Is it wrong or 'jerk-ish' of me to ask my girlfriend for a pre-nup if we got married?

[ironpony]

Well me and her had a long talk. I really would like to get the legal advice first, but the longer I wait for the appointment there difficult it is for her, since she wants an answer now and the more I wait to know what my financial options are, the longer I wait to give it to her, the more upset she gets.

 

She said that she only made those comments about me growing a pair, in a demeaning way is because she was mad that I made an appointment to see a lawyer without telling first, since I was waiting to see what the options were before bringing it up to her again.

 

She apologized and said she didn't mean it and just wish that I had it in her to tell her before.

 

Were those comments still manipulative, or was she just angry because I went behind her back?

[d0nnivain]

Those comments are less manipulative but they are still a far cry from mature communication & working together to solve a mutual dilemma.

 

If you can go from wanting to text her about breaking up and wanting to fight fire with fire by skipping her birthday party, you are no more ready for marriage on an emotional plane then she is.

 

At the end of the day, it's only money you can make more. The problems in your relationship stem from the idea that neither one of you know how to share.

 

There's a story about Heaven & Hell. In Hell there are all these starving people gathered around a large round table upon which is a delicious mouth watering bowl of stew. Yet they are all malnourished & miserable. They each have long spoons affixed to their arms but the spoons are too long for them to reach their own mouths so there they sit, longing starving & miserable.

 

In Heaven the set up is the same -- round table, great stew & spoons affixed to their arms but everybody is happy, healthy & well fed because they share -- they feed each other.

 

You & your GF have not mastered the art of caring for each other -- of putting the other's well being first. Until you do that, you will forever be in conflict.

[elaine567]

Ironpony you are all over the place here, you seem to bend with the wind.

You have to sit down with an attorney and find how to protect your 200K nest egg, like just about everyone here has told you to do for weeks. Do not renege on the appointment just get it done.

Who told you 200K was not worth protecting?

 

You trying to avoid conflict has just resulted in more conflict.

You are no further on today than you were the day you started this thread, so I can perhaps see where the "no balls" statement comes from.

 

A prenup is a huge thing so I can see anyone why anyone would take weeks to mull it over, what I cannot understand is why it has taken you so long to get to a first base friendly chat with a lawyer simply to find out about it?

 

My guess is that it is your fear of "wasting money", has held you back. You were determined to get a free consultation with a lawyer and when that was not forthcoming, you realised you were going to have to spend some money here on a pre-nup and that goes against the grain with you.

A pre-nup is going to cost you money and no pre-nup may also cost you money. You are thus between a rock and a hard place and so are paralysed into inactivity.

[bathtub-row]

The last conversation you had with her wasn't manipulative but that doesn't make her previous comments any less concerning. She resorts to all kinds of things when she doesn't get her way. This would alarm me. I personally thought you were on the right track with just avoiding her for awhile. She needs to know that she's pushing you far too much with the constant threats and her ridiculous stance on the pre-nup.

[elaine567]

There's a story about Heaven & Hell. In Hell there are all these starving people gathered around a large round table upon which is a delicious mouth watering bowl of stew. Yet they are all malnourished & miserable. They each have long spoons affixed to their arms but the spoons are too long for them to reach their own mouths so there they sit, longing starving & miserable.

 

In Heaven the set up is the same -- round table, great stew & spoons affixed to their arms but everybody is happy, healthy & well fed because they share -- they feed each other.

Nice 1min Youtube video - to illustrate that story.

[anna121]

This relationship has a very, very poor chance of succeeding.

 

See the lawyer. Don't take financial or legal advice from people who probably have never visited either professional.

 

But, yeah, this is way, way beyond the prenup. It's about her insecurities, her willingness to play dirty, and your failure to draw boundaries.

[whichwayisup]

If I do communicate with her she will attempt to be manipulative again and keep talking her way back into it.

 

So what? If you want to end it with her, then end it! If she tries to manipulate you, you cut her off and end the conversation and tell her it's over and you're sorry but this is how it has to be. To end a R through texts is very immature and cold. This was the woman you were going to marry, the least you can do is end it properly.

[whichwayisup]

The last conversation you had with her wasn't manipulative but that doesn't make her previous comments any less concerning. She resorts to all kinds of things when she doesn't get her way. This would alarm me. I personally thought you were on the right track with just avoiding her for awhile. She needs to know that she's pushing you far too much with the constant threats and her ridiculous stance on the pre-nup.

