Is it wrong or 'jerk-ish' of me to ask my girlfriend for a pre-nup if we got married?

[DreamP]

I just wanted my house and possibly my business to be mine if something should happen, since I am paying for those two things fully myself. Is that bad, if I am not as rich as someone like Bill Gates.

 

There are ways to protect your business that has nothing to do with pre-nups. A good financial planner can explain that to you. Something every business owner needs to do regardless of what they think of their spouse.

 

I don't believe a pre-nup will project your house and business. I'm not a lawyer, but from what I understand and what others have tried to explain, just because you started the business and put the down payment on the house with your own pre-marriage money, doesn't mean your wife doesn't have claim to it. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am guessing you only have a downpayment for a house. Therefore, once you are married, whatever money you make and put towards the house will be considered communal money.

 

For example, if you buy a house worth $100K and you put down $20K downpayment of your pre-marriage money. 5 years from now you divorce. You have paid off an additional $20K and the house has appreciated $20K. Even with a pre-nup, your wife will be entitled to $20K (half of the additional amount paid and the appreciation). So you will either have to sell the house and split the money or pay her the $20K in order to keep the house. Of course I'm over simplifying things here, but see how the pre-nup has only given your a false sense of security.

 

What you truly need is to make sure you are marrying the right person and I'm not talking just romantically here. As I said before, you need to face the fact you are marrying somebody you can't trust financially or move on. what you truly need is clear communication and agreement on how things are going to work financially when you get married and you need to trust your spouse that they will keep their part of the agreement. If you can't, then I highly recommend not getting married to this person.

[BlueIris]

There are ways to protect your business that has nothing to do with pre-nups. A good financial planner can explain that to you. Something every business owner needs to do regardless of what they think of their spouse.

 

I don't believe a pre-nup will project your house and business. I'm not a lawyer, but from what I understand and what others have tried to explain, just because you started the business and put the down payment on the house with your own pre-marriage money, doesn't mean your wife doesn't have claim to it. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am guessing you only have a downpayment for a house. Therefore, once you are married, whatever money you make and put towards the house will be considered communal money.

 

For example, if you buy a house worth $100K and you put down $20K downpayment of your pre-marriage money. 5 years from now you divorce. You have paid off an additional $20K and the house has appreciated $20K. Even with a pre-nup, your wife will be entitled to $20K (half of the additional amount paid and the appreciation). So you will either have to sell the house and split the money or pay her the $20K in order to keep the house. Of course I'm over simplifying things here, but see how the pre-nup has only given your a false sense of security.

 

What you truly need is to make sure you are marrying the right person and I'm not talking just romantically here. As I said before, you need to face the fact you are marrying somebody you can't trust financially or move on. what you truly need is clear communication and agreement on how things are going to work financially when you get married and you need to trust your spouse that they will keep their part of the agreement. If you can't, then I highly recommend not getting married to this person.

 

It's important to know what you can and can't include in a prenup in your jurisdiction. Where I live, a prenup can address this.

 

Both OP and his fiance/GF should speak to attorneys.

[ironpony]

Even if she gets 20K, maybe that would be fair to her in the end. A pre-nup is still better, cause you can arrange those things and plan on them, compared to no pre-nup at all, and let the government decide everything, right?

[BlueIris]

Even if she gets 20K, maybe that would be fair to her in the end. A pre-nup is still better, cause you can arrange those things and plan on them, compared to no pre-nup at all, and let the government decide everything, right?

 

In my opinion, yes. For her too.

 

But there are some crappy lawyers out there (even very expensive high-profile lawyers who are not good in this field) so be sure to get two good ones. Of course, it'll be a contract so it can't be perfect.

 

I'm really sorry to hear that your fiance/GF reacted the way she did. If only she understood what a benefit a prenup could be for both of you and how it can strengthen your marriage. I hope she gets there.

[DreamP]

Even if she gets 20K, maybe that would be fair to her in the end. A pre-nup is still better, cause you can arrange those things and plan on them, compared to no pre-nup at all, and let the government decide everything, right?

 

I think you are missing the point I am trying to make. First off, the pre-nup is only protecting a very small piece of your fortune. Second, pre-nups are not guarantee, especially where children are concerned and the reasons behind the divorce. For the example I gave you, you may not get the house at all because it was the primary residence of your spouse and child(ren). So you may lose it in a divorce. Pre-nups are just false securities that don't do much unless you have vast amounts of wealth.

 

Spend more time looking at who you are marrying. The amount of wealth you are talking about are small potatoes. If you end up in an ugly divorce, the amount you spend on fighting it will be the same as the wealth you are trying to protect through a pre-nup.

