this just happened

[ShatteredLady]

How do you stick your feet in once faith, understanding, cherishing has gone?

[ShatteredLady]

Sorry Katie.

[MuddyFootprints]

Good question.

 

How do you?

 

How long should you suffer?

 

Dabbling your toes ain't gonna reconcile a marriage.

[Mrs. John Adams]

The ONLY times I ever thought about divorce post affair....was near the anniversary of DDay every year. Why? Because that was when he triggered the most....went into deep depression.....and I felt like he was punishing me. I did not want to divorce.....but every year I would ask him if that was what he wanted. His answer was always no.

 

Even then....it was never my choice...I wanted what was best for him.

 

Have you ASKED your spouse what they think is best for them? Instead of assuming what they truly think?

 

and can you possibly stop thinking about your own needs just for a minute...and truly think about theirs?

 

Is it possible that we become so self absorbed that we lose our perspective of what reconciliation is?

 

Do we only concentrate on our own discomfort instead of looking at the whole picture?

 

Life is a day to day lesson...and reconciliation is a day to day process...sometimes we take one step forward and two steps back.

 

Do we become our own worst enemy because we cannot get out of our own heads?

[katielee]

I was just thinking I would LOVE to know what his needs are. I'm going to ask at MC. We'll see what he says.

In two weeks he has a weekend planned away with his friend. I was going to the lake with my friends. There was talk about us meeting up at the lake. But he wont' say what he really wants to do. So, I'm going to just plan for my time away. I guess if he joins us, fine.

 

I would never divorce over not being able to handle his triggering, that is the point here. I would divorce if I thought I was being disrespected. That has what I've been struggling with. Is he being disrespectful or not?

 

What is reconciliation - taking care of each other, treating the relationship like its precious. I will ask him what his view is.

 

SL - I'm sorry you're feeling that way. You have choices too.

[katielee]

Divorce hasn't ever been off the table for you.

 

Neither one of you has both feet in this marriage, as far as I can tell.

 

It's unfortunate. Despite your history, you love each other and have a family legacy to cherish and to grow.

 

MC is going to be challenging for both of you.

 

no, it isn't off the table but I think I have both feet in the marriage. I think that's what you do after infidelity. Watch actions. Hope for the best. Try really hard.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I was just thinking I would LOVE to know what his needs are. I'm going to ask at MC. We'll see what he says.

In two weeks he has a weekend planned away with his friend. I was going to the lake with my friends. There was talk about us meeting up at the lake. But he wont' say what he really wants to do. So, I'm going to just plan for my time away. I guess if he joins us, fine.

 

I would never divorce over not being able to handle his triggering, that is the point here. I would divorce if I thought I was being disrespected. That has what I've been struggling with. Is he being disrespectful or not?

 

What is reconciliation - taking care of each other, treating the relationship like its precious. I will ask him what his view is.

 

SL - I'm sorry you're feeling that way. You have choices too.

 

Describe for me what his being disrespectful would involve...

[katielee]

Describe for me what his being disrespectful would involve...

 

 

go to places either OW is likely to be. Or at least us not discussing it first, if he must for his job.

sending female co-workers smiley faced text messages.

things like that.

[Mrs. John Adams]

go to places either OW is likely to be. Or at least us not discussing it first, if he must for his job.

sending female co-workers smiley faced text messages.

things like that.

 

so basically breaking no contact......gotcha

 

Would you say that if he does those things...and we all know he recently has....do you think he is purposely being disrespectful? or is he perhaps just being insensitive?

 

Because We know there is a difference...

 

My other question would be why? Why has he become less sensitive to your needs and pains and triggers and hurts?

 

Has something happened to make him less cognitive of his behavior? less aware that he is stepping over your line?

[katielee]

so basically breaking no contact......gotcha

 

Would you say that if he does those things...and we all know he recently has....do you think he is purposely being disrespectful? or is he perhaps just being insensitive?

 

Because We know there is a difference...

 

My other question would be why? Why has he become less sensitive to your needs and pains and triggers and hurts?

 

Has something happened to make him less cognitive of his behavior? less aware that he is stepping over your line?

 

I would say insensitive. but these kinds of things have happened since the beginning so i'm not sure if I would say he is becoming less sensitive. It just is the way he is. And I keep waiting for change - like instrinsic change.

I will ASK HIM his thoughts, but I think it's more of - that is all in the past, let's live like normal people who haven't had affairs. And I'm more like, let's really take care of each other here and make the other feel safe.

