Should I (32/M) divorce my emotionally unstable wife (34/F)?

[MarriageTroubles]

So let’s put all the cards on the table. My wife and I have been together 10 years, we met in college and got married 5 years ago. I didn’t have a happy childhood, but after meeting her really grew into myself, something I give her credit for. Now I’m 32 and she’s 34, we’re married, she doesn’t work by her own choice but I have a really good career going on, we have a 3 year old girl who is the center of our world. She is a stay at home mother, but I encourage her to go out and socialize with friends, and while I work 12/13 hour days, I help out at home and really enjoy spending time with my daughter (fun things, but also the chores). I do dishes, cook on weekends, and on Saturdays and Sundays we almost always go out with 3 of us to do things together. I have an active social life and think most other people, including my family, would characterize me as one of the most calm, grounded and loyal people they know. Everything should be going great, but somehow it’s not working.

 

My wife is not emotionally stable, and though I am no doctor I suspect she *might* have borderline personality disorder or at least some of the traits typically associated with that. She was raised in an abusive home, as an only child with parents who beat her and were constantly yelling at her and each other, scissors flying through the air and beatings being dished out, you get the idea. Father passed away some years back but her mother is simultaneously one of the vilest, emotionally manipulative and yet outwardly sweetest people you can come across, much like my wife herself but more extreme. To outsiders MIL will be extremely sweet, but when you get home she starts barking abuse at whoever will hear it. My wife is an angry person to her core, doesn’t handle stress well, has frequent mood swings, feels “empty” and has a lack of interests. We have little to talk about as a starting point, and that is exacerbated by the fact that her mood swings have gradually closed me down towards her. Her mood swings have gotten worse as the years passed by.

 

My wife, like her mother she can be the sweetest thing you ever came across if you only meet her briefly at a social event. But when you’re alone with her a frown shows up on her forehead that doesn’t recede for the rest of the day, anything that doesn’t go her way annoys her and the world is her enemy. She talks at me in an aggressive tone, picks fights for no reason, and when she finally has pressed my buttons repeatedly and I (still calmly) tell her to just leave me alone, she will really freak out. She will then stay up late at night to write me pages long emails full of accusations and emotional guilt trips (“your daughter will find out what a horrible person you are if you keep this up” etc.). I feel at the other end of a sustained emotional attack and often feel at breaking point.

 

She can can start a fight with people walking too slowly in the street, or get confrontational with a person in public transport out of nowhere. It can be an ex girlfriend from 15 years ago who I have never spoken to since then wishing me a happy birthday on my Facebook wall (apparently sufficient reason to tell me she’s a “goddamn f'ing bitch” and leave passive aggressive responses - mind you I have been a loyal dog for 10 years, we have NEVER had any issues in that area, and it’s totally uncalled for). There are lots of guilt trips any time something doesn’t go her way.

 

She has sowed distrust between me and my family. She comes from a family full of fights and she projects that on my own. She once sent my mother an email with complaints about things that I had told my wife about my relationship with them in the most intimate moments, and she decided to pick a fight with my mother about it. I was mortified about the breach of trust and things with my family have been worse since. She has argued with my sisters for small reasons, and every time we go back for the holidays I feel under high pressure to keep her absolutely satisfied and looked after, or else she will kick up a fuss for some reason or another, or run some kind of guilt trip and my family’s holidays could be ruined.

 

Whenever we go through a major change in life, whether that is moving or me starting a new job, or even when we are just going out to an event or heading to the airport to go on holiday, at the moment that I most need her to be a calm person to rely on, she never is and she creates the biggest fights. Forcing me to pacify her and give in to whatever she demands. Those moments are the worst and have scarred me, making me feel like I can never count on her when I need to.

 

Finally, she frequently threatens me with divorce. She is well aware that this is my biggest nightmare as it would mean admitting failure in the relationship (which I probably should have admitted years ago but alas). She goes back to “I love you so much and don’t know what I would do without you” within hours, a constant back and forth, but she uses this as a way of getting me to give in to her. During her bad moments she accuses me of being a bad husband, a bad father for anything where we disagree.