[Miss Peach]

I would consult with an attorney whether or not you do a prenup. Many will do free consultations. IMO it's better to know your options. Things vary so much from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

 

I don't know the law in all states, but in many, spousal alimony is allotted when one person gives up their career to care for the home/children/etc.

 

In my state it can be allotted to the higher wage earner regardless of whether they gave up their career. Same with child support.

 

This quote stuck out to me the most right now. I am buying a house right now, and also trying to invest money in starting my own career business. If I got divorced all that would be lost. No business and no place to house to own possibly. Do I have to be as rich as Bill Gates in order to want to protect some my assets, just in case?

 

And I know that a prenup only is for money prior to the marriage and has nothing to do with child custody, like someone mentioned before.

 

I just wanted my house and possibly my business to be mine if something should happen, since I am paying for those two things fully myself. Is that bad, if I am not as rich as someone like Bill Gates.

 

I think it's fair to want to protect this. Frankly that's my concern too. I wouldn't want to start over like I did last time.

 

Outside of a prenup, I have known people who put these things into trusts. That might be another (and more ironclad) way of protecting things. Again it's worth getting the advice so at least you know your options.

 

I don't believe a pre-nup will project your house and business. I'm not a lawyer, but from what I understand and what others have tried to explain, just because you started the business and put the down payment on the house with your own pre-marriage money, doesn't mean your wife doesn't have claim to it. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am guessing you only have a downpayment for a house. Therefore, once you are married, whatever money you make and put towards the house will be considered communal money.

 

This isn't true in my state. The down payment would still be separate property. Only the equity above the down payment would be joint. I went this battle in my divorce.

 

I think you are missing the point I am trying to make. First off, the pre-nup is only protecting a very small piece of your fortune. Second, pre-nups are not guarantee, especially where children are concerned and the reasons behind the divorce. For the example I gave you, you may not get the house at all because it was the primary residence of your spouse and child(ren). So you may lose it in a divorce. Pre-nups are just false securities that don't do much unless you have vast amounts of wealth.

 

This actually wouldn't hold up in my state. It would still be his and the wife wouldn't be able to touch it. Went through this battle too but I had the down payment.

[BettyDraper]

I agree whole heartedly that marriage is a financial partnership. That is why pre-nups don't make sense. If you already know you are partnering up with somebody with poor business sense, than you have to deal with that. A pre-nup to project the ~$50,000 (I'm assuming this is what the OP has for a down-payment on a house) is nothing in the scheme of things. The combined savings of the house, retirement fund, savings, other assets, that accumulate over a marriage is far more. And a pre-nup is not going to project those. So open your eyes and be realistic about the risks you take in marrying somebody. Most people do all these financial savings. They create life together. They intertwine their lives together in financial, social, cultural and emotional ways that are very hard to untangle. $50,000 is a drop in the bucket. If you can't sacrifice that much money for a marriage then either the OP is not ready for marriage or this women is not worth it to get married to. Pre-nups are false securities for people who really don't know or trust their potential spouse. Either reason is a warning signal.

 

My eyes have already been opened by what I have read concerning one of the leading causes of divorce-finances. This is why it is a smart choice to make sure that you and your intended are on the same page about money.

 

It's foolish to marry someone who is awful with money because income and how you use it will determine your lifestyle. Blindly trusting that marriage will always last forever is naive. Pre nups are often renegotiated after a couple's financial situation changes; it isn't an iron clad agreement that cannot be changed.

[BettyDraper]

We don't know the circumstances around this. We don't know how old she is. If she was 18, would you still have that opinion? I was broke and living paycheck to paycheck when I first got out of college. That was because I had to put myself through college and didn't come from a family with money. I lived on my friend's couch when I couldn't find work and eat 10c ramen noodles. I don't believe I was financial irresponsible but circumstances put me there. Most people live paycheck to paycheck when they first start out unless they have parents to supplement their income or provide housing. I don't want to label the OP's girlfriend without knowing the circumstances.

 

I was also poor when I was younger so this is a good point. However, most people marry closer to age 30 so finances should be at a better starting point by then. I seriously doubt the OP and his girlfriend are in their late teens; he comes across as far too mature and established to be so young.

 

When I married my husband, the recession made our financial situation worse than it had ever been. We only lived paycheque to paycheque due to job loss. We're happy that we got through that time together but we both agree that we should have waited a couple of years to get married because then we would have been further ahead.

Edited April 13, 2016 by BettyDraper

[ironpony]

Me and her are both in our thirties.

