Thanks to This Forum, Day 1 of NC.

[Chuff]

I'm doing okay. Probably better than okay, but I don't want to get too excited...not yet. lol

 

I had an amazingly healing weekend with a new friend/kindred spirit who is going through the exact same situation with an AP as I am. We actually were able to laugh at the exact same lines these guys said to us. It's like there was a script they both followed.

 

She brought up an interesting point that was judgment free. She said that the only reason why I'm saving his emails (even though they're moved to a file labeled "douche") is because I want to be able to prove (to whom? myself? his wife?) that I wasn't the instigator of the A. And she challenged me to delete them all.

 

Also, there is a way to set up a filter in gmail so that incoming emails from a labeled address can be deleted automatically.

 

I'm not there yet, but I'm getting there.

[Poppy47]

He won't. He's a coward. And he's too comfortable. I truly believe he thinks he loves me, but what he really loves is the way I make him feel.

Would you want him?

 

I would never want xMM.

No fundamental level of trust in him at all.

 

Poppy

[Chuff]

Would you want him?

 

I would never want xMM.

No fundamental level of trust in him at all.

 

Poppy

 

Nope. At least I would hope I wouldn't. For better or worse, it will never be a decision I'll ever have to make.

 

My friend from this weekend told me to get a book on narcissist personalities. It seems that narcissism is a common denominator in AP's,especially in MM.

[Cherryz]

If you read all the other storys about affairs, you will see

none is much different from the other.

 

And i think once you more relaxed and all this is kind of over you may see that there

is always signs!

Or a moment of warning for us to step out.

Rather you ddnt notice that you was falling for him, at a very early point you did realize and see that you are and should back off of it.

 

But ddnt. So did he.

At the end affairs are never something good or healthy and the married person would

never leave his/her partner. Affair is all about lust, using the other for what you not getting at home, and release some stress.

And often they come with silly sad self pity story's about how sad and bad it is in their marriage. So they can play on your care feelings and manipulate you into affairs.

 

This guy is a true manipulator and cheaters,smoottalker.

Hes texting you exactly the rigth things to touch certain feelings in you.

It should make you mad. Hes all about the "affair game".

 

Im glad you took steps to stop him from using you for his needs.

And maybe you can google or on youtube see how to block people on your gmail.

So you dont have to even see his stuff and heal faster.

 

I think once you realize your value as a woman. And your self esteem grows, you

will see more what kind of waste of time a affair is.

I hope once you ready you find a single man and be happy.

[Girlfromcali]

Nope. At least I would hope I wouldn't. For better or worse, it will never be a decision I'll ever have to make.

 

My friend from this weekend told me to get a book on narcissist personalities. It seems that narcissism is a common denominator in AP's,especially in MM.

 

I think so too. I know my MM is. It's funny but I remember little things after I read here..like I had been dealing with the break up, suffered, gone through hell, trying to figure out what happened..then when I finally tried to explain it to him, and was trying to make him understand how painful the whole thing was etc..and I mistakenly in my rant said something like "do you have any idea what it feels like to be in love with someone you can't have"...and he responded happily "I love the fact that you're in love with me". It's sickening narcissism and inability to have any empathy. Every time he says he loves me, it is always connected to something what I do for him, like, "I love you because you truly understand me" for example. It's never "I love you just because you're you". Never ever..

[lemondrop21]

I think so too. I know my MM is. It's funny but I remember little things after I read here..like I had been dealing with the break up, suffered, gone through hell, trying to figure out what happened..then when I finally tried to explain it to him, and was trying to make him understand how painful the whole thing was etc..and I mistakenly in my rant said something like "do you have any idea what it feels like to be in love with someone you can't have"...and he responded happily "I love the fact that you're in love with me". It's sickening narcissism and inability to have any empathy. Every time he says he loves me, it is always connected to something what I do for him, like, "I love you because you truly understand me" for example. It's never "I love you just because you're you". Never ever..

 

Wow. Just wow. You should make a poster with that slogan and put it on your wall or something. If that's too obvious (like if you share a house) maybe just a post-it someplace where you'll see it all the time. That phrase alone should help you tremendously in terms of warding off sentimental feelings!