 

TOTALLY agree. Her coping skills are very immature and she has no idea what compromise is.

 

She's acting and reacting like spoiled tween/teen.

[elaine567]

.

 

She's acting and reacting like spoiled tween/teen.

 

Or someone who is determined to get her own way...

[Heracles]

OP, in your very first post lies all the answers.

 

She was so upset about you getting a pre-nup that she threw up? I love those kind of visceral reactions . They speak more than a billion words.

 

Somebody asked you why you want to marry this woman. You've avoided the question many times. Why?

 

Let me ask you a few rethorical questions that you already know the answers to:

 

How many people do you know or have you met who have 200k of savings?

 

The people you've talked to, who aren't capable of pulling that off, is it any wonder that they tell you that it's is not worth protecting and that no lawyer will take your case?

Let me tell you something that you already know: They are, not so secretly hoping that you get f.u.c.k.ed over and that she takes all your money

 

Now picture this: What does 200k represents to someone who has 50$ in the bank and lives paycheck to paycheck?

 

 

She decides to withold sex and refuses to have children with you unless you give her access to your money. Do you think she is getting married to you because she luuuvs you?

 

 

This discussion has been going for 25+ pages. You already know what to do but you are skirting the issue and refusing to face reality.

 

She knows how to pull your strings and you are allowing yourself to be manipulated because you want to avoid the discomfort that arises when you stand your ground on an issue that matters to you.

[ironpony]

Ironpony you are all over the place here, you seem to bend with the wind.

You have to sit down with an attorney and find how to protect your 200K nest egg, like just about everyone here has told you to do for weeks. Do not renege on the appointment just get it done.

Who told you 200K was not worth protecting?

 

You trying to avoid conflict has just resulted in more conflict.

You are no further on today than you were the day you started this thread, so I can perhaps see where the "no balls" statement comes from.

 

A prenup is a huge thing so I can see anyone why anyone would take weeks to mull it over, what I cannot understand is why it has taken you so long to get to a first base friendly chat with a lawyer simply to find out about it?

 

My guess is that it is your fear of "wasting money", has held you back. You were determined to get a free consultation with a lawyer and when that was not forthcoming, you realised you were going to have to spend some money here on a pre-nup and that goes against the grain with you.

A pre-nup is going to cost you money and no pre-nup may also cost you money. You are thus between a rock and a hard place and so are paralysed into inactivity.

 

When did I say I wasn't going to see an attorney? I have the appointment made and it was next week? Did I say I wasn't going?

 

Those comments are less manipulative but they are still a far cry from mature communication & working together to solve a mutual dilemma.

 

If you can go from wanting to text her about breaking up and wanting to fight fire with fire by skipping her birthday party, you are no more ready for marriage on an emotional plane then she is.

 

At the end of the day, it's only money you can make more. The problems in your relationship stem from the idea that neither one of you know how to share.

 

There's a story about Heaven & Hell. In Hell there are all these starving people gathered around a large round table upon which is a delicious mouth watering bowl of stew. Yet they are all malnourished & miserable. They each have long spoons affixed to their arms but the spoons are too long for them to reach their own mouths so there they sit, longing starving & miserable.

 

In Heaven the set up is the same -- round table, great stew & spoons affixed to their arms but everybody is happy, healthy & well fed because they share -- they feed each other.

 

You & your GF have not mastered the art of caring for each other -- of putting the other's well being first. Until you do that, you will forever be in conflict.

 

Am I making this relationship too much about money? Is it just the prenup or other things?

[ironpony]

OP, in your very first post lies all the answers.

 

She was so upset about you getting a pre-nup that she threw up? I love those kind of visceral reactions . They speak more than a billion words.

 

Somebody asked you why you want to marry this woman. You've avoided the question many times. Why?

 

Let me ask you a few rethorical questions that you already know the answers to:

 

How many people do you know or have you met who have 200k of savings?

 

The people you've talked to, who aren't capable of pulling that off, is it any wonder that they tell you that it's is not worth protecting and that no lawyer will take your case?

Let me tell you something that you already know: They are, not so secretly hoping that you get f.u.c.k.ed over and that she takes all your money

 

Now picture this: What does 200k represents to someone who has 50$ in the bank and lives paycheck to paycheck?

