Thanks to This Forum, Day 1 of NC.

[stilltrying16]

I agree- Grapes' point about the false competition is so perceptive.

 

Chuff, hats off to you. You are a strong and funny lady. I'm sorry you were sad earlier but you will be ok. I have so much respect for you. Hang in there and please take care. Sending you strength!

[Chuff]

Thanks StillTrying. Love your handle, too. Aren't we all.

 

I'm starting to wonder now if maybe I'm confusing my depression with missing him. My A didn't cause my depression, but it certainly contributed. Or maybe it was just a trigger and the depression was waiting for the last foot to drop.

 

Because now that it's Springtime, and there's more sun, and I'm more active outside, and my AD's have had time to do their thing, my dark cloud has lifted. And a couple of days ago was the first time I had actually felt weepy in what...9 days? That's like 6 mths in affair years.

 

Anyway, just rambling here.

 

Wishing all of my fellow captives in addiction-bondage (privategal, stilltrying, grapesofwrath, girlfromcali, ms. faust, solonely, shatteredlady, londongirl, daisy69, force, cymbeline, Jenks...who did I forget???) strength and peace - enough to get through today.

[stilltrying16]

Chuff!!! You are amazing. I'm so happy for you!!!

 

:bunny:

 

Why isn't there a slow clap emoticon when we need one? Bunnies will have to do instead.

 

You know I did wonder when I read your last post whether all of your sadness was over him- or if it included that typical deflation we get when adrenaline floods out of the body -because we no longer have a need for it. It took a lot of chutzpah (and adrenaline) to keep on keeping on the way you did the last few days.

 

And thank you so much for your good wishes. They mean a lot coming from you! My current addictions are different- more banal and more self-inflicted (but it's ok- I'm dealing). Posts like yours cheer me up!

[Ophelia25]

Thanks StillTrying. Love your handle, too. Aren't we all.

 

I'm starting to wonder now if maybe I'm confusing my depression with missing him. My A didn't cause my depression, but it certainly contributed. Or maybe it was just a trigger and the depression was waiting for the last foot to drop.

 

Because now that it's Springtime, and there's more sun, and I'm more active outside, and my AD's have had time to do their thing, my dark cloud has lifted. And a couple of days ago was the first time I had actually felt weepy in what...9 days? That's like 6 mths in affair years.

 

Anyway, just rambling here.

 

Wishing all of my fellow captives in addiction-bondage (privategal, stilltrying, grapesofwrath, girlfromcali, ms. faust, solonely, shatteredlady, londongirl, daisy69, force, cymbeline, Jenks...who did I forget???) strength and peace - enough to get through today.

 

One of the things my first therapy visit helped me to think about is how the A relates to depression, which I have dealt with even longer than the A. She said that it sounds like I have sort of hinged my depressive tendencies on the AP, that I view him as the only thing that lifts me out of it. Of course, that's a typical addictive behavior, but I did think about that a lot. And while I know the depression is chemical, it's so hard to understand that perhaps I look for emotional things to hinge it on. His attention give me the shot of whatever I need, both chemically and emotionally, to get by, and therefore I NEED him, even though I don't really need him.

[Grapesofwrath]

Thanks StillTrying. Love your handle, too. Aren't we all.

 

I'm starting to wonder now if maybe I'm confusing my depression with missing him. My A didn't cause my depression, but it certainly contributed. Or maybe it was just a trigger and the depression was waiting for the last foot to drop.

 

Because now that it's Springtime, and there's more sun, and I'm more active outside, and my AD's have had time to do their thing, my dark cloud has lifted. And a couple of days ago was the first time I had actually felt weepy in what...9 days? That's like 6 mths in affair years.

 

Anyway, just rambling here.

 

Wishing all of my fellow captives in addiction-bondage (privategal, stilltrying, grapesofwrath, girlfromcali, ms. faust, solonely, shatteredlady, londongirl, daisy69, force, cymbeline, Jenks...who did I forget???) strength and peace - enough to get through today.

 

Thanks for the shout-out, Chuff. I love what I'm seeing here. You are doing the difficult work, hanging tough. Same thing going on here. It's tough. Sometimes I am so angry I just want to scream. I notice I have been a bit weepy lately, and I know it's because I am going through a "break-up" though I can't tell anyone that.

