Hurting me, hurting others

[whichwayisup]

I wish I knew. I know I don't want to hurt anybody but I keep being selfish on this. I have been completely thrown by my attraction to this man. The only other time in my life I have managed to connect with someone so well and so quickly was with my husband.

 

I wanna take a rolled up clean sock and throw it at you! Okay, seriously, this guy gives you nothing and he's playing you for a fool, you've opened yourself up to him and are addicted to him. He is NOT thinking of you like you think about him. I can pretty much guarantee he doesn't give you much thought when he's at home with his wife and family. You think of him (Im assuming and if I'm wrong please tell me) pretty much 24/7.

 

You're letting him have this sick power over you and you keep saying you're not in love with him yet you compared the connection you feel for him vs what you felt towards your husband when you first met him. the difference is, your H is in love with you and IS your life, this MM is USING you and isn't in love with you either.

 

Please go talk to a therapist if you haven't already. You're throwing away a good man, a home, a life you built with him and your kids well being and mental health all for what?

[Messy Lady]

I wasn't very clear there. It's not the same kind if connection but it is comparably strong. It's not an "in love" connection. It's very physical but we also understand each other very well. It's the friendship as well.

[whichwayisup]

I wasn't very clear there. It's not the same kind if connection but it is comparably strong. It's not an "in love" connection. It's very physical but we also understand each other very well. It's the friendship as well.

 

You need to decide if that is more important than the life you have at home with your husband and kids. You're going to get caught eventually and it'll be much worse than you ever imagined. Pop the bubble.

[ChickiePops]

Ok. It's a magical connection. So..tell your husband...

[Messy Lady]

Ok. It's a magical connection. So..tell your husband...

 

If all you are going to do is make sarcastic comments, can I suggest you leave this thread alone.

[Arieswoman]

Messy,

 

If all you are going to do is make sarcastic comments, can I suggest you leave this thread alone.

 

The reason for such a comment is that those of us who are BSs have all heard about this "Special Connection/Wonderful Relationship/Magical Experience"

 

This may explain things a bit better ;

 

Dear Chump Lady, Maybe the OW is "The One"? - ChumpLady.com

[ChickiePops]

Messy,

 

 

 

The reason for such a comment is that those of us who are BSs have all heard about this "Special Connection/Wonderful Relationship/Magical Experience"

 

This may explain things a bit better ;

 

Dear Chump Lady, Maybe the OW is "The One"? - ChumpLady.com

 

Exactly. Everyone wants to think their situation is different. Fact of the matter is, usually it's not. Plus, you're still so early on into this..you could very easily stop it but you won't. You don't care who you're hurting..you're just going selfishly along with this because it's new and exciting. It's really frustrating to see.

 

You came here so obviously part of you wants to stop, but you only seem to be digging your heels in even more.

 

This isn't special. It's just another case of two people being impulsively selfish.

[Messy Lady]

I'm not saying its magical or wonderful or anything like that. But I have been surprised by being attracted so strongly to someone other than my husband. I didn't ask for this to happen but it has and I'm trying to figure out how to deal with it and the possible complications for families and work.

 

I think he is about to pull back again and part of me thinks that would be a good thing and we can just carry on as colleagues. It makes it easy without having some big discussion about it and creating a difficult atmosphere. But then that does not mean he won't try to reel me back in again as he has every other time. I am genuinely torn between what I should do what I want to do. He plays at being strong by "stopping it" but really it will have to be down to me to be the strong one if this is to end.

 

Posting here has helped me see that he is manipulating me but that does not mean I am some helpless victim. I have let him do this. I have encouraged him to do this.

[whichwayisup]

I'm not saying its magical or wonderful or anything like that. But I have been surprised by being attracted so strongly to someone other than my husband. I didn't ask for this to happen but it has and I'm trying to figure out how to deal with it and the possible complications for families and work.