 

And now.. I am drained. I am an emotionally stable/stoic person. I love her and think she is a good mother, but the emotional rollercoaster is getting too much for me. I feel like I am walking on eggshells to keep the peace. I think many men would have quit years ago if they were in my shoes, and if I were a little bit less stoic myself this would have been a fighting and shouting marriage. A while back she did the threatening divorce thing again and I decided to step into the ring and say: since you keep bringing it up, let’s really discuss this shall we? That terrified her, and since then she has been really struggling and trying her best to keep things good between us. Whereas for her this was probably a game of emotional control as she knew I desperately did not want my marriage to fail and knew to fall back when she did that, I am now really in that place. I fear for my marriage and my daughter who does not deserve to suffer because of my own poor choice for a spouse. I don’t want society to see me as a failure, but I am deeply unhappy, feel like I have checked out of my marriage already and don’t think I love my wife anymore.

 

What has made this worse, though is by no means more than a side story here (I hope), is that recently, out of nowhere, there has been a girl (28/F) at work who has been crushing pretty hard on me and if I am totally honest vice versa. For 10 years I have not even looked or thought about another woman, but at the darkest moment in my marriage she had to show up. She knows I am married, as I mention my wife and daughter. She has never made an inappropriate pass or comment, and neither have I. She is making an active effort to avoid me and seems pained by the whole thing, as am I. But we run into each other around office and have small chat, and you know how they say sparks fly? Well things between us are electric unlike anything I’ve ever encountered before, it’s super awkward in a kind of 15 year old kids liking each other kind of way. We are just frozen when we see each other, super awkward and not in an inappropriate flirting kind of way.

 

While I am realistic enough not too dwell on that colleague too much, it does make me realize that if we indeed wanted to divorce, I could make a new start and would probably not have any trouble finding some one new. It is certainly not helping me find the energy to repair my marriage. But should I still want to repair my marriage? Thoughts?

[elaine567]

What has made this worse, though is by no means more than a side story here (I hope), is that recently, out of nowhere, there has been a girl (28/F) at work who has been crushing pretty hard on me and if I am totally honest vice versa. For 10 years I have not even looked or thought about another woman, but at the darkest moment in my marriage she had to show up.

 

Oh dear!

........

[Hopeful714]

I think you are going to have to pick a time to have a big pow wow with your wife and insist counseling. Marital, and/or individual as well.

 

Your post sounds sincere, and you seem troubled by a situation that doesn't sound like it will get better on its own.

 

The girl at work is an eye opener to you that you ARE in a not very happy situation, but what you both are experiencing there is an attraction or lust. Nothing more, nothing less. You two don't know each other and you need to keep it that way. If it became "emotional" you would be sabotaging any efforts to fix your marriage.

 

Again, insist on the counseling. Make it clear to your wife that if things don't improve, you can't continue in the marrige and see if she is willing and able to see the problems, and work towards correcting them. Give it 6 months to a year. If there is no improvement leave.

 

You are young. Time goes by quickly. Don't stick around in a toxic relationship. It will only end up making you sick and miserable.

[salparadise]

I feel like I am walking on eggshells to keep the peace.

 

A while back she did the threatening divorce thing again and I decided to step into the ring and say: since you keep bringing it up, let’s really discuss this shall we? That terrified her, and since then she has been really struggling and trying her best to keep things good between us. Whereas for her this was probably a game of emotional control

 

But should I still want to repair my marriage? Thoughts?

 

Damn! You described my 23 year marriage to the letter. Based on your description I'd say your assessment is probably accurate. I'm not going to write a novel here, just give you a few insights and recommendations. These are not willy-nilly top-of-the-head - they're based on lot of experience.

 

• You can't fix it––or her.
  
• The patterns are pervasive, inherent to the core personality.
  
• You have to establish firm boundaries, and she's not going to be happy about it.
  
• Quit appeasing- it's enabling.
  
• As you give up little pieces of yourself, over time you become diminished.
  
• The chances of you remaining emotionally healthy and while having a close, functional marital relationship are pretty close to zero.
  

