Crazy stupid.... commitmentphobia

[Frank13]

I don't know much about the personality types fearful avoidant or dismissive avoidant, maybe my ex is one of those.

 

What I do know is that he operates with irrational thought processes that sabotage his relationship(s). And that's the only truth. I can accept that I wasn't the "one"... but I also know that as long as he is this way, he will never know that he met the "one".

 

I am an independent woman and I always thought that love is nice but it's not a MUST to live a full life. I approach my relationships with a "let's see what happens" attitude but I can be very loving once that love is earned (though that only happened with 2 guys, including this ex) I guess my ex picked up those vibes and that's why he was pushing for commitment way too soon. But it was never my idea. I never gave him a reason to feel trapped. That's why I didn't understand why he freaked out about moving abroad with me when I wasn't even sure if I spend the next month with him!

 

As we started talking more about it, the puzzle pieces came together. He has an irrational fear of commitment/planning. Not just with me, but with his mother, friends, profession. But he cannot break up with his mother, his friends or his profession (as that's what he loves the most) so with them, he lives under constant stress. There are physical symptoms, too: twitching neck (which i noticed earlier), bodyheat, knot in his stomach and a choking feeling in his throat. He lives with this 24/7.

 

The "second voice", creating the above symptoms and the fear and distance between us, runs on autopilot, it's always there doubting me. If I don't give him any reason to freak out, the second voice will create it. He also identified certain triggers with his therapist and apparently it all comes from his relationship with his mother.

(It happened once that he tried to break up with me, after he got angry with his mother!)

 

But I thought I could handle all this, in the name of love. Even now I think that maybe, I gave up on him too soon.

 

But I can't describe how emotionally exhausting is to be with him. When you cannot plan the next 5 minutes knowing that anything you say or do might trigger his fears... when he criticizes things in you which you cannot help.. when he pushes you away after activities that he initiated. It got to a point where I was questioning my own sanity.. Especially because all the love and sweetness and deep-deep connectedness was still there up until the moment we broke up. I was presented two realities and I didn't know what to believe anymore (even though I knew where all this was coming from..)

 

No matter how we label it, he is not in a place to date right now.. and he has a long way to go.. and that's why I have to stay strong. I know he will come back begging (as he already texted me last night)- but I have to remind myself of how big of a mind**** it is to be in a relationship with him.

 

I usually don't quote entire messages but you described commitmentphobes perfectly.

 

I am the same with the planning. I can make plans to do something myself and am okay with that because I know I can always bail or change them, but making plans with someone I was dating was a disaster. It could be the thing I wanted to do with them more than anything, but as soon as I made the plan with them I felt I was locked in. It didn't have anything to do with not wanting to do the activity. It was just the pressure (irrational I know) of it being set. Of a commitment or a "you have to do this because you said you would" thoughts I had.

 

I always wished I could do the "lets see what happens" but as soon as I thought I got the woman, my thought was "this is forever until I end it". Of course that was enormous pressure. However, as soon as I ended it the pressure was gone and guess what I wanted? The woman back.

 

Honestly, they only way to keep a commitmentphobe is to never give into them. Never let them think they have you. They will chase you forever. But then what kind of relationship is that where you have to hide your feelings and worry that if they detect that they might have you, it will end.

[Frank13]

I do understand what you mean about the book though, some of the stories also made me think: "right, this makes the whole world is commitment phobic!" There's a part about how not having pictures on your wall makes you commitment phobic. I got so angry at the book that I redecorated my apartment in 2 weeks But I still think that there's a lot of truth in it...

 

 

Umm, I never read the book. I am a commitmentphobe and never put a single picture up on my wall in my entire adult life. Interesting.

[Frank13]

People don't fear commitment, they fear settling.

 

Absolutely wrong.

[keiji]

I don't know much about the personality types fearful avoidant or dismissive avoidant, maybe my ex is one of those.

 

What I do know is that he operates with irrational thought processes that sabotage his relationship(s). And that's the only truth. I can accept that I wasn't the "one"... but I also know that as long as he is this way, he will never know that he met the "one".

 

I am an independent woman and I always thought that love is nice but it's not a MUST to live a full life. I approach my relationships with a "let's see what happens" attitude but I can be very loving once that love is earned (though that only happened with 2 guys, including this ex) I guess my ex picked up those vibes and that's why he was pushing for commitment way too soon. But it was never my idea. I never gave him a reason to feel trapped. That's why I didn't understand why he freaked out about moving abroad with me when I wasn't even sure if I spend the next month with him!

