Is anyone into The Swinging Lifestyle?

[Gemma1]

I agree with what you said but I can simplify it even more. People who don't think swinging is a good idea or for whom it offends their sensibilities or they think it is just plain wrong - don't do it.

 

 

The people who do want to do it and are ok with it - do.

 

 

99.99% of the population want nothing to do with it. And the 0.01% who do are fine with that and they have a whole lotta fun without the rest.

I completely agree. I just think there is a tiny subset of people (relative to the entire swinging population) who go into swinging *thinking* that they will be ok with it, only to find out later that they are the type of people to "catch feelings" too easily.

 

Some people just haven't had that experience of trying to separate sex and emotions and haven't realized what sort of person they are. For these types, swinging actually could lead to the demise of a relationship that may have otherwise been successful.

 

However, I think that sort of couple is pretty rare in the swinging community, despite Road's insistence otherwise. I just haven't seen these "countless couples" that are being mentioned as examples of the failures of swinging. What I have seen "countless" examples of are people literally ruining their lives trying to conform to the bounds of monogamy, and failing miserably.

[Arieswoman]

Gemma1,

 

What I have seen "countless" examples of are people literally ruining their lives trying to conform to the bounds of monogamy, and failing miserably.

 

I would say that "countless" is a bit of an exaggeration.

 

However, if it were true then it begs the question "why did they sign up for it in the first place?"

 

The problem here is not with monogamy but with some people.

 

All lifestyles have bounds/rules. From what I have read there are more "rules/agreements" in a swinging lifestyle than a monogamous one!

 

Surely the keyword is honesty.?

 

If people don't want monogamy then they don't have to sign up for it. If they sign up for it and can't stick to it then they should have an honest conversation with the other party. They should be honorable enough to give the partner informed choice to make a decision about staying, or leaving to have a monogamous relationship with someone else.

 

Unfortunately, some people want to have it both ways.

[dichotomy]

As one of them - I do think that people who are able (or prefer) to thrive sexually in exclusive long term monogamy are not a large percentage of the population. I do see people who thrive or are at least "ok" in monogamist relationships outside of sex (that is they thrive on other things in the marriage)....but actually thriving sexual in exclusive LTR/Marriage i think is not very common. That's my view only among friends and family I know.

 

 

One thing I though was interesting - I got into a debate once with someone who was into swinging (not here on LS) who kept saying "possessing" your spouses sexuality was not right, and freedom and yada yada.....when he finally admitted there was one or two sexual acts his wife was not allowed to do with other men. I said "ah - you do keep something special and exclusive sexually for just between you". It might not be sex, but I do kind of understand that that many swingers do feel they have something very special and strong with their spouse that can't be taken way even when having sex with others. I envy or admire what ever "that" is that they feel is unshakable and separate and theirs.

Edited April 16, 2016 by dichotomy

[Arieswoman]

dichotomy,

 

.but actually thriving sexual in exclusive LTR/Marriage i think is not very common. That's my view only among friends and family I know.

 

Unless you are a fly-on-the-wall I don't know how you can draw this conclusion?

[dichotomy]

dichotomy,

 

 

 

Unless you are a fly-on-the-wall I don't know how you can draw this conclusion?

 

 

I have close relationships with my large extended family all of whom have or had long marriages. I have one or two good friends that I talk deeply with who have been married for a while. Both my first and second marriages have gone 10+ years. I also read many posts on relationship boards. I talk with my therapist(s) who see alot of couples. I read books on sex and relationships.

 

I simply don't hear that often- the sex is as good as ever or better then before I got in to a LTR or married. Now I hear some very good stuff in marriages and LTR's.....but sexual thriving ? rarely.

 

I will say - that's just my experience and views - I dont say it is this way. I actually do thrive sexually in close intimate exclusive relationships and or marriage - the closer I am to someone the more i am will to engage and explore sexual expression. I just dont see it in others.

