I can't figure out why I keep getting rejected

[Justanaverageguy]

Nice subtle brag in the last three lines.

Good post though, so how does the OP connect with ladies?

 

It definitely wasn't always like that. I was quite shy and a bit of a clutz with the ladies in my teens early 20s. Age brings wisdom as they say. You live, you learn from your mistakes and you get better. I think mainly it's just a confidence thing. It's always hard in the beginning until you start to get some wins under your belt.

 

Most guys I meet now trying to pick up girls tend to swing between 2 extremes of either being too nice and accommodating and/or shy .... Or alternatively being too direct and overtly coming onto girls in a kind of sleazy player way. Basically trying to hard to impress or get a number immediately.

 

I personally just keep it relaxed, fun and try and talk to the girl withou expectations. I'm pretty friendly and outgoing so I just be me. Literally keep it that simple. No magic recipe. Just take the pressure off and get to know the girl. See if we click and figure out if I like her enough to ask her out in the first place. If there is chemistry there it makes it a lot easier to be funny, confident and flirty - it comes naturally. If you try to immediately force that with every girl it tends to come off forced and fake. For me it's so much easier to chat to a girl at the gym if your aim is simply to talk to her and not get her number - no pressure, you can be a bit more casual and fun if your not aiming for anything other then a chat. Your not focused on trying to direct the conversation, impress her or "close the deal".

 

I think the OP needs to just work on that. Just talking to girls in a fun, friendly relaxed way without putting pressure on himself. Once you get a girl to like you she will actually think your nervous clutz attempt to ask her out is charming instead of creepy

Edited April 12, 2016 by Justanaverageguy

[SammySammy]

Wow - well to be honest I think you are focusing on the wrong thing anyway. Putting the cart before the horse as they say.

 

You seem to be focusing on: "how to get a girl to say yes to a date"

When what you should be doing is actually focusing on: How to connect with women and develop a connection where you get them to like you and be interested in you and attracted to you.

 

They are connected but not the same thing. If you can do the later one well the first one takes care of itself. All you seem to care about is getting a "yes" but you seem to have very limited interest in actually developing the relationship, conversation, banter with the girl before hand. Approaching a random girl - or even one you have met before - without any of these is quite simply pointless. These days because I've become comfortable talking with women, enjoy the process and spend time developing the relationship, flirting, chatting etc - I often actually get girls asking me out directly or "suggesting" I should ask them out. You don't even have to ask them if you work on the important part

 

The difference between guys who are always rejected and guys who are rarely rejected.

 

It's interesting that so many people have been telling these guys the same thing in different ways over and over again.

 

Excellent post, by the way.

[ZA Dater]

It definitely wasn't always like that. I was quite shy and a bit of a clutz with the ladies in my teens early 20s. Age brings wisdom as they say. You live, you learn from your mistakes and you get better. I think mainly it's just a confidence thing. It's always hard in the beginning until you start to get some wins under your belt.

 

Most guys I meet now trying to pick up girls tend to swing between 2 extremes of either being too nice and accommodating and/or shy .... Or alternatively being too direct and overtly coming onto girls in a kind of sleazy player way. Basically trying to hard to impress or get a number immediately.

 

I personally just keep it relaxed, fun and try and talk to the girl withou expectations. I'm pretty friendly and outgoing so I just be me. Literally keep it that simple. No magic recipe. Just take the pressure off and get to know the girl. See if we click and figure out if I like her enough to ask her out in the first place. If there is chemistry there it makes it a lot easier to be funny, confident and flirty - it comes naturally. If you try to immediately force that with every girl it tends to come off forced and fake. For me it's so much easier to chat to a girl at the gym if your aim is simply to talk to her and not get her number - no pressure, you can be a bit more casual and fun if your not aiming for anything other then a chat. Your not focused on trying to direct the conversation, impress her or "close the deal".

 

I think the OP needs to just work on that. Just talking to girls in a fun, friendly relaxed way without putting pressure on himself. Once you get a girl to like you she will actually think your nervous clutz attempt to ask her out is charming instead of creepy

 

A lot of good advice here. Its so easy to type those things but very hard to actually do them. What is chemistry?

 

 

Id say confidence is developed through wins, if you don't get any well then confidence is going to be super low, seems to be something many of us battle with.

 

 

You also don't mention the pressure other put on perpetually unsuccessful people, that doesn't help matters either.

 

 

The result of constant rejection is not a pretty one from an emotional point of view, hence me saying the OP needs to keep his head up, I'll happily admit I feel cr*p almost everyday because I can just never get any dating to work, I wish I could get one win but winning lottery numbers would be easier.

