Is he in denial?

[floridamom]

After spending my lunch hour browsing and tearing up through many of the topics listed on the forum I decided to register and hopefully find some insight from someone who has been on either end of the situation I’m currently in.

I recently celebrated my 13th wedding anniversary. I am 33 years old and have two children with my husband (boy & girl 12 and 9).

I met my husband when I was 19, married him months after meeting, had our first child months after being married. I also moved from my hometown in order to start a family with him.

My husband has always taken the initiative for pretty much everything. I am very go with the flow. Along with him taking the initiative he has also been controlling. Mainly my fault for allowing him to control everything.

Without writing a novel, I have come to terms with the fact that I am no longer happy in my marriage. Besides being a victim of verbal abuse which took many years for me to acknowledge I was a victim of I have fallen out of love. I’ve consistently been called every name in the book, in front of my children and with no children present. There’s always an apology after however it happens again and again and again. I am to blame for all wrong doings… late bills, leaky toilets, you name it. I am also suffocated to no end. Car is tracked, 10+ calls a day on the cell if not he calls me at work. At home I am followed by him. Especially since telling him I want a divorce. If I shower, he’s in the bathroom, if I’m washing dishes- he’s right behind me. Then he wonders why I need space.

I don’t believe I’m miserable. I am passed that stage.

Since bringing up the fact that I want a divorce I sense an extreme stage of denial. I have been honest with him about how I feel, my lack of love for him, how I feel suffocated, how I’m tired of being the scapegoat. I have explained how holding back how I feel for so many years has caused resentment within me. He says that he can tell that I’m angry however by proving himself that I will get over it. That morally speaking, divorce is not an option. He tells me to read the bible- preferably the new testament.

He basically harasses me for sex every single morning. Every single morning is a fight because I tell him there are so many things wrong with the marriage for me to freely dive into having sex. He tells me he “needs it” and that I “can’t do this to him”. I’m late to work every morning because we fight about the same exact thing.

The denial kicks in because whenever I bring up me wanting to divorce I get the same reaction. The reaction is as if it’s the first time I’ve ever brought it up. Our anniversary was this week and he booked a hotel room for us “to spend time” aka have sex. The night was terrible. He kept repeating that I had to. Dinner, hotel and lingerie. I feel objectified.

He carries on every day as if it’s a new day, a fresh start and that our marriage is not in bad shape. Everyday I live in misery because he expects affection, sex, happiness and harmony.

Living like this is taking a toll on me emotionally, physically and mentally. Not to mention my children who unfortunately have to witness an upset dad when he doesn’t get his way or a miserable mother who unwillingly goes along with things to “keep the peace”.

I want to know if anyone thinks this is normal? Am I expected to have sex even though I have emotionally checked out? Is it okay to say no as I have been? Will he ever get over the denial or am I going to have to take the step in ending things as I have been threatening. I’m petrified of so many things.

Miserable in Florida…

Thank you for reading.

[Mundo]

Hi Floridamom, I am currently going through a divorce myself. My STBXW said she is unhappy and wants a divorce. Its hard to come to terms with but when one person is done and doesnt want or feels that no longer can work on it then its over.

 

You have no obligation to have sex with him. Marriage does not entitle you to give/get sex. He should understand thatbit is not in the cards now and shouldnt force himself on you.

 

The verbal and sexual abuse are enough for you to get restraining orders and get him out of tthe house. If not for you then the kids.

 

Get a laywer ASAP and file, if not for divoce the for legal seperation and to get him out of the house.

[floridamom]

I believe I am going to have to move forward with hiring an attorney. As weird as this may sound I actually cling to the hope that he will come to terms with what's happening and perhaps man up to what's happening between us as opposed to being so concerned with his sexual needs which seem to be priority right now (at least it comes off that way).

 

Just hoping to find the courage to make this happen as this is no way to live.

