Is it wrong or 'jerk-ish' of me to ask my girlfriend for a pre-nup if we got married?

[bathtub-row]

Only you can make this decision. No one can do it for you. You can fish for answers until the cows come home but you ultimately decide.

 

The reason this is confusing for you is because you know in your heart that your gf is manipulating you, but you don't want to make the tough decision of ending things with her. She has given you one ultimatum after another. Personally, I wouldn't marry anyone who did this but you don't want to see what's right in front of you because she controls everything you do.

 

If you marry this person, you had better put that $200k in a separate bank account that she never has access to. That means no debit card attached to the account that she can steal from you, no ability to sign for the money, nothing -- unless you die.

 

The part you keep missing over and over again is that anyone who threatens the way she does, has something to hide. Open your eyes.

[BettyDraper]

Do you think I am being shallow and materialistic though? Making the relationship about money and not about love? It's not her who says that though. I talked about it with my best friend, he said that he on her side, and I need to provide for my woman, and wanting a prenup, I am showing distrust in the relationship.

 

You are being smart and realistic about the financial pitfalls of marriage and divorce.

 

Refusing to share money in a marriage and expecting your wife to pay you back for your wedding is selfish but requiring a fair prenup is not.

 

That said, you do not need approval from others for such important decisions. Work on your confidence level.

[BettyDraper]

Well I am confused as to what to do now.

 

Some are saying it's completely fair of me to want a prenup before getting married, and others are saying that 200k is not a lot of money and I am being too materialistic and self righteous about the issue, over love.

 

I even asked my two friends on their opinion. I told them that because of my past experiences, I vowed to get a prenup, after I have had been taken advantage of in the past.

 

One friend said that she agrees that if I break my how, I'll end up loosing my self respect, since it's the vow I made to myself, and your vows make you who you are to yourself, she said.

 

The other friend disagreed and he said that I am letting my past experiences put my gf in the same category as those other women before, and that's not fair to her, and I am putting too much emphasis on the vow, rather than love and happiness together. But the other friend disagreed saying that by keeping the vow, I am not putting her in a category and it's not about her.

 

But when I made the vow, I didn't say I only vow to let certain people of a lower category not be in a position to take advantage of me. I vowed never to let anyone period.

 

What do you think?

 

I think that you keep asking the same questions repeatedly until you get the answers you are seeking.

 

You have been told ad nauseam what LS members think about your situation. Now you need to make a choice on your own.

 

Remember that you alone have to live your truth and the consequences of your actions. If you marry this woman despite your obvious misgivings, your friends and LS members will not be experiencing the fallout of your mistakes. YOU will.

[NTV]

Well I am confused as to what to do now.

 

Some are saying it's completely fair of me to want a prenup before getting married, and others are saying that 200k is not a lot of money and I am being too materialistic and self righteous about the issue, over love.

 

I even asked my two friends on their opinion. I told them that because of my past experiences, I vowed to get a prenup, after I have had been taken advantage of in the past.

 

One friend said that she agrees that if I break my how, I'll end up loosing my self respect, since it's the vow I made to myself, and your vows make you who you are to yourself, she said.

 

The other friend disagreed and he said that I am letting my past experiences put my gf in the same category as those other women before, and that's not fair to her, and I am putting too much emphasis on the vow, rather than love and happiness together. But the other friend disagreed saying that by keeping the vow, I am not putting her in a category and it's not about her.

 

But when I made the vow, I didn't say I only vow to let certain people of a lower category not be in a position to take advantage of me. I vowed never to let anyone period.

 

What do you think?

 

 

 

 

I think that you're eyes are closed and you need to open them. I was hoping to help you with that by pointing out the red flags.

 

 

I want you to look back through the thread for post from me, and then look at posts from BlueIris. I want you to notice how strong she comes across as anti-prenup in the beginning AND how she changes her advice later. Then I want you to go back and re-read my responses to you.

 

 

I didn't just blubber. I didn't just talk to talk. Oh, I'm really good about spouting bullcrap when I want to. But I've taken considerable time thinking through your circumstances and typing out responses to you regarding this. Ironpony....If none of the things I've said had any impact whatsoever, then I'm going to step back from posting on this thread.

