Is anyone into The Swinging Lifestyle?

[jen1447]

My definition is swinging is something that a couple does together as part of their own sexual experience as a couple. It is something they do together for a higher level of stimulation and excitement within the marital bed.

 

Poly is three or more people within an ongoing relationship. These can be long term and exclusive or they can be of shorter duration and open.

 

Open marriage is where one or both members of the couple are able to date/have sex/have relationship(s) with others with consent and under various parameters.

 

 

I do not believe the line between those things are solid though. I think for many people the lines between swinging, poly and open are very permeable and amorphous.

 

That is why it is so difficult to answer Dichotomy's questions on definitions.

 

No, it's bc your definitions are goofy.

 

Let's check the Wiki -

 

Swinging - Swinging, also known as wife swapping or partner swapping, is a non-monogamous behavior in which both singles and partners in a committed relationship engage in sexual activities with others as a recreational or social activity.

 

Polyamory - Polyamory is the practice of, or desire for, intimate relationships involving more than two people, with the knowledge and consent of everyone involved. It has been described as "consensual, ethical, and responsible non-monogamy".

 

Open relationship - An open relationship is an interpersonal relationship in which the parties want to be together but agree to a form of a non-monogamous relationship.

[CarrieT]

It may be kinky and it may unexpected to others, but it is anything but random and indescriminate.

Meh - I had a weekend or two (thirty years ago) with people-puddles of 20- and 30-people that was exceptionally random and indiscriminate.

 

But the lifestyle has definitely changed...

[oldshirt]

 

Again, remember that swinging is a very specific thing that describes a sexual behavior. It's not a sexuality or an orientation. It's a lifestyle.

 

Not really all that complicated.

 

I disagree that swinging is specific and uncomplicated.

 

There are millions of swingers out there with millions of different views, outlooks, practices and goals. It's very complex and open ended.

 

As far as whether consensual nonmonogamy is an orientation or a lifestyle practice by choice- that debate rages on within the lifestyle community itself with good argue mental being made on either side.

 

I will say this about myself however - never in my life have I felt more natural and more true to myself and more connected to a partner than when my wife and I were actively swinging. Those were the best years of my life and the time that I felt the most connected to a group and a group mindset.

 

I don't know if it is an orientation or not but it sure felt like it when I was in it.

[oldshirt]

Meh - I had a weekend or two (thirty years ago) with people-puddles of 20- and 30-people that was exceptionally random and indiscriminate.

 

But the lifestyle has definitely changed...

 

I'm not saying it doesn't happen or has never happened.

 

I am just saying that hasn't been the common practice in my experience or direct observations.

 

Back in the 70s, Plato's Retreat could have a hundred or more couples in the orgy room. There could be gals lining up multiple dozens of guys and having every one of them.

 

I know that went on because I've talked to some of the old dawgs that were there. I've been in a number of club orgy rooms myself, but it was all very selective and discriminating. I have never seen anything of a "take-all-commers" mentality in experience.

 

And I have the feeling even in the pre-HIV golden age of swinging, there was still a lot of mindful selection taking place most of the time for most of the people.

[oldshirt]

No, it's bc your definitions are goofy.

 

Let's check the Wiki -

 

Swinging - Swinging, also known as wife swapping or partner swapping, is a non-monogamous behavior in which both singles and partners in a committed relationship engage in sexual activities with others as a recreational or social activity.

 

Polyamory - Polyamory is the practice of, or desire for, intimate relationships involving more than two people, with the knowledge and consent of everyone involved. It has been described as "consensual, ethical, and responsible non-monogamy".

 

Open relationship - An open relationship is an interpersonal relationship in which the parties want to be together but agree to a form of a non-monogamous relationship.

 

 

And how is that fundamentally different than what I said other than verbiage?

[road]

Any time the subject of swinging is brought up, the topic of cheating usually follows immediately.

 

Swinging and cheating are two different concepts that are really independent of each other.

 

Cheater neither causes nor prevents cheating.

 

Cheating is an act of selfishness and entitlement without regard to the other party's feelings. If someone is selfish and entitled and doesn't respect others feelings, they are going to cheat whether in a swinging relationship or a monogamous one.

 

Cheating is about breaking the rules of the relationship. Swinging will neither prevent that nor enable it.

 

Didn't Taylor Swift have a song about that? - "cheaters gonna cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat...l

 

Cheaters cheat because they're cheaters, not because they're swingers. Someone that will cheat in a swinging relationship will cheat in a traditional one just as well.

 

An honest, trustworthy person won't in either.

 

You can make all the arguments that swinging is not cheating.

 

 

That does not take away the fact that I have seen countless marriages become open, rules made, such as you can't see a person more then 2 times, must tell when they have a date and with who, then rules broken, affairs start, husbands get dumped and divorced.