 

You need to buy a copy of Stop Walking on Eggshells.

[Downtown]

Troubles, I agree with everything Sal suggested with regard to your W's BPD traits. I also agree with Hopeful that you likely should divorce if your W actually has strong BPD traits and is unwilling to work hard in individualized therapy to control those traits. In any event, do what is in the best interests of your young daughter.

 

As an initial matter, however, I want to ask how a 32 year old H in a five-year toxic marriage acquired such an amazing awareness of the list of defining traits for BPD? Granted, it was easy for you to spot symptoms such as temper tantrums, irrational jealousy, impulsiveness, verbal abuse, and rapid flips between adoring you and hating you. Indeed, you would have to be deaf, dumb, and blind not to spot those symptoms in someone you've lived with for five years. Most people, however, don't realize that this pattern of behaviors is called "BPD traits." My question, then, is how did you learn that these traits are on the list of BPD defining symptoms?

 

My wife is not emotionally stable, and though I am no doctor I suspect she *might* have borderline personality disorder or at least some of the traits typically associated with that.

Troubles, there is no reason to feel defensive about your ability to spot BPD traits. Diagnosis, however, is far more difficult to do. Indeed, it is so difficult that no doctor or psychologist on the planet is doing a real diagnosis of BPD or any other PD. That would require them to identify its cause, which is still unknown and unproven. All discussions of BPD symptoms, then, are simply discussions about symptoms, not diagnosis.

 

Importantly, you don't go to a medical doctor to be told what symptoms you have. Instead, YOU tell the doctor all about your symptoms. Indeed, the first thing the doctor will ask is what symptoms you've had, how severe they are, and how long they have been occurring. Similarly, when you go to an auto repair shop, you don't go to be told about your car's symptoms. Rather, the repairman asks YOU what problems the car is exhibiting. He then diagnoses the problems to tell you the underlying cause.

 

Hence, whereas diagnosing a cause is the province of professionals, describing and identifying symptoms is the province of laymen (i.e., the client seeking help). Your being able to spot strong occurrences of these symptoms does not enable you -- or any psychologist -- to diagnose what it is that causes these behaviors. With regard to personality disorders, for example, psychologists still are unable to perform a true "diagnosis" -- not in the way that term is used in every field of the medical sciences. Psychology is not yet sufficiently advanced to be able to determine what it is that causes a PD to develop. If you're interested, I discuss the world of difference between "spotting symptoms" and "making a diagnosis" at Diagnosis vs Symptoms.

 

My wife, like her mother she can be the sweetest thing you ever came across if you only meet her briefly at a social event.

If she is a BPDer (i.e., has strong and persistent BPD traits), this behavior is what you should expect. The vast majority of BPDers -- even those exhibiting full-blown BPD -- are high functioning, which means they typically do not exhibit their BPD traits to casual friends, business associates, or total strangers -- because none of those people have drawn sufficiently close to trigger the BPDer's two great fears: abandonment and engulfment.

 

Like your W, my BPDer exW was so warm and friendly that total strangers would quickly be drawn to her after speaking with her for only a few minutes. Yet, if any of them made the mistake of becoming a close friend, she would eventually start a fight with them -- over nothing at all -- to push them away.

 

Should I still want to repair my marriage? Thoughts?

In addition to the thoughts offered above, I suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and your young daughter are dealing with (and her risk of repeating those behaviors). If you're interested in reading about my 15 years of experience with my BPDer exW, you may want to take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs and my more detailed description in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings any bells, I would be glad to join Sal and the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, Troubles.

[Mr. Lucky]

So let’s put all the cards on the table. My wife and I have been together 10 years, we met in college and got married 5 years ago.

 

How on earth did you marry this woman after 5 years together ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[Winterina]

May I ask what is it that she calls you bad husband for?

Maybe she needs a job and friends and her own life outside of family...

[ShatteredLady]

PLEASE, Please, please avoid this woman at work like the plague!! For a start you don't know her...she could be MORE emotionally damaged than your wife!!

