Hurting me, hurting others

[Messy Lady]

Why are the 'rewards' of allowing yourself to be played by a guy who feels nothing for you except his erection worth risking your marriage and career for?

 

That would take us back to a post earlier in this thread about whether I love or respect me. I have to figure out why I do this so I can work on dealing with those weaknesses in my character.

[TaraMaiden2]

That would take us back to a post earlier in this thread about whether I love or respect me. I have to figure out why I do this so I can work on dealing with those weaknesses in my character.

 

Not so.

 

First of all - most importantly you have to quit this situation completely.

 

Time enough later to examine the whys and wherefores.

[Messy Lady]

Not so.

 

First of all - most importantly you have to quit this situation completely.

 

Time enough later to examine the whys and wherefores.

 

Of course! It is automatically assumed that I must end this. Why is that? How is that providing support as this forum is supposed to be for?

 

Where is the objectivity that comes from true support?

 

I see plenty of judgement however.

[thecharade]

I am very sorry for what you are going through. I understand the emotional turmoil, but I have come out on the other side.

 

Honestly, you have to save yourself. There is no one else, even though I wish I could offer you some help or relief. Find a good therapist, walk in and put it all out there. You need support, a place to vent, a safe place to share your hurt, and some direction! Counselors are literally the only people safe enough and skilled enough to help you sort all this out. This mess is real--it's not nothing, and it hurts.

 

It took several months, but my counselor saved my life. I continue to lean on her several years later because I can trust her. Good luck!

[Scarlett.O'hara]

Of course! It is automatically assumed that I must end this. Why is that? How is that providing support as this forum is supposed to be for?

 

Where is the objectivity that comes from true support?

 

I see plenty of judgement however.

 

I tried to offer you some objective advice without harsh judgement and you simply ignored it.

 

I can't see this ending unless you address the intimacy issues with you husband, which you mentioned briefly in an earlier post. This affair is making you feel desired and fulfilling a need that isn't being met at home, right?

 

Since you have already put your marriage at risk, why not just tell your husband that the lack of intimacy is tempting you to stray outside of the marriage? Ask him if he is willing to put more effort in that area of you marriage with you. It is worth fighting for your marriage and trying to reconnect.

 

Perhaps there are new an exciting ways you could pleasure each other if intercourse isn't possible? It is certainly worth exploring, not to mention a brilliant way to refocus your sexual energy on the one man who truly deserves it.

 

You and your husband need to come to an understanding in your relationship for you to find peace and feel good about yourself again.

 

Anyway that is where I would advise you to focus your attention. It's up to you.

[ChickiePops]

Of course! It is automatically assumed that I must end this. Why is that? How is that providing support as this forum is supposed to be for?

 

Where is the objectivity that comes from true support?

 

I see plenty of judgement however.

 

What is bad or judgmental about advising you to get out of a negative situation?

[Messy Lady]

I tried to offer you some objective advice without harsh judgement and you simply ignored it.

 

 

You did Scarlett and it was not ignored, it was just difficult to respond to everything that I have had said to me.

 

It is actually something I have been trying to work on even more so in the last few weeks.

 

I should, add that there are no medical issues, intercourse is possible and if anybody initiates, it's me even though I know he too wants to have more sex.

[SomethingToSay]

So if he wants more sex why doesnt he initiate.

 

I cant tell frim your recent post if you are frustrated that everyone is telling you to quit the A or if you are being sarcastic. If the former, and you dont want to be told to quit the A, then want sort of advice are you looking for? How to continue without getting hurt? How to compartmentalize? What the MM is feeling?

 

My imprrssion is you are wanting help in how to stop hurting yourself and hurting others. The only way to do that is quit the affair. The fact your MM treats you so awfully and with such disrespect, coupled with the risk to your career, marriage and children, makes even more of a no brainer.

[Scarlett.O'hara]

You did Scarlett and it was not ignored, it was just difficult to respond to everything that I have had said to me.