 

I greatly appreciate you taking the time to respond. I'm sorry to read that you're currently going through a divorce and I wish you the very best of luck and much happiness in the road ahead of you.

[Methodical]

Verbal abuse, placing blame on your shoulders for every problem, harassment...your children see and hear this. This is not a healthy, viable relationship, for any of you. Don't think he is going to come to terms with anything. As long as you do nothing different, he will continue as he has. There is no motive for change. Sorry you are going thru this. Say nothing more to him about your plan and retain an attorney asap.

[floridamom]

Thank you kindly for your feedback. I also feel as if there will be no change. Perhaps temporary but not long term and I'll be back in the same crap all over again.

[Satu]

The time for talking is past.

 

File for divorce.

 

Now.

[Mr. Lucky]

Will he ever get over the denial or am I going to have to take the step in ending things as I have been threatening. I’m petrified of so many things.

Miserable in Florida…

Thank you for reading.

 

I'm confused by this - how are his denial and your need to take steps related? Even if he were entirely on board with divorce, the process for you would be no different - see an attorney, tell your story and follow his/her advice.

 

Your husband only has the power over you that you grant him. If he's physically assaulting you, sexually or otherwise, call the police. Otherwise, no need to give in to whining, begging or unreasonable demands. To protect your kids and secure a fair future for yourself, you'll need to stand up for your rights and establish boundaries.

 

Why not start today ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[floridamom]

Mr. Lucky,

 

I suppose you're right. I guess my original question regarding the denial is more for my mental stability because as much as I've reiterated how I feel and where we stand it's pretty much the equivalent to having a conversation with a brick wall. He's not getting it. It's not registering. It's driving me crazy and making me question my own sanity. I'm not giving mixed signals or false hope. Yet he goes about his day as if nothing is wrong, asking for sex daily and then when I say "no"... It's "why? Why would you do this to me?" "You're my wife". Doesn't matter that I told him I'm ready to file. Which I am. Just so hesitant because of what's to come and the children. But I'm pushed to make the decision daily... It's difficult.

[oldshirt]

I believe I am going to have to move forward with hiring an attorney. As weird as this may sound I actually cling to the hope that he will come to terms with what's happening and perhaps man up to what's happening between us as opposed to being so concerned with his sexual needs which seem to be priority right now (at least it comes off that .

 

 

This was what was going through my mind as I read your earlier post but when you mentioned this above, it all made perfect sense.

 

You are in Lah Lah Land and in denial just as much as he. You are wanting him to take charge of this divorce and make it happen without you getting any dirt on your hands.

 

Sorry Sista, if you want a divorce you are going to have to get one. He's not going to hand it to you on a silver platter with whipped cream and a cherry on top.

 

He obviously doesn't want a divorce and so far his strategy is working and yours isn't.

 

You don't need his consent and collaboration to divorce. If you want one you will have to pull up your big girl pants and get one... Even if it's without his help.

 

You can't do anything to snap him out of his denial and fantasy world so at least make a good faith effort to snap out of yours and face reality.

[oldshirt]

Responses in bold below.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I I guess my original question regarding the denial is more for my mental stability

 

 

There is that old saying that goes - " .....the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."

you are doing the same thing over and over, but yet you expect him to change.

 

 

 

 

because as much as I've reiterated how I feel and where we stand it's pretty much the equivalent to having a conversation with a brick wall. He's not getting it. It's not registering.

 

 

As I said in my post above, you are expecting him to take the bull by the horns and bring home a divorce for you. He has made it clear he does not want a divorce nor think one is warranted. He is not going to wake up one day and want a divorce and make it happen.

That is what is not registering with you. You are the one that isn't getting it.

 

 

It's driving me crazy and making me question my own sanity.

 

 

see above about doing the same thing and expecting different results.

 

 

I'm not giving mixed signals or false hope.