 

I think he is about to pull back again and part of me thinks that would be a good thing and we can just carry on as colleagues. It makes it easy without having some big discussion about it and creating a difficult atmosphere. But then that does not mean he won't try to reel me back in again as he has every other time. I am genuinely torn between what I should do what I want to do. He plays at being strong by "stopping it" but really it will have to be down to me to be the strong one if this is to end.

 

Posting here has helped me see that he is manipulating me but that does not mean I am some helpless victim. I have let him do this. I have encouraged him to do this.

 

You know what's going to happen if you get caught. Two families get blown up, lots of innocent kids devastated and having their safe worlds turned up side down. Your H and his W will lose their respect and trust, you will lose what truly important to you...Not only that but you did say there will be a public fallout as well as professional reputation at risk. Not sure if he is famous or just well known in your City? Just sad because of your addiction to him and not being able to say no. Will you be with you full time if this blows up in your face and your H divorces you? Do you think he'll choose you over his wife and kids? Deep down I think you know the answer to that, so again, ask yourself why and what it is you're doing and most of all, get counseling before you wish you could turn back the clock.

[Messy Lady]

I am not after some big love affair. I don't want to leave my husband. I don't want him to leave his wife. Just as I know I would not leave my husband for him, I know he would not leave his wife for me. I know he is not thinking about me the way I think about him. None of that understanding is deep down and never has been.

 

I do wonder why I am behaving the way I am. My marriage, whilst it has some issues, is still a good and happy one. My husband is the best man I have ever met (or will meet) and I love him. I look forward to my future with him. This makes it even more confusing. I know this is all something about me - my selfishness, my need for validation, my need for excitement, my poor self-control.

[Babs22]

I was almost in your exact situation.

 

I had an affair with my married boss. He too played the push/pull with me, but it was after a very intense full-on A where we were "in love." Then he broke it off and THEN played push/pull. "We can't do this." "I love you, must have you." I fell for it, kept allowing him back. I felt like a used piece of meat by the end. I was a zombie at work, miserable, anxious, depressed.

 

You are going to end up in a very bad situation. It's already bad frankly, but it can get way worse. I doubt he has "feelings" for you, but you do for him. If you continue with this, your feelings will grow. He will keep on doing the hot and cold BS and will simply take advantage of your desire to be with him. He will tell you he must stop, but then he will want to scratch the itch again. You'll want to allow it because of your feelings, and then he'll withdraw due to "guilt." It will happen over and over and over until he drops you cold or you get caught.

 

It will only get worse. Also, you say you love your husband but you won't if you continue this. It will destroy your love for him. What you give to one takes from the other. Women normally can't maintain the love for their BHs.

 

(FYI I had a D Day and lost my job and career...maybe my marriage too, still TBD).

 

Listen to privategal. Be the one who stops this.

 

Messy Lady,

I just read your entire thread and all the advice telling you to put a stop to this relationship before it ends in disaster. The entire time, I am thinking, please listen to this great advice, what everyone is telling you is true. If someone could hand you a crystal ball and you could see into the future, you would take that chance. Southern Sun handed you that crystal ball way back in post #42. She speaks from experience (as do all the people who have posted warnings to you). Look at where she finds herself....she lost her job and career and possibly her marriage.

 

I also speak from experience. I am a MW and have been having an over three year A with a MM. I will tell you, if I could go back and speak to myself before my A went full blown, I would tell myself to stop, get out, don't begin this A. I have never experienced so much pain and heartache.

I worked with my MM for two years of the A, but we were on equal levels, he was not a superior. We were very careful and yet coworkers did talk. My MM has since changed buildings so we no longer work together. That was painful. He didn't do it primarily because coworkers talked, but I am sure that played some factor. It was very difficult to not see him at work every day.