 

As we started talking more about it, the puzzle pieces came together. He has an irrational fear of commitment/planning. Not just with me, but with his mother, friends, profession. But he cannot break up with his mother, his friends or his profession (as that's what he loves the most) so with them, he lives under constant stress. There are physical symptoms, too: twitching neck (which i noticed earlier), bodyheat, knot in his stomach and a choking feeling in his throat. He lives with this 24/7.

 

The "second voice", creating the above symptoms and the fear and distance between us, runs on autopilot, it's always there doubting me. If I don't give him any reason to freak out, the second voice will create it. He also identified certain triggers with his therapist and apparently it all comes from his relationship with his mother.

(It happened once that he tried to break up with me, after he got angry with his mother!)

 

But I thought I could handle all this, in the name of love. Even now I think that maybe, I gave up on him too soon.

 

But I can't describe how emotionally exhausting is to be with him. When you cannot plan the next 5 minutes knowing that anything you say or do might trigger his fears... when he criticizes things in you which you cannot help.. when he pushes you away after activities that he initiated. It got to a point where I was questioning my own sanity.. Especially because all the love and sweetness and deep-deep connectedness was still there up until the moment we broke up. I was presented two realities and I didn't know what to believe anymore (even though I knew where all this was coming from..)

 

No matter how we label it, he is not in a place to date right now.. and he has a long way to go.. and that's why I have to stay strong. I know he will come back begging (as he already texted me last night)- but I have to remind myself of how big of a mind**** it is to be in a relationship with him.

 

I hadn't seen this thread before, but I'll read it carefully in the next few days. I'm basically that guy. I hope I can give some good insights and perhaps learn a bit more about myself.

[rita123]

I usually don't quote entire messages but you described commitmentphobes perfectly.

 

It could be the thing I wanted to do with them more than anything, but as soon as I made the plan with them I felt I was locked in. It didn't have anything to do with not wanting to do the activity. It was just the pressure (irrational I know) of it being set.

 

Hi Frank13, thanks for contributing to this thread from the commitment-phobic side. You sound very similar to my ex in terms of planning.

I also know that it had nothing to do with me pressuring him into doing things. He was actually gonna visit me in May and asked me to invite over all my friends for a dinner party. He even told me to create a facebook event with the tagline "MY boyfriend is cooking!!". I didn't end up creating the event but as soon as I told ONE friend about it, he freaked out again. He admitted this on our breakup call 2 weeks prior to the event...

 

It's the ****tiest feeling to know that you are not at fault, he is the one "trapping" himself but neither of you can do anything about it

 

Ironically, even now that he lost me, he is doing the same about plans. He reached out about visiting me and I played it cool, asked him to send me his travel dates. And of course, now he disappeared because that would mean committing to a date to visit.. I think I will never see him again..

[Emilia]

The problem is that you and the men you date have a problem with boundaries. You are attracted to drama and whirlwind romance. Those are inevitably fail but you will be taken in by the next crazy guy who tells you he loves you 2 weeks in and moves in at the drop of the hat. A guy who doesn't know you.

 

The reason why getting to know someone slowly is important is that you need to determine whether you are compatible long term, that takes time and a bit of work. It can be exciting but it's the sort of excitement that comes from someone actually being interesting and having a personality, being able to hold a conversation, is informed, makes an effort in bed, etc. Not from creating the drama of push-pull.

 

It's not commitment issues that guy has, it's him and you and those similar to you who lack the ability to build sustainable relationships.

[rita123]

So my ex is finally coming to visit. He's probably staying in my city for a week. He asked to meet the day he arrives...

 

In the meantime, however, I got myself into a rebound "relationship". This was again one of those guys who saw me sad and stayed around. I've been dating him for 3 weeks now, which I know is short but we spent a lot of time together. He's very caring and patient. There's no BS with him about plans. We are planning to go to the seaside together and do other fun things. And I know for sure that he won't freak out about "commitment". So refreshing after the ex...

 

He also knows that my feelings are not sorted and he is a bit jealous of my ex but I told him that all I want is to move on. Last friday we went out and he introduced me to his friends as his girlfriend. So I guess he really wants things to get serious.