 

 

Actually you are. You are giving VERY mixed messages and you are giving false hope (or maybe real hope)

Actions always speak louder than words. People are what they do, not what they say. You may have said you don't love him and that you want to a divorce, but yet you continue to have a home and family with him and while you have said you do not want to have sex with him, you have not come right out and said that you are in a sexless marriage, so we are left to assume that you actually ARE having sex with him. And you haven't lifted a finger to leave and you haven't lifted a finger to make a divorce actually happen.

There for in his mind you are just whining and complaining, but you aren't actually serious.

From his perspective you are still a husband and wife having a home and family life and are still sexually active.

You mouth may say you want a divorce but your body is saying you are still a wife, a mother and a lover.

Body always trumps mouth. Actions and behaviors always trump words.

 

 

Yet he goes about his day as if nothing is wrong, asking for sex daily and then when I say "no"... It's "why? Why would you do this to me?" "You're my wife".

 

 

As I said in my post above, his strategy is working. He is married, still has a wife, a home, an intact family and a marital sex life.

 

 

 

 

Doesn't matter that I told him I'm ready to file.

 

 

 

 

You are correct - it doesn't matter. Nothing you say ever matters if it isn't backed up by actions. You can say you want a divorce ten times a day but it doesn't mean a thing if you keep on having a married, family and sex life with him.

 

 

Which I am.

 

 

Obviously you are not otherwise you would have.

 

 

 

 

Just so hesitant because of what's to come and the children. But I'm pushed to make the decision daily

 

 

And the decision you have made every day has been the decision to stay.

 

 

 

 

... It's difficult.

 

 

Yes, divorces are difficult. and they are messy and upsetting and sad and expensive and cause a big disruption of life.

People actually do it though when the pain of staying outweighs the pain, expense and fear of leaving.

 

 

 

 

[floridamom]

Thank you all for your responses. Harsh reality in every word written. Guess it's time to stop bitching and start acting.

 

Thanks for opening up my eyes.

[loveboid]

I'm sorry you're going through this. I was with a very similar man. I would break up with him and he would pretend it didn't happen. I broke up with him about 30 times. What others don't understand is that you are, as I was, constantly standing up for yourself and this guy is constantly, willfully, mercilessly, and relentlessly tearing you down. If he isn't doing it directly he's doing it indirectly until we feel crazy.

 

Go no contact. It's a marathon. Expect him to ignore it and pretend you are still a couple. Move out in the middle of the day or night, whenever he's not home. Only communicate through your mediator or lawyer. Do not answer his calls. Do not answer his emails. Do not open the door to him!!!!! Ever!!!!! Once a divorce settlement is signed and if you have shared custody, email is fine...nothing else...forever and ever and ever! He is totally disrespectful, pre meditated on purpose and will be for the rest of his life. It's hopeless.

 

I know you can get out of this situation. I did. All he wants to do, I guarantee, is waste your time.

[oldshirt]

Guess it's time to stop bitching and start acting.

 

.

 

Yup.

 

 

Bitching never solves anything. Taking action and doing things to make stuff happen does.

[oldshirt]

. I would break up with him and he would pretend it didn't happen. I broke up with him about 30 times. .

.

 

This is like the people who say - "quiting smoking is easy, I've done it lots of times. " LOL

[oldshirt]

 

Go no contact. It's a marathon. Expect him to ignore it and pretend you are still a couple. Move out in the middle of the day or night, whenever he's not home. Only communicate through your mediator or lawyer. Do not answer his calls. Do not answer his emails. Do not open the door to him!!!!! Ever!!!!! Once a divorce settlement is signed and if you have shared custody, email is fine...nothing else...forever and ever and ever!

.

 

 

 

Yes. This is what it will take.

