Is it wrong or 'jerk-ish' of me to ask my girlfriend for a pre-nup if we got married?

[elaine567]

How is him inviting her to live with him, not taking her into consideration? My gf only has $50 last time I checked so if I waited for her to pay for half of a house, it could take 30 years for her save up. Should I wait that long? I just would like a house now, and am at that stage in my life. Should I wait that long for her to save up for one as well, is that what you mean?

 

NO, but a serious relationship is about doing things together. No?

My friend had no choice in where they were then going to live, no choice in the type of house, no choice in the neighbourhood, no choice at all.

He made those decisions on his own one day, without consulting her or asking for her opinion. Sounds like that is what you are going to do too.

She thought she was in a partnership, not a dictatorship, so she left.

[d0nnivain]

Should I just get engaged tomorrow then, since her deadline is tomorrow, or she is leaving me, and forget the pre-nup then? What should I do that would be fair to her?

 

 

You know what . . . yeah go ahead & propose to her tomorrow on her arbitrary deadline. By all means let's do what the immature petulant woman who won't even talk about compromise wants because doing exactly as she demands is the only thing that she thinks will be fair to her. Really she has $50 to her name so she must have all the answers.

 

 

Do no under any circumstances go see a lawyer or follow that person's advice, despite how many people here have urged you do. Continue to make decisions based on what you think the law might be in your state.

 

 

You should have no problems with that approach. Your house will be great. Your business solvent & your marriage solid.

 

 

Good luck!

[lolablue17]

Oh my god - DON'T MARRY HER!!

--------------------------------------

 

If she was upset because you kill the romance and afraid you might have questionable intentions, I can understand her. Because in this reality you are in the financial\logical field, and she is in the love\romantic field, and you can find a bridge between the two approaches

 

But when she doesn't want even to listen to what's bothering you, and she's making a brutal explicit ultimatum, she leaves the romantic\love area, and jumps straight to the financial\logical field - your field.

 

So the case is not about "pure love VS logic and finance". It's only about a girl who wants to dictate her financial terms over you. You talk the $$$ language, she talks $$$ language, the same language.

 

If she was hurt by your attitude and the pre-nup issue because it kills romance, she would have behaved differently. In facts, she insists having a pre-nup, but on her terms, in which you have no protection and she gets all your money. This is the prenup she insists to have.

 

I'm not saying she's doing it intentionally and consciously, but she's after your money for sure. So here's the deal: If you want to marry her, you must put in all your money, while having no assurance she won't leave you immediately after you buy a mutual house.

 

If i love someone so much, i would be willing to give her all my money, but if she's making an ultimatum, i wouldn't be willing to give her even 1 cent!

 

Reject the ultimatum. If she's willing to lose you only because of that stupid ultimatum, she probably doesn't love you so much. If she loves you, she will understand her mistake, will take her ultimatum back, and will start talking to you as a loving person again.

Edited April 29, 2016 by lolablue17

[BlueIris]

I disagree. Marriage should be agreed upon by both parties and not forced by ultimatums.

 

If someone needs to say "Marry me or else!" then that is not a healthy way to start a life with someone.

 

That kind of behavior is controlling and coercive.

 

I know I wouldn’t wait 3 years at her age if I wanted marriage and children.

 

And he did agree to it. Some time in the past 3 years he said they’d get married this year, in 2016. And she stayed around.

 

Even though it’s now 2016 (his deadline) and he knows marriage and having children are a top priority for her (she’s 39), there's no ring, no proposal, and new conditions: she has to handle money better, save up (not much time left, but she can start), he has to buy a house (he hasn’t done it), he has to start a business (he hasn’t done it), he has to get a prenup to protect him financially (he hasn’t done it). I was all for his getting a prenup, but he didn't even talk to a lawyer.

 

She has no control over whether he does these things, so she either waits (months? years?) to see if they get done or she goes.

 

I don’t give “ultimatums.” I just leave. Which might be worse. I don’t drag a guy kicking and screaming into making a decision or taking action. If he doesn’t take action, that’s OK- I end it. And I get criticized for that!

 

He can say, “no.” And I think he should! They have clashing values and priorities, and I’m not judging whose priorities are right or better. But hers are the only ones that are truly time-bound, so my heart goes out to her.

 

Young women need to realize this and not apologize for it. If you want kids, you simply can’t hang around for years with someone indecisive or who throws up roadblocks. You don’t have a choice. It’s nature, a biological imperative.

 

If she was upset because you … might have questionable intentions, I can understand her.

