this just happened

[Mrs. John Adams]

I understand this. The burying himself in work concerns me. Dont buried things always raise to the surface?

 

To be clear, I wanted emotional intimacy, but I didn't even give him the chance to work on that with me. If I would have asked he might have given. We'll never know. And now I'm asking him to be vulnerable in a situation I've created with mistrust.

 

exactly sweetheart...you got it

 

You created the atmosphere...and you expect him to react the way you want him to

 

I do not necessarily believe buried things rise to the surface..it is not THAT kind of buried....he is not in denial...he knows exactly what he is doing...he is working to make a better life for the two of you. He could throw up his hands and say...what the hell...she is going to take half anyway so why do i care?

 

He is conscientiously doing the best he can knowing full well...you could call it quits at any given moment.

Sometimes people speak with actions instead of words....my daddy is a man who tells me he loves me by his actions....not his words

 

It is up to us to see the message they are sending. Your husband sends you a message everyday. He says I love you katielee....and i am doing the best i can.

 

It is up to you to accept the message....

[OneLov]

Katielee,

 

Your husband is stonewalling you by using emotional detachment. Why is he doing that? It is imperative to figure that out.

 

Communication: Overcoming The Barriers | The Marriage I Want

[katielee]

Onelov - it's a manipulative tactic used so you dont have to face shame or dig deeper into feelings.

I can't figure it out for him. Although I realize it's happening and I agree with you.

i don't feel any shame with how I handled what happened this weekend.

I truly think ppl don't understand how much time it takes to handle a trust violation...

[Mrs. John Adams]

Katielee,

 

Your husband is stonewalling you by using emotional detachment. Why is he doing that? It is imperative to figure that out.

 

Communication: Overcoming The Barriers | The Marriage I Want

 

stonewalling her????

 

Can you explain that?

 

Maybe he is protecting himself.....

[JohnAdams]

Onelov - it's a manipulative tactic used so you dont have to face shame or dig deeper into feelings.

I can't figure it out for him. Although I realize it's happening and I agree with you.

i don't feel any shame with how I handled what happened this weekend.

I truly think ppl don't understand how much time it takes to handle a trust violation...

 

I doubt anyone here, with the exception of Mrs. Adams and I, understands how much time it takes to handle a trust issue.

 

I am sorry you have this situation, but, I think you do realize this is not a quick fix. We all wish there was a quick fix.

 

The two of you may never fix this trust issue. Can you live with that? You can never return to your pre-affair marriage. How do you move forward?

[OneLov]

Onelov - it's a manipulative tactic used so you dont have to face shame or dig deeper into feelings.

I can't figure it out for him. Although I realize it's happening and I agree with you.

i don't feel any shame with how I handled what happened this weekend.

I truly think ppl don't understand how much time it takes to handle a trust violation...

 

It's not always a manipulation tactic and often a defense mechanism. It creates a barrier to block out overwhelming emotional stress. I'm not going to speculate why he is doing it because it would not be fair. I'm also not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just saying it is lethal to any relationship if it continues.

 

On stonewalling,

 

"Stonewalling is a complex issue. People shut down for myriad reasons. People who have experienced trauma may disconnect from themselves and thereby disconnect from the relationship, said Heather Gaedt, PsyD, a clinical psychologist in Palm Desert, Calif., who specializes in couples (particularly with those with eating disorder and addiction issues). Partners might shut down because they’re keeping secrets or feel resentment if it’s a topic they’ve talked about over and over.

 

Not surprisingly, stonewalling is damaging to relationships. “The person who chooses to stonewall is no longer participating in self-reflection and subsequently personal growth,” Spease said. Rather than contributing to the well-being of the relationship, they impede it from moving forward, she said.

 

According to Nickerson, “The recipient of stonewalling feels ignored, misunderstood, invalidated, and just plain hurt.” Many people tell her “they feel so unimportant that they don’t even deserve a response.”

 

 

Source: Stonewalling in Couples: When You or Your Partner Shuts Down | Psych Central

[katielee]

what is the difference between stonewalling and simply not wanting to talk though?

 

last night - bolted awake at 2, tried to get back to sleep and finally left to sleep on couch.