 

 

To get some extra side action and gamble that there will be no cheating, divorces, have kids come from broken homes is not worth the risk of these outcomes.

 

 

I have seen open marriages fail for more people then it has worked for.

[TrustedthenBusted]

What do you mean?

 

 

I mean that while I agree with you on principle, that only cheaters gonna cheat within the Swinging community, my strongly held suspicion is that cheating is even more prevalent amongst the swinging community than it is amongst the non-swinging community.

 

So to find someone in that community ( or two people or four, as the case may be ) who will remain non-monogamously monogamous to each other or whatever its called in that world, would be like....finding a unicorn.

 

 

Four unicorns, actually.

[TrustedthenBusted]

 

I have seen open marriages fail for more people then it has worked for.

 

Yep. In fact I don't think I've ever seen an open marriage survive more than a couple years after they made the "deal."

 

Married women with permission ( and desire ) to prowl are highly marketable commodities, and find they have their choice of available men.

 

Married men out on the prowl are just creepy, and about as marketable as chewed bubblegum in comparison.

 

Look at some of the stories in the infidelity forum. Tons of married men dating DOWN, and sometimes WAY down because those are the only options.

[oldshirt]

You can make all the arguments that swinging is not cheating.

 

 

That does not take away the fact that I have seen countless marriages become open, rules made, such as you can't see a person more then 2 times, must tell when they have a date and with who, then rules broken, affairs start, husbands get dumped and divorced.

 

 

To get some extra side action and gamble that there will be no cheating, divorces, have kids come from broken homes is not worth the risk of these outcomes.

 

 

I have seen open marriages fail for more people then it has worked for.

 

 

Let's not forget that that we've all seen countless traditional marriages succumb to the same fate and the only rule they had was not to get involved with anyone else at all.

 

There's really no less gamble in trying to maintain a strictly monogamous marriage.

 

My point is not that swingers do not cheat or divorce because they do. My point is that swinging neither causes not prevents cheating. The two concepts are independent of each other.

 

There are millions of people that cheat with coworkers every day. Millions cheat with family friends and neighbors. Millions cheat with people they meet in a bar on GNO.

 

Cheaters gonna cheat cheat cheat cheat cheat whether they are swinging or not.

 

I know my outlooks are not the norm but before we started swinging, I realized my wife may cheat on me with a swing partner as that is a risk.

 

But she could just as easily cheat with coworker or a neighbor or just some dude that trips her trigger around town.

 

While it would suck if she cheated with a swing partner and left me, it would suck no less if she cheated with a coworker and at least if we were swinging I would be out partying it up and getting mine too rather than sitting at home wondering when she was gonna get home from work.

 

I decided to give swinging a try and taking my chances.

 

So far neither cheating scenario ever came to fruition.

[oldshirt]

Now I will say that not all swinging scenarios are created equal.

 

In my opinion, couples that engage in "hot wife" scenario or have an open marriage where the fem half plays and the husband doesn't, are at disproportionate risk of the wife losing respect and attraction for the H and are at disproportionate risk of falling for a play partner.

 

The risk there is more of a respect and attraction issue than pure infidelity issue, but IMHO the risk is disproportionate than garden variety swinging.

[oldshirt]

I mean that while I agree with you on principle, that only cheaters gonna cheat within the Swinging community, my strongly held suspicion is that cheating is even more prevalent amongst the swinging community than it is amongst the non-swinging community.

 

So to find someone in that community ( or two people or four, as the case may be ) who will remain non-monogamously monogamous to each other or whatever its called in that world, would be like....finding a unicorn.

 

 

Four unicorns, actually.

 

We may have to agree to disagree on that. I simply do not believe that cheating is any more or any less prevalent in the swinging community than in the general population.

 

 

If anything I believe it is less but it does occur.

 

 

And swingers that follow their established rules for swinging are no more or less unicorns than traditional married couples who follow their rules.

 

 

One of the things that nonswingers have the most trouble comprehending is that other than having consensual sex with other couples, swingers are not "different" than anyone else. Swingers and nonswingers do not come from different molds.

 

 

There are swingers that follow the rules just as there are monogamists that follow the rules.

 

 

And there are swingers that don't follow the rules just as there are monogamists that don't follow the rules.

[oldshirt]

 

Married women with permission ( and desire ) to prowl are highly marketable commodities, and find they have their choice of available men.

 

Married men out on the prowl are just creepy, and about as marketable as chewed bubblegum in comparison.

.

 

On that note I will agree with you. Open marriage greatly favors women and as I stated in a couple posts above, I personally do believe that in open marriages where the wife plays but the husband doesn't, there will be a disproportionate number of failed marriages.