 

It is actually something I have been trying to work on even more so in the last few weeks.

 

I should, add that there are no medical issues, intercourse is possible and if anybody initiates, it's me even though I know he too wants to have more sex.

 

I'm glad that you did and that it is something that you have being trying to work on. Please don't give up on the idea.

 

I personally would try anything. I mean, if you want to remain married which is absolutely your choice, it would help to have some great sex with each other.

 

If if he already "up" for it then he might be willing to be more adventurous. Of course attraction is an important component, but there might be something to give it an extra spark.. something kinky, perhaps even risky..

 

It might be fun just to try a few things.. worth trying to reprogram your arousal towards him if you can.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Scarlett.O'hara

[lftbehind]

Of course! It is automatically assumed that I must end this. Why is that? How is that providing support as this forum is supposed to be for?

 

Where is the objectivity that comes from true support?

 

I see plenty of judgement however.

 

You need to end it, because it's self-destructive.

[whichwayisup]

Of course! It is automatically assumed that I must end this. Why is that? How is that providing support as this forum is supposed to be for?

 

Where is the objectivity that comes from true support?

 

I see plenty of judgement however.

 

Nobody here is going to encourage you to keep going with this affair. It's damaging and unhealthy. From the get-go you've been saying it has to end. That so many innocent people are going to get hurt. That the fallout would be huge, publicly too. How is telling you to end the affair once and for all NOT supportive? We've all suggested ways of getting you to end it, and almost 19 pages of the same advice, you're still in the affair and saying the same things from page 1.

 

 

Respectfully, what do you want? Do you want to end it or do you want to continue the affair?

[Messy Lady]

I was blunt last night in my post because I was fed up with the bluntness of some posters in the way they lecture. I do realise that not everybody is doing that but a few are.

 

It did strike me as ironic that there I was getting annoyed and lashed out at posters telling me what to do yet I let this man tell me what to do.

 

He has been treating me better (though still not as he should I guess you would say) but I have some time now to put some distance between him and I for a while and I want to use that time to think about what I want to do.

[TaraMaiden2]

I was blunt last night in my post because I was fed up with the bluntness of some posters in the way they lecture. I do realise that not everybody is doing that but a few are.

 

It did strike me as ironic that there I was getting annoyed and lashed out at posters telling me what to do yet I let this man tell me what to do.

I think you just had an "Ahaaah!" moment, there.....

 

He has been treating me better (though still not as he should I guess you would say) but I have some time now to put some distance between him and I for a while and I want to use that time to think about what I want to do.

(Oh god, I'm going to be blunt again! )

 

What you 'want' to do, may not necessarily marry up with what you 'need' to do.

And I think if you scrutinise it, there's a world of difference between the two.

It may even be the crux of the matter, because the two are worlds apart.

 

What you want - is unattainable.

What you need - is probably the most difficult thing you're ever going to have to do.

 

Hence your continued procrastination.

 

(And I honestly don't mean that, unkindly.)

[SolG]

Work and social are two completely different environments. Work, you feel self-assured, confident, professional, self-assured. You have what it takes, because you're experienced and qualified.

In private, you are the complete antithesis of the above. And I think this is what he finds so fascinating to be able to manipulate. You have two very different personas.

 

That's what he finds so alluring. That you are so capable and confident in the workplace, but so weak, submissive and compliant outside of it.

He loves being able to bring both those aspects to the fore. It gives him a buzz to know both sides of you exist, and they both behave so differently with him.

 

I think you've nailed it here Tara. Hellllllooo sadist, please meet masochist.

 

Messy, please tell me if I'm way off base here... but on some level do you actually like this and what it does to/for you? Does it make you a little breathless and melty that you know he's going to tell you what to do, and that you're going to comply? No matter the humiliation? Does it give you a rush--despite yourself--to surrender your power? Does his denial make you want him more?