He came to find me and I said, "it is taking me a while to get over this weekend." he said, "but I didn't do anythign wrong." I said, "a text is how I figured out your first affair. I thought something was going on. Imagine the sinking feeling in my gut. It took me back to that feeling. I triggered. Hard. that is why I needed about three conversations for clarity on this." He said "but if I say I'm sorry that means I did something wrong and I didn't." I said, "imagine I have a broken leg, you had nothing to do with it breaking, wouldn't you feel for me?" He said "yes, but I wouldn't be sorry, that would mean I had something to do with it. I would feel bad for you. I DO feel bad for you. I just don't know how to act." I said, "just be here for me."

 

So if this would have happened to him I would have said something like how sorry I was for putting him in a position where things like this can trigger him, etc.

But, I guess he kind of gets it.

[Mrs. John Adams]

But he is not you and you are not him... And you both handle things differently.

 

You accept him the way he is and stop trying to change him to be like you want him to be.

 

It sounds to me like he cares... He got up to check on you.. And he talked about it with you and he explained where he is coming from.

 

He is right... He did nothing wrong. He is sorry you triggered.

 

I hope at some point he took you in his arms and comforted you...

 

But you don't say

[katielee]

oh yes, he did!

I know we're different. But that has taken me a lot of work to get through and understand and come to grips with.

I'm not saying that like it was a bad thing. In fact, I will use the broken leg analogy again. It's a good way to separate the trigger from the event.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I am glad he did katielee

 

He reached out to you in his own way and God bless him he is trying

[frogss29]

Katielee,

Does your husband still trigger from your affair?

And I suppose, for him, each time something happens re his past affair he is taken back to a time of shame so I can understand why he doesn't really want to talk much.

I think this forum (especially your post) has really helped me open my eyes a lot more.

I have tended to be caught in a bit of a time warp sometimes even though things have really moved forward and are so much more healthy and happy.

But I am super villigent and aware and super sensitive

My husband has said it is like walking a tightrope sometimes .

And I have always figured that is his lot.

He SHOULD have to suffer.

He SHOULD have to walk a tightrope

I think I had thought all my wrongs had been wiped clean because of his affair.

That my pain was much worse than the pain I had caused him.

I am by no means saying any of this is the case for you.

Just , this is what has gone through my mind while reading this thread.

I can completely understand all you are going through.

Hope your day is going better.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Katielee,

Does your husband still trigger from your affair?

And I suppose, for him, each time something happens re his past affair he is taken back to a time of shame so I can understand why he doesn't really want to talk much.

I think this forum (especially your post) has really helped me open my eyes a lot more.

I have tended to be caught in a bit of a time warp sometimes even though things have really moved forward and are so much more healthy and happy.

But I am super villigent and aware and super sensitive

My husband has said it is like walking a tightrope sometimes .

And I have always figured that is his lot.

He SHOULD have to suffer.

He SHOULD have to walk a tightrope

I think I had thought all my wrongs had been wiped clean because of his affair.

That my pain was much worse than the pain I had caused him.

I am by no means saying any of this is the case for you.

Just , this is what has gone through my mind while reading this thread.

I can completely understand all you are going through.

Hope your day is going better.

 

This is interesting....I had my affair...two years later my husband had a reactive affair....and i have never dwelled on his affair...I have always thought of myself as a wayward...and i have spent the last thirty years concentrating on my husbands pain instead of my own.

 

Quite the opposite of Katielee....and with this post if i am reading it right....you share the same mentality as katielee.

 

So it makes me wonder about my own recovery.

[frogss29]

I think, for those who have had an affair, the buzz lingers on long after it finishes........UNTIL you experience the other side of the coin.

Once you feel the pain of being cheated on, any buzz that might have lingered completely disappears.

COMPLETELY

You no longer have any thoughts or fantasies or illusions about that past experience.

It means nothing to you any longer.

ALL your energy, if you decide to stay with your partner , is focused on them!

But, you also remember how you felt during that recovery after your own affair.

Although you love your BS and completely want to stay married to them with NO thoughts of resuming an affair, you also remember those times when you did remember the highs of that illicit relationship.