 

We have not had a DD, but my M of 21 years is pretty much over. I do think this was an exit affair for me. I also have never done anything like this before. I thought we were in love. I certainly do love my MM, I do not believe now that the feeling is mutual. You say you love our husband, that you had once connected to him the way you are connecting to MM. Why would you cheat on someone you say you love? How can you do that? My H noticed the distance and the lack of sex/intimacy. I could not continue to have sex with my H and MM at the same time. Impossible. Currently, my H and I do not speak. We live in the same house, and I have chosen to sleep in another bedroom. Sound like fun?

 

I figured out about a year into the A, My MM was never going to leave his wife, but I was in so deep that I have not left yet. We went from texting many times in a day to texting a few times in a day. That on top of seeing him less is a heart breaker. You are already sitting and wondering about whether or not HE is going to push or pull you away. You are waiting for him to make all the moves.

 

You say you do not love him, that this is all about work respect. You say you love your husband. Again, I ask as so many others have asked, why would you risk losing the H you say you love for a man that you say you simply respect? Why are you waiting for the breadcrumbs of attention he feeds you. I say this with much experience of feeling like I am waiting for breadcrumbs. You think it is hard to end this now?? Just wait! The longer this goes on, the harder it will be for you to walk away. Over 3 years I am in this, and what do I have to show for it; a broken marriage, being heart broken often (like every year when he takes a cruise with his wife), crying more tears than I have my entire life. Sounds pathetic, doesn't it. This is your future calling if you do not make some changes. I feel like one of the ghosts from A Christmas Carol, trying to show you what your future will be if you do not change things. I hope you, like Ebeneezer, will listen.

 

Please listen to me and Southern Sun. This is your crystal ball. We are your warning signal. You need to stop this. You need to put up the boundaries. MM will never do this. You need to take control of your life. You will either stop this and try to reconnect with your H or you will continue down this path and end up like Southern Sun and myself. I so wish someone had talked to me before my A was full blown and told me what was in store for me in my future. And I certainly hope that I would have listened.

 

Please wake up before it is too late. You have much to lose. In the end this A will bring you nothing but heartache. That is guaranteed. Respect yourself enough and your H enough to end it now. Is there any possibility of you leaving your job? I think it will be very difficult for you to end this when you see him every day and you seem to have an infatuation, crush on him. Just a thought. Good luck.

[Jersey born raised]

Several points: he is your boss, which most times a company will want to fire him if they found out. Are there more than a few companies with an old boys network, yes. But when lawyers get involved that goes out the window. You are a dual threat now: to his job and to his family. If he feels threaten he will try to push you out.

 

He started in on you from day one. He is a player and uses the work place as his hunting grounds. I found this awhile ago and it sums him up:

 

 

 

A player:

 

Thus was posted by a player who posted this. *What BS needs to understand that the void in a player is only within themselves and will never be filled. *Literary it is a case of it really is them and only them. *

Understand the player will always be looking for his next fix in an endorse quest to fill an unfillabke void.

 

My perspective- as a serial cheat. Before I start, I'm no GQ model look alike and I'm not wealthy.

 

For me, it was always about extra sex. The thrill of the chase and ego boost was a plus, but I just wanted more sex than my wife did. I always loved my wife and certainly never ever wanted to leave her or lose her. Especially not over someone else's wayward wife.

 

I had a simple method. I used it because it worked. I targeted married women. I figured they were safer for several important reasons.

1- Less likely to be sleeping around with random guys (STDs).

2- Less likely to pull the crazy girlfriend BS and call my wife.

3- In case of an unwanted pregnancy, I had a built in schmuck to pay the tab and would have claimed to have had a vasectomy.

 

The most important part of being a player is to hide it. I started with shy looks making certain I'd get caught and then doing my best to look embarrassed. If she started to come around more or dress sexier then I'd try a safe compliment. If she called me on my BS (yes, it happened) I simply acted highly offended. After all, I'm a married family man. That usually got me an apology. A few really smart ones just avoided me altogether.

