Thanks to This Forum, Day 1 of NC.

[Chuff]

So, I've been dating a good guy for about a month now and am feeling SO much better about myself. Therapy, ADs, trusted friends, this forum, and exercising have been key to my healing.

 

After weeks of NC, xMM emailed me a Youtube video of a Comedy Central clip and it made me laugh. So I emailed him back. (Shhh...don't worry...I'm fine. )

 

And we were able to communicate like adults. As it turns out, he didn't understand why him breaking NC and emailing me was such a bad thing. I explained that it kept me hanging on to hope and that when he ignored my request for NC, I felt like he didn't care about my feelings and how it would affect me.

 

Let's face it - many men are obtuse about our feelings and such.

 

His response: "Ohhh. Now I get it. I'm so sorry. That was not my intent at all."

 

Do I believe him? Absolutely. This is the person that I knew pre-EA.

 

We cleared the air about a few more things and apologies were given and accepted.

 

I told him I was getting ready for a date, and he wished me a fun evening.

[Girlfromcali]

I explained to my fMM too that it's not healthy for me having an affair in a long message. He said he understands and is sorry, and never wanted to hurt me. I really think he was genuine.

 

But the problem with a "friend" relationship with him is that no matter what, one of us will slip something emotional eventually. It might even be an accident, (like it always is with me) and it takes you right back to that emotional place, and makes me you go "aww".

 

So it always starts with the innocent YouTube clip. And I totally understand where you're coming from because I'm much happier when he is in my life, even when it's just two mundane text messages a week.

It's such a weird thing chuff because I might feel I'm over him and I have this happiness that I don't love him anymore, and the little things that used to be attractive are not anymore etc etc.

 

I'm really thinking to myself that I don't have feelings for him anymore, and why is everyone saying we can't be friends?

Then something happens and I go right back to desperation/anger/sadness, and I realize I've been lying to myself about not having feelings . If you have zero contact, those trigger feelings would never happen.

 

I hope it's better for you since you're dating the new guy, and if and when you fall in love with someone else, it will help of course.

[Chuff]

I explained to my fMM too that it's not healthy for me having an affair in a long message. He said he understands and is sorry, and never wanted to hurt me. I really think he was genuine.

 

But the problem with a "friend" relationship with him is that no matter what, one of us will slip something emotional eventually. It might even be an accident, (like it always is with me) and it takes you right back to that emotional place, and makes me you go "aww".

 

So it always starts with the innocent YouTube clip. And I totally understand where you're coming from because I'm much happier when he is in my life, even when it's just two mundane text messages a week.

It's such a weird thing chuff because I might feel I'm over him and I have this happiness that I don't love him anymore, and the little things that used to be attractive are not anymore etc etc.

 

I'm really thinking to myself that I don't have feelings for him anymore, and why is everyone saying we can't be friends?

Then something happens and I go right back to desperation/anger/sadness, and I realize I've been lying to myself about not having feelings . If you have zero contact, those trigger feelings would never happen.

 

I hope it's better for you since you're dating the new guy, and if and when you fall in love with someone else, it will help of course.

 

Excellent points!!

 

I don't want, or plan on having continued communication with him for these reasons. I don't want to test myself, per se, and what happens if my current dating r'ship falls apart? (after last night's date, it's a good possibility! lol)

 

I just don't feel the angst or pressure anymore of staying NC or worrying if he does contact me. And I refuse to change my email address to keep him from contacting me too. Way too much energy to do that and update everything associated with that email.

 

For the record, I have reached out to his wife too. We were friends at one time, and I let her know that I'm available should she want to talk.

 

All I want right now is peace, and to move on and leave this in the past.

 

We shall see.

[Josmatjes]

I explained to my fMM too that it's not healthy for me having an affair in a long message. He said he understands and is sorry, and never wanted to hurt me. I really think he was genuine.

 

But the problem with a "friend" relationship with him is that no matter what, one of us will slip something emotional eventually. It might even be an accident, (like it always is with me) and it takes you right back to that emotional place, and makes me you go "aww".