 

 

She decides to withold sex and refuses to have children with you unless you give her access to your money. Do you think she is getting married to you because she luuuvs you?

 

 

This discussion has been going for 25+ pages. You already know what to do but you are skirting the issue and refusing to face reality.

 

She knows how to pull your strings and you are allowing yourself to be manipulated because you want to avoid the discomfort that arises when you stand your ground on an issue that matters to you.

 

Sorry I missed this post before and will answer the questions.

 

I wanted to marry her because we have the most in common out of any woman I have dated, and she cares about me and helps me and supports me more than any significant other ever has. I think she is good person.

 

I actually don't know why some others may he hoping I get f##ked over, if that's the what they think.

 

You say I am refusing to face reality. Perhaps I just am not sure how to approach it, since I have tried compromises with her, but it doesn't seem to have worked out.

 

I am now thinking of calling the wedding off, and telling her we have relationship issues, and I am not going to get married. But if I do this, could this make it worse and cause her to act more manipulative, and be more falsely agreeable, to get me back in?

 

Another thing I could is that maybe she was right to tell me to grow a pair in the demeaning way she did, since I went behind her back about seeing a lawyer.

 

So maybe what I could do is make a promise to myself, and grow a pair. But if she still makes comments like that towards me next time, then I tell her we are not getting married instead.

 

Would either of these two options be the fair thing to do?

[elaine567]

When did I say I wasn't going to see an attorney? I have the appointment made and it was next week? Did I say I wasn't going?

 

That's great, only this post #382 made me feel you were maybe having second thoughts...

[d0nnivain]

Am I making this relationship too much about money? Is it just the prenup or other things?

 

 

I have no problems with prudence as I have said repeatedly. Where you seem to be going wrong is when she acts up, you want to act up. You thought about only ponying up for 1/2 of the wedding. Then you said you were going to ghost her on her birthday. She upsets you & you want to punish her. I get that she's . . . a handful . . . & this is incredibly stressful but nowhere in here do I see you two working together. You both have a scarce & somewhat selfish mentality. I'm not saying that to be mean or insulting. It takes a while to learn to work as a team.

 

 

I'm an only child who married late in life. The 1st year of marriage was one of the hardest in my life. It was just different. I had to make decisions based on somebody else, not just me. When my business suffered a financial setback a few years ago, I became economically dependent on my husband for day to day stuff. I was used to being the primary breadwinner so my self esteem took a hit too. It was probably a good thing in the long run because it helped me to learn about fairness & sharing.

 

 

There is an emotional balance in a marriage, more give & take then money alone. It takes a while to find out what balance will work in your marriage but right now neither one of you seems to care enough about the other.

[ironpony]

No I wasn't changing my mind on the lawyer, I was just asking if it's true if I would be laughed out of the office like someone said, since 200k is not a lot of money to protect I was told.

 

I am still going to see the lawyer and have had the appointment set this whole time.

 

Well I feel that maybe I should not get married and tell her that we need to take a step back, and work on certain issues before doing so. I did this before with her, back when we were going to get married sooner, but she was bothered by the way I was handling things with my money, such as not traveling on vacation with her and some things like that. She argued with me on it, so I postponed getting married back then.

 

But now I would be doing it again, considerably. However, me thinking of doing that is based off of what people said about her being manipulative here. So should I call off the wedding plans and tell her that, if the majority of people have said the same thing?

 

And her comment about the way she demeaningly told me to grow a pair really pushed me away and just that whole paragragh of dialogue she said to me in general.

 

But was she in the right to say it, since she found out that I had an appointment to see an attorney without telling, and that I was going behind her back. I set it without telling her cause I wanted to know what the financial options were first. But she said I need to grow a pair with her and keep her apprised, even if I don't feel like telling her at the time.

 

But it's the way she said that makes me want to postpone getting married and tell her. But is that fair of me since I promised to marry her? Did I deserve being talked to that way, cause I made an appointment without telling her, and I shouldn't call of the marriage based on something that was my fault?

[d0nnivain]

Taking a major breather (not a break) but a step back from the brink of committing matrimony is a great idea. Re-learn how to talk to each other about everything.

 

 

Don't you think not marrying her now is better then marrying her & getting a divorce?