 

 

I come off as desperate, perhaps the OP does to, but how does one guard against this, what are the signs to avoid?

 

 

Is being shy considered a negative and if so why?

[you_can_not_see_me]

Maybe I have been going about this wrong.

 

I have always held this idea that romantic interest is mainly based on physical attraction, a woman would immediately know if she's interested in dating a guy or not. Of course a major part of this belief is based on how my own attraction works, and I always assumed it would be the same process for women as well.

 

So I always figured the decisions was already made in women's mind and all I needed to do was ask them out and they would reveal if they were interested or not. I thought trying to connect much before the initial ask out is just not very good investment, because the girl might not be interested and I would have wasted my time connecting with someone who doesn't like me in a romantic way.

 

But it seems like you guys are implying that even a woman who might be physically attracted to a guy needs to make a connection with the guy to be willing to go out. And I guess that's not something I considered.

[Justanaverageguy]

A lot of good advice here. Its so easy to type those things but very hard to actually do them. What is chemistry?

 

Id say confidence is developed through wins, if you don't get any well then confidence is going to be super low, seems to be something many of us battle with.

 

You also don't mention the pressure other put on perpetually unsuccessful people, that doesn't help matters either.

 

I come off as desperate, perhaps the OP does to, but how does one guard against this, what are the signs to avoid?

 

 

I personally don't think anything that I outlined above is actually really that hard - even if you are shy its doable. Essentially all I said was to talk to girls like real people and focus on the conversation \ relationship side first instead of the pushing for getting them to commit to dates. The problem is you are nervous talking to girls so you need to work on that. And look I'm pretty laid back but still every now and then you get a girl who stops you in your tracks and your left fumbling like an idiot. Happens to us all - girls unfortunately have that effect sometimes

 

If you don't find it easy to meet girls put yourself in situations where you will come into contact with them and start practicing what I said. The idea is to get comfortable with it so you actually enjoy the process of talking to girls and aren't completely clammed up or nervous. Join meetup groups or something that put you in contact with people. I mean because honestly what do you intend to do with the girl if she says yes to your request for a date ? You have to sit down and talk to her, chat and flirt eventually so why not get a head start before hand

 

As for how to guard against looking desperate I was actually talking to a couple of female friends about this the other night. Couple of guys in our friend group tend to come off that way and particularly focus on these two girls. The general signs are:

- Asking girls out without doing the aforementioned ground work with them to build a rapour. It comes off as weird\desperate.

- Repeatedly asking them out even when they have said no or had a conversation with you saying they weren't interested.

- Asking multiple girls out in the friend group - especially if you seem to just move from one to the next when you get a no. This not only makes you look desperate it makes the girls think you are a bit of a douche.

- Being overly available and focusing on the girl to much. Following them like a lost puppy.

- Being overly handsy or invading the personal space with girls and force contact when its clearly not welcome. There are signs when a girl wants this to happen.

- Becoming overly jealous when if the girl talks to another guy even though you haven't established anything with her.

 

I think it also just comes across in your energy and the subtle ways you interact with people. Its a tough one - the best way to not be desperate is to be happy with yourself - hard to fake.

 

 

Is being shy considered a negative and if so why?

 

Totally depends on the girl and also how shy you are. Some girls it would be a turn off they like confident outgoing people. Some girls like shy sensitive guys - probably a little rarer but they are definitely out there.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Justanaverageguy

[Justanaverageguy]

Maybe I have been going about this wrong.

 

I have always held this idea that romantic interest is mainly based on physical attraction, a woman would immediately know if she's interested in dating a guy or not. Of course a major part of this belief is based on how my own attraction works, and I always assumed it would be the same process for women as well.

 

So I always figured the decisions was already made in women's mind and all I needed to do was ask them out and they would reveal if they were interested or not. I thought trying to connect much before the initial ask out is just not very good investment, because the girl might not be interested and I would have wasted my time connecting with someone who doesn't like me in a romantic way.

 

But it seems like you guys are implying that even a woman who might be physically attracted to a guy needs to make a connection with the guy to be willing to go out. And I guess that's not something I considered.

 

I'm not trying to be mean but I literally laughed out loud reading this. Physical attraction is the starting point - Yes. It is important - there will be some girls that your physical appearance immediately rules you out. Others they are attracted to you. Others they are on the fence. If you are a 10/10 CK model you could probably get away with just cold approaching anyone with no game or prior connection with the girl. For the rest of us Yes the connection and impression you make with the girl matters

 

You could say the "better" and more confident you become the less time you maybe need to establish the initial connection with the girl. Even the pick up guy who cold approaches and only spends 2-3 mins with the girl. Some of her decision is based on his looks - but really most is based on what he says and the way he interacts with her.