 

If she accepted the compliment, I knew I had a chance. I never ever wasted time with someone that I didn't want to bed. If the compliment was successful, I simply followed with more as time permitted and just let things develop. Who knew where it would go? When she would speak with me about her frustrations with her husband (they always complained about their husband) I used that to my advantage. If they complained that he didn't do enough with the kids, I was dad of the year. If he didn't help out around the house, I did everything at home so my wife didn't have to. Yes, it was complete BS, but so what. My job was to make them feel special, pretty and needed and to paint the fantasy. After all, my goal was not conversation or friendship. I wanted to score.

 

Once things progressed and I had to keep it intense unless it was simply a once and done kind of thing. I would do that by pushing her boundaries for sex. Anal, public hook-up whatever. Keep in mind, I'm in it for the sex so I tried for everything I liked and heard more than once statements like... I never even let my husband do that. That was usually with anal, but sometimes public hook-ups also.

 

I certainly didn't want to be paying for hotel rooms out my pocket. If she wanted to pay, that was fine. Otherwise, we could hook-up anywhere, it didn't matter to me.

 

I always advised them to keep the secret between us, because it was so special. Actually, I didn't want to get busted. If they got busted, and some did. That was their tough crap to deal with. I certainly never vowed to love/honor/cherish them.

 

As I look back, I'm stunned at how easy it was and how many fell for my crap. I had some that would try to pull away and I'd feed them the star crossed lovers BS, you know... kept apart by the cruel hand of fate. That worked like magic to seal the deal. I also used things like I think my wife may have cheated on me. Then I'd work in how I got tested for STDs and it was clear and somehow manage to mention my vasectomy (never had one). Understand? I'm safe, you won't catch anything if you sleep with me and I won't get you pregnant. That was the message.

 

The one thing that sent me running was the fear of getting caught and sometimes I just wanted a quick bang and wasn't in it for a couple of months of an affair. I'm still also amazed by how many didn't see through my crap either. They didn't have to deal with the day to day stresses that adults face with me (finances, mortgages, car payments, child care, time commitments, etc.). With me, it was just fun and sex. The poor bastard at home didn't have a chance once the play was in motion. It also helped me to see him as a douche-bag when his wife whined about him for whatever reason.

 

I work with a woman that has lost everything over an affair with me. The house, husband, family, etc. It's difficult to see. She hates me now, but I never vowed anything to her or forced her to do anything. That's her tough crap. Her kids are in therapy, their grades tanked and she's struggling financially and the kids blame her, etc. Honestly, I wish she'd quit so I didn't have to see her every freaking day.

 

 

I do know a few like me that I consider even worse. They brag and laugh about getting wayward wives to do things and try to get email or text proof to show off. It's pretty easy, just tell her how much he liked doing X with her last night and let her respond. Then they had proof to brag about and trade notes. I didn't do that. I just wanted the sex and avoided the women they talked about. I liked to find the ones who would seem to be the last to ever do anything like this. Goes back to my 3 reasons.

 

I never flirted with a married woman unless I wanted in her pants. Plain and simple, you do have to hide it so they don't see it coming, but it's really that basic. Other players use different methods, but we all use what works and modify sometimes if we're not progressing to try a different angle. Not all women are the same, and sometimes deviations are required if she'll let you in her pants.

 

It was never about love, just sex. I sold the fantasy, yes. But that is all it ever was. A fair trade. They were adults and quite frankly should have known better. Am I a predator, I certainly never thought so and I certainly never thought about what would happen to them when we were done. Yes, all my affairs ended. Most stayed married to their H they *****ed about and screwed around on. Therefore, he must not have been that bad. People just get caught up with unrealistic expectations on life I think. For goodness sake, Prince charming is only charming because he wants a blow job.

 

Before I close, I'll say this as well. An engaged woman would have worked for me also, but I never found one that would go for me. Also, newly married women are much harder to get. I had the best luck with women who had been married for at least several years, throw a kid or two in the mix and they were usually more susceptible to being chased.

