Is it wrong or 'jerk-ish' of me to ask my girlfriend for a pre-nup if we got married?

[BettyDraper]

I don't see what is so terrible about the higher earner being concerned about finances before a marriage.

 

Marriage is not all about romance.

 

That said, even when the higher earner purchases the home it is unwise and rather cold to see a home as only theirs.

 

My husband bought our home and he still refers to it as "our" house.

[BlueIris]

She became very upset and started throwing up even. She said that if she were to marry me with a pre-nup signed, she would not have children with me cause there is no way she would bring children into that type of marriage.

 

I talked about it with my closest woman friend and she said that if she were in my gf's position, she would not sign one, because if a man asks a woman to sign one, it shows me has questionable intentions....

 

She says I have till next month to withdraw the pre-nup request, or she will break up with me, cause it's not worth continuing therefore. Or if she marries me, she will definitely not have kids, she says as a result of it. What do you think?

 

She wants to know that she would not suffer financially in a divorce if she sacrificed earning ability by having kids and being the primary caregiver. It's a valid concern. It's the original policy concern behind alimony. Assure her a prenup is an agreement between two people, as equals, that protects BOTH of you. Ask her to talk with you about it. That's the first step. Don't worry about the "Can I get this?" and "Can I do that?" questions until you and your GF have talked to make sure that your ARE ABLE to talk to each other fairly and openly about this.

[ironpony]

Okay thanks for the advice.

 

Well you say that she has every right to refuse the pre-nup, but you are also saying she is giving me an ultimatum. What is the distinction between a refusal and an ultimatum?

 

And no, she doesn't do this every time she doesn't get her way. The crying and throwing up, where a surprise to me, and I did not see it coming to that degree.

[ufo8mycat]

I don't see her response as manipulation, particularly if it is not a repetitive behaviour. These discussions highlight different views, approaches and values. So being able to talk about it is so critical.

 

There is no wrong in this situation. Protecting yourself as you enter a relationship is prudent - for both of you.

 

I don't think the request to sign a prenup actually means a whole lot. It may mean someone has been burnt, there are family expectations, many reasons. I don't think your lady friends are correct that it = other intentions.

 

Nor do I think that it means a relationship is doomed. Its prudent when there are significant assets (and TBH, one home IMHO isn't "significant assets".

 

At the same time, what you are proposing DOES put your GF at a significant disadvantage if there are kids. But that isn't to say the agreement would still be binding.

 

Talk to each other. There is likely to be a happy medium (e.g., in the case of separation each party takes out what they put in)

 

The reality is sharing a life with someone is exactly that. My ex wanted back every single dollar he felt he had put into the relationship over 15 years. It doesn't work like that and trying to stitch up a deal so that it does probably won't work.

[ironpony]

Okay thanks. When I say I wanted to keep the house, that doesn't mean I would kick her out, if things went bad. Of course, compromises can be made, especially if there were kids. I just didn't want to lose the house, and if I wanted to say sell it and move sometime later, I would be able to do that.

 

That's all I wanted. But I wouldn't kick her and the kids out if it came to a divorce later.

[whichwayisup]

I don't see what is so terrible about the higher earner being concerned about finances before a marriage.

 

Marriage is not all about romance.

 

That said, even when the higher earner purchases the home it is unwise and rather cold to see a home as only theirs.

 

My husband bought our home and he still refers to it as "our" house.

 

The house becomes marital asset, you're right, it's theirs, not just his

 

I think compromise can happen - He protects his company, that's his. Everything else is marital assets.

[ironpony]

Oh okay thanks. I was told by someone I know that the house is mine if it's in the pre-nup, and I have purchased it before the marriage. But perhaps he is wrong.

 

Well... I guess I feel that we should come up with something since I am bringing a house and a business in the marriage, and she is only bringing in 50 dollars from her last paycheck. So I feel that we should come up with some sort of a pre-nup arrangement.

 

I feel that maybe since she has taken the very idea of a pre-nup so negatively, that perhaps I need to put my foot down and say that we need to speak to lawyers about this and discuss options, or I feel that it's not fair to me in the marriage.

 

Would that be unfair of me to say?

[DreamP]

Well you say that she has every right to refuse the pre-nup, but you are also saying she is giving me an ultimatum. What is the distinction between a refusal and an ultimatum?

 

Every person has the right to do whatever they choose. They are individuals. She has the right to say no to the pre-nup and you have the right to walk away.