Perhaps we need to meet in the middle.

 

But NC with OW is a pretty definite line for me.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I would say insensitive. but these kinds of things have happened since the beginning so i'm not sure if I would say he is becoming less sensitive. It just is the way he is. And I keep waiting for change - like instrinsic change.

I will ASK HIM his thoughts, but I think it's more of - that is all in the past, let's live like normal people who haven't had affairs. And I'm more like, let's really take care of each other here and make the other feel safe.

Perhaps we need to meet in the middle.

 

But NC with OW is a pretty definite line for me.

 

So he is no different. So are you different? Has something changed within YOU to make you MORE sensitive to the things he does and the things he says?

 

If he has not changed...but these things are upsetting you...then you have to be introspective and figure out what has changed within you.

[katielee]

So he is no different. So are you different? Has something changed within YOU to make you MORE sensitive to the things he does and the things he says?

 

If he has not changed...but these things are upsetting you...then you have to be introspective and figure out what has changed within you.

 

I have getting upset about these things for 4 years. No real change.

[understand50]

katielee,

 

Here are some questions.

 

Before everything, the cheating on each side, how was your marriage? Did your husband do the same thing as now, or maybe along the lines? Was your reaction the same, or have you changed?

 

Idea, with the added emotional baggage of infidelity, does this just make what was going on in your marriage, more intense? OR is this a new thing from him and a new reaction from yourself?

 

IF this has been going on your whole marriage, I do not think things will change.

 

As Always I wish you luck......

[katielee]

katielee,

 

Here are some questions.

 

Before everything, the cheating on each side, how was your marriage? Did your husband do the same thing as now, or maybe along the lines? Was your reaction the same, or have you changed?

 

Idea, with the added emotional baggage of infidelity, does this just make what was going on in your marriage, more intense? OR is this a new thing from him and a new reaction from yourself?

 

IF this has been going on your whole marriage, I do not think things will change.

 

As Always I wish you luck......

 

Our marriage was fairly good. I can think of two situations. One- when he was accused of academic dishonesty working on his MBA and had to go before a board and plead his case. I supported him. Two - when he was accused of taking info from the last bank he worked at. I supported him but when it was on the news, sat him down and told him how humiliated I was over that. Not much discussion other than those two things, in roughly 25 years.

 

I don't think we were tested before. We certainly turned to each other and he confided in me. But I think infidelity is a different beast. We NEVER had a fight before infidelity.

[aliveagain]

katielee, sometimes were just guys, women always expect me to be able to read their minds for some reason. Sometimes we just have to be told. Don't get me wrong, I'm one of the most sensitive guys I know, I always have at least three bouquets of fresh cut flowers in my house that get replaced once a week. My home always smells of lemon flowers, lime leaves or fresh Eucalyptus thanks to Lampe Berger but when I need to be I can still be a crazy apesh*t protector. I still need to be told sometimes.

[katielee]

katielee, sometimes were just guys, women always expect me to be able to read their minds for some reason. Sometimes we just have to be told. Don't get me wrong, I'm one of the most sensitive guys I know, I always have at least three bouquets of fresh cut flowers in my house that get replaced once a week. My home always smells of lemon flowers, lime leaves or fresh Eucalyptus thanks to Lampe Berger but when I need to be I can still be a crazy apesh*t protector. I still need to be told sometimes.

 

thanks alive. I need to be reminded that I am assuming and I can't read his mind. That is unfair of me.

[Mrs. John Adams]

It also sounds to me like you have issues with forgiveness and letting things go.

 

The things in his past still bother you....sometimes I worry that he is not even aware of WHY you cheated.......

 

He sounds like he just simply wants to live life....forget the past....and move forward....and you are still sitting there spinning your wheels. You are clearly not on the same page...and I am afraid not even in the same book.

[katielee]

I don't know how you're getting at that MrsJA. Those things from our past I used to explain the marriage to Understand and any situations we might have had where we had to interact in a crisis. I'm not mad about them still. Was then but not now.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I don't know how you're getting at that MrsJA. Those things from our past I used to explain the marriage to Understand and any situations we might have had where we had to interact in a crisis. I'm not mad about them still. Was then but not now.

 

So you are saying those things are in the past...but I use them to explain the kind of person he is....so that you understand where he is coming from.

