Particpant to Cheating, What constitutes responsibility?

[Sub]

Even worse, there are many people who hurt other people by passing judgements without knowing the entire story, or walking in their shoes. That is hurtful, but people will hurt others that way while insisting that it's wrong to do ANYTHING that will hurt a

 

The bottom line is unless the spouse is a psychopath, there is always a reason why the person is looking to go outside their marriage. It's either physical neglect or emotional neglect by a spouse who refuses to acknowledge their own faults or refuses to face them by seeking counseling.

 

Just so we're clear, you're of the opinion that ALL, or even most, infidelity lays at the feet of the BS. All A's are the result of emotional and physical neglect on the part of the BS?

[Liam1]

People hurt people or other living creatures all the time. All sophisticated people know about blood diamonds, yet most people still buy engagement rings.

 

Even semi precious stones are mined by people paid slave wages.

 

Most people know that the people who make clothing in china and India are paid slave wages, but most people by discount clothing, anyway.

 

Everyone who is aware realize that all the heating and cooling for their home, unless they went off the grid comes from polluters. Yet they still heat and cool their homes or work in buildings that are or visit the homes of friends who are. Or shop in Grocery stores, or buy farm raised vegetables in which the farmers drive polluting equipment

 

They fly on polluting airline planes, they use cell phones, Televisions, computers, whose manufacture destroys the environment with toxic chemicals.

 

People eat meat from factory farms where animals are virtually tortured before being slaughtered.

 

They buy honey from bees that are kept trapped in tiny box like structures and have their honey and wax taken by their breeder.

 

Everyone hurts other creatures and people know about the harm on some level, yet they engage in those things.

 

I sometimes run into people who try to claim they do none of the above, Which is almost impossible in a civilized society.

 

Still, when you start delving into their lifestyle, they have done all of the above. And then of course their cell phone rings and their faces turn red.

[Confused9999]

I think the responsibility lies with the WS.

 

The OM/OW maybe does not even know the WS is married and if they do can choose to be part of it or not, depending on their morals.

 

Ultimately they do not owe anything to the BS.. It is the WS that is breaking their Vows and risking their family.

 

It is not illegal to sleep with a married person!

 

Only time I would say it's wrong is if the OM/OW instigated and pursued the WS even after they found out they were married and WS specifically said they were not interested at first.

[Sub]

Only time I would say it's wrong is if the OM/OW instigated and pursued the WS even after they found out they were married and WS specifically said they were not interested at first.

 

I think this happens more often than you think. Whether consciously or subconsciously, I think a lot of OM/OW see a crack and know the right words to say to take advantage of that opportunity. Operative words in your post being "at first". Human beings as a whole can be very manipulative. OW/OM aren't so righteous and enlightened that they're immune to being so.

[ChickiePops]

I think the responsibility lies with the WS.

 

The OM/OW maybe does not even know the WS is married and if they do can choose to be part of it or not, depending on their morals.

 

Ultimately they do not owe anything to the BS.. It is the WS that is breaking their Vows and risking their family.

 

It is not illegal to sleep with a married person!

 

Only time I would say it's wrong is if the OM/OW instigated and pursued the WS even after they found out they were married and WS specifically said they were not interested at first.

 

Unfortunately most affairs involve OW/OM who are fully aware of the marriage and who just don't give a flying fart that they're participating in hurting a fellow human being.

[cocorico]

 

I find it really odd that people who place so little value on M get married in the first place. Why bother?

 

People marry for all kinds of reasons. My H and the xBW married because of tax reasons - she was quite clear about that.

 

 

 

Cocorico - I admire your openness, I really do. You are very brave to stand up and speak out. But you seem to be making a lot of excuses for what happened. I also get the feeling that under the bravado you are hurting a lot more than you would care to admit. Just an observation... Good luck. Will have my fingers crossed that you find yourself in a happier, more fulfilling situation.

 

Thank you - but I am in a very happy, fulfilling situation. I could not dream of better.

 

You misunderstand. I do value marriage. Or rather, I value commitment. Whether a paper has been signed or not is irrelevant.

 

But I think the full fault of the cheating is on the cheating partner. 100%. If my boyfriend cheats on me, that's HIS fault. Not whoever girl he cheated with. HE was the one who should have kept it in his pants.

 

This might be going off on a tangent, but I'm always annoyed when I see these memes on FB, that say something along the lines of "why you should date me" and one of the reasons is "I'm too ugly to cheat on you".

 

I don't want someone who is not cheating on me because he has no options!!! WTF?!?! I want someone who HAS options and chooses, every time, to not cheat.