[Ophelia25]

It's interesting that the advice to the BS in the article was to leave the man and let him to his "one and only true love" because he's an awful cheater who doesn't deserve her. And the advice to the OP is to leave this man and let him be with his wife, because he's an awful cheater who doesn't deserve her.

 

Is it ever possible, or am I just ridiculously naive, that these awful cheaters become so because they genuinely realize that they married the wrong person, messed up their marriages, changed too much, etc. and now have a new person they would be happier with? And instead of doing things the more acceptable way (i.e. divorcing and remarrying), they cheat because they are afraid of ripping apart their families, destroying their reputations, ruining their finances, etc.?

 

I'm not saying this is my situation - I don't think it is. I think he's a cake eater for sure, and has used me repeatedly to fill in the things that he's missing with his wife and doesn't know how to work out. But I, too, am shocked at my behavior. I even feel like a "loyal" person, which is just preposterous. But I fell in love with AP first, when I was 15, and sadly, I never was able to shed those feelings. So, I feel "loyal" to him as well as my husband. Maybe he feels the same way. It doesn't justify the fact that we have blown up our marriage vows and hurt innocent people, but I do think that maybe there are real feelings in there somewhere, that always seem to be discounted as soon as we are labeled selfish cheaters. Which we are, I know. I just...I don't know, I feel like we torture each other and torture ourselves with all this guilt for our selfish actions. And we likely deserve it. But I think that sometimes, our selfish actions could be prompted by genuine and even good-intentioned emotions. I imagined as a teenager that my entire life would be devoted to making this man happy. We broke up. Then, he came back and kept telling me how much he'd messed up and how this or that could help make him happy. Yes, selfish manipulation. But also, I felt happier knowing that I was making him feel happier. And he did, too. Selfish asses. But...maybe with some good intentions?

 

I don't know, I'm mixed up.

[Jersey born raised]

Your marriage, husband, and family are be impacted although you might not realize it your family does not why. Your husband most likely thinks at this point is part up the ups and downs of marriage and is giving you space,

 

I think you need to step back and look at the issues in your marriage that are unresolved.

 

One last thought: be the person who you would be proud of. If something causes you doubt and runs against your "grain" step back and reverse course.

[whichwayisup]

I am not after some big love affair. I don't want to leave my husband. I don't want him to leave his wife. Just as I know I would not leave my husband for him, I know he would not leave his wife for me. I know he is not thinking about me the way I think about him. None of that understanding is deep down and never has been.

 

I do wonder why I am behaving the way I am. My marriage, whilst it has some issues, is still a good and happy one. My husband is the best man I have ever met (or will meet) and I love him. I look forward to my future with him. This makes it even more confusing. I know this is all something about me - my selfishness, my need for validation, my need for excitement, my poor self-control.

 

Your actions show otherwise.

 

Are you willing to go to counseling to fix yourself and find out why you need validation from other men, aka MM? What's broken inside of you to risk so much? You have to figure this out soon otherwise you WILL lose everything and sadly you'll have nobody to blame but yourself and the choices you've made.

[ChickiePops]

I'm not saying its magical or wonderful or anything like that. But I have been surprised by being attracted so strongly to someone other than my husband. I didn't ask for this to happen but it has and I'm trying to figure out how to deal with it and the possible complications for families and work.

 

I think he is about to pull back again and part of me thinks that would be a good thing and we can just carry on as colleagues. It makes it easy without having some big discussion about it and creating a difficult atmosphere. But then that does not mean he won't try to reel me back in again as he has every other time. I am genuinely torn between what I should do what I want to do. He plays at being strong by "stopping it" but really it will have to be down to me to be the strong one if this is to end.

 

Posting here has helped me see that he is manipulating me but that does not mean I am some helpless victim. I have let him do this. I have encouraged him to do this.

 

You are still painting yourself as a helpless victim by saying that he's manipulating you into this affair. He's not. The pain you are feeling, the pain you are causing others - your husband, your children, his wife and children, the potential damage to your career..that's all 100% on you.