 

You are not at that stage of doing cold approaches and getting dates off a 2-3 min interaction. You need to learn to talk to the girls in a comfortable confident manner first. Work on that.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Justanaverageguy

[PinkElephants]

I have always held this idea that romantic interest is mainly based on physical attraction, a woman would immediately know if she's interested in dating a guy or not. Of course a major part of this belief is based on how my own attraction works, and I always assumed it would be the same process for women as well.

 

So I always figured the decisions was already made in women's mind and all I needed to do was ask them out and they would reveal if they were interested or not. I thought trying to connect much before the initial ask out is just not very good investment, because the girl might not be interested and I would have wasted my time connecting with someone who doesn't like me in a romantic way.

 

But it seems like you guys are implying that even a woman who might be physically attracted to a guy needs to make a connection with the guy to be willing to go out. And I guess that's not something I considered.

As a woman, I know immediately if I'm sexually attracted to a guy but whether or not he's a boyfriend, a one night stand, or rejected depends on his personality.

 

Try not to look at is as an investment or a waste of time. Investments are made with expectations. You invest money and expect more later; invest time and expect sex or commitment. Talking to a girl should come with no expectations. It also shouldn't be a waste of time; if you're learning something from your rejections then it was a productive experience even if not the one you wanted.

 

Its true, I don't enjoy the process of working up my courage to approach women. And often I just want to get it over with, ask the girl out and get my answer.

Women can pick up on this. If you're just trying to get it over with at the first meeting then what should she expect on the first date? This almost comes across as angry and defeated which is quite unattractive.

 

Hmm, my friend also said something similar to this. He thinks my execution is faulty.

But what if that just how I behave? Maybe I can't be smooth with women, and no matter how many times I try I ll still come off a certain way.

That's ok but expect the same results. If you can't change your behavior and you refuse to change the women you pursue then don't expect the results to change. Something has to give. Either you have to get more comfortable with the idea of speaking to women or you have to go after women who are ok with awkward men.

 

I willing to keep trying but when I keep getting the same results I can't shake the feeling that something must fundamentally be wrong.

You're a scientist. When conducting an experiment you have to change variables in order to achieve the desired result. Why aren't you doing this in your dating life? Your approach is what's fundamentally wrong and until you change certain criteria, either your behavior or the type of women, then the results will continue being the same.

 

He thinks I probably come off as some random guy whose asking them out and since attractive women have plenty of opportunities to meet men in a more comfortable and convenient way, they would rather turn me down.

He's right. You've said that you don't want to "date down" and that you want what you're attracted to. There's nothing wrong with that. However, women want what they want and they want what they're attracted to. Since you keep getting turned down it's safe to assume what they want isn't you, so the problem is you, which is also a good thing because it's within your power to change.

 

Look at it from the woman's point of view. She has endless options. Then you come up without her giving an indication of interest, you assume she's attracted to you because you think you're attractive, rush through an intro because conversation is a waste of time, and ask for an answer after giving a poor first impression. Why would she say yes? She wouldn't and hasn't which is why you're here.

 

Next time relax, smile, have a chat and let her get to know you, get to know her instead of basing your decision on looks, and have fun. Listen to what Justanaverageguy said and work on developing a connection with a person so she'll want to be around you. Even after you get a yes she can still walk away if there's no chemistry.

[PinkElephants]

What is chemistry?

Chemistry is one of the most thrilling parts of getting to know someone. It's the rush of butterflies that you feel when they look at you. The smell of their skin that simultaneously thrills and relaxes you. The way their voice vibrates through your body into places you can't wait for them to touch. The electricity of their skin on yours that you swear you can still feel after they pull away. It's the way your knees and lips part before you even realize it because your desire for them is out of control.

 

It's the happiness that you feel when you see their name flash on your phone screen. The excitement of opening the message and seeing what's inside. The nervous happiness you feel while writing back.

 

It's the giddy way you tear through your entire closet in order to find the perfect outfit. The way you beam while getting ready to go and count down the minutes until you get to see their face again.

 

Chemistry is either there or it's not. It's instantly recognizable and extremely difficult to fight.

 

You also don't mention the pressure other put on perpetually unsuccessful people, that doesn't help matters either.

If someone is putting pressure on you then cut them loose; they're a source of stress, not help.

 

I come off as desperate, perhaps the OP does to, but how does one guard against this, what are the signs to avoid?

Don't be desperate. I realize that quality of life suffers when you want love but don't have it and that loneliness is stressful but you won't die if you're alone.