Edited April 16, 2016 by dichotomy

[Arieswoman]

Hmmmm,

Thanks for your response dichotomy,

 

Maybe you could define what you mean by "sexual thriving" and then I could understand better where you are coming from ?

 

I also find it intriguing that all these people you know are prepared to discuss their sex lives with you and you are interested in that?

 

Personally I don't give 2 flying bo££ock$ what people I know are up to in or out of bed, but maybe that's because I either move in different circles to you or I am a stuffy Brit

[dichotomy]

Hmmmm,

Thanks for your response dichotomy,

 

Maybe you could define what you mean by "sexual thriving" and then I could understand better where you are coming from ?

 

I also find it intriguing that all these people you know are prepared to discuss their sex lives with you and you are interested in that?

 

Personally I don't give 2 flying bo££ock$ what people I know are up to in or out of bed, but maybe that's because I either move in different circles to you or I am a stuffy Brit

 

Heck people talk sometimes about sex (well maybe not Brits ), Here in the USA some guys and girls have drinks with their pals - and maybe drop a few lines at their sex lives before, during and after marriage.

 

When I was going through my first wife's cheating and divorce - I was in lot of pain, my sisters, brother, late father and mother, and two close friends- opened up to me about their own marriages and live. Much much later in my now second marriage and coping with my wife's EA, and sexual decline - and thinking about divorce again these same family and friends stepped in to offer advice - most were "do not divorce her".

 

Also because of my current wife's sexual behaviors and veiws -and my confusion about what drives her desire - I spent alot of time with our marriage sex therapist, on LS, and reading books about peoples sexuality and life style choices and relationships.

[Arieswoman]

OK dichotomy, thanks for that and for going into stuff that is perhaps painful for you.

 

I look at it this way - and I am coming from a monogamous viewpoint.

 

Unless you are very, very, very, very lucky you are never going to find another human being that meets all your needs in a relationship. So you need to make decisions and prioritize about what you want/need, and what you want for them and from them.

 

I can think of guys that I had short relationships with, who were so hot sexually that I get wet now even thinking about them. But no way on God's earth would I want to marry them, or have an LTR with them because we were incompatible in other ways.

 

IMO life is all about compromises and making decisions that respect yourself and the other person. At the end of the day I think that nobody can have it all, in any relationship.

 

The best we can do is find a partner who can satisfy most of our needs and then find ways to satisfy the other bits outside of the relationship in a way that doesn't threaten the primary relationship.

 

I am a veggie, my husband isn't. I go to various veggie meeting where we cook, eat food, talk about recipes, and discuss Animal Rights. Once in a Blue Moon hubby will come and join in a veggie BBQ.

 

Horses for courses :)

[BettyDraper]

Using that nothing in life is risk free is false justifying to have an open marriage.

 

 

For open marriages have consistently shown that they are a high risk decision to take.

 

 

Reckless risk taking has nothing to do with morals.

 

Traditional marriage has a high rate of failure yet people do it every day.

 

It's funny that those who are so against swinging and open marriage have conveniently ignored the risks of monogamy and traditional marriages.

 

I understand that you're not going to change your stance. I just think that your reasoning is close minded and deeply flawed. My husband and I would never have an open marriage or swing but we don't sit on our high horse looking down on couples who engage in those activities.

[BettyDraper]

OK dichotomy, thanks for that and for going into stuff that is perhaps painful for you.

 

I look at it this way - and I am coming from a monogamous viewpoint.

 

Unless you are very, very, very, very lucky you are never going to find another human being that meets all your needs in a relationship. So you need to make decisions and prioritize about what you want/need, and what you want for them and from them.

 

I can think of guys that I had short relationships with, who were so hot sexually that I get wet now even thinking about them. But no way on God's earth would I want to marry them, or have an LTR with them because we were incompatible in other ways.

 

IMO life is all about compromises and making decisions that respect yourself and the other person. At the end of the day I think that nobody can have it all, in any relationship.

 

The best we can do is find a partner who can satisfy most of our needs and then find ways to satisfy the other bits outside of the relationship in a way that doesn't threaten the primary relationship.