 

You are choosing to hurt your family. You are choosing to ruin your career. He's not manipulating you, you are a perfectly willing participant in this.

 

The same goes for him. But you two are equally responsible for all the damage you're doing.

 

At least own up to it if you're not going to change it. You are not powerless. You're choosing to do this.

[Messy Lady]

Why am I putting up with these games? What is wrong with me? He's just done something which has annoyed me and made me feel put in my place. Yet he won't even let it cross his mind that he might have hurt my feelings because I don't matter when he's not with me.

[elaine567]

He's just done something which has annoyed me and made me feel put in my place. Yet he won't even let it cross his mind that he might have hurt my feelings because I don't matter when he's not with me.

 

What has he just done?

[Messy Lady]

There was an exchange of work related emails and he closed it down very abruptly in such a way as to make it clear he did not want to carry on the exchange as it was the weekend. Basically I was being told to leave him alone until we are back in work.

 

 

It's not as if we are texting each other or have any other contact outside of work. For someone who says he has never done this kind of thing before, he was absolutely adamant that there should be no texting as that's how people get caught.

 

 

So I'm only allowed to have any contact with him when it suits him.

[elaine567]

YOU are in one box, his wife and kids are in another, the boxes need to be kept completely separate.

You overstepped the mark, so you need to get back into your box...

 

Please get some respect for yourself here.

If his wife finds out you will be thrown under the bus and your broken body dumped in the trash can, faster than the speed of light.

[Messy Lady]

I know what he's doing with me and yes, he wants me in that box and only taken out when he wants to play.

 

 

Yet if I challenged him, he'd probably come out with some very plausible line about how weekends are not for work, etc and that he had also just done some work for me as a personal favour so its not as if he'd been completely ignoring me.

 

 

I'm already making excuses for him. This is pathetic.

[SomethingToSay]

Yes it is pathetic. Very pathetic.

 

Its not sexy or romantic or dramatic. Its just plain pathetic.

 

Reread the post about the Player. Thats your boss to a tee.

[ChickiePops]

I know what he's doing with me and yes, he wants me in that box and only taken out when he wants to play.

 

 

Yet if I challenged him, he'd probably come out with some very plausible line about how weekends are not for work, etc and that he had also just done some work for me as a personal favour so its not as if he'd been completely ignoring me.

 

 

I'm already making excuses for him. This is pathetic.

 

If you know how awful and pathetic it is then why in the world are you still doing it??

[whichwayisup]

Why am I putting up with these games? What is wrong with me? He's just done something which has annoyed me and made me feel put in my place. Yet he won't even let it cross his mind that he might have hurt my feelings because I don't matter when he's not with me.

 

What's it going to take to find self love and respect for yourself?? I wish I could wave a wand and make you understand, make you stronger so you can end it with him.

 

You say it's pathetic, it's beyond that. It's DAMAGING to you and everyday you allow him to treat you like crap, to belittle you, make you feel worthless is another day you lose YOU.

 

This is so unhealthy and you're asking for more.

 

Please seek counseling, you need someone professional to pull you out of this situation and make you see just how awful your choices are and how damaging they are to you.

[privategal]

He realized your weekend "work" contact was really your neediness and expectation he pay attention to you.

This is HIS WIFE'S time.

He's literally telling you that.

He takes her out, works around the house and yard with her, they bond and have sex...

You are the 9-5 stand in to fawn over him and make him feel like the man at work. Thats your role.

He's not dumb that your work content emails are only for his time.

If he cared at all he would use the same excuse "work" and be giddy that you are emailing.

He has no respect for you and is annoyed.

Read your thread again now from the beginning though I imagine it wont help as you never post here during the week...thats when your all placated and lost in affairyland.

Its when your off and miserable withouthis valudation.

The 'pain' your in...dont worry...plenty more where that came from, you just wait. You chose to ignore sound advice...this is what you signed up for.