 

Here's what, though: Mother's Day is around the corner. Last year on Mother's Day I spent at least an hour, lying on my bed, crying my eyes out. Deep, wracking sobs. I felt so rejected, confused, and abandoned. MM had sent me some little text in the morning, wishing me a Happy Mother''s Day, but he was spending the day with his wife and kids, as he should. I felt like I was locked out of the kind of life I wanted, knew the A was the reason why I was stuck in misery, and couldn't see my way clear to get out of it. At least not yet. Now I have found the path, and this year Mother's Day will be very different.

[jenkins95]

Grapes and Chuff! Proud of you both! These are the kind of posts we like to read! You are both inspirational!

[Girlfromcali]

One of the things my first therapy visit helped me to think about is how the A relates to depression, which I have dealt with even longer than the A. She said that it sounds like I have sort of hinged my depressive tendencies on the AP, that I view him as the only thing that lifts me out of it. Of course, that's a typical addictive behavior, but I did think about that a lot. And while I know the depression is chemical, it's so hard to understand that perhaps I look for emotional things to hinge it on. His attention give me the shot of whatever I need, both chemically and emotionally, to get by, and therefore I NEED him, even though I don't really need him.

 

I've thought about this too. All of a sudden life had meaning, I saw colors again, I wanted something (him), I had passion...all these things that I hadn't felt for such a long time. I felt alive. Then, bam..everything was taken away in an instant. It was a lie, not real. So, what am I supposed to do now? I didn't really have anything before the A, so what am I supposed to do when the addiction is gone?

 

I don't think emotionally healthy people even get themselves in to the mess in the first place, and that's why I think it's more important to look at yourself instead of the MM. Although, I know we all do that..analyze the MM to death. Like that's going to help anything.

[Onlywhenitrains]

I've thought about this too. All of a sudden life had meaning, I saw colors again, I wanted something (him), I had passion...all these things that I hadn't felt for such a long time. I felt alive. Then, bam..everything was taken away in an instant. It was a lie, not real. So, what am I supposed to do now? I didn't really have anything before the A, so what am I supposed to do when the addiction is gone?

 

I don't think emotionally healthy people even get themselves in to the mess in the first place, and that's why I think it's more important to look at yourself instead of the MM. Although, I know we all do that..analyze the MM to death. Like that's going to help anything.

 

 

So true!

 

Every moment of thinking/analyzing what HE said, did or was thinking when he was saying it/doing it just makes you spiral down into never-ending circles where no answers are to be found. Combine that with false hope that is always there, and imagination overtakes reason.

 

I've been lately thinking a lot about myself, and who I was before the affair, during the affair, and what I want now and going forward. That introspection helps, and I know it may create more questions than answers in the beginning. But, at least those questions will be about myself, and my thoughts and actions. Not him. Hopefully with time, I'll find answers. I guess that's what healing and learning from the A experience is all about.

[Chuff]

I don't think emotionally healthy people even get themselves in to the mess in the first place, and that's why I think it's more important to look at yourself instead of the MM. Although, I know we all do that..analyze the MM to death. Like that's going to help anything.

 

Exactly.

 

Which is why I've been thinking more and more about the "science" behind my addiction...and addiction in general. And why NC truly is the only way to go when you're (we're) trying to break the addiction cycle - it all goes back to BF Skinner and operant conditioning.

[Girlfromcali]

Exactly.

 

Which is why I've been thinking more and more about the "science" behind my addiction...and addiction in general. And why NC truly is the only way to go when you're (we're) trying to break the addiction cycle - it all goes back to BF Skinner and operant conditioning.

 

I just wish Skinner or Pavlov would explain, why do I keep going back even when I get hurt...time after time!

 

Even Pavlov's dog wasn't that dumb.

[waterwoman]

I just wish Skinner or Pavlov would explain, why do I keep going back even when I get hurt...time after time!

 

Even Pavlov's dog wasn't that dumb.

 

In some areas dogs are far less dumb than people!

 

Many years ago I drifted into an EA with a work colleague. It ended dramatically when he decided he wanted more - I left my job. I never intended to leave my marriage - not in a million years - but I have come to see now that I was addicted to the feeling I got from that relationship. I kept the memory of his 'love' for me when things got difficult and I needed that little bit of extra validation. It was an addiction of a sort that was slowly poisoning my marriage. H's affair made me look at what I had been doing and how much damage I had done with my refusal to face up to it. How dumb is that?