[lemondrop21]

I'm doing okay. Probably better than okay, but I don't want to get too excited...not yet. lol

 

I had an amazingly healing weekend with a new friend/kindred spirit who is going through the exact same situation with an AP as I am. We actually were able to laugh at the exact same lines these guys said to us. It's like there was a script they both followed.

 

She brought up an interesting point that was judgment free. She said that the only reason why I'm saving his emails (even though they're moved to a file labeled "douche") is because I want to be able to prove (to whom? myself? his wife?) that I wasn't the instigator of the A. And she challenged me to delete them all.

 

Also, there is a way to set up a filter in gmail so that incoming emails from a labeled address can be deleted automatically.

 

I'm not there yet, but I'm getting there.

 

I actually do think it makes sense for you to save the emails in case you need some kind of proof. Yes it's a cynical view to take, but I think with these things, you have to be cynical.

[Girlfromcali]

Wow. Just wow. You should make a poster with that slogan and put it on your wall or something. If that's too obvious (like if you share a house) maybe just a post-it someplace where you'll see it all the time. That phrase alone should help you tremendously in terms of warding off sentimental feelings!

 

Actually I thought earlier that I would read the stories here for an hour every time I have a sentimental feeling or want to reach out to him.

I only want to contact him when I'm feeling happy, it's like a drug addict who is clean and think she can handle a little dose of the drug.

I have to adopt a more strict policy, like AA where you admit you're powerless. This place is like that with its strict NC rules.

 

He is always the same, there's no element of surprise there. He will always say the same things, I know him by now.

 

It was funny but I wrote him a message the other day. It was a lot things that what is said here about the dynamics of affairs etc. I didn't expect him to answer it, obviously..it wasn't about him. I KNOW the closure will never come from him, no matter what he does or doesn't do. The closure comes from me, and if I feel like writing him, I will. So, he only sent me a message saying he received it, and a few days later he called. I didn't pick up nor do I have any interest in knowing what he thinks about my message. He is predictable so why would I care?

 

I am changing and moving forward, and soon I will be bored. I mean that I won't answer not because it's painful, but because it bores me.

[Chuff]

Well, the good news is that I'm over the xMM. We've had no contact for almost 3 months, and I don't think about him every day or miss him, or, more importantly, shed anymore tears over the EA.

 

I was set up on a blind date 3 mths ago by a good friend whose opinion I greatly value. She described the guy as a straight shooter, no drama, divorced 7 years ago with no kids, loves his parents and family, and a hard worker. Great. I'm game!

 

We dated for maybe 10? 11 weeks, taking things slooooow, and I'm scratching my head over many things, mostly about why WHY I ignored so many red flags!

 

I don't know exactly what I'm looking for here - maybe a little perspective or insight as to wtf was I thinking? I know there are some very wise people on LS that could help me out. I'll try to keep things brief so as to not bore people and will fill in the details if anyone asks.

 

I've never really "dated" per se (I'm 50 and amicably separated from my husband, no kids, staying technically married for a few more months until we can get insurance sorted out, still good friends...). All of my past relationships have come about organically - meeting in common social circles and being friends first.

 

I'm also very inexperienced sexually - waited until I was in my 30s, and never really explored that side of me even in my marriage. The last 4 years of our 9 year relationship were spent in separate bedrooms. This is one of the many reasons why I asked for a divorce - lack of intimacy. I still have a few good years left.

 

So...now about my now ex bf:

 

He lives with his his sister and her family in their parent's home and acts as the caretaker. It's a large farm. Parents relocated to NC. His day job is construction.

 

He's a hard drinker after work and on the weekends. He also smokes. And chews. And does weed. I only knew about the cigs and drinking until recently because we only saw each other 2x a week at the most. He's also addicted to porn.

 

He never was affectionate with me - a quick hug and kiss at hello and at the end of our date. No hand holding, no cuddling, no touching UNLESS he had been drinking.

 

I didn't sleep with him until the 2 month mark, and that night he was extremely affectionate and loving and said all the right things (called me his baby, etc.) and I was butter in his hands. But because he had been drinking a lot, sex couldn't happen then. Turns out he had been drinking all day and had to call in sick the next morning because of his killer hangover. We ended up going out to lunch and then back to my place where we finally slept together. But this time, because he was sober, there was no touching or affection or foreplay. 30 seconds and it was done and then he rolled over and fell asleep with his back to me. My first time in over 4 years and that was it? To say I was a little disappointed is an understatement.