[S2B]

Mr. Lucky,

 

I suppose you're right. I guess my original question regarding the denial is more for my mental stability because as much as I've reiterated how I feel and where we stand it's pretty much the equivalent to having a conversation with a brick wall. He's not getting it. It's not registering. It's driving me crazy and making me question my own sanity. I'm not giving mixed signals or false hope. Yet he goes about his day as if nothing is wrong, asking for sex daily and then when I say "no"... It's "why? Why would you do this to me?" "You're my wife". Doesn't matter that I told him I'm ready to file. Which I am. Just so hesitant because of what's to come and the children. But I'm pushed to make the decision daily... It's difficult.

 

He acts like things are the same because they are the same.

 

When any person makes a decision it means nothing without action. He doesn't believe you because it's an idle threat. When YOU do something to change it - it will change.

 

The only one in charge of your life is you.

 

I allowed the same type of abuse for nearly 25 years - and I will tell you it freedom being away from a controlling, abusive and suffocating man.

 

The only one I can blame is ME! I ALLOWED it to be that way! NO MORE! Not ever again. It took a year of intensive trauma therapy for me to learn to be a woman of strength. I'm free! I hope you take action to be free too.

 

File for divorce immediately. Move immediately or have him move. It's imperative that you DO this FOR YOURSELF.

 

 

No need to listen to his guilt trips anymore! He will surely get a crystal clear message when you state calmly "get out and get out now."

 

Take the tracking stuff off! When there's dishes and laundry to be done tell him to do them instead of hovering over you and "watching".

 

No one should be under a microscope that way.

 

Normally I would say go to counseling but I don't think it will help a man as needy as he is - as demanding as he is - and as clueless as he is.

 

You moving forward without him is the only way to show him this is reality!

 

If needed, change your phone number and get a new phone. Otherwise he's likely to continue creeping on you.

 

Be clear - take action. Idle threats mean nothing.

[oldshirt]

He acts like things are the same because they are the same.

 

When any person makes a decision it means nothing without action. He doesn't believe you because it's an idle threat. When YOU do something to change it - it will change.

 

The only one in charge of your life is you.

 

I allowed the same type of abuse for nearly 25 years - and I will tell you it freedom being away from a controlling, abusive and suffocating man.

 

The only one I can blame is ME! I ALLOWED it to be that way! NO MORE! Not ever again. It took a year of intensive trauma therapy for me to learn to be a woman of strength. I'm free! I hope you take action to be free too.

 

File for divorce immediately. Move immediately or have him move. It's imperative that you DO this FOR YOURSELF.

 

 

No need to listen to his guilt trips anymore! He will surely get a crystal clear message when you state calmly "get out and get out now."

 

Take the tracking stuff off! When there's dishes and laundry to be done tell him to do them instead of hovering over you and "watching".

 

No one should be under a microscope that way.

 

Normally I would say go to counseling but I don't think it will help a man as needy as he is - as demanding as he is - and as clueless as he is.

 

You moving forward without him is the only way to show him this is reality!

 

If needed, change your phone number and get a new phone. Otherwise he's likely to continue creeping on you.

 

Be clear - take action. Idle threats mean nothing.

 

 

 

I agree with all of this but with the exception of it doesn't matter if he gets the message or not as long as he complies with the court orders and the law.

 

 

You are going to have to take charge of your own life regardless of whether he buys off on it or not.

[loveboid]

I agree with all of this but with the exception of it doesn't matter if he gets the message or not as long as he complies with the court orders and the law.

 

You are going to have to take charge of your own life regardless of whether he buys off on it or not.

 

Oh he gets the message...he just doesn't like or respect what he's hearing!

 

I agree, keep taking charge. Keep educating yourself. This style of attitude and behavior is known and researched. You have to learn to do un-normal things to get rid of this person.

[floridamom]

Loveboid -

Thank you for sharing your situation and for your input. That's exactly what I'm going through every single day. It's been a process for me to be vocal about how I feel. Lately I just vomit whatever is only heart. The denial I'm in is hoping hearing the brutal honesty would move him to man up and be like "you don't love me? Fine. Let's go our separate ways" but as you know and as I explained it's quite the opposite. The sneaky escape plan is what I dread. There are guns in the home and although he's toned it down with the rage - I worry. Especially since he seems "bipolar" on this divorce subject. But I HAVE TO get out of this and will start taking action once the week rolls around in terms of solidifying a mediator/attorney.