 

I run now. A lot. I have done plenty of 10k races and am training for my first half marathon. I know it sounds odd but that is my new addiction. It gives me the healthy validation I need (and I am fitter than I have ever been in my life) I get the buzz I need from that.

[Grapesofwrath]

I just wish Skinner or Pavlov would explain, why do I keep going back even when I get hurt...time after time!

 

Even Pavlov's dog wasn't that dumb.

 

From one Cali girl to another: Great question. I think recognizing this is the first step toward getting free. If the A is now hurting most of the time, the operant conditioning is changing. It takes a while, but you are being reconditioned to associate the A with pain, not with pleasure. Focus on that. Because it will motivate you to free yourself.

 

Every time you feel the impulse to reach out to or text your MM, just take a monment to remind yourself of the pain that will cause you. The daggers you will feel when he talks about a life that is closed off to you. The feeling inside you when the door closes behind him as he leaves. Remind yourself of that and you will find it easier to put down the phone and keep moving toward freedom.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Grapesofwrath

[stilltrying16]

I really love this discussion of small, practical ways we can fight addictions!!

 

 

Exactly.

 

Which is why I've been thinking more and more about the "science" behind my addiction...and addiction in general. And why NC truly is the only way to go when you're (we're) trying to break the addiction cycle - it all goes back to BF Skinner and operant conditioning.

 

Same here! I also have been wondering what the commonalities are between various addictions. Which strategies to fight addiction actually work across very different addictions.

 

I just wish Skinner or Pavlov would explain, why do I keep going back even when I get hurt...time after time!

 

Even Pavlov's dog wasn't that dumb.

 

No- but I have you beat in the dumb going back department! Though it was a long time ago, the memory still makes me cringe.

 

In some areas dogs are far less dumb than people!

 

Many years ago I drifted into an EA with a work colleague. It ended dramatically when he decided he wanted more - I left my job. I never intended to leave my marriage - not in a million years - but I have come to see now that I was addicted to the feeling I got from that relationship. I kept the memory of his 'love' for me when things got difficult and I needed that little bit of extra validation. It was an addiction of a sort that was slowly poisoning my marriage. H's affair made me look at what I had been doing and how much damage I had done with my refusal to face up to it. How dumb is that?

 

I run now. A lot. I have done plenty of 10k races and am training for my first half marathon. I know it sounds odd but that is my new addiction. It gives me the healthy validation I need (and I am fitter than I have ever been in my life) I get the buzz I need from that.

 

This is so great, waterwoman. I've come across this theory in so many places- that you can't end addictions, but you can switch them. Or sometimes the theory goes that Switching to a new addiction is easier than curing an old one. It's so great to get your take on this, waterwoman, because its worked for you. I wish my new addictions would be as healthy as yours, though.

 

All these posts are so good to read and they leave me with so much hope. I wish we could collect a list of practical tips about things that have helped people in their daily lives- not large daunting life-altering changes, but simple, small changes that are easy to incorporate. For example, promising yourself that you will spend at least 10 minutes in the sun, or outdoors.

 

Anyway, thank you and good luck to everyone on this journey!

Edited April 27, 2016 by stilltrying16

[Girlfromcali]

I think I have addictive personality. Pretty much everyone in my family has struggled with addiction.

I have been obsessed about people before, even women -not in a sexual or creepy way-but sometimes I just get "stuck" thinking about a person, and they barely know about my existence. I don't act crazy or anything, I just obsess in silence. I think it's because I'm so lonely and anti-social.

 

Anyhow, I think the operant conditioning is finally working since today has been the first real NC day, and I mean real in that there's no peeking in any social media sites etc. I mean I'm not that crazy that I'd check his Facebook (that I haven't done in a long time), but now there's no desire to any kind of contact. I texted him a week ago, and I was thinking now I'll wait two weeks. But there's zero desire to text, I doubt there will be...a lot of it is thanks to this site.

[Chuff]

 

Even Pavlov's dog wasn't that dumb.

 

:laugh:

[Chuff]

In some areas dogs are far less dumb than people!

 

Many years ago I drifted into an EA with a work colleague. It ended dramatically when he decided he wanted more - I left my job. I never intended to leave my marriage - not in a million years - but I have come to see now that I was addicted to the feeling I got from that relationship. I kept the memory of his 'love' for me when things got difficult and I needed that little bit of extra validation. It was an addiction of a sort that was slowly poisoning my marriage. H's affair made me look at what I had been doing and how much damage I had done with my refusal to face up to it. How dumb is that?