 

I find this the same thing with the topic at hand. Sure, the affair partner could say no. And if every single person in the world said no, the cheating partner would not be able to cheat. But honestly, how is that any good??? Someone who isn't cheating on you because they CAN'T isn't really the person I'm looking for....

 

Absolutely! If my H looks elsewhere, that is *his* choice and his alone. It doesn't matter who tempts him or how, if he chooses to go there, *he* chose. I have no issue with wannabe OWs doing their damndest to deduce him if they want to.

[elaine567]

Unfortunately most affairs involve OW/OM who are fully aware of the marriage and who just don't give a flying fart that they're participating in hurting a fellow human being.

 

^^^ The reality of the situation.

It can "look" better by citing "love" and rolling out all the "excuses" in the world, but when it boils to it, both participants in the affair are responsible for the hurt the BS suffers when he/she finds out.

No-one gets a free pass, as it is NOT their spouse.

Both are adults knowingly choosing to engage in an activity that hurts another human being.

 

If I help a friend rob their Grandma's house, am I not at fault because she is not my Grandma? Not my fault, she has nothing to do with me. Not my fault, she is a stranger to me.

It is all on them, as it is THEIR Grandma and it is up to them to shoulder the blame, it has nothing whatsoever to do with me...

Yeah sure.

[cocorico]

Wow. That makes me feel really sorry for you. Are you going to just quietly move on after you pass the age of about 30 or so?? Because you will definitely never be able to "compete" in the physical department, which you seem to find of paramount importance, with the millions of women everywhere who are much younger and more attractive than you will be. Heck no matter how fit and beautiful you are right now even in your prime of about 23 or so, there are probably women who are even more so, who your husband might be looking at right this moment!

 

If relationships are analogous to being chosen for a competitive sport team, you might as well just obsolete yourself. Nobody comes up on top of that kind of competition when they are past peak physical performance. :(

 

For some of us, love, commitment and being there for each other is not about competing with other people for a spot. it's just between the two people involved. This kind of relationship is able to last into times of less than perfect physical, career, social, etc. performance peaks!!! Thank goodness for that, if I felt like I had to be competing with every woman on the planet to be loved by my guy, I would just join a celibate religious order or something!!

 

Gosh! I find the "physical department" paramount? Wherever did I claim that - or is that simply projection, or an attempt to discredit my opinion?

 

"After I pass the age of 30 or so" - you clearly have no idea how old I am, if you think 30 is in my future. You also don't know me at all if you think 23 was my prime. But if it helps you to dismiss my views by imposing your youth prejudice on them, please go ahead. I'm sure people reading here in that age group you just dissed by implication feel really affirmed, but at least you're honest about your prejudices so they know where they stand.

 

I do find it interesting that you equate "being the best choice" with "physical peak", and assume that to be youth-related, since nowhere did I state that nor imply that in my analogy. I'm sure that, right now, there are millions, even billions, of women who are physically "better" than I am, however you wish to judge that. I'm sure that was likely true at the point at which my H chose to be with me, "forsaking all others" (including the xBW) too. Unlike you, he didn't equate "best choice" with "physically hottest" or "best performance", but with "best fit" - for him, or as per my analogy, "best for the team".

 

Sure, in time he may look around and notice someone else that appears to be a "better fit" than me, and at that point he would have to weigh up the costs and benefits of cutting his losses with me and seeing if they were a better team than we are. That's life. I don't want him chained to me by a piece of paper. I want him to be where he wants to be - if he's with me, I want that to be because he chooses to be, not because some other woman that he would really prefer won't touch a MM.

[cocorico]

^^^ The reality of the situation.

It can "look" better by citing "love" and rolling out all the "excuses" in the world, but when it boils to it, both participants in the affair are responsible for the hurt the BS suffers when he/she finds out.

No-one gets a free pass, as it is NOT their spouse.

Both are adults knowingly choosing to engage in an activity that hurts another human being.

 

If I help a friend rob their Grandma's house, am I not at fault because she is not my Grandma? Not my fault, she has nothing to do with me. Not my fault, she is a stranger to me.

It is all on them, as it is THEIR Grandma and it is up to them to shoulder the blame, it has nothing whatsoever to do with me...

Yeah sure.

 

Robbery is against the law, and that is what you would be jailed for - not for your relationship to the victim. The "Crime" exists as a crime regardless of your - or their- relationship to the "victim".

 

Entering a relationship with someone who happens to have a spouse somewhere is not against the law almost everywhere, so no crime is committed for which to try you. The "crime" only exists by virtue of their relationship - which, since you don't share, renders it no crime at all.

Edited April 21, 2016 by cocorico

[elaine567]

Robbery is against the law, and that is what you would be jailed for - not for your relationship to the victim. The "Crime" exists as a crime regardless of your - or their- relationship to the "victim".