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not accusing you of anything inappropriate. You're so vulnerable to an affair at the moment & it's the most TERRIBLE thing you could possibly do. No matter how bad your wife is you will automatically become the 'bad guy', worse 'the monster' in your marriage AND it will cause the 3 of you untold pain.

 

Sorry, I had to reinforce that.

 

You sound like a lovely man who's already suffered a world of hurt. As others have said...

 

Experienced Psychiatrist

Set Time Limit to TRULY work on your marriage (1 year?)

 

I know you're trying to do 'the right thing' but constant abuse can kill a little bit of you everyday. Protect your baby daughter. You can divorce AND be a fantastic Dad!

 

I wish you & your family all the best & I'm so sorry that you're suffering.

 

May I ask... Has she always been like this or did her behavior get a lot worse after she gave birth to your daughter?

Edited April 10, 2016 by ShatteredLady

[salparadise]

While I am realistic enough not too dwell on that colleague too much, it does make me realize that if we indeed wanted to divorce, I could make a new start and would probably not have any trouble finding some one new. It is certainly not helping me find the energy to repair my marriage. But should I still want to repair my marriage? Thoughts?

 

 

I am hesitant to advise anyone to divorce. That's a decision that you have to arrive at yourself, and all we have is your first post. But I can tell you a few things that may be relevant to making decisions. Also, look at the links that Downtown posted and read the existing threads on BPD.

 

Yes, as downtown suggested, you should definitely be seeing a psychologist. There are a number of reasons to do this (now). It will be a revelation. It's important regardless of future decisions.

 

If your wife does have borderline personality disorder, staying in the marriage is going to mean dedicating your life to managing the disorder, and it will preclude having a normal, happy, stable relationship. That's the reality, because there is no pill or treatment or anything else that will fundamentally change the challenges you're facing. There is only the possibility of lessening the severity somewhat, and that's only if she were to commit to long-term psychiatric treatment, and if she stays in treatment (most do not).

 

Doing what's best for your daughter... it's not a given that staying is the best thing to do for your daughter. You can certainly be a good, effective parent either way, and it's probable that what's best for you is best for your daughter as well. If the marriage is not healthy, it's not going to be a good environment for her. Being a good parent starts with being your best self. It will be better for your daughter to have at least one happy, healthy, stable parent than to be trapped in a toxic environment.

 

You're going to need all of your faculties to deal with the marital situation, so don't complicate matters by engaging with the coworker. You are right to simply let it be an indication that possibilities will present themselves in the future.

 

Hope some of this is helpful to you.

Edited April 10, 2016 by salparadise

[mightycpa]

Wait until she gets a hair up her ass and decides to take your kid and disappear for a while... probably at a time that coincides with a major family event, like a wedding or a funeral or something. One where you will have to choose.

 

At a minimum, install a GPS tracker on her car. It will save you hours/days of panicked wondering one day.

[mellywell]

First things first. Look REEEAAAL hard at your assessment of your wife and ask yourself is the young things you are striking up an emotional affair with at work might be coloring that assessment.

 

Second, if she is so awful, why did you marry her after 5 years and why have kids with her?

 

Third, if you are using webMD to diagnose her, stop that and encourage her to go to a psychologist. They are the only ones who can diagnose her. I once had a friend with cancer, and I can't diagnose cancer. I dated someone with epilepsy, and I cannot diagnose epilepsy. "I was married to a" is NOT a psychology degree.

 

Fourth, have strong boundaries. Don't participate in her crazy dance. When she goes all circular and angry, tell her you will talk when you can both be calm, and walk away. You do NOT have to stay and subject yourself to that.

[renaissancewoman]

What have you specifically done to act out love for your wife. I think people really need to understand that love is not a feeling. It's not an emotion. It is an act. Which means it requires you to do things that show how much you love them.

 

Have you ever read Love and Respect? It's a great book and I think you and your wife will find it helpful. The thing is I think we know that love should be unconditional. But I don't think we think of respect as unconditional. From what you've described, and I'm not sure how tainted your assessment of your wife is because of this OW, you suffer from a lack of respect from your wife. Which is, I believe is just as big an offense as the unlove you obviously feel for her at the moment.