 

I run now. A lot. I have done plenty of 10k races and am training for my first half marathon. I know it sounds odd but that is my new addiction. It gives me the healthy validation I need (and I am fitter than I have ever been in my life) I get the buzz I need from that.

 

Not dumb! Human.

 

And this is where I am too - replacing one addiction with a "healthier" one...or should I say...a more socially acceptable addiction - triathlon training.

[Chuff]

I think I have addictive personality. Pretty much everyone in my family has struggled with addiction.

I have been obsessed about people before, even women -not in a sexual or creepy way-but sometimes I just get "stuck" thinking about a person, and they barely know about my existence. I don't act crazy or anything, I just obsess in silence. I think it's because I'm so lonely and anti-social.

 

 

Same here. It runs in my family too, which is why I have to be very mindful of my alcohol intake.

 

My therapist told me something interesting yesterday. She agreed that NC is the only way to break the addiction cycle, however, you're not truly free from it until you get to the point where hearing from exAF doesn't affect you at all. She said that sometimes NC is too emotionally draining because we put so much pressure on ourselves to maintain it. Not true in every case, of course.

 

But I had told her that it felt like I had gotten to a point where I just didn't care about exMM anymore because my new dating relationship is going so well. (My A was "only" 3-4 mths, and no sex). She said that that's a sign that my self esteem is back (or well on it's way to being back).

 

My favorite bit of advice from her is: "The best way to get over a man is to get under one." LMAO!!!! She's in her 60s and has been counseling for over 40 years and has seen it all.

[Girlfromcali]

I think NC puts a lot of pressure too, and in general putting timelines or deadlines when I'm supposed to be over him. I've said it before, can't remember if it was this thread so if I'm repeating myself, I apologize, but when I saw the movie Swingers, and it took him six months to get over his ex, so I thought it would take six months.

I didn't really have a real A, either, and I only saw him twice because he lives really really far from me.

Somebody mentioned memory of his "love", and I think I do that, also. I think about that sometimes to just feel better. However, I'm in a point where I don't want to talk to him anymore.

Of course, he texted today. It wasn't emotional or anything, I won't let it go there anymore. So, my first reaction was pleasure, and then disappointment, all in ten seconds. It doesn't give me pleasure anymore. I guess I'm learning finally. I know that eventually there won't be any emotional reaction at all, and I would probably be there already had I done NC.

[Josmatjes]

I just wish Skinner or Pavlov would explain, why do I keep going back even when I get hurt...time after time!

 

Even Pavlov's dog wasn't that dumb.

 

It's because even though you get hurt most of the time there is always that one shot that you don't. It's like people who gamble, they know eventually their number may hit. It's an awful cycle !

[Girlfromcali]

It's because even though you get hurt most of the time there is always that one shot that you don't. It's like people who gamble, they know eventually their number may hit. It's an awful cycle !

 

Yeah, it is, and that's why affairs are so damaging. Like a month ago he was emotionally charged about something so he said he was "my man". I think he said it without thinking or he didn't mean to hurt me intentionally (I sure hope so). I told him to have pity on me and not to do that, because when he says things like that it's a reward that just..it feels like pleasure all over my body!

Or when we broke up, and I didn't talk to him for four months, then when we talked, and he said he still loves me, it felt like someone wrapping me in a warm blanket. That feeling is hard to explain to "normal people".

Anyway, now I'm the dog who is scared of the shock almost. When he texted me, pleasure, and then pain because I'm already conditioned to feel the pain afterwards. It's so stupid.

[Josmatjes]

Yeah, it is, and that's why affairs are so damaging. Like a month ago he was emotionally charged about something so he said he was "my man". I think he said it without thinking or he didn't mean to hurt me intentionally (I sure hope so). I told him to have pity on me and not to do that, because when he says things like that it's a reward that just..it feels like pleasure all over my body!

Or when we broke up, and I didn't talk to him for four months, then when we talked, and he said he still loves me, it felt like someone wrapping me in a warm blanket. That feeling is hard to explain to "normal people".

Anyway, now I'm the dog who is scared of the shock almost. When he texted me, pleasure, and then pain because I'm already conditioned to feel the pain afterwards. It's so stupid.