 

Also by understanding that desperation begets desperation. Being desperate is unattractive, being unattractive leads to rejection, rejection leads to desperation. You have to stop the cycle at some point if you hope to succeed.

 

Create happiness where you can. Go on a trip alone. Read the classics. Learn French. Take a cooking class. Be an interesting person that others want to be around which will help your desperation subside.

 

Is being shy considered a negative and if so why?

Being shy means you're probably nervous or have difficulty interacting in groups. That's a problem because no one wants to have to hold your hand and lead you through every outing.

 

I dated a shy guy and brought him out to meet my friends. They're loud, fun people and they made a genuine effort to include and talk to him. He sat awkwardly and never quite managed to join a conversation. Eventually, I got tired of having to babysit him through every group interaction and stopped inviting him.

 

Shyness, being overly accommodating, being a pushover or needy are all seen as weak,unmanly characteristics and, therefore, unattractive. Women tend to be attracted to confident men who can hold their own alone or in groups.

 

Being quiet isn't the same as being shy, though. My brother is a man of very few words but the words he speaks are interesting and hilarious so he has plenty of friends and girls pursuing him.

 

ZA Dater, what do you hope to achieve? You never listen to anything people say to you.

[ZA Dater]

Chemistry is one of the most thrilling parts of getting to know someone. It's the rush of butterflies that you feel when they look at you. The smell of their skin that simultaneously thrills and relaxes you. The way their voice vibrates through your body into places you can't wait for them to touch. The electricity of their skin on yours that you swear you can still feel after they pull away. It's the way your knees and lips part before you even realize it because your desire for them is out of control.

 

It's the happiness that you feel when you see their name flash on your phone screen. The excitement of opening the message and seeing what's inside. The nervous happiness you feel while writing back.

 

It's the giddy way you tear through your entire closet in order to find the perfect outfit. The way you beam while getting ready to go and count down the minutes until you get to see their face again.

 

Chemistry is either there or it's not. It's instantly recognizable and extremely difficult to fight.

 

 

If someone is putting pressure on you then cut them loose; they're a source of stress, not help.

 

 

Don't be desperate. I realize that quality of life suffers when you want love but don't have it and that loneliness is stressful but you won't die if you're alone.

 

Also by understanding that desperation begets desperation. Being desperate is unattractive, being unattractive leads to rejection, rejection leads to desperation. You have to stop the cycle at some point if you hope to succeed.

 

Create happiness where you can. Go on a trip alone. Read the classics. Learn French. Take a cooking class. Be an interesting person that others want to be around which will help your desperation subside.

 

 

Being shy means you're probably nervous or have difficulty interacting in groups. That's a problem because no one wants to have to hold your hand and lead you through every outing.

 

I dated a shy guy and brought him out to meet my friends. They're loud, fun people and they made a genuine effort to include and talk to him. He sat awkwardly and never quite managed to join a conversation. Eventually, I got tired of having to babysit him through every group interaction and stopped inviting him.

 

Shyness, being overly accommodating, being a pushover or needy are all seen as weak,unmanly characteristics and, therefore, unattractive. Women tend to be attracted to confident men who can hold their own alone or in groups.

 

Being quiet isn't the same as being shy, though. My brother is a man of very few words but the words he speaks are interesting and hilarious so he has plenty of friends and girls pursuing him.

 

ZA Dater, what do you hope to achieve? You never listen to anything people say to you.

 

Where you are wrong is I read your post three times to digest it in full. In one way you did make me smile because I realised at least I have experienced your definition of chemistry even if it was very one sided. I am always listening.

 

In the context of the OP I am just saying he should be desperate, because perhaps that is a factor in him being rejected. Its a difficult trait to be self aware of. People say I am that and I had two choices, embrace it or try hide it, I chose the former.

 

How do people genuinely stop that cycle of desperation and rejection?

 

You can create happiness, absolutely but there are limitations, more so if you are a giving person, again you look around at others, go to the mall and see couples, go to corporate dinners and see couples, at each turn its being rubbed in ones face that I have nobody. Go to dinner on your own, go to movies on your own, that's all fine BUT when its ALL you ever do then again it becomes like a piece of sand paper on ones face. Hear the sniggers "why does he never have a date in the last 10 years", it all mounts up.

 

The major positive for the OP as I see it is he can do the hardest thing, approach people, OP, being able to do that is half the battle won in my opinion, I don't have that courage and I doubt I ever will. From my experience you just need to take interest before asking out, remember how the mind works, you give something to maybe get something, ultimately you always give more than you get.

 

If you have common ground with these ladies things will be better, if you can approach, talking about things and find common ground then I see no reason why you cant get a date. Based on what I read here you are asking too soon in the conversation.