So, you also KNOW your WH or WW also is going through those same feelings.....even though they 100% want to stay with you and you know, as much as you can ever know, that they will never stray again.

And it is THAT knowledge that keeps you caught in the pain.

And maybe that is why those of us who have cheated once and then have been cheated on have a harder time recovering........they understand too much.

[katielee]

This is interesting....I had my affair...two years later my husband had a reactive affair....and i have never dwelled on his affair...I have always thought of myself as a wayward...and i have spent the last thirty years concentrating on my husbands pain instead of my own.

 

Quite the opposite of Katielee....and with this post if i am reading it right....you share the same mentality as katielee.

 

So it makes me wonder about my own recovery.

 

 

as you say, MrsJA, we are all different. I know WS/BS who think like you.

[katielee]

I think, for those who have had an affair, the buzz lingers on long after it finishes........UNTIL you experience the other side of the coin.

Once you feel the pain of being cheated on, any buzz that might have lingered completely disappears.

COMPLETELY

You no longer have any thoughts or fantasies or illusions about that past experience.

It means nothing to you any longer.

ALL your energy, if you decide to stay with your partner , is focused on them!

But, you also remember how you felt during that recovery after your own affair.

Although you love your BS and completely want to stay married to them with NO thoughts of resuming an affair, you also remember those times when you did remember the highs of that illicit relationship.

So, you also KNOW your WH or WW also is going through those same feelings.....even though they 100% want to stay with you and you know, as much as you can ever know, that they will never stray again.

And it is THAT knowledge that keeps you caught in the pain.

And maybe that is why those of us who have cheated once and then have been cheated on have a harder time recovering........they understand too much.

 

oh God, frogs, effing WORD!

 

I might add, I know how easy it was to NOT go down that path. They say people are doing their best. No, they're not. I wasn't.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I think, for those who have had an affair, the buzz lingers on long after it finishes........UNTIL you experience the other side of the coin.

Once you feel the pain of being cheated on, any buzz that might have lingered completely disappears.

COMPLETELY

You no longer have any thoughts or fantasies or illusions about that past experience.

It means nothing to you any longer.

ALL your energy, if you decide to stay with your partner , is focused on them!

But, you also remember how you felt during that recovery after your own affair.

Although you love your BS and completely want to stay married to them with NO thoughts of resuming an affair, you also remember those times when you did remember the highs of that illicit relationship.

So, you also KNOW your WH or WW also is going through those same feelings.....even though they 100% want to stay with you and you know, as much as you can ever know, that they will never stray again.

And it is THAT knowledge that keeps you caught in the pain.

And maybe that is why those of us who have cheated once and then have been cheated on have a harder time recovering........they understand too much.

 

thanks for answering....i think your viewpoint is very interesting.

 

I had no lingering affair buzz...but then i only had one encounter with my AP....and I will say this...while Johns affair stung...i felt i deserved it...so I did not experience any of the things you describe.

 

I concentrated on helping him to heal from my affair and I knew beyond any shadow of a doubt...that he had his affair to try to get into my head and figure what in the hell I was thinking that i could betray him. So I never worried that he was emotionally caught up in the ow....I knew he used her...just like my ap used me. Not once have i feared that he was experiencing some kind of affair high.

 

So I am not nor have i ever been "caught up" in the pain of his affair...I have concentrated on his pain.....and maybe that is why i have not experienced many of the things you have described. I don't worry that he will cheat again....just like i don't worry that i will cheat again.

 

I know that he would never have cheated had i not cheated first....i caused the whole damn mess.

 

So in our 33 years of healing...I have concentrated on healing his pain....I have concentrated on becoming a better person....I have concentrated on making sure that i have strict boundaries and i remain transparent....I have concentrated on communicating and making my marriage my number one priority.

[ShatteredLady]

I know that these are painful questions to answer but I think it makes a big difference....

 

I know Mr Adams had a revenge EA. Was it very 'lovey dovey'? Did he make promises & say "I love you" etc?

 

Did Mr Katie have 2 ONS? Was it 'getting off' (kissing + touching) with women at events? Were they lengthy EA's before/after? Did he say the words? Future faking etc?