 

So it always starts with the innocent YouTube clip. And I totally understand where you're coming from because I'm much happier when he is in my life, even when it's just two mundane text messages a week.

It's such a weird thing chuff because I might feel I'm over him and I have this happiness that I don't love him anymore, and the little things that used to be attractive are not anymore etc etc.

 

I'm really thinking to myself that I don't have feelings for him anymore, and why is everyone saying we can't be friends?

Then something happens and I go right back to desperation/anger/sadness, and I realize I've been lying to myself about not having feelings . If you have zero contact, those trigger feelings would never happen.

 

I hope it's better for you since you're dating the new guy, and if and when you fall in love with someone else, it will help of course.

 

That's what I've been doing the past year. I was trying for us to be friends but it doesn't work. There are still too many emotions involved. Plus if your friendship is a secret I think your still technically having an affair. It takes a lot of energy to keep a friendship like that a secret. I ended up ending my friendship with him recently in a not so nice way. I told him to basically just never contact me ever again, ever. I feel badly and want to reach out and say sorry but I know that would just start the whole cycle again.....

[Girlfromcali]

That's what I've been doing the past year. I was trying for us to be friends but it doesn't work. There are still too many emotions involved. Plus if your friendship is a secret I think your still technically having an affair. It takes a lot of energy to keep a friendship like that a secret. I ended up ending my friendship with him recently in a not so nice way. I told him to basically just never contact me ever again, ever. I feel badly and want to reach out and say sorry but I know that would just start the whole cycle again.....

 

I agree that it's not really a friendship, at least not yet.

 

I have decided that I'm not going the get mad at him or say things like stop contacting me... It would give him too much power, because he'd think I care. It's like a power game between us because when he gets mad at me, I feel he still cares about me, so I know he feels the same way.

I did something worse. I did something that would make him rage, but he can't say anything because we're just "friends". It was something that I know would be a total turn off for him. Me getting angry at him is not a turn off. I know better ways to do that. Me getting angry gives him too much power...and I'm not down for that.

 

I am absolutely now ready for total NC because I can't pretend we're friends if I'm still playing games.

[Josmatjes]

I agree that it's not really a friendship, at least not yet.

 

I have decided that I'm not going the get mad at him or say things like stop contacting me... It would give him too much power, because he'd think I care. It's like a power game between us because when he gets mad at me, I feel he still cares about me, so I know he feels the same way.

I did something worse. I did something that would make him rage, but he can't say anything because we're just "friends". It was something that I know would be a total turn off for him. Me getting angry at him is not a turn off. I know better ways to do that. Me getting angry gives him too much power...and I'm not down for that.

 

I am absolutely now ready for total NC because I can't pretend we're friends if I'm still playing games.

 

Are you going to tell him goodbye and go no contact or just go dark on him?

[Girlfromcali]

Are you going to tell him goodbye and go no contact or just go dark on him?

 

No, I don't think I have to tell him anything because I have been aloof for weeks already. He texts me once a week "how are you", then I respond "fine", then he asks what I've been up to, I say nothing...then I stop texting.

 

Then a week after the same thing...so he knows.

 

But now I think I just won't even respond at all if he texts me. I think I'm finally ready.

 

If that doesn't work then I will tell him to stop, but I'm not going to come at him from an angry place. It won't be emotional. It's just done.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Girlfromcali

[Chuff]

So it always starts with the innocent YouTube clip.

 

You too??

 

There really is a "script" for AP's, isn't there?

[Chuff]

 

But now I think I just won't even respond at all if he texts me. I think I'm finally ready.

 

If that doesn't work then I will tell him to stop, but I'm not going to come at him from an angry place. It won't be emotional. It's just done.

 

This is where I want to be. Just done. No anger, no excitement, no emotion at all. I think this is what my therapist was talking about when she explained how I'd know when I was truly free - I wouldn't "need" NC anymore because nothing about him would evoke ANY sort of emotion.