 

If it does, I know this dynamic. Intimately so to speak. I'm a switch; and I love this type of power play. The eroticism of bringing an otherwise powerful and in control man to his knees (for me with the added dimension of knowing I'll get mine in return). All those one way exchanges where he gleans information from you? That's so he knows better and better what buttons to push to bring you to heel. He gives you none because this is a one way proposition.

 

Why the intermittent shows of kindness and attraction? Because that's how you train a pet; with treats and pats on the head. So they're all the more willing to do as you say when you say it. And it's working a treat. You are virtually panting for him... without even really knowing why.

 

The difference is that I NEVER play this type of game outside of an established emotionally intimate relationship. I would NEVER do this to someone without their express desire and consent. Equally, I would NEVER submit to it without the same parameters. Because it isn't safe to do so without care and kindness; emotionally or psychologically.

 

Regardless Messy, your MM is a sadistic ass*&le of immense proportions who obviously has some dark inner moppets that need spanking. I don't give a crap about him though; you're the one at risk in so many ways. GET OUT NOW!

[elaine567]

When we witness a child playing with fire is it "judgemental" to tell him that fire is dangerous and if he doesn't come away from the fire, he is going to get badly burned?

 

This is NOT necessarily about the affair per se or "judgement", as the advice to get out now would be the same if the boss was a single man and the you were a single woman.

This is a toxic dynamic, made worse by the fact it is taking place inside the workplace and your job is at stake here.

 

But carry on being your boss's little "sub" and when he gets bored of that game, he will bin you like a piece of trash, and your "professional standing" will be in tatters. He may be "nasty" at times now but think of how nasty he could be when he doesn't need to play nice any longer?

A few raised eyebrows, winks and nods in the right places and any credibility you may have won over the years will be lost.

Workplace games may just be just workplace games but behind them there is often an agenda, he may just like "the extra", but he may also be playing a more serious game here.

YOU may only wake up to that one, when you get the sack, or he "replaces" you one day and you are then persona non grata at work.

Be careful, keep your eyes open and your wits about you.

[Messy Lady]

There are details I have not posted because it would be TMI bit it means that it would very difficult if not impossible for him to sack me. There is also no competition as such from other women at work who he might consider worthy of replacing me. That's not about me being big headed, it is about the mix of people, etc at work.

 

I also do know that I am not making it clear as to how good a bond he and I have regarding work and how strong that work relationship is and the friendship that has developed there. He would have to be a Jekyll and Hyde character if some of the things posted here were to be true but I really don't see him like that. Still part of me thinks he is just as torn and conflicted on this as I am and that he has been caught out by our attraction to each other just as much as I have and caught out by the way we are BOTH expressing that attraction.

[elaine567]

I also do know that I am not making it clear as to how good a bond he and I have regarding work and how strong that work relationship is and the friendship that has developed there. He would have to be a Jekyll and Hyde character if some of the things posted here were to be true but I really don't see him like that. Still part of me thinks he is just as torn and conflicted on this as I am and that he has been caught out by our attraction to each other just as much as I have and caught out by the way we are BOTH expressing that attraction.

 

You have only known him a few months, he is your NEW boss. How do you know what he is really like?

 

YOU are projecting your feelings onto him, he may or may not feel that way, you cannot just assume.

In any relationship, there is the honeymoon phase, you cannot assess what he is really like, until he stops being on his best behaviour...

[TaraMaiden2]

There are details I have not posted because it would be TMI bit it means that it would very difficult if not impossible for him to sack me. There is also no competition as such from other women at work who he might consider worthy of replacing me. That's not about me being big headed, it is about the mix of people, etc at work.

 

I also do know that I am not making it clear as to how good a bond he and I have regarding work and how strong that work relationship is and the friendship that has developed there. He would have to be a Jekyll and Hyde character if some of the things posted here were to be true but I really don't see him like that. Still part of me thinks he is just as torn and conflicted on this as I am and that he has been caught out by our attraction to each other just as much as I have and caught out by the way we are BOTH expressing that attraction.