 

Thank you again for your advice

[Downtown]

There are guns in the home and although he's toned it down with the rage - I worry. Especially since he seems "bipolar" on this divorce subject.

Florida, earlier you mentioned his temper tantrums and verbal abuse expressed against you, even in front of your children. Is this what you're referring to now as his "rage" or have there been incidents of physical abuse? Also, have you seen evidence of him being emotionally unstable over the past ten years? I ask due to your comment about him being "bipolar" on the divorce subject and due to your fear he cannot be trusted with the guns.

[floridamom]

Downtown,

 

His rage has subsided throughout the years. Since we were so quick to marry I came to learn about the anger as the years came and went. Eventually I learned from my mother in law that he has had the rage and anger since his youth where he would see a psychologist in his teens (due to his own parents divorce affecting him in a negative way). The first 7 years of the marriage was the rage. Throwing items, breaking things, insane yelling, repetitiveness. Almost like a broken record. At that point we saw a female marital counselor and a male catholic priest who confirmed his anger issues. We never returned and he knew he needed to change to save the marriage. As to him being physical in the past- yes. Slight things. Spitting in my face, arm grabbing, shoving. After seeing both professionals in year 7 he calmed down on the physicality of the abuse and used verbal abuse as a way of getting his message across. Occasionally I approach his mother with my concerns and she's expressed her own concerns on how he could be bipolar as she researched the symptoms and shows many signs. But it has never been clinically confirmed.

 

On a personal level- when I look at him and follow his eyes when I'm trying so hard to slowly express how I feel and why I feel the way that I do I can see the desperation. It's an uneasy feeling not knowing what the reaction might be and taking the past into consideration. That is why it's been difficult for me to make a move. But after reading through the advice of those who have left their words I am realizing that there is no easy way out or point of realization for him.

 

This morning was yet another morning of him trying to be affectionate, asking for intimacy and wanting to leave for work on good terms with a hug and kiss. None of which I gave in to.

 

I'm done talking with him. I will be moving forward with actions. I've threatened enough.

[Methodical]

I'd be in JAIL, bc after spitting in my face, I'd have clawed his eyeballs, placed a few damaging kicks, piled his 'poop' in the yard and set it on fire. And if for whatever reason I wasn't able to do the above, the minute his eyes closed I'd have served justice.

 

I'm shocked you've put up with him this long.

[Jersey born raised]

My first reaction as a BS is good on you for keeping your hands clean. (am I correct in that assumption?) You sound like a classic walk away spouse.

 

There are hundreds of good reasons to divorce and you have more than a few.

If he was posting here I would paste Pixe's comment about her husband (although she did commit adultery and you have not. Never the less her husband owned his actions and grew.)

 

 

Why improve yourself *by Pixe

 

As a side note I always find it very interesting when a person is hammering their ex mate so hard for cheating and refuses to accept any responsibility for anything that might have been wrong in the marriage.

 

My husband's exwife cheated on him and left him for the OM. She was pregnant by OM before the divorce was final. When I met him he admitted he knew he'd done things in the marriage which left it vulnerable to an affair.*

 

He owned his behavior.*

 

He didn't condone her affair but he accepted responsibility for his part in the demise of their marriage. That was something I had to respect. He worked on himself, in therapy, while they were separated and divorcing. When she wouldn't go to MC, he went alone, and I have reaped the benefit from that counseling. *

Edited April 9, 2016 by Jersey born raised

[Downtown]

His mother expressed her own concerns on how he could be bipolar as she researched the symptoms and shows many signs.