 

I think you're ready too. Good luck!!!

[Chuff]

So, I thought I would use my thread just to update now and then, for those of you who have been following, or who may learn something from my mistakes.

 

Things are going well...very well...with the new dating relationship. And because of this, I'm sure, it's allowed me to take a closer look as to how in the heck did I "fall in love" with a MM.

 

My therapist said that the heart loves who it loves. And, she also said that I was in a vulnerable state, having just asked my H for a divorce a week prior, when MM kissed me. I was NOT a victim here. I DESPISE that mentality. Because...I kissed him back. We'd been friends for over 2 years and just clicked because of our similar backgrounds.

 

We still see each other now and then because of our hobbies, and I feel...nothing. I don't know if I'd feel the same way if the new BF was a d*uche. Just being honest.

 

MM still emails me, and sometimes I respond. Most of the time I ignore. I know he's fishing, and I've told him about BF. But, we have had a few email conversations where it was like old times - when we were just friends. And we WERE just. friends. He isn't a serial cheater, and his feelings for me totally threw him for a loop.

 

AND, he actually came clean to his IC after 3 mths and told her about me. He said once he started he couldn't stop. Yes, he's telling the truth. And he thanked me for encouraging him to tell the truth.

 

The emails are getting fewer and fewer, too.

 

Anyway, I'd thought I'd update to keep myself accountable, and because I know it's not over yet.

[Girlfromcali]

I am happy for you Chuff...but girl, you know what I'm going to say about being friends

 

My fMM was not a cheater either, and his therapist had hard time believing that he had never cheated before me. The therapist kept asking "mr. so and so, are you sure you've never cheated before this. Are you being honest?". He was like "yeah"...but that's just makes one feel more special, no? At least it made me feel special that I was the one! I'm not proud about that but sometimes I wish he had been a serial cheater so I could really let him go.

 

Something happened a while back, where I learned "accidentally" something about him through a third party that made me think had done something "horrible". My immediate feeling was that I can't even be friends with him anymore. (Yay, I can let him go finally!) It took me to a very emotional place. Then I learned that those things I thought were bad, were actually done because he cared about me. I was like "damn, here we go again, I can't hate him again".

 

I know I'm not making much sense but what I'm trying to say that even when he doesn't say anything emotional, there have been at three occasions where I have learned through other venues that he cares about me. That's why I have gone total NC. Also, the closure cannot come from him. I can't beg him to tell me he doesn't love me and wish to get closure that way. I have learned that the hard way too..

 

I'm just trying to protect you <3

[Chuff]

I am happy for you Chuff...but girl, you know what I'm going to say about being friends

 

My fMM was not a cheater either, and his therapist had hard time believing that he had never cheated before me. The therapist kept asking "mr. so and so, are you sure you've never cheated before this. Are you being honest?". He was like "yeah"...but that's just makes one feel more special, no? At least it made me feel special that I was the one! I'm not proud about that but sometimes I wish he had been a serial cheater so I could really let him go.

 

Something happened a while back, where I learned "accidentally" something about him through a third party that made me think had done something "horrible". My immediate feeling was that I can't even be friends with him anymore. (Yay, I can let him go finally!) It took me to a very emotional place. Then I learned that those things I thought were bad, were actually done because he cared about me. I was like "damn, here we go again, I can't hate him again".

 

I know I'm not making much sense but what I'm trying to say that even when he doesn't say anything emotional, there have been at three occasions where I have learned through other venues that he cares about me. That's why I have gone total NC. Also, the closure cannot come from him. I can't beg him to tell me he doesn't love me and wish to get closure that way. I have learned that the hard way too..

 

I'm just trying to protect you <3

 

 

Thank you. I may not think I need it now, but I know I will down the road. This forum has taught me something about A patterns.

 

You're right. Total NC will have to come from me but without changing my email address, which, right now, is disrupting too much of my life with all the other fallout from stuff going on.