 

You have only known him a few months, he is your NEW boss. How do you know what he is really like?

 

YOU are projecting your feelings onto him, he may or may not feel that way, you cannot just assume.

In any relationship, there is the honeymoon phase, you cannot assess what he is really like, until he stops being on his best behaviour...

 

 

I have to echo this.

Ultimately it has nothing to do with his experience, feelings, actions and input.

the bottom line is that YOU have to decide what's best for YOU, based on YOUR own experience, feelings actions and input.

[ChickiePops]

People are blunt because they are frustrated with you. You came here before your affair actually started, and initially it seemed like you were trying to stop it, but instead you willingly went deeper and deeper into it and you let your obsessive feelings develop. The people here have been trying to SAVE you.

 

It's really difficult to watch someone slowly fill their pockets with rocks and take teeny tiny steps into a lake while you're screaming at them to stop. Many of us have been on one side or another of an affair and we know how devastating it will be. For your marriage, for your career, for YOU, for your husband, for the MMs family (though to be fair, he sounds well practiced in the art of affairs so his wife might be accustomed to his little dalliances) Your chances of getting caught are extremely high..most people who have work affairs do.

 

Even the people who are harsh are trying to help. I think we are all just frustrated because you're sticking your fingers in your ears and skipping into this like you think it's a good thing when it's a terrible thing no matter what side you're on.

 

Recognize your audience. Most people here have been HURT by affairs. That's why we want to stop you.

[loveisanaction]

He has been treating me better (though still not as he should I guess you would say)

 

He should be treating you as a married co-worker..end of.

 

This thread started April 8th and there has been absolutely no change.

 

Everybody has told you to end this with your married co-worker but 18 pages and counting you have done (and are doing) the complete opposite. It seems there was no reason for you to start this thread because at the end of the day you're doing exactly what you want to do.

 

People have given you fantastic advice, advice that would make a paid therapist blush with pride, yet still you make excuses as to why you as a married woman will not stop messing around with your married co-worker.

 

So, why make a thread?

[privategal]

Ive seen it happen many times. Eventually posters get bored of repeating the same advice and the thread runs dry, the story gets old, the poster clearly isnt going to change.

You are about there as it is becoming clear you dont want help.

Ive noticed you havent come to your post to complain or cry recently about his unfair treatment and how his rejection hurts.

Seems to me he has suceeded in programming you and dialing down and controlling your expectations so much...that now it doesnt even hurt you anymore. He suceeded in forcing you into a mental state of submission and your desperate for him so much that any vreadcrumb, any shared project, any superficial compliment is SOMETHING to you. It takes almost nothing for him to satisfy you now.

Its all attention, it all validates you, even a glance from him does.

He broke it off enough times to lower your self esteem and get himself in a power position that he says when and how. He doesnt want or need you but he will take and have you and use you because he just can.

He rejected you enough that now your willing to be victim because his abandonment hurts way worse than being used and still getting SOME attention.

You know your being used and subtely abused but now your allowing it cause the lack of attention when its "off" hurts too much.

The psychological effects of this was so subtle you missed it. Its damaged you so much and you wont go get counseling because you dont want to be told to stop. You dont want to hear you were used, or to be accountable for your participation.

I sense you know fullheartedly there is pending doom and its going to end in absolute catastrophy but at this point your severely addicted and will just accept the fate of that horrendous ending because ending it is too hard, you love it.

[Messy Lady]

I'm now actually finding some posts insulting. And highly imaginative too.

 

I know my state of mind. I know how I feel at the moment. I don't need an armchair psychotherapy session from someone who has never met me and is probably not even qualified to make such comments.

 

There have been some things going over the past week or two which I have not bothered to post here because I knew what the response would be. Thankfully I have been able to PM a couple of posters who have been far more understanding and constructive in their advice whilst still being critical.