 

I got out of bed and went downstairs. He came down 15 minutes later, gave me a quick hug and peck and left. That's it.

 

And then I didn't hear from him for the next 3-4 days other than a text here and there. Friday he gets off early and wants to meet me for lunch. There, I try and talk to him about how alone I felt after sex and that I need affection in addition to the actual act. He tells me I weirded him out by going downstairs. huh?

 

I let it go because I was leaving that weekend for a few weeks out of town for work.

 

While I'm out of town, he sends me the most beautiful flowers I've ever seen. The card said something like "Stalker Skills- Jedi Level".

 

He came down to visit me over MEmorial Day weekend, and while we had fun hanging out with my friends, our 2nd sexual encounter didn't go very well either. We had been kissing in bed for maybe 15 seconds (we'd both had alcohol that evening) and then he rolled me onto my stomach. I thought I was getting a back rub. lol Nope - He climbed on top of me to go doggie style. Because there had been zero foreplay, it was extremely painful and I cried out to stop. He was very apologetic and kissing my hands, while I was in tears. And that was that.

 

Our last night he went outside to smoke some weed, unbeknownst to me. I smelled it right away and his eyes were glassy. He then said to me, "I want to get you high so badly. You'd be so much fun!" Ugh. I went to bed early leaving him downstairs to watch tv. The next morning he got up early to drive home and I got a quick hug and peck on the lips.

 

That next week we barely communicated and I started getting suspicious. I knew he had had done online dating in the past, so I went on POF and voila. There was his dating profile with a "last logged in" time of that morning. I immediately deleted and blocked him on social media. He didn't even notice.

 

The next day I got a text saying that I was unsympathetic about his dog's surgery (he had posted about it on FB, but I didn't see because I had blocked him) and to "do us a favor and burn my number."

 

I responded with "I hope you find that honest and fun woman you're still looking for" (The title of his POF profile) but he didn't catch on and merely said, "Back at ya."

 

The next day I foolishly texted him telling him I had found his POF profile and that I was angry and hurt and had blocked him which was why I didn't see anything about his dog. He replied with several more "reasons" to end things, one of which was that I wasn't able to give him the

"sensual/sexual attention he craved."

 

I replied that I was trying my best, I was in therapy, and that I wished he had been honest with me about wanting to date other women. His reply? "." A dot. According to Google it means, "I have read what you wrote and have nothing to say." By the way, he's 45.

 

As much as I HATE to admit it, I miss him. Parts of him. Unfortunately, the parts when he was drunk. lol Sad, I know. But what I hate the most is that I'm blaming myself...a little. I just don't understand what went on or why I stayed dating him. I think part of it is that he got such a huge stamp of approval from our friend, but she also hadn't been in contact with him for a couple of years before setting us up.

 

What I do know: It's too soon for me to start dating again, and right now I need to focus on my own happiness and surrounding myself with people who build me up and are positive influences and who want the best for me.

 

Thanks for letting me vent. I got over my ex EAP, I'll get over this one too.

[immokk]

I think so too. I know my MM is. It's funny but I remember little things after I read here..like I had been dealing with the break up, suffered, gone through hell, trying to figure out what happened..then when I finally tried to explain it to him, and was trying to make him understand how painful the whole thing was etc..and I mistakenly in my rant said something like "do you have any idea what it feels like to be in love with someone you can't have"...and he responded happily "I love the fact that you're in love with me". It's sickening narcissism and inability to have any empathy. Every time he says he loves me, it is always connected to something what I do for him, like, "I love you because you truly understand me" for example. It's never "I love you just because you're you". Never ever..

 

This actually turns my stomach.

 

Sheesh what a guy...

[immokk]

Well, the good news is that I'm over the xMM. We've had no contact for almost 3 months, and I don't think about him every day or miss him, or, more importantly, shed anymore tears over the EA.

 

I was set up on a blind date 3 mths ago by a good friend whose opinion I greatly value. She described the guy as a straight shooter, no drama, divorced 7 years ago with no kids, loves his parents and family, and a hard worker. Great. I'm game!