 

But if it is in the past...and it remains irrelevant then they no longer apply.

 

I would like to know....what frame of mind were you in during the time of your affair? What had your husband done..to cause you to seek solace elsewhere?I think it might help us to understand your frame of mind now.

 

If you are frustrated with him....if you consider him to be insensitive and disrespectful now.....what was he during the time of your affair?

[katielee]

So you are saying those things are in the past...but I use them to explain the kind of person he is....so that you understand where he is coming from.

 

But if it is in the past...and it remains irrelevant then they no longer apply.

 

I would like to know....what frame of mind were you in during the time of your affair? What had your husband done..to cause you to seek solace elsewhere?I think it might help us to understand your frame of mind now.

 

If you are frustrated with him....if you consider him to be insensitive and disrespectful now.....what was he during the time of your affair?

 

my husband had done nothing. we had a very child centered marriage. our son was in Afghanistan, the nest was emptying, I was questioning my identity... none of that had anything to do with him. It was all in me.

during the time of the affair he was just being his normal self. oh I get what you're saying - he was not considering me.. maybe. but now I don't get to act out for him not taking me into consideration.

[Mrs. John Adams]

my husband had done nothing. we had a very child centered marriage. our son was in Afghanistan, the nest was emptying, I was questioning my identity... none of that had anything to do with him. It was all in me.

during the time of the affair he was just being his normal self. oh I get what you're saying - he was not considering me.. maybe. but now I don't get to act out for him not taking me into consideration.

 

Agree totally....and understand completely where you are coming from. John had done nothing wrong either...it was all on me.

 

and no...nothing gives us the right to cheat....even though you and i cheated first...it does not excuse our husbands behaviors.....

 

Here's what I am trying to understand....how is it he seems to have moved past your infidelity...he seems to be able to continue life...but you cannot?

 

Why? What is it that keeps you from being able to do as he has done? What does he need to do for you...that you have done for him...so that you feel safe and can move forward?

[ShatteredLady]

My H's first A was in reality far worse than his 2nd but I handled it so much better once d-day happened & I knew what was going on. I've thought about this a lot!

 

Ok there's children, dependency & low self esteem because of my health but it's more than that.

 

I think it's because this time I read the words!! I heard the poetic declarations of adoration. He was so very considerate of her...he found out she had health issues & was taking medications. He wanted to learn everything about it (well he told her he did!) you can imagine how that hit me!! She got the dream man I wanted.

 

It there a similarity Katie? Was your A a physical thing? Did you read your H words in his EA's? Is it harder because there were 2? Did you have a d-day after each or did both come out together? Did he appear more considerate?

 

Just wondering?

[katielee]

real quick... more soon.

After an hour, finally, MC looked at him and said, "you are no where near emotionally transparent enough for her." That would make her feel SO much better... so MJA - you are close, I think.

[MuddyFootprints]

I wonder if neutralizing the conversation would be of benefit to your communication.

 

I often bring up discussions that are here and we talk about them generically. It doesn't necessarily to evolve into a personal discussion, but it's an outlet to express thoughts and feelings safely.

[merrmeade]

This isn't a question of trust. It's communication. He purposely didn't tell me.

We've had the conversation of how it should go. He neglected to follow the script. Wanna change the script? Fine. But let's talk about it first.

I don't believe this at all, kl — the bolded part — and I've been saying to you (about your situation) every single time I read it that it seems so clear to me you are assuming way too much about what he knows, remembers and intends. I've read this multiple times. Even about the commercial itself. In fact, as you'll recall, when you first told me about it, I couldn't even grasp the problem. It sounded like you were upset because he didn't (basically) remember to read your mind. Yes, he should remember. Yes, you've been through enough that he should remember. But he didn't this time. So you reminded him after the fact.

katielee, sometimes were just guys, women always expect me to be able to read their minds for some reason. Sometimes we just have to be told. ... I still need to be told sometimes.

This is exactly what I was thinking.

thanks alive. I need to be reminded that I am assuming and I can't read his mind. That is unfair of me.

This is no small thing. Neither on of you can read the other's mind.

 

No, I disagree with all the angst and expectations you put on each other and triggers. Can you really hold him responsible for so much when your lives are so impossibly intertwined with the OWs . What I've NEVER been able to get my head around is expecting so much when you LIVE IN THE SAME COMMUNITY and always have the potential of running into them.

 

I could not live like that and I live with someone who has to be told everything.