Florida, perhaps his mother is correct about him having bipolar disorder. The intense anger issues you describe here, however, are characteristic of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) traits, not bipolar traits. Moreover, other behaviors you describe -- e.g., his hating to be alone, neediness, lack of impulse control, and his false self image of always being "The Victim" -- are classic warning signs for BPD, not bipolar.

 

Yet, if you really are seeing strong BPD traits, you also should be seeing symptoms of emotional instability, which would be most apparent in a repeating cycle of push-you-away (i.e., creating fights over absolutely nothing to push you away) and pull-you-back (i.e., love bombing and sweet talk to pull you back). This push-pull cycle is one of the hallmarks of a BPDer.

 

That's why I asked if you've observed his being unstable, i.e., having strong mood changes that are triggered by minor comments or actions. If he really does exhibit strong BPD traits, you should be seeing occasional rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you). Importantly, I am not trying to give you a reason to remain with him but, rather, am only trying to help you understand why he has been behaving in a manner that makes you question your own sanity.

 

It's driving me crazy and making me question my own sanity.

Florida, if you really have been living with a BPDer for many years, "questioning your own sanity" is exactly how you should be feeling. Because BPDers typically are convinced that the absurd allegations coming out of their mouths are absolutely true -- they generally have a greater "crazy-making" effect than can ever be achieved by narcissists or sociopaths.

 

This is why that, of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the one most notorious for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. And this is largely why therapists typically see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going insane -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

 

Nothing will drive you crazier sooner than being repeatedly abused by a partner whom you know, to a certainty, must really love you. The reason is that you will be mistakenly convinced that, if only you can figure out what YOU are doing wrong, you can restore your partner to that wonderful human being you saw at the very beginning.

 

I am to blame for all wrong doings… late bills, leaky toilets, you name it.

If your H has strong and persistent BPD traits, he has such a weak self image that -- to the extent he has any lasting self image at all -- it is the false self image of being "The Victim." He therefore will blame every misfortune on you. In that way -- by perceiving you to be "The Persecutor" -- he is easily able to "validate" that false self image of being the poor victim.

 

I am also suffocated to no end. Car is tracked, 10+ calls a day on the cell if not he calls me at work. At home I am followed by him.

Because BPDers have such weak fragile egos, they have a strong need to seek out a partner who will provide them with that missing self identity and sense of direction. This is why they absolutely HATE to live alone. And this is why their emotional neediness will cause them to be suffocating much of the time.

 

This is not to say, however, that they can tolerate intimacy for very long. Granted, BPDers crave intimacy just like nearly everyone else does. Yet, because a BPDer's ego is so fragile and his personal boundaries are so weak, he cannot tolerate intimacy for very long without soon feeling like he is losing himself inside your strong personality. This is why a BPDer typically will push you away by creating a fight over nothing at all. These fights usually are started right after an intimate evening spent together or in the middle of a great vacation -- so as to provide relief from the engulfment a BPDer often feels during intimacy.

 

He has also been controlling.

Because a BPDer has such a great fear of abandonment and engulfment, he typically will be very controlling of his partner's actions. At the same time, however, his subconscious mind will work 24/7 to protect his weak ego from seeing too much of reality, e.g., to protect him from seeing his own mistakes and weaknesses. The subconscious accomplishes this by projecting the hurtful feelings and thoughts onto the partner. The result is that a BPDer usually is completely unaware -- at a conscious level -- that he is the real source of the controlling behavior. Instead, he will be convinced that YOU are the one who is controlling.

 

I want to know if anyone thinks this is normal?

Florida, the behaviors you describe don't sound "normal" to me. I therefore suggest you take a look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join Satu and the other respondents in discussing them with you.

[Mr. Lucky]

The denial I'm in is hoping hearing the brutal honesty would move him to man up and be like "you don't love me? Fine. Let's go our separate ways" but as you know and as I explained it's quite the opposite.

 

How many years have you already waited for this?

 

Mr. Lucky