 

We dated for maybe 10? 11 weeks, taking things slooooow, and I'm scratching my head over many things, mostly about why WHY I ignored so many red flags!

 

I don't know exactly what I'm looking for here - maybe a little perspective or insight as to wtf was I thinking? I know there are some very wise people on LS that could help me out. I'll try to keep things brief so as to not bore people and will fill in the details if anyone asks.

 

I've never really "dated" per se (I'm 50 and amicably separated from my husband, no kids, staying technically married for a few more months until we can get insurance sorted out, still good friends...). All of my past relationships have come about organically - meeting in common social circles and being friends first.

 

I'm also very inexperienced sexually - waited until I was in my 30s, and never really explored that side of me even in my marriage. The last 4 years of our 9 year relationship were spent in separate bedrooms. This is one of the many reasons why I asked for a divorce - lack of intimacy. I still have a few good years left.

 

So...now about my now ex bf:

 

He lives with his his sister and her family in their parent's home and acts as the caretaker. It's a large farm. Parents relocated to NC. His day job is construction.

 

He's a hard drinker after work and on the weekends. He also smokes. And chews. And does weed. I only knew about the cigs and drinking until recently because we only saw each other 2x a week at the most. He's also addicted to porn.

 

He never was affectionate with me - a quick hug and kiss at hello and at the end of our date. No hand holding, no cuddling, no touching UNLESS he had been drinking.

 

I didn't sleep with him until the 2 month mark, and that night he was extremely affectionate and loving and said all the right things (called me his baby, etc.) and I was butter in his hands. But because he had been drinking a lot, sex couldn't happen then. Turns out he had been drinking all day and had to call in sick the next morning because of his killer hangover. We ended up going out to lunch and then back to my place where we finally slept together. But this time, because he was sober, there was no touching or affection or foreplay. 30 seconds and it was done and then he rolled over and fell asleep with his back to me. My first time in over 4 years and that was it? To say I was a little disappointed is an understatement.

 

I got out of bed and went downstairs. He came down 15 minutes later, gave me a quick hug and peck and left. That's it.

 

And then I didn't hear from him for the next 3-4 days other than a text here and there. Friday he gets off early and wants to meet me for lunch. There, I try and talk to him about how alone I felt after sex and that I need affection in addition to the actual act. He tells me I weirded him out by going downstairs. huh?

 

I let it go because I was leaving that weekend for a few weeks out of town for work.

 

While I'm out of town, he sends me the most beautiful flowers I've ever seen. The card said something like "Stalker Skills- Jedi Level".

 

He came down to visit me over MEmorial Day weekend, and while we had fun hanging out with my friends, our 2nd sexual encounter didn't go very well either. We had been kissing in bed for maybe 15 seconds (we'd both had alcohol that evening) and then he rolled me onto my stomach. I thought I was getting a back rub. lol Nope - He climbed on top of me to go doggie style. Because there had been zero foreplay, it was extremely painful and I cried out to stop. He was very apologetic and kissing my hands, while I was in tears. And that was that.

 

Our last night he went outside to smoke some weed, unbeknownst to me. I smelled it right away and his eyes were glassy. He then said to me, "I want to get you high so badly. You'd be so much fun!" Ugh. I went to bed early leaving him downstairs to watch tv. The next morning he got up early to drive home and I got a quick hug and peck on the lips.

 

That next week we barely communicated and I started getting suspicious. I knew he had had done online dating in the past, so I went on POF and voila. There was his dating profile with a "last logged in" time of that morning. I immediately deleted and blocked him on social media. He didn't even notice.

 

The next day I got a text saying that I was unsympathetic about his dog's surgery (he had posted about it on FB, but I didn't see because I had blocked him) and to "do us a favor and burn my number."

 

I responded with "I hope you find that honest and fun woman you're still looking for" (The title of his POF profile) but he didn't catch on and merely said, "Back at ya."

 

The next day I foolishly texted him telling him I had found his POF profile and that I was angry and hurt and had blocked him which was why I didn't see anything about his dog. He replied with several more "reasons" to end things, one of which was that I wasn't able to give him the

"sensual/sexual attention he craved."