 

I'm so torn. I have no idea what my ex wants. Closure? Winning me back? Just to deliver my bear? It doesn't matter. But now I also feel guilty for the new guy... I mean, I was honest to him about my broken heart but I still feel I'm being unfair to him if I meet my ex.

 

So I'm not 100% sure what I'm gonna do. If this feeling of throwing up stays then I won't meet my ex. I don't want to break down like a psycho in front of him. My dignity comes first. As for the new guy... I guess I will be just honest with him as I was before, even if that means losing him too...

[starryeyed12]

This is classic narcasstic behavior. Coming on abnormally strong in the beginning, only to be out of reach once he had his claws sunk in to your heart. But really, no one can be in love that soon...infatuated, yes. Narcissists love getting the independent ones to fall for them. They like the challenge and will say and do whatever to get you hooked. Overly nice, overly friendly, overly needy for attention.

 

This is a game, whether you both realize it or not, and you can't win. No one really does. Except, you hurt more than he ever can or will. You can waste years of your life trying to play and win that game, but it's never going to end the way you want it to. Let go of the dream, the fantasy of what you want it to be. Stop making excuses for him and for why things played out and the what ifs.

 

If you seek closure, I encourage you to research more about narcasstic relationships and excessive compassion syndrome. The faster you walk away from a hot mess the better. Run, in fact! Find out why you're into the broken birds. There's still plenty of time for you to find real love.

 

Go NC.

 

Good luck.

 

 

I already wrote another thread where I explain how my ex is a genuine, loving guy with a severe case of commitment phobia.

 



But what if he’s not?


 


What if he’s a narcissistic/ sociopath manipulator who just played the commitment phobia card against me? 

I know that the result is the same and I should move on. But I feel so mind****ed.. I don't understand why I put up with this guy.

 

As I explain in my previous posts, I really thought he just can't help his CP. We had some honest conversations about this and I know it affects many areas of his life.. he started therapy and it seems like he really wanted to change. He said I was the love of his life and it's our fight together. I still want to believe that it was real love.

 

But today I got these dark thoughts questioning whether there is more to it and whether I was a victim of emotional abuse.. Of course, it can also mean that I am only doing this to accept it's OVER. (well, whatever it takes to heal, I want that!)

 


Anybody experienced something similar with not CP but narcissist? Or can it be because he was both?

 



Flags:

- He is concerned about facebook. He doesn’t post anything because he is scared he wouldn't get any likes. However, he wanted to post an album of us (even after our short break) and later, wanted change the status to relationship. When I told him that I couldn't give less ****s about Facebook and that I’m not with him to show off, he seemed irritated.

 

There were times when I thought I was his trophy girlfriend. He sent pictures of me to his friends, and he even downloaded a picture of me (from my own fb) from years ago when we were not even together. I found it super awkward that he just downloads stuff he had nothing to do with, only to send it to his friends.

 

- He is worried about himself. He spends hours finding “illnesses” or personality profiles to understand himself better. He is admittedly hypochondriac and also has a fear of flying, fear of spiders. Once he self diagnosed himself with HSP (i know, not an illness) and when I said “ah you always find something” he got angry, it almost ended in a breakup. When I brought up commitment phobia he spent days researching and analyzing himself.. (and this was also enough for him to start therapy and read self help books) 
Maybe he was so receptive to my diagnosis because he just LIKES that everything is about him? and that he could use CP to get away with his manipulations? What if the fact that he is hypohondriac makes him believe that he's CP when he's not? (I'm telling you, I'm going crazy..)

 

- He always got irritated when i made jokes, he thought I was laughing at him- which sometimes turned into me begging for forgiveness. And of course, I really believed that I was evil for laughing at him. In the meantime, he said I was the funniest girl he’s ever met which made me joke even more.. so i was trapped in between these 2 expectations.

 

- He thinks that he’s special. I never thought it’s too bad but he often said things like “I feel so lonely, no-one sees the world like I do”.. and **** like that. When I told him that he had no clue how everyone else sees the world, he got irritated.

 

- Sex: he only wanted to have sex on his terms, he was turned off most times I initiated it. He said it’s because I’m more seductive when he was doing the chasing. WTF. Is this really normal from a loving guy?

 


- Love bombing from day one. He used way too many heart emojis and kisses “XXXXX” for my taste. I actually told him that I need less of that, he didn’t listen.. he bought me flowers, cakes, was very generous with money, even though I earned more... (at the time, i thought we just had different styles when it comes to dating..)