 

I am a veggie, my husband isn't. I go to various veggie meeting where we cook, eat food, talk about recipes, and discuss Animal Rights. Once in a Blue Moon hubby will come and join in a veggie BBQ.

 

Horses for courses :)

 

I agree with this. I'll also add that some couples get their sexual needs met outside the marriage with consent of both partners and that's okay. We have no right to judge those couples or wag our fingers at them.

 

My husband is very introverted and I'm a social butterfly. I have a large network of friends and acquaintances. I don't expect my husband to join me on most outings. He will accompany me to events that require a date and be genial on the rare occasions that we entertain.

[oldshirt]

.

 

All lifestyles have bounds/rules. From what I have read there are more "rules/agreements" in a swinging lifestyle than a monogamous one!

 

Surely the keyword is honesty.?

 

 

 

This is often very true.

 

 

A traditional, monogamous couple will really have only one rule in regards to romantic/sexual expression with others and that is DON'T!

Some will follow that rule and abide by it, others won't.

 

 

Swingers on the other hand can have lots and lots of rules and conditions and environments and boundaries under which sexual conduct with others will and will not be allowed.

 

 

I've said it in other posts in this thread and in other threads, but it is easier to cheat than it is to swing. Swinging actually takes a lot of work and a lot of communication and a lot of compromise and balance. That's why there are more cheaters in the world than swingers.

 

 

The payoff for that effort is they are able to enjoy the sexual adventurism without the damage and pain and destruction that accompanies cheating.

 

 

Cheating is circumventing the rules for your own gain whether someone is a swinger or a monogamist and IMHO there's no relationship between swinging and cheating one way or another.

[oldshirt]

 

.....when he finally admitted there was one or two sexual acts his wife was not allowed to do with other men. I said "ah - you do keep something special and exclusive sexually for just between you". It might not be sex, but I do kind of understand that that many swingers do feel they have something very special and strong with their spouse that can't be taken way even when having sex with others. I envy or admire what ever "that" is that they feel is unshakable and separate and theirs.

 

 

 

When we were swinging, one of my slogans was, "I am a sexual swinger but an emotional monogamist."

 

 

It's not that I did not have sincere warmth and affections for my swing partners, but it was that my heart and my home and my family belonged to my marriage.

 

 

For me personally, I can have sex with just about anyone that is a decent person and is clean, attractive, not morbidly obese and with whom I have a mutual sexual chemistry and attraction. But my wife is the only one that I would have a home and family with and who I would take care of when she's sick or take care of elderly parents and share a mortgage and household bills and car payments etc etc.

 

 

I don't need those connections in order to have sex with someone, nor does having sex make me want to have those things with that particular person.

 

 

If people want to call that separation of sex and love, so be it.

[oldshirt]

IMO life is all about compromises and making decisions that respect yourself and the other person. At the end of the day I think that nobody can have it all, in any relationship.

 

The best we can do is find a partner who can satisfy most of our needs and then find ways to satisfy the other bits outside of the relationship in a way that doesn't threaten the primary relationship.

 

 

That is an excellent way to put that.

 

 

For us, inviting others into our marital bed did not threaten our primary relationship.

 

 

For others it might. If they think it would have a high risk of threatening their relationship, then they shouldn't do it.

[oldshirt]

 

It's funny that those who are so against swinging and open marriage have conveniently ignored the risks of monogamy and traditional marriages.

.

 

That's what I have been trying to say as well.

 

 

IMHO the work and effort and compromise and sacrifice of trying to maintain 40 years of monogamy, is going to be no less effort and have no less risk of cheating, chronic dissatisfacton or of the marriage dissolving, than swinging.

 

 

There are certainly no guarentees either way and I don't believe that at the end of the day, one is going to have any more or any less risk when you add everything up together.

 

 

It is going to come down to the individual temperments, beliefs and character of the individuals involved.

 

 

Most people have no interest and no desire in swinging. Some do.