 

I replied that I was trying my best, I was in therapy, and that I wished he had been honest with me about wanting to date other women. His reply? "." A dot. According to Google it means, "I have read what you wrote and have nothing to say." By the way, he's 45.

 

As much as I HATE to admit it, I miss him. Parts of him. Unfortunately, the parts when he was drunk. lol Sad, I know. But what I hate the most is that I'm blaming myself...a little. I just don't understand what went on or why I stayed dating him. I think part of it is that he got such a huge stamp of approval from our friend, but she also hadn't been in contact with him for a couple of years before setting us up.

 

What I do know: It's too soon for me to start dating again, and right now I need to focus on my own happiness and surrounding myself with people who build me up and are positive influences and who want the best for me.

 

Thanks for letting me vent. I got over my ex EAP, I'll get over this one too.

 

I'm hoping that this doesn't sound trite, it really isn't meant to, but you need to be friends with yourself. It's something I really struggle with and feel so emotionally drained from my A (and have for months, even when it was on going) that I can't imagine trusting another guy, being in a relationship.

 

Dating, casually, going out and meeting people is one thing and I wouldn't necessarily discourage it but relationships are not what you need 3 months after feeling so hurt.

 

I think when we make decisions when we're still wounded, we make bad ones. I'm actively trying to not make any.

 

I wish you all the best and hope you can find some solace on here, as you clearly did before.

[Chuff]

 

Dating, casually, going out and meeting people is one thing and I wouldn't necessarily discourage it but relationships are not what you need 3 months after feeling so hurt.

 

I think when we make decisions when we're still wounded, we make bad ones. I'm actively trying to not make any.

 

I wish you all the best and hope you can find some solace on here, as you clearly did before.

 

Agreed. Thanks, immokk

[Oran]

Hi Chuff

 

I read your latest post and thought that some of the info I've been looking at might be useful to you? It's work by a guy called Ross Rosenburg who looks at narcissism and codependency. I've been finding his work useful, maybe there are some parallels for you too? Anyway, this is the link,

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/clinicalcareconsult

[Chuff]

Thank you, Oran.

 

Watching him now.

 

I re-read what I wrote earlier and am cringing at my words. I spent a good part of my teens and 20s in codependent relationships and Melody Beattie's book was my bible.

[Oran]

Thank you, Oran.

 

Watching him now.

 

I re-read what I wrote earlier and am cringing at my words. I spent a good part of my teens and 20s in codependent relationships and Melody Beattie's book was my bible.

 

Oh, a new lead, I'll have to check that out, thanks

[Lobe]

As much as I HATE to admit it, I miss him. Parts of him. Unfortunately, the parts when he was drunk. lol Sad, I know. But what I hate the most is that I'm blaming myself...a little. I just don't understand what went on or why I stayed dating him. I think part of it is that he got such a huge stamp of approval from our friend, but she also hadn't been in contact with him for a couple of years before setting us up.

 

It seems like men get too much credit for compartmentalizing and women get not enough lol.

 

I read your backstory and I'm exhausted for you. And proud. But exhausted. You need a rest, girl!

 

Rebound relationships/surrogate lovers/temps/transitions - whatever you prefer - are a way of smoothing out the rough edges of your emotional tears. I think the reason they ultimately end up being a bad idea is because they in fact stall your healing by numbing the pain instead of helping to repair the cuts. The funny thing is, your MM was likely a rebound from your failed marriage which, no matter how amicable, is still a failed marriage.

 

I'm not a therapist and I am not claiming to be an expert but I do think there are dating patterns that alert us to where our head is at. If I read it correctly, you started dating MM a few days after asking for a D, started dating 3 days after NC with MM, then got into a 3-month long relationship. I feel like maybe you need some down-time!

 

I think you've done some reading on co-dependency already an I think that's a good place to start looking for clues that will help you break the pattern of diving from one relationship into another without stopping to catch your breath. I have always hated the idea of finding "my other half" because it implies I am "incomplete" without a partner. This idea is so prevalent in Western culture we have different names and implications - a single man is a gigolo, a suave drifter who loves 'em and leaves 'em, whereas a woman is called a "spinster" and is thought to have something "wrong" with her that she hasn't trapped a keeper yet. It's entirely possible that this is how you ended up married in the first place to someone who was (and is), according to you, a better platonic than romantic match.