 

At some point, I know I won't have any desire to respond to any of his emails. Until then, I'll be here, seeking the support that I've received, to take the next step.

 

xoxo GFC!!!

[Girlfromcali]

Ha ha..well I haven't blocked him either. I'm kinda waiting for my weekly "how are you" -message. I feel the same way you do...I am naturally drifting away from him.

[Chuff]

I wasn't feeling well yesterday and stayed home in bed all day reading stories on this forum. And something clicked last night. If I really want to live an "authentic" life (sorry for the overused buzzword), I really can't have any contact - at all - with MM. Because I know he's lying to his wife about still being in contact with me. Although she doesn't know we kissed, at some level I think she does. But she has too much to lose by letting herself believe her gut.

 

And, really, what's the point of responding, even in a benign manner, to his casual emails? How can I accuse him of being a coward when I'm also acting like a coward but not having the balls (or bits) to just go dark. If I really don't G.A.F. like I say I don't, then...why bother?

 

I know everyone tries to hammer this into our brains- that there is no such thing as being "just friends", but...unless you're ready, AND emotionally strong enough to withstand the mind-f*cks trying to pull you back into contact, it's nearly impossible to do consistently.

 

I don't know if I'm emotionally strong enough, but I don't want to think of myself as being a coward anymore. I do know that when I got his last email saying, "I've seen a side of you that I've never seen before," this time I laughed. He wrote that because I stopped responding.

 

No, I'm still not changing my email address.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Chuff
Clarification

[Girlfromcali]

One thing I've been thinking about lately, besides authenticity (although they are about the same), is personal autonomy. It includes that the person feels his or her own center of Gravity when it comes to our own moral weight more and the moral weight of others less. Our opinions, values, thoughts, and feelings are relatively stable in the face of opposing opinions etc. And it is about self respect.

 

Why I'm bringing this up? Well, because sometimes in the affair fog we lose it, and worry about the AP, and is he going to love me if I do this or that.

In your case him manipulating you by the message saying he's seen a side of you..I mean he's trying see if you still care etc.

 

That's why I was laughing about the fact that I sent my fMM the text that actual friends could say to one another, but not lovers. I didn't try to manipulate, I was just being "me" and I know if I wanted him still I wouldn't have said it. I don't need his approval.

I'm not saying that I'd intentionally be mean (because that would also be trying to get a reaction) but just that I am being myself and not some insecure girl that's worried she's not going to be loved if she misbehaves.

 

That's personal autonomy and I'm working on it.

[Chuff]

One thing I've been thinking about lately, besides authenticity (although they are about the same), is personal autonomy. It includes that the person feels his or her own center of Gravity when it comes to our own moral weight more and the moral weight of others less. Our opinions, values, thoughts, and feelings are relatively stable in the face of opposing opinions etc. And it is about self respect.

 

Why I'm bringing this up? Well, because sometimes in the affair fog we lose it, and worry about the AP, and is he going to love me if I do this or that.

In your case him manipulating you by the message saying he's seen a side of you..I mean he's trying see if you still care etc.

 

That's why I was laughing about the fact that I sent my fMM the text that actual friends could say to one another, but not lovers. I didn't try to manipulate, I was just being "me" and I know if I wanted him still I wouldn't have said it. I don't need his approval.

I'm not saying that I'd intentionally be mean (because that would also be trying to get a reaction) but just that I am being myself and not some insecure girl that's worried she's not going to be loved if she misbehaves.

 

That's personal autonomy and I'm working on it.

 

Yes to this! Good stuff here!

 

You know, I was so proud of myself for having the courage to ask my H for a divorce, even though we had a pretty decent marriage with never any dishonesty. It's only because of this we are, indeed, good friends now.

 

But then I entered an EA/PA because for the first time in many years, I felt passion again.

 

How f*cking selfish of me...of him. I can only control my actions from here on out, and I don't want to give this...or him...any more head space than I already have. No amount of illicit passion is worth my personal autonomy. Because this is not where I want to be in 5 years, 10 years, or heck - 2 months from now!