 

But if pre-nups do not really give you anything and are a false sense of security for both parties, is it worth getting one than, if that is the case of law? Should I retract the pre-nup and we should get married, without one, if they do not do any good in the real world?

[BettyDraper]

Okay thanks. I didn't say that I was being unfair to the other person completely though did I? I am open to coming up with some sort of an arrangement where she would get something, but she doesn't even want to talk about it it seems.

 

She says I am too 'American', and wishes American men would be more European, and more romantic therefore.

 

No, you didn't say that but I was giving my opinion of prenups.

 

If you are from the US, it makes sense that you will have an American way of thinking. Your girlfriend comes across as a woman with her head in the clouds; she isn't practical or realistic about marriage. Be careful of building a future with someone like her. Marriage is not all roses and sunshine. There are harsh realities that are important in marriage as well. She seems very immature.

 

If I was in your position, I couldn't marry a woman who thought this way. She has clearly watched too many Disney movies.

[BettyDraper]

Me and her are both in our thirties.

 

But if pre-nups do not really give you anything and are a false sense of security for both parties, is it worth getting one than, if that is the case of law? Should I retract the pre-nup and we should get married, without one, if they do not do any good in the real world?

 

It's not true that prenups give a false sense of security.

They are legal documents which can be amended.

 

Please be careful about second guessing your smart decisions based on opposition from online forums. Those who look at the less romantic and factual areas of marriage would never say that prenups are worthless.

 

If your girlfriend's first response to a disagreement is getting hysterical and making threats, is this someone that you can live with for the rest of your life? Marriage is for mature adults who do not fly off the handle just because they hear something they don't like.

[Miss Peach]

Me and her are both in our thirties.

 

But if pre-nups do not really give you anything and are a false sense of security for both parties, is it worth getting one than, if that is the case of law? Should I retract the pre-nup and we should get married, without one, if they do not do any good in the real world?

 

They are legal agreements that can be amended just like any other contract.

 

The point I was trying to make is that in a divorce someone can ask for anything. I had a few items that legally were MY property that XH tried to get. Most places will still allow someone to get dragged into divorce court but it doesn't mean they will win. The prenup, besides being a contract, also allows you two to discuss and set up expectations. If your marriage is strong then it's not anything that will be used.

 

I have heard in some cases people moving or going through other things where portions of a prenup were thrown out. That's why I suggested also looking into things like trusts as an extra insurance policy.

 

When I suggested retraction that was an idea I've heard some people use as a compromise when one person wants one and the other doesn't. It's up to you whether you choose to offer that option.

[d0nnivain]

Having the uncomfortable possibly emotionally painful conversations about money that you are forced to undertake in order to create a pre-nup is definitely worth it.

 

The actions of your intended show more about her character then any piece of paper she may sign. Throwing things -- really? Issuing ultimatums about kids? Her outright refusal to discuss this like adults?

 

Shame on you if you go forward marrying her without further discussion about the topic. If you do, you will deserve whatever financial hell she rains down on you later.

[bathtub-row]

I think your gf's reaction is very childish. It's too bad she has taken this stance. Not sure what to tell you but i personally don't care for ultimatums. You asking for a pre-nup was not a jerky thing to do.

 

The problem now is that if you cave in, will she ever let this go? Meaning, will she continually bring it up for the next 20 years? And if the two of you divorce a year after you're married, how will you feel when she fights you for your money?

[mrs rubble]

I'm in my 40's and getting married for the second time early next year, I asked my fiance a while back (after a lot of thought and agonising) if he would be prepared to sign a prenup as I have a lot of equity in my house, my parents are reasonably wealthy and I'm an only child, so I'm worried about protecting future inheritance for my children(from previous relationship). He has his own children (from previous relationship)and I expect him to protect any inheritance coming his way too.

He didn't hesitate to agree to signing such a document and I feel a sense of relief that we've already thought this through and we both want to protect ourselves....I think if he'd refused I would have called things off.

[Dirt]

I'd find a new girl. You can avoid this problem by finding a girl that brings assets to the relationship as well, instead of having only $50 in checking. I know I would.

[bathtub-row]

I'm in my 40's and getting married for the second time early next year, I asked my fiance a while back (after a lot of thought and agonising) if he would be prepared to sign a prenup as I have a lot of equity in my house, my parents are reasonably wealthy and I'm an only child, so I'm worried about protecting future inheritance for my children(from previous relationship). He has his own children (from previous relationship)and I expect him to protect any inheritance coming his way too.