 

 

The issue of cheating is it's own separate entity and that comes down to character. Cheaters are gonna cheat. and they are gonna cheat whether they are in a traditional marriage or in a swinging marriage.

 

 

People that respect their spouse and follow the rules established to protect the marriage will not cheat whether they are in a traditional marriage or a swinging marriage.

 

 

The mentality that people who swing are simply less moral and less ethical and less trustworthy than nonswingers, is prejudice and bigotry.

 

 

It is that prejudice, bigotry and judgmentalism is why swinging has been so underground for so long.

[dichotomy]

Interesting thought (hypothetical) on cheaters....in traditional marriages.

 

I wonder how many cheaters - having been caught by their spouse would agree to switch to swinging or open marriages at the request of the BS ? Not that I know of any BS's who's first response is "fine - lets open the sex up"

 

My guess is not many because cheating is about entitlement (cake eating) and selfishness.

[oldshirt]

Interesting thought (hypothetical) on cheaters....in traditional marriages.

 

I wonder how many cheaters - having been caught by their spouse would agree to switch to swinging or open marriages at the request of the BS ? Not that I know of any BS's who's first response is "fine - lets open the sex up"

 

My guess is not many because cheating is about entitlement (cake eating) and selfishness.

 

I think it happens.

 

 

there are definitely times the WS offers up swinging as an ultimatum that more less says, "either we open the marriage/swing or I am going to cheat behind your back anyway." We have seen that happen here on LoveShack so it does happen.

 

 

Those are the couples in the swinging world that blow up and rain down drama and dysfunction everywhere and make the headlines.

 

 

It does happen and it does create fireworks.

 

 

 

But I do agree with your last statement, I don't know if it happens a lot. At it's core, cheating is about selfishness and entitlement. Swinging requires a lot of compassion, respect, cooperation and compromise. All of those things are in very short supply in cheaters.

 

 

Cheaters don't want their spouse out having their fun too. Cheaters want their spouse home taking care of the home and family while they are out having fun.

[road]

Traditional marriage has a high rate of failure yet people do it every day.

 

It's funny that those who are so against swinging and open marriage have conveniently ignored the risks of monogamy and traditional marriages.

 

I understand that you're not going to change your stance. I just think that your reasoning is close minded and deeply flawed. My husband and I would never have an open marriage or swing but we don't sit on our high horse looking down on couples who engage in those activities.

 

 

 

Yes marriages fail. Open relationships make more marriage's fail.

 

 

It does not show wise judgment to do things that greatly increase the chance of a marriage failing such as having an open marriage.

[TrustedthenBusted]

Interesting thought (hypothetical) on cheaters....in traditional marriages.

 

I wonder how many cheaters - having been caught by their spouse would agree to switch to swinging or open marriages at the request of the BS ? Not that I know of any BS's who's first response is "fine - lets open the sex up"

 

My guess is not many because cheating is about entitlement (cake eating) and selfishness.

 

Had this conversation.

 

Told the WW at one point ( during the really difficult days post DDay ) that she should "now consider our marriage open"

 

She freaked out. Wasn't having it. Begged. Changed, etc etc...

 

She did not like even the THOUGHT of tasting her own medicine.

[jen1447]

Serial monogamists don't just change their values and become sexually liberal tho, so when those kind of ultimatums go down they're usually just a tacit way of saying "I'm going to violate our emotional bond and stab you in the heart," not "I want to see what other partners would be like." That can actually be perceived as worse than the original cheating in way bc it's a deliberate attempt to injure while generic cheating usually isn't. I think that's why the ppl who get these 'offers' tend to object so strenuously - it carries more weight than whatever damage their incidental cheating did in their eyes and it can signify the total dissolution of the marriage bond.

 

It wouldn't be that way if the offer was genuine but again I don't see many monogamous ppl just switching over for no particular reason other than the WS put the idea in their head. The ppl who open their marriages/relationships successfully are the ones who do it together going in.

[oldshirt]

Had this conversation.