 

The shift needs to go from being taught we need someone who "completes" us to someone who makes us "twice as awesome" and the first step is becoming a whole person. I'm a BS and after I discovered WH's infidelity, the first thing everyone and every book and every website (and every page on LS) told me was to take care of ME. Even if my husband did nothing to fix himself, whether the marriage would reconcile or not, I needed to ensure I looked after my own recovery, first and foremost. And you know what? It's true. As my marriage crumbled and my family fell apart and my career started tanking, I invested huge pieces of myself in everyone else, thinking that was the best thing to do, strive to make everyone else happy, be the martyr. Eventually I had nothing left for me and I felt too weak and worthless to pull myself back together, and hubby went off and had an affair.

 

D-day was a HUGE wake-up call for me, because I couldn't function without pulling myself back together. When WH said he was leaving, suddenly I had to remember what it was like being single. I had no choice but to get a grip and make myself "whole" again. The skill I am still mastering now is avoiding old habits when I feel like I'm falling apart. If someone had told me 2 years ago that the way to save my marriage would be to be self-sufficient I would have questioned their logic. Depending on yourself is empowering and (in my case) reminded WH why he had married me in the first place.

 

Go do you. On your own. Fabulously independent. Not only will you like yourself better, but you'll probably find it less necessary to compartmentalize or overlook the negative attributes of your suiters, because you'll be a whole person who doesn't want or need half a man.

 

(There are studies showing that autonomy and the confidence that comes from being independent is a bigger key to happiness than wealth. Basically, as long as you feel you sense that you have a reasonable amount of control or power over your life, you are happier than having $$$. Here's Boer on this topic here if you're curious.)

[Chuff]

My responses are NOT in quotes - I couldn't figure out how to distinguish my replies from the original post.

 

 

"I read your backstory and I'm exhausted for you. And proud. But exhausted. You need a rest, girl!"

 

LOL! I'm exhausted too!

 

"Rebound relationships/surrogate lovers/temps/transitions - whatever you prefer - are a way of smoothing out the rough edges of your emotional tears."

 

So very true. My therapist once told me that the best way to get over a man (in my case, the MM) was to get under one.

 

 

"I think the reason they ultimately end up being a bad idea is because they in fact stall your healing by numbing the pain instead of helping to repair the cuts. The funny thing is, your MM was likely a rebound from your failed marriage which, no matter how amicable, is still a failed marriage."

 

Also true. We haven't even gotten to talking about my failed marriage in counseling because I sought therapy when I was in so much pain over my MM. I never mourned nor grieved my marriage because we had been stagnant for years, even though we still loved each other. But, sometimes, love isn't enough.

 

"I feel like maybe you need some down-time!"

 

The time is now!

 

"It's entirely possible that this is how you ended up married in the first place to someone who was (and is), according to you, a better platonic than romantic match."

 

I'll have to think about this for awhile. When I married him, I was 40 and very independent - financially, emotionally...I had ended 2 previous engagements in my 30s where the thought of forever with them scared me. But I do need to figure out why I married someone I loved but wasn't "in love" with. He's a good man, though, and I am glad I married him. We are both better people for having been married to each other. But I do need to bring this up in counseling soon.

 

"Go do you. On your own. Fabulously independent. Not only will you like yourself better, but you'll probably find it less necessary to compartmentalize or overlook the negative attributes of your suiters, because you'll be a whole person who doesn't want or need half a man. ;)"

 

I am, but I will do more of this. I have a fantastic new FBC (family by choice) that I found? was lead to? Whatever...and we share the same interests and hobbies, and I'm spending more time with them.

 

"(There are studies showing that autonomy and the confidence that comes from being independent is a bigger key to happiness than wealth. Basically, as long as you feel you sense that you have a reasonable amount of control or power over your life, you are happier than having $$$. Here's Boer on this topic here if you're curious.)"

 

Thank you for taking the time to write a very thoughtful and gentle reply to my crazy update. The me I know IS fabulous and independent and loved. My next update will be completely different...I promise you.

Edited June 16, 2016 by Chuff
Formatting fail

[immokk]

You're going to be fine Chuff...

 

I guess we all are