 

Entering a relationship with someone who happens to have a spouse somewhere is not against the law almost everywhere, so no crime is committed for which to try you. The "crime" only exists by virtue of their relationship - which, since you don't share, renders it no crime at all.

 

Keep telling yourself that...

[wmacbride]

Robbery is against the law, and that is what you would be jailed for - not for your relationship to the victim. The "Crime" exists as a crime regardless of your - or their- relationship to the "victim".

 

Entering a relationship with someone who happens to have a spouse somewhere is not against the law almost everywhere, so no crime is committed for which to try you. The "crime" only exists by virtue of their relationship - which, since you don't share, renders it no crime at all.

 

 

No one is suggesting someone be put in jail for being involved in an affair, or that it is a crime.

 

Is that your measure of whether something is wrong or not, that it is illegal?

 

There are huge numbers of things that are perfectly legal yet extremely hurtful, and that is the point that it boils right down to it.

 

Strip away all the trappings, and you are left with the very basic question of does a person who gets involved in an activity that hurt someone else partly responsible for that person hurting? It doesn't matter if the activity is legal or not, if the person doing it is fine with said activity or anything else.

 

 

If it takes two to have an affair, then both involved are the root cause of the hurt it has created in others. It doesn't matter why the mm or mw is cheating, whether or not there was "seduction" involved or it "just happened" or anything else.

[Liam1]

Robbery is against the law, and that is what you would be jailed for - not for your relationship to the victim. The "Crime" exists as a crime regardless of your - or their- relationship to the "victim".

 

Entering a relationship with someone who happens to have a spouse somewhere is not against the law almost everywhere, so no crime is committed for which to try you. The "crime" only exists by virtue of their relationship - which, since you don't share, renders it no crime at all.

 

Cocorico:

 

Also, the victim of a robbery or murder is not consenting to be robbed or murdered. They are a victim, not a willing eager participant.

 

In an affair, the two are consenting adults by definition of the word affair.

 

If one or the other is not consenting than it's rape, not an affair.

[2.50 a gallon]

As with most things in life, affairs are not always black and white.

As for the husbands feelings of the married women that I shared a bed with, I never cared one whit what he thought.

And in a couple of instances, was pleased to discover that he had found out.

[Sub]

As with most things in life, affairs are not always black and white.

As for the husbands feelings of the married women that I shared a bed with, I never cared one whit what he thought.

And in a couple of instances, was pleased to discover that he had found out.

 

Correct me if I'm not remembering correctly, but weren't the H's somehow connected to your W's infidelity, either as instigators or participants? Not judging, because part of me admires what you did. But in effect, by getting a measure of revenge, would you say you placed some of the responsibility for the A at their feet?

[Tayla]

Robbery is against the law, and that is what you would be jailed for - not for your relationship to the victim. The "Crime" exists as a crime regardless of your - or their- relationship to the "victim".

 

Entering a relationship with someone who happens to have a spouse somewhere is not against the law almost everywhere, so no crime is committed for which to try you. The "crime" only exists by virtue of their relationship - which, since you don't share, renders it no crime at all.

 

Gee, some states will disagree with this above generalization:

 

Although adultery is a misdemeanor in most of the states with laws against it, some — including Michigan and Wisconsin — categorize the offense as a felony. Punishments vary widely by state. In Maryland, the penalty is a paltry $10 fine. But in Massachusetts, an adulterer could face up to three years in jail.

 

 

Pretty sure a misdemeanor and a felony are both terms used in court law for a reason.

 

In Middle eastern countries its not only a law (primarily placed upon the female) , most can be stoned or harmed and its all completely encouraged to impart on the unfaithful.

 

An Accessory to the crime is still considered accountable in the laws of the land of residency.

 

Civil court cases have often held that the foundation of infidelity granted awards for the social stigma and financial impact it had on the Betrayed spouse. Both the Wayward and the offending partner have had tort cases garnered against them. Puryear vs Devin is an example of the "mistress" being held accountable. So the courts have spoken.

 

while it may be more common and oddly acceptable to forgive affairs and the partners, the courts do have venues to seek damages under civil law.

[WasOtherWoman]

Well, I also believe that it is illegal in Mississippi law to have a second illegitimate child (one is apparently ok) and it is illegal to feed any butter substitute not prescribed by a doctor in any state institution in Wisconsin....

 

just sayin'. There are some wacky laws out there.

 

While I certainly do not condone adultery and i think it is wrong, it should not be illegal, that's just crazy.

 

edited to add: you should not be able to use the court and tax payer money to punish your spouse over a personal matter.

Edited April 21, 2016 by WasOtherWoman

[Sub]

I don't think the legality of those things was the point. Man, some people take the fun out of analogies.