 

 

I can't prove it and don't have any studies to back it up, but in my experience and observations in the swinging community, the couples where the wife was out partying and the husband was on the couch watching the game and eating Cheetos with his buddies, you could basically count down the days before she was packing up.

 

 

And marketable as chewed bubble gum is about right.

 

 

It's actually easier for a man to cheat at the office in the vanilla world, than it is to have to an ongoing side relationship with a decent woman in an open marriage.

 

 

That is exactly one of the reasons I do not believe that infidelity occurs more in swinging world. It's pragmatics. It is simply easier to cheat in the regular vanilla world. I know that seems counterintuitive but it is true.

[road]

Let's not forget that that we've all seen countless traditional marriages succumb to the same fate and the only rule they had was not to get involved with anyone else at all.

 

Let's not ignore that it is never wise to play with matches. Less wise to play with matches and gasoline.

 

 

Allowing a wife to have sex with OM makes her wonder does my husband not value me. Why does my husband not mate protect me?

 

 

Those the wife has been placed on the slippery slope to having an affair and the OM wanting her for his own works on those WW fears and works his way into replacing her BH full time.

 

 

This WW never wanted an open marriage. Her BH's great "Idea" got him cheated on, then divorced, then a part time father.

 

 

You confuse that open marriage worked for you and a select few ignores the fact that open marriages have caused many marriages to fail that would of never.

[Phoenician]

I like the concept and the fun ; never did it before .

 

It is a bit contradictory because it only works fine with partners who are really very honest to each other ;and very loyal to each other ( i.e not liers).

 

If the couple are really very compatible and adores each other ; why would they need a third party to mess up things ?

 

-for physical pleasure ?

-we are not just body and flesh , we are human charcterized by their emotions ; there is no happiness without emotions ; hence if we have emotions in swinging , cheating finds its way ...

 

 

on the other hand ; if two couples are perfectly honest and matching ; can they expect from each other givology in sex and pleas each other ?

 

Tha's my 2 cents ; maybe because I am deprived from so many things with my wife ; this makes me feel that i will be a king if I discover them with my wife ...

[oldshirt]

Let's not ignore that it is never wise to play with matches. Less wise to play with matches and gasoline.

 

 

Allowing a wife to have sex with OM makes her wonder does my husband not value me. Why does my husband not mate protect me?

 

 

Those the wife has been placed on the slippery slope to having an affair and the OM wanting her for his own works on those WW fears and works his way into replacing her BH full time.

 

 

This WW never wanted an open marriage. Her BH's great "Idea" got him cheated on, then divorced, then a part time father.

 

 

You confuse that open marriage worked for you and a select few ignores the fact that open marriages have caused many marriages to fail that would of never.

 

 

No I do not confuse that any form of open marriage will only work for a few.

 

In all the threads about swinging et al that I have commented on, I have clearly stated it is not for the vast majority and that only a pretty specific subset of couples should even consider it.

 

I am not familiar with the case you cite above but I can say right off the bat that it was doomed from the start since she was pushed into it from the beginning and did not want to do it.

 

I have not been advocating swinging for the masses. Nor have I said that it is without risk. I have only said it has no direct relationship with cheating and has no more and no less cheating than the general public

[jen1447]

hmmm.. Interesting - might debate that. In fact it has been mentioned in other topics.

 

I think you need to have a certain inherent sexual (mind set or something) to engage in this "lifestyle". It might be a choice, but maybe not - I think its one that requires a certain something inherent in the individual.

 

Is monogamy a choice ? or are some people simply wired for that sexual expression?

 

Its new world of terms and definitions these days.

 

Note moderating myself - I have drifted off topic. Sorry OP and Moderators. I will end this tangent.

 

Maybe, but for swinging to be an orientation you'd have to add it to the lexicon of existing orientations - straight, lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, swinger.

 

Polyamory isn't really an orientation either, but whereas swinging is mainly a sexual behavior, polyamory describes not just a behavior but what the ppl consider to be an identity based on biology. So not just a Mets fan, but a person who's biologically compelled to pursue multiple romantic interests and where that's the norm.

 

Anyway I have no dog in the swinging hunt - I'm not a swinger - I just wanted to caution you against conflating swinging with polyamory. You're liable to get some pretty unpleasant responses if you meet a poly 'triad' at a party and say "oh, so you're swingers."

[TrustedthenBusted]

 

Allowing a wife to have sex with OM makes her wonder does my husband not value me. Why does my husband not mate protect me?

 

I've always felt ( and experienced ) that if a man doesn't care if his woman is sleeping with someone else, he also doesn't care if she gets hit by a bus either.