[GunslingerRoland]

I haven't been in here in a while and it's a lot to catch up on, but to me the fact that you are considering plans such as giving away all of your money to your parents or formulating a plan to take the money and run at the sign of trouble in your marriage shows me that you're not thinking rationally.

 

 

Have you thought about the downside risks of giving it all to your parents? Is it in their will to give it all back to you? And if so aren't you just delaying the inevitable that it will be in your name again? If not are you risking that YOUR money could get divided up to their other inheritors.

 

 

And as far as the plan to just drain the bank accounts, she can get a court order, and then you'll end up spending a bunch in legal fees and possibly facing ramifications. You can't legally do it, and there will be a paper trail unless you are burying the money in your yard or something.

 

 

She's using every manipulation tactic that she can possibly conceive of to try to get you to marry her without this pre-nup. Why is she so opposed to it. Is it because she believes she's entitled to the money or that she is so strongly against divorce in the first place that she is offended by the fact that it's even a future possibility. I'm guessing it's more of the former than the latter... in which case it's all the more reason why you need this.

 

 

Earlier in the thread I thought she seemed incredibly naïve about marriage, but the more I read it seems like you may be the naïve one. Your relationship is a living breathing red flag in every way at this point, and yet you're determined to marry her no matter what.

[BettyDraper]

I haven't been in here in a while and it's a lot to catch up on, but to me the fact that you are considering plans such as giving away all of your money to your parents or formulating a plan to take the money and run at the sign of trouble in your marriage shows me that you're not thinking rationally.

 

 

Have you thought about the downside risks of giving it all to your parents? Is it in their will to give it all back to you? And if so aren't you just delaying the inevitable that it will be in your name again? If not are you risking that YOUR money could get divided up to their other inheritors.

 

 

And as far as the plan to just drain the bank accounts, she can get a court order, and then you'll end up spending a bunch in legal fees and possibly facing ramifications. You can't legally do it, and there will be a paper trail unless you are burying the money in your yard or something.

 

 

She's using every manipulation tactic that she can possibly conceive of to try to get you to marry her without this pre-nup. Why is she so opposed to it. Is it because she believes she's entitled to the money or that she is so strongly against divorce in the first place that she is offended by the fact that it's even a future possibility. I'm guessing it's more of the former than the latter... in which case it's all the more reason why you need this.

 

 

Earlier in the thread I thought she seemed incredibly naïve about marriage, but the more I read it seems like you may be the naïve one. Your relationship is a living breathing red flag in every way at this point, and yet you're determined to marry her no matter what.

 

This. I hope that Ironpony listens to the advice he has asked for but it doesn't seem like he's going to.

 

He wants to walk willingly off a cliff by marrying this woman.

Edited May 19, 2016 by BettyDraper

[ironpony]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I guess I just find it really hard to believe, if she was being manipulative or was having bad intentions with me. I thought that after 3 years of a happy relationship, that it was probably not the case. But I guess it is.

 

The strange thing is though, my friends that know her, find this hard to believe as well and think that I am being shallow and materialistic for considering leaving her over a prenup.

[BlueIris]

That's the strangest twist of all, that you believe strangers on the internet over yourself and (very importantly) people that know both of you.

 

We're not experts, never saw the numbers, don't know her or you or the full dynamic of your relationship. People who know each of you and care about you are the best source for insight and advice. That's why we get married in their presence and not on the internet.

 

Good luck OP. However it turns out, I hope it turns out well for you.

[ironpony]

Well I thought the point of asking strangers was to get unbiased opinions since I was told by some on here that I am not seeing the forest for the trees with her.

[dreamingoftigers]

Well I thought the point of asking strangers was to get unbiased opinions since I was told by some on here that I am not seeing the forest for the trees with her.

 

Maybe seek an IC, or try counseling with her regarding this.

[rester]

Well I thought the point of asking strangers was to get unbiased opinions since I was told by some on here that I am not seeing the forest for the trees with her.

 

Why aren't you being more pro-active about getting that appointment with an attorney? He/she will understand your financial situation more clearly and will be much more qualified to give you the unbiased advice you are looking for.

[ironpony]

The earliest time the attorney could meet is next week, so I am waiting till then.

 

But the gf said she is not going to sign one no matter what and is not interested in what the lawyer has to say. Hypothetically, if the prenup options come with the options I would like, the big decision is, do I leave my gf if she won't sign, and I want one.