[ironpony]

I have no problems with prudence as I have said repeatedly. Where you seem to be going wrong is when she acts up, you want to act up. You thought about only ponying up for 1/2 of the wedding. Then you said you were going to ghost her on her birthday. She upsets you & you want to punish her. I get that she's . . . a handful . . . & this is incredibly stressful but nowhere in here do I see you two working together. You both have a scarce & somewhat selfish mentality. I'm not saying that to be mean or insulting. It takes a while to learn to work as a team.

 

 

I'm an only child who married late in life. The 1st year of marriage was one of the hardest in my life. It was just different. I had to make decisions based on somebody else, not just me. When my business suffered a financial setback a few years ago, I became economically dependent on my husband for day to day stuff. I was used to being the primary breadwinner so my self esteem took a hit too. It was probably a good thing in the long run because it helped me to learn about fairness & sharing.

 

 

There is an emotional balance in a marriage, more give & take then money alone. It takes a while to find out what balance will work in your marriage but right now neither one of you seems to care enough about the other.

 

I told her I was paying for the whole thing now. I don't mind, really.

 

I do care a lot about her and love her, it's just based on her attitude, I feel like everything is my fault and I keep screwing up at this relationship. So either it is true, I keep screwing up and should keep trying to get better.

 

Or I am not, and I should tell her I am not getting married because of her attitude. So which is it, if either?

Edited May 21, 2016 by ironpony

[Heracles]

Sorry I missed this post before and will answer the questions.

 

I wanted to marry her because we have the most in common out of any woman I have dated, and she cares about me and helps me and supports me more than any significant other ever has. I think she is good person.

 

I actually don't know why some others may he hoping I get f##ked over, if that's the what they think.

 

You say I am refusing to face reality. Perhaps I just am not sure how to approach it, since I have tried compromises with her, but it doesn't seem to have worked out.

 

I am now thinking of calling the wedding off, and telling her we have relationship issues, and I am not going to get married. But if I do this, could this make it worse and cause her to act more manipulative, and be more falsely agreeable, to get me back in?

 

Another thing I could is that maybe she was right to tell me to grow a pair in the demeaning way she did, since I went behind her back about seeing a lawyer.

 

So maybe what I could do is make a promise to myself, and grow a pair. But if she still makes comments like that towards me next time, then I tell her we are not getting married instead.

 

Would either of these two options be the fair thing to do?

 

First of all, I am not an expert but I have my doubts about a woman giving birth to healthy kids at her age.

 

Second thing is what do you think your children's mental condition will be if they were raised by a mother like her?

 

Look at all the drama you're dealing with right now. I went back and went through the whole thread and my body is aching just from reading it. You're only 31, how many long term relationships have you had? Why are you so hard pressed to get married to her when everything shows you that you shouldn't?

 

You can bet your life that she manipulate the f.u.c.k out of you if you call the wedding off. It will be a s.h.i.t.storm. But how do you feel about being blackmailed into marrying someone?

 

How much do you value yourself? Do you really think you need to ask her permission to go see a lawyer for your own protection?

 

Look, I will tell you what I think. Fell free to discard it. Marriage or not, your relationship with her is doomed. On your side, you have a lot of growing to do. Not to be disrespectful to you but to me, you seem pretty naive and clueless about human nature.

 

I swear, some of the women I know would have stripped you of all your assets by now. You would be a sitting duck for them. Your girlfriend is in a small -manipulator's- league compared to them.

 

Your case gets me to confront a reality: Some lessons can only been after having experienced traumas or excruciating levels of pain. I can only hope that you will be able to recover after that.

 

Do whatever it is that you want to do and good luck.

[ironpony]

Okay thanks a lot for reading and for your opinion. You say that she is blackmailing me into marrying her, yet if I call it off, there will be a s.h.i.t.storm.

 

So I am not sure what the most fair option is now.

 

And yes she is probably my first long term relationship. The others lasted a few months here and there, but this is the first to over a year.

[BlueIris]

Okay thanks a lot for reading and for your opinion. You say that she is blackmailing me into marrying her, yet if I call it off, there will be a s.h.i.t.storm.

 

So I am not sure what the most fair option is now.

 

And yes she is probably my first long term relationship. The others lasted a few months here and there, but this is the first to over a year.

 

Accept that she might be angry if you break up with her. LOTS of people get angry when someone breaks up with them, even people who haven't been together for 3 years and are planning a wedding. But someone else's anger is not a reason to get married, or to keep dragging this out.