[bathtub-row]

I'm not sure about the "put your foot down" part but i think the problem here is that she's taking the "my way or the highway" attitude, and she's acting extremely immature. She needs to at least keep an open mind and agree to talk to a lawyer with you. She may come to realize that it can benefit her, too.

 

I also think that if you purchase property before marriage, it's yours. I think that's true whether you have a pre-nup or not. But confirm that with a lawyer.

[Methodical]

You need to speak to an attorney. Where I live, a house that is bought and paid in full prior to marriage would not be considered a marital asset for distribution. A house bought prior to marriage where a mortgage exists during the marriage is subject to marital distribution bc it's paid for with money earned during the marriage.

 

As for putting your foot down, I think you need to phrase it in a way that suggests you go together and discuss everything so that an informed decision is made with full disclosure that benefits both parties.

 

Saying it's not fair to you will exasperate the issue at hand bc you both feel your positions on the matter are legitimate.

[whichwayisup]

Oh okay thanks. I was told by someone I know that the house is mine if it's in the pre-nup, and I have purchased it before the marriage. But perhaps he is wrong.

 

Well... I guess I feel that we should come up with something since I am bringing a house and a business in the marriage, and she is only bringing in 50 dollars from her last paycheck. So I feel that we should come up with some sort of a pre-nup arrangement.

 

I feel that maybe since she has taken the very idea of a pre-nup so negatively, that perhaps I need to put my foot down and say that we need to speak to lawyers about this and discuss options, or I feel that it's not fair to me in the marriage.

 

Would that be unfair of me to say?

 

Why so little money? Do you not see this as a red flag? Does she work and can she become dependable to pay bills without relying on your pay cheque?

 

If there's a divorce, you give her some money, what she put into the house. Your business should be protected because that has absolutely nothing to do with her, the house is different because she will be investing some money into it eventually (hopefully!).

 

If you have children and she becomes a stay at home mom that does entitle her to more money.

 

Have you spoken to her today? If so, how is she towards you? Upset or bitter or is she starting to understand your reasons?

[ufo8mycat]

Oh okay thanks. I was told by someone I know that the house is mine if it's in the pre-nup, and I have purchased it before the marriage. But perhaps he is wrong.

 

Well... I guess I feel that we should come up with something since I am bringing a house and a business in the marriage, and she is only bringing in 50 dollars from her last paycheck. So I feel that we should come up with some sort of a pre-nup arrangement.

 

I feel that maybe since she has taken the very idea of a pre-nup so negatively, that perhaps I need to put my foot down and say that we need to speak to lawyers about this and discuss options, or I feel that it's not fair to me in the marriage.

 

Would that be unfair of me to say?

 

Any language that talks about putting one's foot down sounds controlling and inflexible. You are in this together right? To put ones foot down is to insist on your own way. Inflammatory at best.

 

Its complex and it is why you BOTH need to seek independent legal advice. Having something prior to marriage doesn't automatically exclude it from being considered an asset of the marriage. If it is completely paid off - there would be a strong argument but if not - it gets complex.

 

An example might be, you bring 100k paid off a property, but in five years she gets 100K inheritance that is spend on the mortgage or something you both benefit from.

 

you should be able able to secure the company, depending on the structure. There is a flip side to this that people often forget out - if the company ends up tanked and in debt, you can't expect her to take on any of this either!

 

We make assumptions that everything is on a upward trajectory and this isn't always the case. My ex was very happy to protect his company... until it worked out it was under water, then he wanted company assets and liabilities realised.

[BettyDraper]

Oh okay thanks. I was told by someone I know that the house is mine if it's in the pre-nup, and I have purchased it before the marriage. But perhaps he is wrong.

 

Well... I guess I feel that we should come up with something since I am bringing a house and a business in the marriage, and she is only bringing in 50 dollars from her last paycheck. So I feel that we should come up with some sort of a pre-nup arrangement.

 

I feel that maybe since she has taken the very idea of a pre-nup so negatively, that perhaps I need to put my foot down and say that we need to speak to lawyers about this and discuss options, or I feel that it's not fair to me in the marriage.

 

Would that be unfair of me to say?

 

I'm wondering about how you phrased your need for a pre nup to your girlfriend. Did you say that you need to keep your home in the event of the divorce?

 

There's nothing wrong with protecting yourself financially. However, if you see everything as "yours" instead of "ours it doesn't bode well for a marriage. Marriage means sharing assets even when your partner is doing well for herself.