 

- He didn’t respect my boundaries. Once he showed up at my work and pushed me into making out with him in front of my office (“Are you embarrassed of me?”) He didn’t understand either that showing up at my door whenever he wanted is wrong. I got heart palpitations many times because I never knew who to expect when the doorbell rang. (this happened mostly when we were on a break but even after we got back together!) But I have to add that he temporarily lived with me for 1 month when he had his own key so maybe he just thought my home was his home.


 

- He trusted me with his email and social accounts. He always left his email and Facebook open on his computer and offered to give me his passwords. He said it was a lack of trust on my end that I wasn’t willing to do the same. Sometimes he’d pick up my phone and read messages from my friends and when I got angry he blamed it on me not trusting him.

 

- He was very very nice to my friends. He knows what to say and when to say it, and a good listener.... and what did he talk the most about to my friends? ME. So of course, he easily convinced everyone how much he's into me. Likewise, he always praised my friends to me. He said it only made him love me more, having such a great friend group.

 

[]

 

There are more examples but the post is already too long. 

I have read the book “He’s scared she’s scared” and I know that all of the above could be just classic CP behavior. However, I can’t help but think there was more to it. Especially after he was open about his CP, it felt like he could explain everything away with that!! Is it really all that simple?

 



I have to add that this guy was able to show compassion and genuine (?) interest towards me most times... he helped me through quitting my job and in general, a bad period in my life. He made me believe that I can follow my childhood dreams. He showed me love in the smallest things... So should I hold on to this... or realize that I have stockholm syndrome? I really dont know anymore...

 


We broke up because I had a cold. He got irritated and said he doesn't want to catch it (ON SKYPE?) and he said other mean things. When I confronted him… he again said: "you know that it is my CP talking". But couldn't it also be a narcissist who has no use of a play doll when she’s sick?



 

Well what matters is that I dumped him after this for good. And now I’m healing… but please let me know if you agree that there was more to this than CP.... I need to file this story on the right shelves in my brain.

[guest569]

When we met, it was like a mini-version of our past relationship, lots of love and sweetness, but also a bit of his commitment-phobic weirdness: some criticizing, gaslighting, picking me apart. I really thought I can handle it because we were both aware why he is doing it.(

 

No! Knowing "why" he is doing these things does not mean that you should have to "handle it"! That makes it sound acceptable. You said in your original post all these horrid things that he has done to you, and said it was never a healthy relationship. You have since moved into a new relationship but still want to meet him again to see what he has to say, or get a stuffed bear returned, or "closure "

 

I can't say what you should do. But this relationship sounded pretty awful for you and you sound happy in the new one (although you've had one foot back waiting for your ex to wake up, and to change, it seems like you have a little bit of hope still, otherwise you wouldn't be fretting and just tell him to drop the bear off and leave you alone?? I dont see much good coming from this meeting, especially for your new boyfriend who is already jealous ..and rightly so!!)

 

My ex had some of these commitment phobic and narcissitic traits too. He told me within a few weeks he was falling in love with me but that just crumbled and eventually i broke it off. Very reluctantly. It hurts so much. Please remember your first post and remember the bad stuff. Remember that in spite of that, you took him back for a 2nd chance (so did I with my ex after a 1week breakup too, by the way!!) And realized that was a mstake and that he didnt change!

Edited July 12, 2016 by smiley1

[rita123]

starryeyed12, smiley1:

Thanks for your comments. They really helped me preparing for the meeting so I was able to handle him with a clear head.

 

I still don't know if he's truly a narcissist or "just" commitment phobe. But he seemed to be in so much more pain than I am. He got fired from his job (which he loved) and got into a dark place after the breakup...

 

He is trying to get his **** together now. He didn't want to win me back, he didn't ask for friendship. He apologized for everything and he asked me to forget he ever existed. He promised he will not return to my country for a while. He said he was still in therapy and that the way he is now, he can't have a girlfriend for many years. He asked me to move on and wished me well. He cried and hugged until the last moment. It all happened just one hour ago, so I'm in a bit of a shock now. But I hope this was the closure that I needed.

 

The new boyfriend is acting weird. He is sarcastic and he's teasing me about the ex. Btw, I didn't tell my ex about him... it felt irrelevant...

But if the new guy won't give me a break, I will just break up - I was only being honest and he signed up for this. I still can't promise that my heart is 100% open for him. If he doesn't accept this (and he really doesn't have to..) , we are better off without each other anyway..