 

"Fair" isn't the issue when you're deciding whether to marry someone or not. Fair is an issue in how you treat her- how you communicate with her, how honest you are with her, whether you do what you say you will. But marrying someone is not about being fair.

 

Blackmail or not, manipulation or not, make the decision that you want to make and then act consistently with your decision.

 

Someone said earlier that you're all over the place, and you are.

Waffling and hemming and hawing and not getting solid answers from credible knowledgeable sources have all been unfair of you, in my opinion. But even still, that doesn't mean you marry her. The decision to marry is yours to make and stick by and you seem to be avoiding it at an emotional cost to both of you. If you breakup with her, expect anger. That's not at all unusual. LS has many people angry at the person who broke up with them or didn't want to be with them. It's part of life to deal with others' anger.

[ironpony]

Yes I don't intend to be all over the place, I was just not sure what to do about it.

 

And she said it herself that I am all over the place which is why she told me to grow a pair and all that.

 

It's just seems that a lot of this is my fault, where as before, people were saying she was being manipulative and I should do something about it. So what changed, that it may be my fault now for how she reacts towards me?

 

Plus I have been told by her and a couple of others that I am making too big of a deal about the prenup for this reason:

 

After being taken advantage of the last time, before my gf, I made a vow to myself not to put myself in large positions to be taken advantage of again.

 

If I break my vow I made to myself, I feel like I would be losing my self respect, since our promises to ourselves are what make us who we are.

 

My gf says I am making too big a deal out of and we can break promises to ourselves and still have our self-respect. But what do you think?

Edited May 21, 2016 by ironpony

[BettyDraper]

Yes I don't intend to be all over the place, I was just not sure what to do about it.

 

And she said it herself that I am all over the place which is why she told me to grow a pair and all that.

 

It's just seems that a lot of this is my fault, where as before, people were saying she was being manipulative and I should do something about it. So what changed, that it may be my fault now for how she reacts towards me?

 

Plus I have been told by her and a couple of others that I am making too big of a deal about the prenup for this reason:

 

After being taken advantage of the last time, before my gf, I made a vow to myself not to put myself in large positions to be taken advantage of again.

 

If I break my vow I made to myself, I feel like I would be losing my self respect, since our promises to ourselves are what make us who we are.

 

My gf says I am making too big a deal out of and we can break promises to ourselves and still have our self-respect. But what do you think?

 

Frankly, it doesn't seem like you respect yourself very much since you are allowing yourself to be controlled by a very manipulative woman.

 

She's emotionally abusive. You have a codependency problem which is why you are taking responsibility for your girlfriend's feelings.

 

How many times do we have to tell you what we think?

 

Once again-Do not marry this woman. She will stop at nothing to get what she wants at any cost.

 

That is the general consensus of LS members who have posted in this thread.

Edited May 22, 2016 by BettyDraper

[ironpony]

Okay thanks. I am thinking I will tell her we should not get married and we have problems we need to work on first and go see a counselor about it or something about it for sure.

[BettyDraper]

Okay thanks. I am thinking I will tell her we should not get married and we have problems we need to work on first and go see a counselor about it or something about it for sure.

 

I don't think that makes any sense.

 

Your girlfriend is not rational and mature enough to compromise on financial issues so she isn't going to go to a counselor. Based on what you have shared here, she is just going to resort to tantrums and threats again.

 

The challenge for you will be to remain stoic and stick to your guns. You will feel proud of yourself for walking away from such an awful situation. Do not allow anyone to browbeat you into marriage-especially when they have shown that they are not above emotional blackmail.

 

Good luck.

[bathtub-row]

If you ask me, the fact that you've called off getting married once before does not bode well. As much as you want to cling to this relationship, I think you just need to face the facts that for all its good, this relationship has equal, or more, negative sides to it. More importantly, there are several dealbreakers here. Not the least of which she is excessively immature. I think there is some game going on with her but I just can't put my finger on it. Perhaps she has pegged you as being naive and gullible. And then she puked and became astonished when you did something she didn't see coming. It's really hard to say what her true motives are because there's so much masking behind her silly behavior.

 

Personally I think you need to find a more mature girl, and one that's younger than you or closer to your age. I know you don't want to think about that but there are just too many red flags here to ignore.