 

My husband and I were on the same level when we married; the recession took our jobs and wiped out our savings. My husband was grateful that I still married him when he had nothing because it showed that I truly loved him. Health problems and location have made it so that my husband has disproportionately more than I ever will. He still doesn't throw his financial security in my face.

[DreamP]

I have been following this thread and also provided many comments. Many people have commented and provided feedback. Here are my summed up thoughts based on everything the OP has said so far.

 

Your girlfriend seems immature based on her reaction to the pre-nup. If she didn't like it, she should have said so as an adult instead of throwing a tantrum.

Your girlfriend seems financially irresponsible.

You don't quite seem to have the concept of marriage figured out. You keep talking about "my house," "the money I bring," etc. But when you decide to marry something, you stop becoming an "I" and become a "we." Now all decisions are a joint endeavor and all consequences are shared. Doesn't matter who is bringing in the paycheck or who is spending it. A couple has to accept responsibility as a unit, both good and bad. If you can't see it that way, you aren't ready for the realities of marriage. Many have said it and I echo the sentiment, marriage is not about romance. It is a financial, social and emotional contract that has far deeper consequences than any legal arrangement alone.

 

So what do you do? Like many have said, see a lawyer to figure out what is really possible for both of you. But you really need to open your eyes and realize that the pre-nup is just a bandaid on a large issue you have, and that is that you don't trust your gf's financial judgement. Second, wait off on getting married. Doesn't sound like either of you are ready for it.

[elaine567]

The crying and throwing up, where a surprise to me, and I did not see it coming to that degree.

 

That was due to pure shock and distress.

You would have got the same reaction had you told her you were cheating on her or that her mother had just died suddenly.

This is a huge deal for her, in her mind you have let her down massively.

[ironpony]

Okay thanks for the input. Well if I am in the wrong then, and everything we own is considered 'we' instead of 'I', what is the point of a pre-nup then?

 

I also told her that maybe we are not financially ready to get married yet, but she says that we have been dating for three years, and that is more than enough time for me to know if I want to marry her or not. I have till the end of the month to propose she said, or she will leave me.

 

She also made me feel like a jerk, because she said I am breaking my promise, and that I promised to marry her later this year. Yes that is true, I promised that before, but her emotionally impactful reaction to the pre-nup got me concerned. Is that unfair of me, or am I being a jerk on that promise?

[todreaminblue]

Okay thanks for the input. Well if I am in the wrong then, and everything we own is considered 'we' instead of 'I', what is the point of a pre-nup then?

 

I also told her that maybe we are not financially ready to get married yet, but she says that we have been dating for three years, and that is more than enough time for me to know if I want to marry her or not. I have till the end of the month to propose she said, or she will leave me.

 

She also made me feel like a jerk, because she said I am breaking my promise, and that I promised to marry her later this year. Yes that is true, I promised that before, but her emotionally impactful reaction to the pre-nup got me concerned. Is that unfair of me, or am I being a jerk on that promise?

 

 

no you are not being a jerk....your request is fair and understandable....as donnivain stated she may be not ready herself for marriage with a reaction that she has had to your request.....if she demands you marry her on a promise or she will leave...in my opinion, that states her intentions in the first place...its not about compromise or resolution its about what she wants for herself rather than the both of you together reaching for the same thing.........deb

[ironpony]

Do you think I should actually propose and give her the ring, than ask her for a pre-nup later? Would she likely be more willing to go in with me on a pre-nup, with some requests of her own as well, if I propose first, and go through that motion to show that I am for real in wanting marriage?

 

If I do that though, then she turns me down cause of asking for a pre-nup after, I will be more heartbroken, if after proposing. I do not know why, I just have a feeling it will make it a lot harder on me, if her reaction would still be negative.

[todreaminblue]

Do you think I should actually propose and give her the ring, than ask her for a pre-nup later? Would she likely be more willing to go in with me on a pre-nup, with some requests of her own as well, if I propose first, and go through that motion to show that I am for real in wanting marriage?

 

If I do that though, then she turns me down cause of asking for a pre-nup after, I will be more heartbroken, if after proposing. I do not know why, I just have a feeling it will make it a lot harder on me, if her reaction would still be negative.