 

You are absolutely correct about shyness, the direct feedback is that's why I wasn't even considered with this last lady. Your shy guy sounds like a version of me to an extent....

 

The bold version is also quite correct and again sadly is me, sad to read that but I can acknowledge the truth, I always thought accommodating was attractive.

 

OP, I ask again, in what context are you meeting these people are there any common interests at play or is it fairly random?

[ZA Dater]

I personally don't think anything that I outlined above is actually really that hard - even if you are shy its doable. Essentially all I said was to talk to girls like real people and focus on the conversation \ relationship side first instead of the pushing for getting them to commit to dates. The problem is you are nervous talking to girls so you need to work on that. And look I'm pretty laid back but still every now and then you get a girl who stops you in your tracks and your left fumbling like an idiot. Happens to us all - girls unfortunately have that effect sometimes

 

If you don't find it easy to meet girls put yourself in situations where you will come into contact with them and start practicing what I said. The idea is to get comfortable with it so you actually enjoy the process of talking to girls and aren't completely clammed up or nervous. Join meetup groups or something that put you in contact with people. I mean because honestly what do you intend to do with the girl if she says yes to your request for a date ? You have to sit down and talk to her, chat and flirt eventually so why not get a head start before hand

 

As for how to guard against looking desperate I was actually talking to a couple of female friends about this the other night. Couple of guys in our friend group tend to come off that way and particularly focus on these two girls. The general signs are:

- Asking girls out without doing the aforementioned ground work with them to build a rapour. It comes off as weird\desperate.

- Repeatedly asking them out even when they have said no or had a conversation with you saying they weren't interested.

- Asking multiple girls out in the friend group - especially if you seem to just move from one to the next when you get a no. This not only makes you look desperate it makes the girls think you are a bit of a douche.

- Being overly available and focusing on the girl to much. Following them like a lost puppy.

- Being overly handsy or invading the personal space with girls and force contact when its clearly not welcome. There are signs when a girl wants this to happen.

- Becoming overly jealous when if the girl talks to another guy even though you haven't established anything with her.

 

I think it also just comes across in your energy and the subtle ways you interact with people. Its a tough one - the best way to not be desperate is to be happy with yourself - hard to fake.

 

 

 

 

Totally depends on the girl and also how shy you are. Some girls it would be a turn off they like confident outgoing people. Some girls like shy sensitive guys - probably a little rarer but they are definitely out there.

 

Thanks for the feedback. I think it really depends on how much one wants something and to the extent one is prepared to leave their comfort zone.

 

I am a total disaster talking to girls, there is just nothing there, I never am able to connect at all, very rarely have anything to talk to them about and its just awkward which manifests itself in me being even more awkward than I already am. At least the OP can do an approach, I simply cant do that so short am I of confidence and so low is my sense of self worth when it comes to dating.

 

Thanks again.

[Justanaverageguy]

As a woman, I know immediately if I'm sexually attracted to a guy but whether or not he's a boyfriend, a one night stand, or rejected depends on his personality.

 

I don't disagree with this statement. Women will generally know within a couple of minutes if they are attracted to a man. However I don't believe you knowing that you are sexually attracted to someone comes down to looks only - even if you think it does. I don't just mean whether you see him as boyfriend material either - I mean just attracted in general.

 

A woman can find a guy physically attractive but go completely cold on him almost immediately based on his behavior. Likewise they can be not overly interested based on appearance but end up head over heals. I've seen it happen numerous times. I've experienced it and had girls reject me fairly abruptly and tell me I wasn't their type .... but ended up dating them or going home with them based on interactions after that.

 

Of course there are differences with all women but as a general rule I find women seem to almost immediately "add an extra filter" based on his personality. They then find this hard to remove to look at physical appearance separately. If you want proof I think you only have to look at the number of unattractive men with hot girls to understand this. In general they will have a personality type which counters the average appearance. You don't tend to see the same thing with men that often.

[you_can_not_see_me]

Ok I think people here have the wrong impression of me. I m not a shy guy in social situations in general. In fact in non romantic social situations I d say I m more bold and confident than average.

Even when dealing with women I m interested in I m not the kinda guy who gets super awkward and stutters. shyness towards women I m interested manifests itself mainly as a feeling of inhibition when it comes to approaching said girls. Like when I see a girl I find attractive I often feel inhibited about going over to her and talking to her. Eventually I can work up the courage, but the process is stressful of course and its a main reason why I want to just ask a girl out and be done with it, cause repeatedly having to bring myself to approach a girl is difficult. If I find out that a girl likes me then that stress goes away though.