 

I hear you. For me it's the loss of power. I feel like if I react to anything than he has won! Like he would say hi and I'd say hi back and then nothing for an hour and your like wtf! It's like a game to them and I think they all know exactly what they are doing. I treated my mm like gold, always listening and being concerned and he'd still do the game playing. I just realized for me that I just don't feel like being hurt anymore. I'd rather feel sad and get over it then completely a basket case waiting for the next text! Even thinking about it is so ridiculous!

[Girlfromcali]

I hear you. For me it's the loss of power. I feel like if I react to anything than he has won! Like he would say hi and I'd say hi back and then nothing for an hour and your like wtf! It's like a game to them and I think they all know exactly what they are doing. I treated my mm like gold, always listening and being concerned and he'd still do the game playing. I just realized for me that I just don't feel like being hurt anymore. I'd rather feel sad and get over it then completely a basket case waiting for the next text! Even thinking about it is so ridiculous!

 

Yeah, the loss of power is hard too. I treated my mm the same way, it was all about him. I remember he would call me, and the cut the call short out of nowhere, and say "I'll call you right back". And have a guess, if he ever did call me back? That's right, he never did. So even that was always a "shock" for me. I got used to it so after awhile if he'd call and say he'll call back, I wasn't expecting it.

Now, I'm at the point where I don't care anymore. So, for a long time now, it has been ME who sends the last text and stops texting. That makes me feel I have gotten some of the power back.

[Josmatjes]

Yeah, the loss of power is hard too. I treated my mm the same way, it was all about him. I remember he would call me, and the cut the call short out of nowhere, and say "I'll call you right back". And have a guess, if he ever did call me back? That's right, he never did. So even that was always a "shock" for me. I got used to it so after awhile if he'd call and say he'll call back, I wasn't expecting it.

Now, I'm at the point where I don't care anymore. So, for a long time now, it has been ME who sends the last text and stops texting. That makes me feel I have gotten some of the power back.

 

Yes, here's another one. He'd text till around 5 or so when he was on his way home from work so when he got close he'd say, I gotta go I'll text tomorrow, gotta delete now! And that was code for don't text me anymore tonight. It would hurt that he would have to completely delete me from his phone every night even though I knew why. It made me feel invisible and like i wasnt worth anything.It was just so messed up and I'd look at myself and be like what the hell am I doing? The man has to delete me. What if I need him? Nope.... We never spoke on weekends but once he texted for me not to go to a certain store cause him and his wife were there, I was angry, not at that but At the fact that he had the nerve to text me where to not go..

[Chuff]

It's because even though you get hurt most of the time there is always that one shot that you don't. It's like people who gamble, they know eventually their number may hit. It's an awful cycle !

 

This is it exactly!!!!!!!!!!

 

This also explains why when/if you go NC and AP tries to push your buttons (as mine did) and you respond, even in anger, it only reinforces the cycle and guarantees you will hear from him again.

 

Another tidbit from the therapist - men love attention - even negative attention. They equate ALL attention as caring for them. So those couple of times when I let him get my goat with his cruel mindf*cking emails and I blasted him, he interpreted it as "she still cares."

[stilltrying16]

Yes, here's another one. He'd text till around 5 or so when he was on his way home from work so when he got close he'd say, I gotta go I'll text tomorrow, gotta delete now! And that was code for don't text me anymore tonight. It would hurt that he would have to completely delete me from his phone every night even though I knew why. It made me feel invisible and like i wasnt worth anything.It was just so messed up and I'd look at myself and be like what the hell am I doing? The man has to delete me. What if I need him? Nope.... We never spoke on weekends but once he texted for me not to go to a certain store cause him and his wife were there, I was angry, not at that but At the fact that he had the nerve to text me where to not go..

 

I'm so sorry, Jos. Big hug to you. <3

 

This is it exactly!!!!!!!!!!

 

This also explains why when/if you go NC and AP tries to push your buttons (as mine did) and you respond, even in anger, it only reinforces the cycle and guarantees you will hear from him again.

 

Another tidbit from the therapist - men love attention - even negative attention. They equate ALL attention as caring for them. So those couple of times when I let him get my goat with his cruel mindf*cking emails and I blasted him, he interpreted it as "she still cares."

 

Oh good heavens. I don't know whether to puke or LMAO. (Sorry, too graphic).

 

Chuff, thank you.

 

I'm like a dog with a bone for things I'm curious about, and cheating is a big one for me still- so thank you for this brand new insight.

 

Some of the threads currently active on NC have been chockfull of fabulous advice. Maybe it should be collected and put into a sticky post!