 

I dont know iron pony if you should ask later... seems sort of manipulative...and you have an honesty about you..dont disregard honesty for an outcome that you want to be favorable.....state that you would still like a prenup...before you propose and her decision on whether or not to marry you should be about how she loves you and wants to spend her life with you ...making a pre nup really void...if its forever she wants to be with you.... not on whether to marry you because you dont want a pre nup anymore or you want a pre nup..seems....backwards thinking to me..making it about money....which to me ...isnt love......deb

[elaine567]

Do you think I should actually propose and give her the ring, than ask her for a pre-nup later? Would she likely be more willing to go in with me on a pre-nup, with some requests of her own as well, if I propose first, and go through that motion to show that I am for real in wanting marriage?

 

If I do that though, then she turns me down cause of asking for a pre-nup after, I will be more heartbroken, if after proposing. I do not know why, I just have a feeling it will make it a lot harder on me, if her reaction would still be negative.

 

Truth is no matter how much you dress it up it before or after you propose, it doesn't alter the fact SHE doesn't agree with the pre-nup.

As soon as you propose without mentioning the pre-nup she is going to ask about the pre-nup isn't she? The pre-nup is now always going to be uppermost in her mind.

BUT once you put the pre-nup back on the table, you are back at stage one. Unless she has had a drastic change of mind in the meantime

 

I do not blame you in your position asking for a pre-nup, I would most likely do the same, but no matter what a lawyer has to say as regards protecting HER rights, the bottom line is that YOU are protecting YOUR money from her "grubby little paws" and from her point of view that just doesn't feel good.

[DreamP]

Do you think I should actually propose and give her the ring, than ask her for a pre-nup later? Would she likely be more willing to go in with me on a pre-nup, with some requests of her own as well, if I propose first, and go through that motion to show that I am for real in wanting marriage?

 

If I do that though, then she turns me down cause of asking for a pre-nup after, I will be more heartbroken, if after proposing. I do not know why, I just have a feeling it will make it a lot harder on me, if her reaction would still be negative.

 

What you should do is sit down and talk with your girlfriend. Figure things out together. Come to a compromise together. That is what marriage is all about. This will be a good test to see if you two are compatible and ready for marriage. If your gf will not even discuss the matter with you, then it really is time to hit the road. You also need to express your concerns to her about her finances. Don't do it in the "I'm bringing more money to the table" way, but more about how she is living pay-check-to-paycheck and you are concerned that she will not be financially responsible in the future as well. Talk about your future and how you are looking for long term financial security for both of you.

 

Don't propose until this is figured out.

[BettyDraper]

So now your girlfriend is giving you another ultimatum?

Never mind the prenup...it sounds like she's a manipulative and controlling person. Yes, three years is long enough to know if you want to marry someone. It's just that your girlfriend is showing signs of being inflexible, immature and self centered.

 

I know that you don't want to leave your girlfriend but you may want to rethink marrying someone who is in the habit of forcing your hand with "Do this or else!" type of statements.

 

Your girlfriend does not want to sign a prenup. She will just give you another ultimatum if you propose and then bring it up again. Giving into your girlfriend now will lead her to believe that all she has to do is throw tantrums and you will give in. Teach her how to treat you.

 

Neither of you are ready for marriage. Marriage is about commitment and compromise. It doesn't look like either of you can do that at this point. Best to go your separate ways and look for women who are more rational and behave like adults.

[Methodical]

IP,

 

Everything was fine before she asked if you'd require a pre-nup, right? Since then it has been a downward spiral followed by over reactive responses and ultimatums.

 

Normally after three years with a person, you know them pretty well. However, based on what I'm reading, she has shown a side of herself that you have never seen before, yes? That being the case, I'm not sure either of you are ready for marriage - definitely not when she is twisting your arm. It's time to take a step back, take a deep breath, slowly exhale and re-evaluate how viable and stable a marriage formed under those constraints would be.

[CarrieT]

I'm with the others; take a step back. Anyone that coerces, manipulates, or "ultimatums" their way into a relationship (or marriage) is immature. This does not bode well for a life-long relationship.

[bathtub-row]

I think any proposal I received after giving an ultimatum to a guy would be about as exciting as my parent's funerals. I don't know what she's thinking but I have to say that I think you were smart to wait so long to marry her. That must've been instinctive on your part.

 

Is this girl really young or something? I mean, I'm trying to grasp at the reason for her high level of immaturity, and why you find it appealing. Well now you're stuck because she has put you between the proverbial rock and a hard place. Is this type of "my way or the highway" behavior common for her? I can tell you that I used to be married to someone like that. And the operative words here are "used to be".