 

First, stay away from this OW. Do not even think about your unhappiness as a justification to act on your feelings for her.

 

Second, LOVE your wife. Even if she doesn't deserve it. Even if you have to fake it at first. See how she reacts if you meet her negativity with love and kindness. Give it a month. Tell her how much she means to your family. How much she means to you. Do it every day. Hold her 5 seconds longer everyday. Linger in a kiss longer. See how she softens when you take little acts that remind her that she's on your mind.

 

Third, read Love and Respect. Read anything about how to be a better husband. You can't control how she treats you. But you can control how you treat her. And maybe your actions will cause a change in her that would make respect grow from her.

[standtall]

I'm usually not one to advocate divorces, but it may end up in that.

 

With that being said, you are however, obligated to help her through this as part of your wedding vows...you now that pesky part about through sickness and in health. Well she aint sounding too healthy right now, and my recommendation is you demand from her that you both do a mental health screening and then go from there.

[salparadise]

I'm usually not one to advocate divorces, but it may end up in that.

 

With that being said, you are however, obligated to help her through this as part of your wedding vows...you now that pesky part about through sickness and in health. Well she aint sounding too healthy right now, and my recommendation is you demand from her that you both do a mental health screening and then go from there.

 

No, he is not. For one thing, there is no through it––that would be the equivalent of volunteering to serve a life sentence for a crime he didn't commit. He can't fix it, the psychologists can't fix it. He can't save her but he can save himself, and he should... because he has a young daughter who needs a stable, healthy father and because we only get once shot at this life. He can and should be fair and compassionate.

[wmacbride]

I would highly suggest that the two of you get an appointment with a qualified therapist, not just a counselor.

 

Counselors are great, but if you feel there could be mental health/ personality issues at play, you need more than just a listening ear. I sounds like there is a whole lot going on, and simply labeling it as "borderline personality disorder" at this point is probably not helpful.

 

A therapist will be able to give you both some clarity, and figure out what your next steps are. If that means staying married, they can help with that, and if that means ending your marriage, they can also help with that.

[mellywell]

No, he is not. For one thing, there is no through it––that would be the equivalent of volunteering to serve a life sentence for a crime he didn't commit. He can't fix it, the psychologists can't fix it. He can't save her but he can save himself, and he should... because he has a young daughter who needs a stable, healthy father and because we only get once shot at this life. He can and should be fair and compassionate.

 

He does not have to help her through anything, but he probably SHOULD stop fantasizing about his lady coworker while he is still married, would you not agree?

[TrustedthenBusted]

...For 10 years I have not even looked or thought about another woman, but at the darkest moment in my marriage she had to show up.

 

Dude, that's not how it works. First, you hit the dark times, and THEN you start noticing the attractive available ladies in your orbit. They've always been there. It's you who have changed, and are now seeing (seeking ) them.

 

 

Start there.

[standtall]

No, he is not.

 

Yes he is according to the word "vow". I don't know what end of town you're from, but I take my wedding vows serious...along with honor, integrity, and sacrifice. He needs to put in an "A" game effort to fix this before calling it quits.

[ShatteredLady]

I had an appointment with my doctor. He was joking that his least favorite sentences start with, "I was looking on the Internet....".

 

I do worry. It just seems that every other tired mother has fibromyalgia & every other person is being accused of having a personality disorder....

 

If you're really worried see a specialist & get a proper diagnosis.

[Emilia]

Yes he is according to the word "vow". I don't know what end of town you're from, but I take my wedding vows serious...along with honor, integrity, and sacrifice. He needs to put in an "A" game effort to fix this before calling it quits.

 

Then you are looking at relationships and marriages completely the wrong way. There is a young child involved, the OP has to do what's best for the child. Not to worry about stick-in-the mud marriage vows that don't take mental illness into account. We are not looking for martyrs here.

[renaissancewoman]

Then you are looking at relationships and marriages completely the wrong way. There is a young child involved, the OP has to do what's best for the child. Not to worry about stick-in-the mud marriage vows that don't take mental illness into account. We are not looking for martyrs here.