[privategal]

Ok, sounds like you've got it all figured out and you've got a handle on it and the affair is going well and to shield yourself from hearing the truth you've found a few empathizing ears to help you so you dont need to keep hearing its wrong and being reminded you are hurting your husband.

Sorry I (amongst others) didnt encourage the behavior and your forming counter 'attacks' is silly since you arent even being attacked. The advice which you dismiss as armchair psychology is theories and opinions and you dont have to embrace or admit to anything that isnt true no...and your right...no one knows you...but you have given an extreme amount of information and arent we to assume youd like honest feed back and opinions and theory on your situation.

What can we say to you cheating, having sex with your boss behind your husbands back, repeatedly returning to aman who said no to you, said he didnt want to do this, then repeated the whole cycle....what should I say to you? Atta girl? Or good luck? Or way to go? Or soothe you when you went in with eyes wide open?

Im so confused what you want from the posters here. Id likely just stick to pm and let your thread die if you will just lash out at anything you dont want to hear.

[TaraMaiden2]

I'm now actually finding some posts insulting. And highly imaginative too.

I will admit quite feely to having been blunt.

But Insulting? Not on my part.

And I am aware, as someone who has experienced Moderation - several times - for the barbed nature of my tongue, that my posts are occasionally viewed by Moderators to ensure conformity.

As far as I am aware, I have not had any posts deleted, moderated or edited by Moderators and I certainly haven't been excluded from the forum for a while now. so I'm hoping that this is due to my adhering to requirements.

Believe me, if I hadn't, they would be quick to let me know.

 

Therefore, I apologise for my part if you have found anything I have said, in my posts, to be insulting.

It was never my intention, but I can only add that it was your interpretation, if indeed, you found them so.

I know my state of mind. I know how I feel at the moment. I don't need an armchair psychotherapy session from someone who has never met me and is probably not even qualified to make such comments.

Speaking for myself, I have been closely involved with a Counselling organisation in the past and was on the road to becoming a qualified counsellor myself....

 

I again though, have to echo the comments of the previous member:

 

...what should I say to you? Atta girl? Or good luck? Or way to go? Or soothe you when you went in with eyes wide open?

Im so confused what you want from the posters here....

 

It's unclear now, precisely what it is you need from us. The suggestion to abandon/close the thread, and stick to PM'ing those who might be simply saying what you'd like to hear (not being one of them, I guess I'm not assenting enough) may be a reasonable one. So then be done with us.

[AlwaysGrowing]

I'm now actually finding some posts insulting. And highly imaginative too.

 

I know my state of mind. I know how I feel at the moment. I don't need an armchair psychotherapy session from someone who has never met me and is probably not even qualified to make such comments.

 

There have been some things going over the past week or two which I have not bothered to post here because I knew what the response would be. Thankfully I have been able to PM a couple of posters who have been far more understanding and constructive in their advice whilst still being critical.

 

 

It is unfortunate that all these weeks later you have have chosen to keep your focus on the affair dynamic.

 

FWIW....there are a few FOW/now married to their FMM posters,where their FMM was a BH first.

 

Speaking generally, men are more likely to have a RA. Some, right out of the gate....most however slowly emotionally disconnect themselves from their WW. Kinda hard to ever feel the same way about ones wife when the affair came with this ^ much thought put into the affair and not a whit about them.

 

If you haven't asked yourself the question "am I willing to lose my marriage/husband/family life,to proceed further with the affair", you are doing yourself a disservice. Because, that is exactly what you are risking. Do not allow yourself to falsely believe that in the event of discovery that your husband won't leave or more likely...unconsciously make himself available. Especially if your husbands major "marriage crime" was being party to the decline of intimacy.

 

Now after having said all that, I realize that you have not asked for any advice about consequences of an affair, how to maintain marriage boundaries, work ethics/boundaries, how to have more intimacy at home and the like.

 

It will be the lack of giving any weight/thought to that^, that will give you the most grief if this all blows up.