 

Told the WW at one point ( during the really difficult days post DDay ) that she should "now consider our marriage open"

 

She freaked out. Wasn't having it. Begged. Changed, etc etc...

 

She did not like even the THOUGHT of tasting her own medicine.

 

Yup.

 

 

The last thing cheaters want is for their BS to have as much fun on the side as they had.

 

 

If you really want to drop a cheater in his/her tracks, the moment you discover the A say, "Awesome! I've been wanting to hook up with _______ at work and _______ at the gym for long time. I'll see you some time next week." And then trim your pubic region, leave the shavings on the shower floor for them to see and walk out the door.

[oldshirt]

Serial monogamists don't just change their values and become sexually liberal tho, so when those kind of ultimatums go down they're usually just a tacit way of saying "I'm going to violate our emotional bond and stab you in the heart," not "I want to see what other partners would be like." That can actually be perceived as worse than the original cheating in way bc it's a deliberate attempt to injure while generic cheating usually isn't. I think that's why the ppl who get these 'offers' tend to object so strenuously - it carries more weight than whatever damage their incidental cheating did in their eyes and it can signify the total dissolution of the marriage bond.

 

 

This is probably true, but the more simple explanation is simple selfishness. Cheaters want to be the one having the extra fun and they want their BS home waiting for them. They don't want them having the same fun they did. They don't want anyone touching their partner or their partner getting anything that they aren't. They want to be the one getting the extra fun on the side.

 

 

There are more cheaters in the world than there are swingers because people don't want to share their partner and they don't want their partner getting it on with anyone else.

 

 

Many cheaters would have strenuously declined an offer by the BS to open marriage/swinging even before the cheating occurred or was discovered.

[oldshirt]

.....I will go on to add that in my experience, the swinging community has a cultural ethos that looks down on cheating more and has less tolerance for cheating than the traditional vanilla community.

 

 

IMHO the traditional monogamous community in reality has more tolerance and more acceptance of cheating than does the swinging community.

 

 

I am not saying that cheating does not occur in the swinging community because it does.

 

 

What I am saying is that average Joe and Jane swinger that finds out about someone cheating on their spouse, is less tolerant and has less sympathy than the average monogamist.

 

 

I can identify with this attitude in my own marriage now. In the ten years of traditional marriage that we had before we got into swinging, it probably would have taken a lot for me to leave my wife. I probably would have tried to hang on and work through things and make the marriage work if she had cheated on me.

 

 

Now that we have experienced the swinging world, if I were to find out she was cheating on the side, I wouldn't even discuss it. I would be hurt and sad and disappointed of course. But I would also pack up my toys and go home without any discussion. If she can do basically whatever she wants within the ground rules of swinging and have whatever sexual experiences she wants to try with my consent and participation..... but still would rather see some OM on the down low behind my back, then there is no hope and no point in even trying.

 

 

I think many successful and happy swingers share a similar view and just shake their heads and roll their eyes when they find out about someone cheating.

 

 

You can just simply do so much in the swinging world, why risk it all for a side piece on the down low. It's dumb.

 

 

Yes swinging is more work and requires more balance and more cooperation and more communication and compassion. and I think it is for that reason that the swinging ethos is so anti-cheating. Cheating is easy. Cheating is selfish. Cheating is destructive and harmful to all.

 

 

Swinging is harder and more work but the payoff is huge. Cheating is easy but the damage left in its wake is huger. You can't respect that which comes easy but at the cost of destruction.

[oldshirt]

The ppl who open their marriages/relationships successfully are the ones who do it together going in.

 

And those are really the only ones that do achieve success and have a successful marriage in the lifestyle.

 

 

The ones that try to open their marriage after the betrayal or the ones that try to swing in an effort to head off cheating, spiral out of the sky and end up as a big smoking hole in the ground.

 

 

I'll be a broken record here but swinging/open marriage is not a therapy or preventative treatment for infidelity.

 

 

They are two completely different concepts from two different worlds.