 

I'm sorry, but isn't "in sickness and in health" somewhere in marriage vows? I mean maybe if people didn't look at marriage vows as stick-in-the-mud there wouldn't be so many affairs.

 

To be fair, I think that OP is obviously in a lot of hurt and mental health is a serious issue. But he then mentioned that he has an attraction to a co-worker. I don't really care how emotionally abusive your wife is or how much hurt there is in your marriage, that is not an excuse to start an affair with another woman. If your marriage is truly over, then do what's necessary to end it before pursuing another relationship. This man is obviously on the verge of having an affair and he is going to use his unhappy marriage as his justification for it.

[salparadise]

Yes he is according to the word "vow". I don't know what end of town you're from, but I take my wedding vows serious...along with honor, integrity, and sacrifice. He needs to put in an "A" game effort to fix this before calling it quits.

 

Eh, those are your values. Mine (and most others) don't include abuse and destructive behavioral or personality disorders. Maybe you'll get your chance to make the big sacrifice, then you can come back on here and proselytize some more. You continue saying he should try to "fix it." That's more revealing that you even know.

[dreamingoftigers]

Oh dear!

........

 

I was waiting for the other girl to show up.

 

Things are never so bad as when there's opportunity.

 

I'm not saying things aren't bad. I'm just saying that it's pretty typical for many people to finally acknowledge them when they start comparing their real life with the fantasy of "what could be if my wife conveniently fell off cliff."

 

Don't go there.

 

Have you tried counseling or, well, anything besides walking on eggshells?

 

It gets rough (ask me how I know) and it can be scary to stand up to a bully, and even more so if that bully is your spouse. But I honestly think it's generally necessary.

 

Another option is to go (BOTH of you) to an Amen Brain Clinic. You present her as really unbalanced. There might be a reason for that.

 

A few years ago I was given Wellbutrin as an anti-depressant and it made me RAGE like a lunatic. I had to discontinue it. What it did though was give me a little empathy for my father who is always on edge and VERY snappy. Naturally, I don't come by that trait (except when pregnant, and on Loveshack ). But just shifting a few chemicals made me really "off" comparatively.

[ShatteredLady]

Oh goodness me. I've tried some medications (Lyrica, Savella etc) that have made me CRAZY!!

 

It does make me wonder... If a few chemicals can mess with my brain THAT MUCH even when I know it's the medications that are doing it to me...what must it be like to live with a chemical imbalance?

 

Interesting!

 

Of course personality disorders are so popular at the moment that some will say "....but meds could never help her!".

 

 

I've been completely overwhelmed lately (surprise!!) & when I take anxiety medication I can usually feel my brain slow down.

 

As I said, see a SPECIALIST & get a real diagnosis. I say specialist because it feels like GP's often just hand out antidepressants & they turn my H into a monster (or at least they're part of it).

[salparadise]

I do worry. It just seems that every other [...] other person is being accused of having a personality disorder....

 

If you're really worried see a specialist & get a proper diagnosis.

 

No, not every other. He's the one who first posited that it might be, not another forum member, then he supported it by enumerating behaviors that are consistent.

 

The prevalence of personality disorders in the US population is 9.1 percent according to NIMH, and of BPD specifically 1.4 percent. These are diagnosed. Who knows how many are undiagnosed given their resistance. 10 percent of people who present for outpatient psychiatric treatment have BPD according to NEA-BPD, and 18 million Americans overall (5.9 percent). Plus most of those diagnoses are comorbid with other personality or psychiatric disorders. It is by no means a rarely occurring disorder that we'd be unlikely to encounter.

 

Given that this is a forum about relationship issues, it's reasonable that the incidence would be even higher here, but I doubt that it is.

 

Regardless, it doesn't matter if she's officially diagnosed or not. She's exhibiting the behaviors consistent with the disorder, and the behaviors are what a person in relationship with a subject can't tolerate, as opposed to the diagnosis itself which is just a word.

 

It's really not helpful at all to shame people suffering from the fallout for using the word to communicate during the process of seeking help and information. Perhaps you'd like to try something constructive to help the OP?