 

I know that both of you say that your Mr's wouldn't of strayed if you hadn't of had A's first. Both of your (Mrs) affairs were PAs, did they involve the 'words', soul mates etc? Promises & plans?

 

Was yours before you had children Katie?

 

Having experienced 2 very different kinds of H affairs, for me, the worst things were...Them talking about our kids. (Him praising her as a mother & critisizing me.) Reading the words "I love you", "First thing I think of in the morning, last thing I think of at night", all the passion words & "forever" stuff.

 

I was wondering if the differences between you (& others who have both had affairs) is the depth & length of the different A's. If my H's 2nd A had been a ONS with a stranger, or if he'd only had 1, or (if like Liam) he didn't like her, I think my pain & recovery would be very different.

 

If my H had experienced many opportunities with women & turned them down over the years things would be different too. I guess that works both ways though...trust when he has lots of offers vs few opportunities & never saying "no!".

 

I think (you never know) I'd be like Mrs Adams & carry more of the guilt & pain than blame of Mr Adams. I don't know the details of his EA though.

 

I hope you all know what I mean & don't mind answering.

[frogss29]

Every marriage is different, but the same

Every affair is different, but the same

 

I definitely felt I deserved what happened

And while I was dealing with my own unbearable pain, I was also trying to help my husband heal.

 

Like you, Mrs JA, we have been married for a long time.

 

My biggest regret in life was not facing and dealing with our problems earlier on.

 

My greatest joy is looking at our life now and realising just how lucky we are now.

It isn't perfect.

I still suffer so much heartache at times.

But, our marriage is strong.

We truly love each other.

And we communicate !!!!!!

[katielee]

But wouldn't you say having an affair to get inside someone's head is very different than setting out to purposely hurt them?

[Mrs. John Adams]

I know that these are painful questions to answer but I think it makes a big difference....

 

I know Mr Adams had a revenge EA. Was it very 'lovey dovey'? Did he make promises & say "I love you" etc?

 

Did Mr Katie have 2 ONS? Was it 'getting off' (kissing + touching) with women at events? Were they lengthy EA's before/after? Did he say the words? Future faking etc?

 

I know that both of you say that your Mr's wouldn't of strayed if you hadn't of had A's first. Both of your (Mrs) affairs were PAs, did they involve the 'words', soul mates etc? Promises & plans?

 

Was yours before you had children Katie?

 

Having experienced 2 very different kinds of H affairs, for me, the worst things were...Them talking about our kids. (Him praising her as a mother & critisizing me.) Reading the words "I love you", "First thing I think of in the morning, last thing I think of at night", all the passion words & "forever" stuff.

 

I was wondering if the differences between you (& others who have both had affairs) is the depth & length of the different A's. If my H's 2nd A had been a ONS with a stranger, or if he'd only had 1, or (if like Liam) he didn't like her, I think my pain & recovery would be very different.

 

If my H had experienced many opportunities with women & turned them down over the years things would be different too. I guess that works both ways though...trust when he has lots of offers vs few opportunities & never saying "no!".

 

I think (you never know) I'd be like Mrs Adams & carry more of the guilt & pain than blame of Mr Adams. I don't know the details of his EA though.

 

I hope you all know what I mean & don't mind answering.

 

Shattered lady....

 

My affair was with a college professor....and i had one encounter with him. He knew I was married and had two small children.

 

Johns affair was with a fellow student....there was making out...but no intercourse....and he told her upfront that he was married and that i had had an affair.

 

There were no promises made.... no i love yous exchanged... in his affair or mine.

 

I hope that answers your questions.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Every marriage is different, but the same

Every affair is different, but the same

 

I definitely felt I deserved what happened

And while I was dealing with my own unbearable pain, I was also trying to help my husband heal.

 

Like you, Mrs JA, we have been married for a long time.

 

My biggest regret in life was not facing and dealing with our problems earlier on.

 

My greatest joy is looking at our life now and realising just how lucky we are now.

It isn't perfect.

I still suffer so much heartache at times.

But, our marriage is strong.

We truly love each other.

And we communicate !!!!!!

 

 

The only hurt i suffer is when i see john trigger and i know it is my fault.