[Justanaverageguy]

Like when I see a girl I find attractive I often feel inhibited about going over to her and talking to her. Eventually I can work up the courage, but the process is stressful of course and its a main reason why I want to just ask a girl out and be done with it, cause repeatedly having to bring myself to approach a girl is difficult. If I find out that a girl likes me then that stress goes away though.

 

Yeah that's basically what I gathered - ZADater is a little different. For you - no lead up work and not asking girls with any confidence or charisma. It seems like if you like them you just waiting awkwardly, working up the courage and then charge in and blurt out your date request as quickly as possible. You find this difficult and awkward and your execution says as much - awkward, nervous - no flirting or even general banter. You are basically shooting yourself in the foot.

 

Most girls probably just find it straight up weird. Even if they are attracted to you on the surface physically they would find it strange if a random guy they may or may not have seen before just approached them and asked them out point blank with no other interaction and what sounds like no confidence.

 

Your going to have to get comfortable with talking to women you like without having a guarantee they want to date you. That simple

[elaine567]

Most girls probably just find it straight up weird. Even if they are attracted to you on the surface physically they would find it strange if a random guy they may or may not have seen before just approached them and asked them out point blank with no other interaction and what sounds like no confidence.

 

Even with confidence it would be weird.

Confidence or overconfidence in that situation could come across as arrogance or even seem like bullying.

Come with me wench...

Er...no.

[ZA Dater]

Ok I think people here have the wrong impression of me. I m not a shy guy in social situations in general. In fact in non romantic social situations I d say I m more bold and confident than average.

Even when dealing with women I m interested in I m not the kinda guy who gets super awkward and stutters. shyness towards women I m interested manifests itself mainly as a feeling of inhibition when it comes to approaching said girls. Like when I see a girl I find attractive I often feel inhibited about going over to her and talking to her. Eventually I can work up the courage, but the process is stressful of course and its a main reason why I want to just ask a girl out and be done with it, cause repeatedly having to bring myself to approach a girl is difficult. If I find out that a girl likes me then that stress goes away though.

 

Think of it this way, if you are selling something you need to persuade the buyer to buy, I think dating is the same, you need to pad the conversation first, engage and then when you have common areas of conversation perhaps try the following.

 

"I had a good time chatting, would you like to grab a coffee next week" You don't mention what sort of dates you are trying to get, of course I might to be totally off base here.

 

Of course you are going to get nervous. Maybe its how you channel that energy, I do it totally wrong, I fidget, look around and generally do a poor job of using that nervousness in a positive way.

 

I reckon you are 85% there to getting a date, you are by no means in the hopeless category!

[ZA Dater]

I don't disagree with this statement. Women will generally know within a couple of minutes if they are attracted to a man. However I don't believe you knowing that you are sexually attracted to someone comes down to looks only - even if you think it does. I don't just mean whether you see him as boyfriend material either - I mean just attracted in general.

 

A woman can find a guy physically attractive but go completely cold on him almost immediately based on his behavior. Likewise they can be not overly interested based on appearance but end up head over heals. I've seen it happen numerous times. I've experienced it and had girls reject me fairly abruptly and tell me I wasn't their type .... but ended up dating them or going home with them based on interactions after that.

 

Of course there are differences with all women but as a general rule I find women seem to almost immediately "add an extra filter" based on his personality. They then find this hard to remove to look at physical appearance separately. If you want proof I think you only have to look at the number of unattractive men with hot girls to understand this. In general they will have a personality type which counters the average appearance. You don't tend to see the same thing with men that often.

 

Another insightful post. Where does one draw the line though in respect of the bold part because it seems a narrow line between that and looking desperate.

 

In terms of the second part, well usually there are financial reasons for that.

[elaine567]

Of course there are differences with all women but as a general rule I find women seem to almost immediately "add an extra filter" based on his personality. They then find this hard to remove to look at physical appearance separately. If you want proof I think you only have to look at the number of unattractive men with hot girls to understand this. In general they will have a personality type which counters the average appearance. You don't tend to see the same thing with men that often.

 

I agree, we already mentioned this up thread, for any woman looking for more than a ONS, there is the points system for overall appearance, then a points system for personality/behaviour - which may take a 9 in looks down to a zero in total, or a 5 in looks up to a 9.

But it is all individual, there is no formula for ALL women, hence why the need to get to know her first even in a fairly superficial way, to suss out if you are in with a chance.

If you are giving it your best attempt at being a confident extrovert and she is eyeing up your quiet best friend, then I guess you are not her type. Next!

Horses for courses.