 

Oh I think this is exactly it. It’s 3 years, a promise to marry this year, no ring, no proposal, and a bunch of new conditions. He’s ignoring the biological imperative altogether and knew this was about marriage and family for her, but he can’t even get to an attorney about a prenup. Oh, well…

[BettyDraper]

I know I wouldn’t wait 3 years at her age if I wanted marriage and children.

 

And he did agree to it. Some time in the past 3 years he said they’d get married this year, in 2016. And she stayed around.

 

Even though it’s now 2016 (his deadline) and he knows marriage and having children are a top priority for her (she’s 39), there's no ring, no proposal, and new conditions: she has to handle money better, save up (not much time left, but she can start), he has to buy a house (he hasn’t done it), he has to start a business (he hasn’t done it), he has to get a prenup to protect him financially (he hasn’t done it). I was all for his getting a prenup, but he didn't even talk to a lawyer.

 

She has no control over whether he does these things, so she either waits (months? years?) to see if they get done or she goes.

 

I don’t give “ultimatums.” I just leave. Which might be worse. I don’t drag a guy kicking and screaming into making a decision or taking action. If he doesn’t take action, that’s OK- I end it. And I get criticized for that!

 

He can say, “no.” And I think he should! They have clashing values and priorities, and I’m not judging whose priorities are right or better. But hers are the only ones that are truly time-bound, so my heart goes out to her.

 

Young women need to realize this and not apologize for it. If you want kids, you simply can’t hang around for years with someone indecisive or who throws up roadblocks. You don’t have a choice. It’s nature, a biological imperative.

 

 

 

Oh I think this is exactly it. It’s 3 years, a promise to marry this year, no ring, no proposal, and a bunch of new conditions. He’s ignoring the biological imperative altogether and knew this was about marriage and family for her, but he can’t even get to an attorney about a prenup. Oh, well…

 

If she was so concerned about her biological imperatives, she wouldn't have waited until age 39 to be concerned about marriage and starting a family. Since the risk of fertility difficulties and birth defects go up after age 35 for women, the OP's girlfriend should have been planning her marriage and family long before she was pushing 40.

 

I agree that women have to adhere to a certain timeline if we want children but that doesn't mean that becoming a mother takes priority over everything else in a relationship. I have seen many women end up as single moms because they married the first guy who wanted kids since they were too desperate to see red flags.

 

The conditions that the OP has are completely fair and leaving a man because he won't propose is perfectly fine. I wouldn't stay with a man who wouldn't propose but I certainly don't condone tantrums and forcing someone's hand to make a commitment.

[ironpony]

She said she only wanted to have children as of age 36, where she didn't want any before, and she was just waiting for the right guy.

 

Even though it’s now 2016 (his deadline) and he knows marriage and having children are a top priority for her (she’s 39), there's no ring, no proposal, and new conditions: she has to handle money better, save up (not much time left, but she can start), he has to buy a house (he hasn’t done it), he has to start a business (he hasn’t done it), he has to get a prenup to protect him financially (he hasn’t done it). I was all for his getting a prenup, but he didn't even talk to a lawyer.

 

She has no control over whether he does these things, so she either waits (months? years?) to see if they get done or she goes.

 

How am I suppose to go to a lawyer and get a pre-nup though, if she refuses to come with me. She needs to sign off on it too, so she is delaying it by not coming. I am ready to go, but need her to go to, don't I?

Edited May 1, 2016 by ironpony

[carhill]

The lawyers work it out and you each sign separately

[ironpony]

So we shouldn't go over it with a lawyer together at all then? Why is that, since we are both in it together, aren't we?

[BlueIris]

Just curious…. Do you and your GF live together?

 

If you do live together, are you both on the lease?

[ironpony]

No we don't.

 

But ever since she didn't like me wanting a pre-nup, I am on damage control now and have to make a decision. Either I tell her that she signs it, or I can't marry her, or I should propose to her first, which could give her re-assurance that I do want to marry her, and then bring up the pre-nup again later, if that's better.

 

I have to pick one of these two options or she will leave me possibly. Which is the better option to let her know that I love her, and for her to see things more positively?

[BlueIris]

Either I tell her that she signs it, or I can't marry her...

 

If you want to get married and you want a prenup, this is the most honest option, the one with integrity.

[d0nnivain]

How am I suppose to go to a lawyer and get a pre-nup though, if she refuses to come with me. She needs to sign off on it too, so she is delaying it by not coming. I am ready to go, but need her to go to, don't I?

 

 

Absolutely not. You can't both have the same lawyer. You get a lawyer to draft the agreement. You and your lawyer give the draft to her and her lawyer. She gets independent counsel who advises her on the best course of action for her. They offer changes they want in your draft & you negotiate. Its never a take it or leave it proposition. You both have input but with separate lawyers.