 

and yes we have been married 44 years...and i agree with you....i look at our life now and know we are very very lucky.

[Mrs. John Adams]

But wouldn't you say having an affair to get inside someone's head is very different than setting out to purposely hurt them?

 

Katielee...john was in a mindset that he simply did not care who he hurt. I truly think he hoped that when he confessed to me...that i would kick him out. I think he was self destructive. Did he also hope i would be jealous and fight for him? probably....

 

I think he was struggling with so much anger and hurt that he just wanted the pain to stop....and if that meant making me make the decision to call it quits...so be it.

 

He was absolutely suicidal...he would sit and plan his demise. He was taking anti depressants.....

 

So was it his intention to "pay me back and hurt me" probably....but it was so much more than that...it was multi faceted....and deep. I could see it in his eyes...and i knew that i had no one to blame but me.

 

I felt sorry for myself for a very short while....but i knew i had to help this man...or i would forever lose him...and he became my focus.

 

Katielee...I am not saying i did it right....and I know we are all different.

[frogss29]

Shattered lady,

Don't they say that for women whose partners have had affair(s) it is the words rather than the act that hurts the most?

And for men, it is the deed rather than the words of love etc that hurts?

And, if it is more than a ONS, don't words HAVE to be said to keep the affair in a bubble and justified ?

And, when push comes to shove, we all have choices. Once the affair is discovered, we can leave our marriage. Everything is out on the table then. And if you chose to stay and are dealing with the HUGE fallout every day and night, and you STILL chose to stay, then that says a lot.

I know, for me, I was/am difficult to deal with. Not sure if that is because I was punishing him or in such pain. Maybe a mix of both.

And I think we all have people interested in us. We just don't notice the attention because we are not looking for that sort of thing............unless, one day, you feel so unloved/fed up/whatever and then you notice someone paying you too much attention.

OR you have such a big ego and think everyone is interested in you - and who would want to have a long term relationship with someone like that???

[ShatteredLady]

Mrs A. In many ways I feel that I 'get' Mr A more than most people I've read on forums. He says so many things (& you state things about him) that I completely understand because they're things I've thought to myself. Sadly I'm not married to YOU dear friend! (You know what I mean?). You're both wonderful people in my book

 

Froggy - "if it is more than a ONS, don't words HAVE to be said to keep the affair in a bubble and justified ?". I thought so but apparently not. I've read some say it's just a sex thing or they NEVER spoke of their partners or feelings?!?!

 

I've read that for women it's the feelings & men it's the physical that hurts most. I believe that in reality any loving man would be crippled by reading "I love you" from his W too her AP & "he's the best father in the world" & "The kids MIGHT have some fond memories of doing things with Dad" would be killers...just like for a woman.

 

I really don't know. It ALL hurts so much! 'Would one rather have a hand or a foot ripped off?'!!!!! Agony is agony isn't it?

 

It's lovely to read that another couple is doing so well. It truly warms my heart.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Mrs A. In many ways I feel that I 'get' Mr A more than most people I've read on forums. He says so many things (& you state things about him) that I completely understand because they're things I've thought to myself. Sadly I'm not married to YOU dear friend! (You know what I mean?). You're both wonderful people in my book

 

Froggy - "if it is more than a ONS, don't words HAVE to be said to keep the affair in a bubble and justified ?". I thought so but apparently not. I've read some say it's just a sex thing or they NEVER spoke of their partners or feelings?!?!

 

I've read that for women it's the feelings & men it's the physical that hurts most. I believe that in reality any loving man would be crippled by reading "I love you" from his W too her AP & "he's the best father in the world" & "The kids MIGHT have some fond memories of doing things with Dad" would be killers...just like for a woman.

 

I really don't know. It ALL hurts so much! 'Would one rather have a hand or a foot ripped off?'!!!!! Agony is agony isn't it?

 

It's lovely to read that another couple is doing so well. It truly warms my heart.

 

my dear sweet lovely friend....i do think you understand mr adams.....i killed him...i truly killed him....as your husband has you.....

 

the difference is...I saw what i did to him....and have done my best to heal the hurt i caused...and your husband has not yet "seen" the light.

 

I adore you sweet girl....you know that.....hugs to you every single day