International views on Cheating or Affairs ?

[dichotomy]

I noticed we get a fair amount of international members here on LS.

 

Having traveled very little outside of North America - I wonder, do peoples views of affairs differ from Country to Country ? or culture to culture ?

 

The Stereotypical "meh" seems to be associated with France, and I had a coworker once who spent a year there in the 80's reinforce this view. or maybe Italy as well.

 

Can anyone enlighten an American? (ya I know when is the last time you heard that)

[Arieswoman]

In those Islamic countries that operate under Sharia Law, women get either beheaded or stoned to death for adultery. (Not sure about their AP)

 

Maybe that wasn't what you were looking for?

[minimariah]

hmmm... it is different in Europe.

 

then again, Europe has its own differences. in general - affairs are always frowned upon. i do think that Europeans forget faster; folks adapt faster - it is painful and hurtful... but not really a big deal. with Americans - i noticed - it is a HUGE deal. it is something they have difficulties getting over and often, they allow the fact that they were cheated on... to shape their entire lives.

 

Europeans are not like that. it's like - oh, well! sucks - with us. when i was in the UK though... it was interesting because people were AGAINST the affairs and commented rudely on those who had one but at the same time, they never dared to actually say anything to those people's faces. so it's like... they disapprove it but at the same time, it's entertaining for them. source of gossip.

 

it really depends though. you always have more liberal and more conservative places BUT i will say one thing - it is not true that affairs are meh in France. French are far from these free sexual beings, opened to everything. in France, folks just don't really expect lifelong fidelity but they do react negatively when discussing affairs.

[dichotomy]

In those Islamic countries that operate under Sharia Law, women get either beheaded or stoned to death for adultery. (Not sure about their AP)

 

Maybe that wasn't what you were looking for?

 

 

I suspect the OM does not get the same treatment as the WW.

[dichotomy]

hmmm... it is different in Europe.

 

then again, Europe has its own differences. in general - affairs are always frowned upon. i do think that Europeans forget faster; folks adapt faster - it is painful and hurtful... but not really a big deal. with Americans - i noticed - it is a HUGE deal. it is something they have difficulties getting over and often, they allow the fact that they were cheated on... to shape their entire lives.

 

Europeans are not like that. it's like - oh, well! sucks - with us. when i was in the UK though... it was interesting because people were AGAINST the affairs and commented rudely on those who had one but at the same time, they never dared to actually say anything to those people's faces. so it's like... they disapprove it but at the same time, it's entertaining for them. source of gossip.

 

it really depends though. you always have more liberal and more conservative places BUT i will say one thing - it is not true that affairs are meh in France. French are far from these free sexual beings, opened to everything. in France, folks just don't really expect lifelong fidelity but they do react negatively when discussing affairs.

 

 

thanks

 

Wasn't it some big shots funeral in Italy where the mistress followed behind the wife in the processional ? No big thing ?

[dichotomy]

by the way - one OM from NZ claimed (to a clueless American) that cheating was just a normal part of the culture there.

[Satu]

Its more to do with economic class than nationality.

 

 

If the poor or working class have affairs, its seen as slightly disgusting.

 

If the rich and powerful have affairs, its expected, and considered to be interesting and entertaining.

 

 

So don't have an affair if you can't afford it

[Liam1]

I noticed we get a fair amount of international members here on LS.

 

Having traveled very little outside of North America - I wonder, do peoples views of affairs differ from Country to Country ? or culture to culture ?

 

The Stereotypical "meh" seems to be associated with France, and I had a coworker once who spent a year there in the 80's reinforce this view. or maybe Italy as well.

 

Can anyone enlighten an American? (ya I know when is the last time you heard that)

 

In the more civilized westernized world Denmark, Japan, France. Finland, Italy and Iceland to some degree but not as out in the open as the first three.

 

In all Divorce is considered far worse.

 

In Finland they call affairs, parallel relationships.

 

Most of Europe is very laid back and "Meh" about it. The progressive Europeans like to keep their noses out of what goes on behind locked doors with two consenting adults.

 

Europe has totally decriminalized adultery and has stated that if Turkey was to keep adultery as a criminal offense, then it would be a deterrent toward acceptance into the European Union.

 

Their attitude is they each expect the other to have a sexual fling type of affair in a long marriage and they trust each other to keep it discreet to protect the marriage.

 

America and England are very conflicted about affairs, although some estimates are that 80 percent of married people have engaged in one but they don't want to admit to it or talk about it.