 

 

No lawyer would agree to represent you both. If you managed to get some lawyer to do that the agreement would almost certainly be invalid because you didn't have separate lawyers.

 

 

You can propose 1st but don't put down deposits until she signs.

Edited May 1, 2016 by d0nnivain

[ironpony]

Deposits on what exactly?

 

I thought that we would discuss both or our own terms, come to an agreement, and then go to one lawyer with those agreements and the lawyer can take it from there, otherwise it could turn into a bidding war of sorts, so to speak.

[d0nnivain]

Deposits on what exactly?

 

I thought that we would discuss both or our own terms, come to an agreement, and then go to one lawyer with those agreements and the lawyer can take it from there, otherwise it could turn into a bidding war of sorts, so to speak.

 

 

Deposits on the wedding . . . the venue, the invitations etc.

 

 

The lawyer will require a retainer up front then charge you hourly. Although some do pre nups for a flat fee.

 

 

If you do propose before you have a signed prenup I don't want you to have spent a bunch of non-refundable money on wedding related expenses so then if she doesn't sign you feel like you can't back out without losing your shirt.

[ironpony]

Okay thanks. For sure I wouldn't want to spend money on the wedding, if she will not sign. But do you think that I should propose first? If she is proposed to first, will that give her more insurance that I love her, and will she be more willing to to sign then, and is that the best way to do it?

[ufo8mycat]

Deposits on what exactly?

 

I thought that we would discuss both or our own terms, come to an agreement, and then go to one lawyer with those agreements and the lawyer can take it from there, otherwise it could turn into a bidding war of sorts, so to speak.

 

You can agree but you both need your own independent legal advice. Otherwise the agreement is invalid.

 

You will get legal advice. She will get advice on from a different lawyer on how what has been proposed impacts her, the pros and cons. Your lawyer should do the same.

 

One lawyer can't represent both of you.

[elaine567]

Has her ultimatum changed?

I thought she gave you one month to withdraw the pre-nup idea or she will break up with you.

 

If she is going to stick to her guns then she will break up with you as soon as you mention pre-nup, whether you do that before or after you propose.

[ironpony]

Well as far as the ultimatum changing I have had the flu for the past few days, and have been restricted to my bed, resting mostly. So I have bought myself some more time since I was sick, or so it seems, since I haven't seen her in person lately or talked much.

[CarrieT]

I thought that we would discuss both or our own terms, come to an agreement, and then go to one lawyer with those agreements and the lawyer can take it from there, otherwise it could turn into a bidding war of sorts, so to speak.

Nope.

 

You each have separate lawyers. In my case, my now-husband paid for my lawyer, but it absolutely had to be a separate counsel representing each of us.

 

As I indicated before, my lawyer wanted to fight for more on my behalf and I was the one who dialed it back. But I did get a few things regarding retirement that neither me nor my husband had considered.

[elaine567]

Well as far as the ultimatum changing I have had the flu for the past few days, and have been restricted to my bed, resting mostly. So I have bought myself some more time since I was sick, or so it seems, since I haven't seen her in person lately or talked much.

 

So have you actually seen and spoken to her since the fateful pre-nup ultimatum day?

[ironpony]

Okay thanks. Should I propose and give her the ring before bringing up the pre-nup again though? Will that put her in a more positive state of mind, if I give her more insurance, that I want to get married and I love her, or would this just make things worse?

[d0nnivain]

Okay thanks. For sure I wouldn't want to spend money on the wedding, if she will not sign. But do you think that I should propose first? If she is proposed to first, will that give her more insurance that I love her, and will she be more willing to to sign then, and is that the best way to do it?

 

I think proposing 1st would be the best sign of good faith on your part. Compromise has to be the watch word here. You are trying to form a partnership based on love.

 

 

When you do talk to her about the pre-nup please offer her the perspective I shared with you: that going through this exercise should prevent you from getting a divorce because it forced you to talk about the tough stuff in advance.

[ironpony]

Okay thanks. It's just harder on me if I propose. Like if I give her the ring, I propose, then wait a few days, then bring up the prenup again, and she then keeps the ring and leaves me, I will feel more ashamed, more heartbroken, like I have been had.

[carhill]

Experience varies but a forfeited engagement ring compared to a dissolution down the road, especially without a prenup, is, well, essentially nothing. I bought a really nice one and would have made that trade in a heartbeat if things went sideways during the engagement.

[ironpony]

When you say a forfeited engagement compared to disillunsioned along the road, which one is which, or which are you refferring to?

 

Are you saying that giving her the ring first, is better?