[you_can_not_see_me]

I agree, we already mentioned this up thread, for any woman looking for more than a ONS, there is the points system for overall appearance, then a points system for personality/behaviour - which may take a 9 in looks down to a zero in total, or a 5 in looks up to a 9.

But it is all individual, there is no formula for ALL women, hence why the need to get to know her first even in a fairly superficial way, to suss out if you are in with a chance.

If you are giving it your best attempt at being a confident extrovert and she is eyeing up your quiet best friend, then I guess you are not her type. Next!

Horses for courses.

Here's the thing though. at least in the most recent few rejections, I only approached the girls after I witnessed what seemed like interest.

 

What really puzzles me is, I m great at reading non verbal cues of other people in general, but somehow when it comes to a girl I m interested I m seemingly mistaking disinterest for interest. That . . . or I m reading them right and I just **** up so badly after my initial good impression that they disregard any initial attraction they might have had by the time I ask them out.

[ZA Dater]

Here's the thing though. at least in the most recent few rejections, I only approached the girls after I witnessed what seemed like interest.

 

What really puzzles me is, I m great at reading non verbal cues of other people in general, but somehow when it comes to a girl I m interested I m seemingly mistaking disinterest for interest. That . . . or I m reading them right and I just **** up so badly after my initial good impression that they disregard any initial attraction they might have had by the time I ask them out.

 

I might be wrong but don't discount verbal q's, maybe those are more important than non verbal ones.

[Justanaverageguy]

Here's the thing though. at least in the most recent few rejections, I only approached the girls after I witnessed what seemed like interest.

 

What really puzzles me is, I m great at reading non verbal cues of other people in general, but somehow when it comes to a girl I m interested I m seemingly mistaking disinterest for interest. That . . . or I m reading them right and I just **** up so badly after my initial good impression that they disregard any initial attraction they might have had by the time I ask them out.

 

Yes - but what are you doing when you approach them ? I'm genuinely curious on the specifics of what you actually do.

 

So lets go with a real simple example. Lets say you go to the same coffee shop regularly and you see the same a pretty girl there a number of times. You notice she is stealing the odd admiring glance your way and you would like to approach her. Today you are standing in line and she happens to be right in front of you and she turns you lock eyes and share a nervous smile. What is your approach\next step ?

Edited April 13, 2016 by Justanaverageguy

[JuneJulySeptember]

Maybe I have been going about this wrong.

 

I have always held this idea that romantic interest is mainly based on physical attraction, a woman would immediately know if she's interested in dating a guy or not. Of course a major part of this belief is based on how my own attraction works, and I always assumed it would be the same process for women as well.

 

So I always figured the decisions was already made in women's mind and all I needed to do was ask them out and they would reveal if they were interested or not. I thought trying to connect much before the initial ask out is just not very good investment, because the girl might not be interested and I would have wasted my time connecting with someone who doesn't like me in a romantic way.

 

But it seems like you guys are implying that even a woman who might be physically attracted to a guy needs to make a connection with the guy to be willing to go out. And I guess that's not something I considered.

 

If you really want any kind of good advice and are not just here to BS as a distraction during the work/school day, you need to be very specific about your circumstances.

 

And do not exaggerate for the sake of effect/self-pity.

 

For example, something typically posted here, by a guy like possibly me in the past, "I've been rejected by 100 women." In reality, it was more like I sent ~60 or 70 messages online and got 7 or 8 responses. Not a windfall by any means, but a big difference between rejected by 100 women in a row without a single date.

 

Has a woman in class or in the past liked you and you didn't like her back because she was unattractive? Have you ever had a woman like you and wanted to date you? Well, that is a big deal. Because automatically, it ceases to be "Women don't like me. I must be a needy wimp who has zero social skills and the personality of a door knob." And it becomes, you cannot get the woman YOU want.

 

Lots of people, even attractive ones, cannot get the mates they want.

Edited April 13, 2016 by JuneJulySeptember

[deckard11]

It just seems like I can never get a girl I m interested in to go out with me.

 

 

Sure I m a little shy when it comes to asking women out but even as I ve gotten more confident in asking women out. I m still getting the same results.

 

I don't feel like I m an unattractive man, when I look in the mirror I can totally see girls being attracted to me but the only explanation I m left with after being rejected so many times is I must not be attractive to the women I approach.

 

sigh

 

I just want to know where I stand honestly, whether I should just accept a dateless life or has it just been an extended period of bad luck and I should keep at it.