He didn't hesitate to agree to signing such a document and I feel a sense of relief that we've already thought this through and we both want to protect ourselves....I think if he'd refused I would have called things off.

 

One of the beautiful things in life -- a spouse can't touch their spouse's inheritance. Still, you're smart to do what you're doing. If I ever married again, a pre-nup would be necessary. And my future husband wouldn't even have to ask if I would sign a pre-nup. I would suggest it.

[bathtub-row]

I'd find a new girl. You can avoid this problem by finding a girl that brings assets to the relationship as well, instead of having only $50 in checking. I know I would.

 

Whether his gf has money or not isn't relevant. It's her lack of understanding about him wanting to protect himself that's the problem.

[Jabron1]

A pre-nup is sensible. But when marriage is so insecure that you have to go to these lengths, it defeats the object of marriage IMO.

[BettyDraper]

I'd find a new girl. You can avoid this problem by finding a girl that brings assets to the relationship as well, instead of having only $50 in checking. I know I would.

 

Or a woman who doesn't have assets but isn't ridiculously romantic and greedy.

[DreamP]

Me and her are both in our thirties.

 

But if pre-nups do not really give you anything and are a false sense of security for both parties, is it worth getting one than, if that is the case of law? Should I retract the pre-nup and we should get married, without one, if they do not do any good in the real world?

 

You have to do what is right for you knowing yourself and your girlfriend. I just think that the pre-nup is a band-aid on a much bigger problem. The way I see it (and this is just my opinion), you are driving yourself crazy over a small piece of wealth while putting your whole future financial prospective in jeopardy.

[CarrieT]

OP, regarding your business, you *absolutely* should do a pre-nup to protect it and yourself.

 

I am a recently married, middle-aged woman whose then-fiancé asked me for a pre-nup. Yes, I was hurt at first. But I married a private practice doctor and eight years before we met, he went through a very contentious and expensive divorce because he had to buy back a portion of his own business from his soon-to-be Ex or keep her as a business partner for the rest of his life.

 

This is why you want to see a lawyer. And my now-husband insisted I get my own, separate lawyer (which he actually paid for), to make sure that my rights and own assets were protected as well. My lawyer did find a few things in my favor that neither of us would have thought about and I completely understand my husband's need to protect his business if our marriage didn't work out.

 

As we have now been married two-and-a-half years, he has already stated that at our five year mark (I'll be in my mid-50s and he closer to 60), he will have the pre-nup disbanded to ensure my financial future in case anything happens to him.

 

The joy of the pre-nup is that they can always be amended or disbanded at anytime during the marriage.

[ironpony]

Okay thanks. But it was said that with a pre-nup I would only get to keep a very small portion of things anyway. But I guess I should speak to a lawyer first.

 

I do help her out money wise, since she is poor. I helped her pay her dental bills recently, so I do help out. I just want the business to be mine, since I am bringing almost all the money into the marriage, and paying for the whole house pretty much now.

 

What if I told her, we should look over the pre-nup options with a lawyer, before just throwing it out the window. If she says no, should I say I am not getting married without one, or least looking over one, and then leave the decision of what she wants to do, up to her then? Is that too harsh?

[BlueIris]

Okay thanks. But it was said that with a pre-nup I would only get to keep a very small portion of things anyway. But I guess I should speak to a lawyer first.

 

Yes.

There have been various opinions expressed about what a prenup can do or what other documents or agreements might be better, but it all boils down to what your jurisdiction permits.

 

If you're not ready to end it with her, I still think it would be wise to have her see an attorney, too- her own attorney. Lots of people get upset about prenups (probably most don't get so upset that they throw up), simply because they don't understand that they're not weapons or threats.

[Methodical]

Okay thanks. But it was said that with a pre-nup I would only get to keep a very small portion of things anyway. But I guess I should speak to a lawyer first.

 

I do help her out money wise, since she is poor. I helped her pay her dental bills recently, so I do help out. I just want the business to be mine, since I am bringing almost all the money into the marriage, and paying for the whole house pretty much now.

 

What if I told her, we should look over the pre-nup options with a lawyer, before just throwing it out the window. If she says no, should I say I am not getting married without one, or least looking over one, and then leave the decision of what she wants to do, up to her then? Is that too harsh?

 

IMO, no, it's not too harsh. Many couples marry and keep their finances separate. To the best of my knowledge, you are only wanting a measure of protection that insures you won't get married and then taken to the cleaners for half of YOUR assets pre-marriage a year down the road. If she is not in it for the money, then she should realize that she would be entitled to half of everything acquired during the marriage. To me, her reaction has been over the top.