 

My wife has told out MC that she was more surprised by the affair than hurt and would have been far more hurt and devastated had I simply handed her divorce papers.

 

My wife is very independent and not possessive and earns as much money as I do. She has always been strong and independent, so she does not need to stay married for financial reasons.

 

IMO, if a marriage can not withstand a sexual fling type of affair, than it's not a very strong marriage, anyway.

 

In a handful of states, Michigan is one, infidelity is a misdemeanor, but in all the states where is is a minor crime, it has not been prosecuted in a very very long time, the USA.

 

I have never visited Islamic countries but I have read that the Islamic countries frown on infidelity and are typically much stricter on the woman than the man, Sadly.

[mellywell]

i do think that Europeans forget faster; folks adapt faster - it is painful and hurtful... but not really a big deal. with Americans - i noticed - it is a HUGE deal. it is something they have difficulties getting over and often, they allow the fact that they were cheated on... to shape their entire lives.

 

I think this is because of the multi-million dollar marriage and relationship counseling industry in America.

[Satu]

I think this is because of the multi-million dollar marriage and relationship counseling industry in America.

 

Thats just as big in Europe.

 

Huge.

[Mrs. John Adams]

My guess is that in countries where women are subservient to men....men who cheat are more tolerated....while the women who cheat may be punished.

 

It is difficult to place judgment on an entire countries views of infidelity....when it is such an individual tragedy.

 

To say that...the French...for example have a "meh" no big deal attitude about affairs is not really a fair assessment. Individuals living in France may think infidelity is quite a big deal.

 

The same attitude exists in America. There are certainly individuals who think infidelity is no big deal...while others are completely devastated.

 

Even here at loveshack....some people don't think it is all that terrible...while others believe their world has been destroyed.

[thecrucible]

In those Islamic countries that operate under Sharia Law, women get either beheaded or stoned to death for adultery. (Not sure about their AP)

 

The sad thing is that in some countries they don't even have to be guilty of it and a woman can be severely punished for adultery even if she has been raped.

[thecrucible]

The perspective on the French and Italians being widely guilty of affairs probably comes from the French and Italian presidents being known to have affairs and it being in the public domain but the population at large being unconcerned about it. I think this is more to do with what people expect from their leaders rather than what they think of adultery as a whole. The population probably admire a strong leader and don't think that the leader has to set a moral example, so the political and moral sphere are separate in their eyes - as long as they are doing a good job, why does their private life matter? I think this is probably more their perspective than condoning adultery.

[TaraMaiden2]

Its more to do with economic class than nationality.

 

 

If the poor or working class have affairs, its seen as slightly disgusting.

 

If the rich and powerful have affairs, its expected, and considered to be interesting and entertaining.

 

 

So don't have an affair if you can't afford it

 

Actually, I get this.

It was said that Princess Diana's mistake was to complain about her husband's infidelity. Kings and Princes of Wales have had mistresses and affairs for centuries. In fact, it's almost an expectation, a perk of the job, if you will. Her biggest mistake was to make a public fuss about it - and then do likewise.

 

Then, look at the tabloids revealing gossip about so called 'celebreetees' straying from the marital bed, and it's sensationalist headlines like "Dayneesha's sexy romp with the Pool-cleaner, leaves hubby seeking comfort in Nanny's arms!" and it's sordid, messy and distasteful....

[wmacbride]

I don't know about the French in France, but Quebecois and Le Acadie from here don't look kindly on affairs, especially the women.

 

In my experience in speaking with women form a variety of cultural backgrounds, they don't have a "meh" attitude about cheating. It hurts them every bit as much. In some cases, the men have the "meh" view, with the caveat that it's they who are cheating and not the women.

 

I've noticed that this is more common in patriarchal cultures where women are not viewed very highly.

[TaraMaiden2]

I don't know, generally speaking, what the prevalent attitude is in Italy regarding infidelity.... Many times, the guy gets 'excused' as it's something guys do, isn't it? I mean, men will be men, and wives need to understand a guy needs to be understood....

Wives who are cheated on, are regarded with sympathy and understanding, but are subliminally told "get over it, join the club , we've all been there and we always will..."

 

However, a friend of my mother, in Italy, has a daughter who was cheated on. When she found out, (her husband didn't know his secret had been rumbled) she calmly went into the kitchen, chopped up a really hot green chllli pepper, and smeared the juices on the inside of every pair of his underpants, then carefully folded them all back up again in his underwear drawer.