[WasOtherWoman]

I don't think the legality of those things was the point. Man, some people take the fun out of analogies.

 

I was referring specifically to post #116.... i really legality WAS the point of that post, no?

[jen1447]

Gee, some states will disagree with this above generalization:

 

Although adultery is a misdemeanor in most of the states with laws against it, some — including Michigan and Wisconsin — categorize the offense as a felony. Punishments vary widely by state. In Maryland, the penalty is a paltry $10 fine. But in Massachusetts, an adulterer could face up to three years in jail.

 

 

Pretty sure a misdemeanor and a felony are both terms used in court law for a reason.

 

Archaic law - the last time someone was prosecuted for adultery in Michigan was 1971, and that'll never happen again. Most states are moving (or have already moved) to abolish long-outdated laws like that, and for all practical purposes they're unenforceable, with no prosecutors taking any sort of interest, even where they're still on the books.

[Tayla]

I was referring specifically to post #116.... i really legality WAS the point of that post, no?

 

Can you rephrase please as the statement " I really legality WAS the point of that post"

I read it twice and each time the same result, made no sense.

 

the topic was "responsibility on the cheater or the accomplice", I beleive my post addressed the matter from a civil level.

[velvette]

Not sure why legality is even being discussed.

 

 

That has never in all of history, across all cultures, been the sole source of whether or not something is right or wrong.

[minimariah]

An analogous situation: hockey trials. The team has 11 players, plus maybe a reserve. 20 kids show up for the trials. I've never been much into sport, but I've decided to give it a go, and it turns out I'm really nippy on the left wing,many I get given a place in the team. Tina, who played left wing last hockey season, is devastated not to make the team.

 

but that's a bad analogy --- the consequences of Tina being kicked out of the team do NOT match the consequences of a divorce, for one. especially with children being involved. second - consent. Tina knows the rules and she consented to other folks trying out for her spot - she is aware of the fact that's she is competing against other players... daily. she was told that on the 1st day - if you want to keep the position, you gotta be better than the others + your spot is always opened. so no one promised Tina the spot forever. in adultery - the spouse isn't aware that someone else is competing for the position & certainly gave no consent.

 

I find it really odd that people who place so little value on M get married in the first place. Why bother?

 

few people get married thinking they'll cheat. in the beginning - most do believe their vows but... things change. people change. their view on their marriage changes. sounds odd - but being an adulterer doesn't necessarily mean you don't value marriage - it just means you don't value THAT marriage with THAT person for this or that reason.

[minimariah]

If the ow doesn't care, fine, but to pretend they don't share some of the cause for the bs being hurt is disingenuous.

 

the other man & the other man certainly do bear some responsibility - but in my experience... MOSTLY all three parties (the BS; WS; the other person) bare some responsibility and did contribute to the situation they're in.

 

but if you tell that to someone who is going through infidelity - it won't go over well. to heal, it's actually better to put all the blame exclusively on the WS. people usually have a really hard time staying in the middle so if you tell a very hurt BS that the other person, indeed, is responsible to some extent - they won't let go and they'll focus on an entirely wrong person.

 

so it's actually better to think of the other person as someone who has 0% responsibility - it helps focusing on the real problems and the relationship you are a part of.

[WasOtherWoman]

Can you rephrase please as the statement " I really legality WAS the point of that post"

I read it twice and each time the same result, made no sense.

 

the topic was "responsibility on the cheater or the accomplice", I beleive my post addressed the matter from a civil level.

 

My apologies, that certainly does not make sense. Let me try again.... I really think legality WAS the point of that post. (your post, which it was, correct?)

 

Yes, your post addressed the matter from a civil level, absolutely.

 

The point of my post was that there are tons or archaic and ridiculous laws still on the books of many states. Prosecuting adultery is one of them, in my opinion. Not that I think adultery is ok, i just think it does not belong in our court system.

 

edited to add: as far as where the responsibility lies, several pages ago I took full responsibility for my part of hurting another person. As "the accomplice", I absolutely feel i have culpability.

Edited April 22, 2016 by WasOtherWoman

[purplesorrow]

the other man & the other man certainly do bear some responsibility - but in my experience... MOSTLY all three parties (the BS; WS; the other person) bare some responsibility and did contribute to the situation they're in.

 

but if you tell that to someone who is going through infidelity - it won't go over well. to heal, it's actually better to put all the blame exclusively on the WS. people usually have a really hard time staying in the middle so if you tell a very hurt BS that the other person, indeed, is responsible to some extent - they won't let go and they'll focus on an entirely wrong person.

 

so it's actually better to think of the other person as someone who has 0% responsibility - it helps focusing on the real problems and the relationship you are a part of.

What part did you play in your husband's affair?