 

Women don't seem to understand this one until the guy ( usually OM ) proves it.

[TrustedthenBusted]

We may have to agree to disagree on that. I simply do not believe that cheating is any more or any less prevalent in the swinging community than in the general population.

 

 

If anything I believe it is less but it does occur.

 

 

I hear ya. And you know more about it than I do. I am just thinking about the math. It seems hard enough for two people in a relationship to remain monogamous.

 

So now if I factor in 4 or 6 people - especially sexually liberated swinging people, many of whom got into the lifestyle JUST to get more strange booty - I just can't imagine that the odds of shenanigans don't go up.

[oldshirt]

I hear ya. And you know more about it than I do. I am just thinking about the math. It seems hard enough for two people in a relationship to remain monogamous.

 

So now if I factor in 4 or 6 people - especially sexually liberated swinging people, many of whom got into the lifestyle JUST to get more strange booty - I just can't imagine that the odds of shenanigans don't go up.

 

The difference you may not be factoring in is that getting strange is the point so there is no need for shenanigans or sneaking around. You just go to the party.

[TrustedthenBusted]

The difference you may not be factoring in is that getting strange is the point so there is no need for shenanigans or sneaking around. You just go to the party.

 

Right, but there are still rules no? You can be with THIS couple, not THAT couple, or THIS guy, but not THAT guy? You can be with THEM, but only when I'm there as well?

 

That sort of thing, yes?

 

I'm just saying if there are rules, they will eventually be broken by someone. And this particular crowd, to me, seems like one that doesn't like rules to begin with.

[oldshirt]

 

I'm just saying if there are rules, they will eventually be broken by someone. And this particular crowd, to me, seems like one that doesn't like rules to begin with.

 

I think this is what is at the heart of the debate here.

 

You and some others believe that swingers are inherently more prone to break rules and cheat.

 

My position is that swingers are no different from the rest of the human race and are no more and no less likely to cheat than anyone else.

 

People are people whether they are swingers or nonswingers.

 

Swinging and cheating are two different concepts and two different activities.

[TrustedthenBusted]

I think this is what is at the heart of the debate here.

 

You and some others believe that swingers are inherently more prone to break rules and cheat.

 

My position is that swingers are no different from the rest of the human race and are no more and no less likely to cheat than anyone else.

 

People are people whether they are swingers or nonswingers.

 

Swinging and cheating are two different concepts and two different activities.

 

I think fat people are more likely to cheat on their diets too. So it's along these lines that I base my suspicions.

[SammySammy]

I think fat people are more likely to cheat on their diets too. So it's along these lines that I base my suspicions.

 

Your premise is false.

 

A fat person more than likely wasn't on a diet when they ate and stored those excess calories. On a diet, their chances of cheating probably aren't much different from anyone else.

[central]

Right, but there are still rules no? You can be with THIS couple, not THAT couple, or THIS guy, but not THAT guy? You can be with THEM, but only when I'm there as well?

 

That sort of thing, yes?

 

I'm just saying if there are rules, they will eventually be broken by someone. And this particular crowd, to me, seems like one that doesn't like rules to begin with.

 

For some swingers, these rules may apply, but the USUAL swinging scenario is a couple playing with another couple, together. It is not usual for the vast majority to play separately from their spouse, so it is both unusual and difficult to break rules about who you play with unless you do cheat - and cheating is less common (based on peer-reviewed research, and my own limited observations) amongst swingers than the rest of the population. Opinions to the contrary are simply incorrect, or may be based on limited personal observations or personal bias that do not apply in general.

[TrustedthenBusted]

Your premise is false.

 

A fat person more than likely wasn't on a diet when they ate and stored those excess calories. On a diet, their chances of cheating probably aren't much different from anyone else.

 

Really? You don't think the history of poor eating habits and the lack of self control around temptation that lead to the need for the diet has any bearing on their chances of success? As a competitive athlete and former trainer, I assure you, it does.

 

I think Swinging is along similar lines. Clearly single-partner monogamy isn't enough, and the desire for multiple partners would need to be pretty strong to even get into that lifestyle, given the increased chances for STDs and unwanted pregnancies. So a history of avoiding sexual constraints, to me, would seem like something that would make it ever so much easier to tip toe across the line.

 

Again. I'm basing this on what I've seen, which has been a number of relationships fold over failed attempts at swinging. Maybe there is a larger number who are into it successfully and I just don't know it.

 

 

In any case, I don't judge anyone who wants and accepts that lifestyle. I can certainly appreciate the benefits. Who wouldn't?

 

I just struggle to believe that it's in any is morally or ethically superior to monogamy, or that it offers any layer of protection above a single-partner monogamous relationship as implied elsewhere in this thread.