 

But then again, others have said she was being manipulative. I didn't see it as manipulation, I just saw it as a huge upset overreaction, but maybe it is manipulation.

Edited May 20, 2016 by ironpony

[CarrieT]

Hypothetically, if the prenup options come with the options I would like, the big decision is, do I leave my gf if she won't sign, and I want one.

What does your gut reaction tell you?

[ironpony]

I am really split down the middle on this. I think a huge part of it is because I was taken advantage of in the past, and I vowed to myself I was going to get one, before I met her. I feel like if I don't, then I loose my self respect to a degree, and after being taken advantage of before, from trusting someone, it's an awful feeling to loose it again.

 

On the other hand, I was by a couple of friends that I was being shallow and materialistic if I choose a prenup over love. So I constantly fighting it down the middle and not certain. What about the whole self respect thing. Am I being too self righteous cause of past mistakes, and maybe I have an ego problem?

[CarrieT]

Only you can answer those questions for yourself.

 

Those of us that have been there (taken advantage of), understand that love is transitory doesn't necessarily last, but a credit rating and financial security does.

 

I was like you; my first marriage ended with me paying over six figures of HIS debt because I live in a community property state. It was why - after getting divorced at the tender age of 24 - I vowed to never financially tie myself to another person again. And I didn't even consider marriage until I was almost 50.

 

Even then, both my new husband and I agreed to a pre-nup - to protect his business and my credit rating (which is better than his). But since it was agreed that I would stop working and finish raising his pre-teen children (on alternate weeks), my lawyer came up with clauses in the pre-nup that guaranteed me a better alimony if we get divorced, the fact that he has to pay into a retirement fund for me, and decent life insurance policies (something neither of us thought of).

 

In my case, the lawyers brought up better deals than we did on our own and we were both surprised and happy with the outcome.

[whichwayisup]

Only you can make this decision. No one can do it for you. You can fish for answers until the cows come home but you ultimately decide.

 

The reason this is confusing for you is because you know in your heart that your gf is manipulating you, but you don't want to make the tough decision of ending things with her. She has given you one ultimatum after another. Personally, I wouldn't marry anyone who did this but you don't want to see what's right in front of you because she controls everything you do.

 

If you marry this person, you had better put that $200k in a separate bank account that she never has access to. That means no debit card attached to the account that she can steal from you, no ability to sign for the money, nothing -- unless you die.

 

The part you keep missing over and over again is that anyone who threatens the way she does, has something to hide. Open your eyes.

 

I agree. She's manipulating selfishly (not maliciously) and sees that you're her meal ticket. She probably won't ever get a high paying job, she can't save up so you'll be providing for her.

 

Aside from this recent problem, look back to your whole relationship. Think of any issues and problems, how she handled those, how she reacted and what was said, how it was solved/worked out.

 

You know her, we don't but from what you've said there are A LOT of red flags.

 

Let's put it this way if you truly were "in love" and she was THE ONE, you'd do anything to keep her in your life. Her flaws and those red flags are screaming, your gut is telling you too and I get you're confused because you love her but that doesn't mean you have to marry her.

[ironpony]

Yeah I feel like I am in love and I know I am. It's cause the manipulation is not malicious that I feel she is not doing it intentionally.

 

However, my brain is taking over constantly and battling the heart saying, get her to sign a prenup, or she won't learn.

 

And I do feel though that I am being hypocritical, cause people say she has a problem cause she is giving an ultimatum. But so am I, so what makes me different?

[CarrieT]

But so am I, so what makes me different?

Yours comes from insight, prudence, and practicality.

 

Her's comes from desperation, manipulation, and impoverishment.

[bathtub-row]

This is really a discussion the two of you should've had at least two years ago. Why you decided to bring it up just before marriage is beyond me.

 

Despite what your friends say, anyone who uses threats the way your gf does has big problems. And don't kid yourself about the difference between malicious manipulation and benevolent manipulation. It's all manipulation.

 

I was once married to someone that my sister referred to as the benevolent manipulator. After a few years of being with him, I felt like I was living in a deep, dark hole. And I couldn't figure it out because on the surface he seemed to be sincere and caring. After I left him, I really began to see him very clearly for who he was. We have a son together and he has always had issues with how his dad manipulates him.

