. If it is discreet it is not. If it is flaunted to friends and family and the WS refuses to end it once the affair comes to light, then that is abuse.

 

There are many many forms of abuse in a marriage, and playing the martyr and the victim forever is one form of emotional abuse in a marriage.

 

Well this post can apply to me because some probably see what I am doing as holding my WS hostage. I never wanted this infidelity nor to D. I have been given the sh*t sandwich to eat and I'm tired of eating it so I've stopped. I am currently making a decision for myself and my kids PERIOD. I will leave when I am ready. If my WH has an epiphany great, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

 

I do not want my kids to be raised by another unless I am forced to D or my WH becomes so unbearable to be with that I have to leave for my own sanity. Those are my conditions.

 

Right now my WH is never home and we get along so there is no upset in our house currently.

 

It is not a decision I would suggest to anyone, but it is mine currently.

 

My WH held me hostage for years, not knowing he was the serial cheat until this last A he had with MOW. I'm sure what I am doing is not as bad as what he has done to me.

[wmacbride]

To be quite frank, the whole things of some ws saying what amounts to " my bs did x, y or z so there I should get to have an a, feel fine about it, and then strut around like I am the cock of the walk because my bs stayed with me afterwards and should put aide his or her emotional pain simply because it annoys me to hear about it" is puzzling.

 

it's even more puzzling when they expect the bs to listen to them when they have a problem, but if the bs bring up an issue they are having, they should simply keep quiet, lest they be seen as browbeating their ws about the A.

[ladydesigner]

To be quite frank, the whole things of some ws saying what amounts to " my bs did x, y or z so there I should get to have an a, feel fine about it, and then strut around like I am the cock of the walk because my bs stayed with me afterwards and should put aide his or her emotional pain simply because it annoys me to hear about it" is puzzling.

 

it's even more puzzling when they expect the bs to listen to them when they have a problem, but if the bs bring up an issue they are having, they should simply keep quiet, lest they be seen as browbeating their ws about the A.

 

Thank you! The bold highlights the whole dynamic that I'm constantly struggling with. Now I don't engage at all with my WH. He can figure his own problems out now.

[Liam1]

Lady designer:

 

I agree. The sh*t sandwich often goes both ways. In your case it does, apparently.

 

At least you are aware of what you are doing and are able to be honest with yourself about it.

 

Still, I would encourage you to leave only when you feel ready. If and when or ever. You have a valid reason to not rush into a divorce, but as you note, you have given up and you are not wishing to make your marriage work anymore.

 

Divorce is not that simple, as you noted. Also why rush into divorce, when you have been miserable for so long. What difference will it make?

 

Obviously there are many people who are sort of trapped in terrible marriages because of kids or finances.

 

Regarding rewriting the marital history that someone else brought up: Sometimes neither the BS or WS rewrite the marital history.

 

That was how my marriage survived. Neither of us did that. We both accepted responsibility and we both willingly blamed ourselves for obvious preexisting issues.

 

That is the only logical and rational approach, IMO, if one truly loves their spouse and truly wants to make the marriage work.

 

But, I have seen situations where the BS rewrites the marital history to eliminate any contributions or faults that led to the failure of the marriage.

 

Suddenly, after the affair, the BS is perfect, a spotless white angel and the WS is a selfish, self absorbed dark devil. The BS insists beyond all rational sane logic that they did absolutely nothing wrong in the marriage.

 

Sometimes, too, the BS falsely claims the BS is rewriting the marital history, even if the WS had valid complaints that he/she tried to repeatedly address.

 

In those cases, the BS was blind to the issues plaguing the marriage and they still want to remain blind, perhaps in order to preserve the image of their own false perfection seared into their own minds.

 

Sometimes it IS the WS who rewrites the marital history, but not always.

 

In my experience it is just as often and perhaps too often the BS.

 

As an outsider looking in on other people's marriage I see this many times after an affair comes to light.

 

As an outsider, I can see the faults of both spouses. And, unless there is a personality disorder involved, typically, when there is an affair, there were failings that are obvious to both spouses.

 

I stay out of my friends marital issues, but that does not mean I am blind deaf and dumb to them. I see them, our mutual friends see them, their families see the issues.

 

Sometimes, too, its the BS that has the personality disorder by my observations and everyone in their friends circle was wondering when the other spouse was going to lose it.

 

Yet, that BS, who is PD by all accounts of friends and family, will insist that the unfaithful spouse is rewriting the marital history.

 

When a marriage is dysfunctional, if neither spouse has a Personality disorder, than BOTH spouses contributed to the dysfunction.

 

It is tough to admit fault, but when a BS refuses to accept any responsibility for the breakdown of the marriage, then that is obviously likely the ONE most obvious reason the WS had an affair.

 

That reason being that the faithful spouse refuses to see their own faults or admit there is a problem.

 

 

 

 

 

Well this post can apply to me because some probably see what I am doing as holding my WS hostage. I never wanted this infidelity nor to D. I have been given the sh*t sandwich to eat and I'm tired of eating it so I've stopped. I am currently making a decision for myself and my kids PERIOD. I will leave when I am ready. If my WH has an epiphany great, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

 

I do not want my kids to be raised by another unless I am forced to D or my WH becomes so unbearable to be with that I have to leave for my own sanity. Those are my conditions.

 

Right now my WH is never home and we get along so there is no upset in our house currently.

 

It is not a decision I would suggest to anyone, but it is mine currently.

 

My WH held me hostage for years, not knowing he was the serial cheat until this last A he had with MOW. I'm sure what I am doing is not as bad as what he has done to me.

[wmacbride]

That was how my marriage survived. Neither of us did that. We both accepted responsibility and we both willingly blamed ourselves for obvious preexisting issues.

 

If your posts on this thread are any indication, you are not practicing what you preach by any stretch of the imagination.

 

You blame your affair on your spouse's lack of interest in having sex with you.You painted that situation as being all her fault, and that you not have cheated, barring her actions. It almost comes off as if you expect your spouse to apologize to you for what you did

 

Maybe I have missed something. Can you explain your role in the state of the marriage before the affair?

[katielee]

 

 

 

When a marriage is dysfunctional, if neither spouse has a Personality disorder, than BOTH spouses contributed to the dysfunction.

 

.

 

but the decision to have an AFFAIR to deal with the pain of that dysfunction is ALL ON THE WS.