 

I know exactly how you feel dude. I'm 41 and have never had a girlfriend or been in a relationship. All my life I kept hearing the same bs from people. Oh you'll fnd someone, there's someone for everyone and the biggest lie of the all, looks don't matter. Well they obviously do. All my life I been told by women what a nice guy I am, yet none of them ever gave me a look or chance. So I've chosen to accept a dateless life as you put it.

[PinkElephants]

I don't disagree with this statement. Women will generally know within a couple of minutes if they are attracted to a man. However I don't believe you knowing that you are sexually attracted to someone comes down to looks only - even if you think it does. I don't just mean whether you see him as boyfriend material either - I mean just attracted in general.

 

Of course there are differences with all women but as a general rule I find women seem to almost immediately "add an extra filter" based on his personality. They then find this hard to remove to look at physical appearance separately. If you want proof I think you only have to look at the number of unattractive men with hot girls to understand this. In general they will have a personality type which counters the average appearance. You don't tend to see the same thing with men that often.

Well then how lucky I am to have you to tell me what I'm attracted to because, apparently, I only think I know.

 

When I meet a guy the first thing I do is try to picture him on top of me. If it grosses me out then it's already over. If it's a go then all that's left is to figure out if he's a boyfriend, a fling or a reject. So, yes, for me, initial sexual attraction is based on looks only. Perhaps some women can be attracted to an unattractive man with a great personality but I can't; the one time I tried was a total failure because I was unable to see him as a sexual being. This is exactly what I said in my post which was my opinion only and not meant to be representative of all women. So, perhaps, you can stick to your opinion instead of assuming you know mine better than me as it is an arrogant and incorrect assumption.

 

As for your last paragraph, I agree that there is a filter and that a guy can slide up or down the attractiveness scale based on his personality and that it does become impossible to uncouple the two. Even a ridiculously hot guy can gross you out of he's got the personality of a piece of dryer lint. Though I have to say that the link between unattractive men and hot women is more likely economic than based on personality.

 

OP, do you have a wingman or woman who can go with you to help you out or see exactly what you're doing wrong? It's a lot easier and more relaxing to be a part of a group than approaching alone.

[Justanaverageguy]

Well then how lucky I am to have you to tell me what I'm attracted to because, apparently, I only think I know.

 

...

 

So, perhaps, you can stick to your opinion instead of assuming you know mine better than me as it is an arrogant and incorrect assumption.

 

As for your last paragraph, I agree that there is a filter and that a guy can slide up or down the attractiveness scale based on his personality and that it does become impossible to uncouple the two. Even a ridiculously hot guy can gross you out of he's got the personality of a piece of dryer lint. Though I have to say that the link between unattractive men and hot women is more likely economic than based on personality.

 

 

Wowee took that personally :eek:

 

Sorry didn't mean to offend you. Obviously it's a generalization - so does not apply to all I've simply found from my observations that often women seem to do this very unconsciously\subconsciously meaning they aren't even aware they are doing it. When they imagine the guy on top of them - they imagine the guy with his personality attached rather then a card board cutout. If you're different and can separate these 2 easily then no problem

 

I would definitely agree with you that the economic factor plays a part with unattractive men with hot women .... but I also think the economic side is strongly linked to the mans personality. Successful business men are successful for a reason. The man with money often tends to be more confident and assertive then the man without. Women tend to like all 3.

[redbaron007]

I know exactly how you feel dude. I'm 41 and have never had a girlfriend or been in a relationship. All my life I kept hearing the same bs from people. Oh you'll fnd someone, there's someone for everyone and the biggest lie of the all, looks don't matter. Well they obviously do. All my life I been told by women what a nice guy I am, yet none of them ever gave me a look or chance. So I've chosen to accept a dateless life as you put it.

 

Neither you nor the OP should accept a dateless life. I'm 40+, separated after 12 years of marriage and did not have a girl friend before marriage, so have been with just one woman...AND I'm an immigrant, albeit a highly qualified one. So you can imagine it would be easy for me to throw up my hands and resign to being a celibate monk for the rest of my life....but I will NOT accept a dateless life.

 

So I'm putting myself out there and and am pleasantly surprised by how LITTLE looks matter (I'm a brown skinned average Joe), and how HUGE other stuff matters: humor and playful nature, a confident direct attitude, maintaining eye contact, voice tone, and paying genuine compliments to a woman whom you find attractive. Do read my thread and you will see that though I'm also still searching for that special person, my effort is slowly bringing me benefits.

 

To me, this process also made me realize that my happiness does not depend on whether a woman "rejects" me or "accepts" me, and I treat it as a fun activity (as it should be!). Happiness comes from within...read The New Mood Therapy which explains this in detail.

 

So keep approaching women, be polite, yet confident and VERY generous and direct with your compliments. Don't give up.