 

This is very real stuff and what the strangers here see is that your gf is exhibiting all the signs of a true controller and manipulator. She doesn't even want to entertain the idea of a pre-nup, doesn't even want to see your side of things. And then she bounces around from one threat to another. At best, she's a very dumb girl who has no empathy for your past experiences. But I'm thinking she's far from dumb and knows exactly what she's doing.

 

What's the rest of your relationship with her like? When you disagree on something, how are those disagreements resolved? Does it always end with her getting her way? Does she resort to threats? Does she use sex as a weapon -- meaning, does she threaten to withhold it until she gets her way?

[ironpony]

Well she says she is willing to make other compromises such as separate bank accounts. Just not a prenup. Is that a fair compromise of her?

 

The rest of the relationship is almost always pretty good. Once in a while she says I am too obsessed with money when it comes to certain things. I save up too much and do not go out and spend as much and she says sometimes that I need to loosen up. But other than that, things are really good.

 

She does not use sex as a weapon, and a lot of times I can have my way. She even does lots of favors for me, and helps me out with certain things such as looking for careers and houses, which I like.

[bathtub-row]

Then talk to the lawyer about how to protect your money without a pre-nup.

 

As far as her expertise on money, it doesn't sound like she has much and it seems that the two of you are very much on two different plains where money is concerned. While I agree that a person needs to enjoy some of what you have, saving is very critical. The two of you may want to take the Dave Ramsey financial course. It's designed to get couples on the same page where money is concerned. I think this is something the two of you need.

[GunslingerRoland]

Well she says she is willing to make other compromises such as separate bank accounts. Just not a prenup. Is that a fair compromise of her?

 

No, because the point of the prenup in this case isn't trying to make sure that she doesn't spend too much money in the course of your marriage. It's that in the case things don't work out, you aren't trading your assets for her debt.

 

 

Separate bank accounts keeps the money out of her hands, but it's still legally half hers without the prenup.

[Art_Critic]

Then talk to the lawyer about how to protect your money without a pre-nup.

 

 

Yeah.. knowing the state laws will help too, since many states only consider post marital assets as marital property a prenup wouldn't be needed in those states providing the money wasn't commingled..

 

Commingled is a pretty good term to familiarize yourself with.. for example..

you can't take premarital money and buy a house with it after you get married and it remain your asset, it becomes marital property and so does the money you bought the house with, of course it can be used during negotiations in the event of a divorce that you paid for the house but legally half of that money becomes hers by commingling it...

 

Commingling only comes into play with pre-marital assets.. any paycheck post marriage is marital property.

[BettyDraper]

Well she says she is willing to make other compromises such as separate bank accounts. Just not a prenup. Is that a fair compromise of her?

 

The rest of the relationship is almost always pretty good. Once in a while she says I am too obsessed with money when it comes to certain things. I save up too much and do not go out and spend as much and she says sometimes that I need to loosen up. But other than that, things are really good.

 

She does not use sex as a weapon, and a lot of times I can have my way. She even does lots of favors for me, and helps me out with certain things such as looking for careers and houses, which I like.

 

Not using sex as a weapon doesn't negate the fact that your girlfriend has used suicide and babies to manipulate you.

 

You also have very different attitudes towards money which is a serious problem. Part of the reason your girlfriend has no money is she makes poor financial choices. Now she also wants you to spend more of your money frivolously? No wonder your girlfriend doesn't want a prenup-she wants to take all of your money in a divorce so that she can blow it on foolishness.

 

Separate accounts is very typical in most marriages. Even couples who have a joint account still have separate accounts as well.

[whichwayisup]

Yeah I feel like I am in love and I know I am. It's cause the manipulation is not malicious that I feel she is not doing it intentionally.

 

However, my brain is taking over constantly and battling the heart saying, get her to sign a prenup, or she won't learn.

 

And I do feel though that I am being hypocritical, cause people say she has a problem cause she is giving an ultimatum. But so am I, so what makes me different?

 

Learn? You mean how to be responsible and accountable for money?

 

People like that only learn when they hit rock bottom and suffer major consequences. Signing a prenup isn't going to teach her how to handle her financials well.