[bewell]

I haven't read the other pages in this thread, just your original post. I hope that you are staying strong and maintaining NC. I am on the same boat as you. One month NC on the 9th. But...caveat...I broke it on the 28th and sent him ONE last text telling him that I know he moved back home and that I've known so don't make me an idiot. Looking back, I shouldn't have done that but I had to because this ******* plays games. He's hoping I don't find out he moved back home with his W and with time he can still talk to me on the side and continue the A. No F-ing way! He is ****ting in his pants trying to figure out how I found out he moved back home (I did some detective work on my own) because we don't have mutual friends or have any social media ties.

[Girlfromcali]

I just wanted to say something about passion. When I fell in love with MM, it was the same feeling I had twenty years ago when I met my H. (Well, except this was a little bit more intense and crazier, and I didn't know then that it was because it was an A ).

All I knew was that I knew the feeling, it must be love.

But the passion..that was something out of this world. How could anyone resist that? One can say that one should not act on it since bad and bla bla...but hey, books have been written about it and movies made about it since forever, and it is very human. We are not robots and only logical perfect beings.

[Chuff]

After his email 2 nights ago trying to yank my chain - "I have seen another side of you that I never have"...and me ignoring it, last night I got 3 more emails in my spam box, which I check right before I go to bed. 2 were nature pictures and the last was a YouTube video (here we go again! lol) of Hall & Oates "Your Kiss is on my List."

 

I laughed and moved it to another inbox. I'm saving all of his emails just in case...but I don't go back and read them.

 

He's actually becoming a little pathetic to me. But I will need to keep strong. It's always easiest, for me, the first couple of days.

 

He'll tire of it eventually, but ONLY if I never respond.

 

No, I'm not changing my email address. lol

[lemondrop21]

I laughed and moved it to another inbox. I'm saving all of his emails just in case...but I don't go back and read them.

 

Just in case... you need to use them as evidence? Or what? Just curious.

[Chuff]

Just in case... you need to use them as evidence? Or what? Just curious.

 

In case his wife opens her eyes, listens to her gut, and needs/wants proof.

 

We used to be friends, until I ruined that.

 

I would NEVER tell her anything on my own...but if she came to me, I wouldn't lie to her. That's the very least I can do.

[Chuff]

You know when no contact is the hardest?

 

It's when it's been a week of silence and then something happens in your personal life, unrelated to the A, and the only person who knows the back story is your AP. Because pre-A you were actual friends, along with his wife. You were all good friends.

 

And all you want is a little understanding without having to explain yourself...but... you know that the AP would say all the right words and then BOOM, you're back in an EA.

 

They're just words. It took so long for me to see that there was nothing ever to back up his words. And yet, I clung to those words for months believing that they were enough.

 

They're not enough anymore.

 

But it's still hard. Very hard. And tonight I'm mourning loss - so many losses, not just the AP.

 

Thanks for reading.

[stilltrying16]

sorry, honey. You're one of the bravest people I've seen on this site. Hang in there. ((((((((((Chuff)))))))))

[Chuff]

sorry, honey. You're one of the bravest people I've seen on this site. Hang in there. ((((((((((Chuff)))))))))

 

That made me cry, Still. Thank you. But I promise you, I'm not brave. I'm just tired. lol

 

[Grapesofwrath]

That made me cry, Still. Thank you. But I promise you, I'm not brave. I'm just tired. lol

 

 

Chuff: How are you feeling in the light of day? You are doing so beautifully with all of this. You have your eyes wide open and you are showing up for yourself in the best possible way. It was wise and brilliant of you to see the situation for what it is, before you set yourself back.

 

I am proud of you. We are all proud of you. Keep going. You're doing great. Moments of weakness are part of the process. (Yes, I have them. I will remember something sweet that the xMM did for me, some help he provided, some kindness he performed. It takes a minute, and then I remember all the other stuff and I keep moving forward.)

 

Big hug, Chuff.