And just waited for the fun to begin.

[Lady2163]

We need to have a Filipino weigh in, male and female.

 

I spent time there in the 80s. Every man who could afford it, was probably having an affair. The women not so much. One attitude I saw was: he comes home to me every night.

 

They "paid" for it. Both to keep the mistress happy and the wife from rocking the boat.

 

Mistresses were courted and wooed and given expensive presents and often had expenses paid. They keep their mouth shut, they don't overstep, they are pleasant and cheerful and they provide great sex.

 

And if a Filipnoo checks in here, they can explain that whole "second family" thing. I may screw it up, but because divorce is illegal and annulments are expensive both parties just agree to separate and move on to have second families often with partners who are in the same situation.

[minimariah]

Wasn't it some big shots funeral in Italy where the mistress followed behind the wife in the processional ? No big thing ?

 

it's different with celebrities & high class society in general - they're often dehumanized and affairs being accepted or criticized really depends on how much the general public likes the parties involved.

 

with Diana, for example... she was ADORED. so Charles and Camilla were never really accepted. Diana was someone who was honest, raw and real and loved Charles - Diana did not deserve it. that's how it was. on the other hand - Hollande's wife was hated, obnoxious and rude. no one gave a crap about HER when he cheated and more than anything else... it was used against Hollande in order to discredit him. and their situation was nothing more than just some kind of fun and entertainment.

 

what i'm trying to say - i believe affairs are equally frowned upon in both America & Europe. how hard people go in depends on how are the parties involved perceived & what happens with the affair; were there children involved... i noticed that people don't really empathize with men or women they identify as rude or dislike... also, if the affair turns into some kind of long relationship, marriage, especially with children... it somehow becomes justified. people eventually accept it.

 

the thing about Italia and France though - i've lived in France for about three years and my native hometown is on the border of my country and Italia... trust me, folks are NOT accepting of the affairs. French are seen as these passionate and wild lovers... i think that's where the myth that the affairs are welcomed comes from. they just... get over it and bounce back a lot faster. Americans analyze and think about it a lot... Europeans are generally not like that. also - affairs are more taboo in the States than they are in the Europe, i think. which honestly, surprised me... because, in Europe... well, America is this liberal and free country and everything is possible there. lol. but the affairs are one thing that folks are very black & white about and they generally tend to avoid talking about it. Europeans focus more on the grey areas, i believe.

[mrs rubble]

by the way - one OM from NZ claimed (to a clueless American) that cheating was just a normal part of the culture there.

That is a load of rubbish!! That OM must've been from one of the hick towns where they're all related or the damn silly religious sect in the South Island. Most New Zealander's are very anti affairs and cheating. Kiwi men are traditionally very macho and will often seek revenge.

There was a man who set fire to and killed his wife on the side of the road here about a year or so ago because he'd found out she'd cheated.

[velvette]

In the more civilized westernized world Denmark, Japan, France. Finland, Italy and Iceland to some degree but not as out in the open as the first three.

 

In all Divorce is considered far worse.

 

In Finland they call affairs, parallel relationships.

 

Most of Europe is very laid back and "Meh" about it. The progressive Europeans like to keep their noses out of what goes on behind locked doors with two consenting adults.

 

Europe has totally decriminalized adultery and has stated that if Turkey was to keep adultery as a criminal offense, then it would be a deterrent toward acceptance into the European Union.

 

Their attitude is they each expect the other to have a sexual fling type of affair in a long marriage and they trust each other to keep it discreet to protect the marriage.

 

America and England are very conflicted about affairs, although some estimates are that 80 percent of married people have engaged in one but they don't want to admit to it or talk about it.

 

My wife has told out MC that she was more surprised by the affair than hurt and would have been far more hurt and devastated had I simply handed her divorce papers.

 

My wife is very independent and not possessive and earns as much money as I do. She has always been strong and independent, so she does not need to stay married for financial reasons.

 

IMO, if a marriage can not withstand a sexual fling type of affair, than it's not a very strong marriage, anyway.

 

In a handful of states, Michigan is one, infidelity is a misdemeanor, but in all the states where is is a minor crime, it has not been prosecuted in a very very long time, the USA.

 

I have never visited Islamic countries but I have read that the Islamic countries frown on infidelity and are typically much stricter on the woman than the man, Sadly.

 

Hogwash. Finland, I don't know and I doubt you do either, but given the size of the country hardly representative of anything.

 

 

France and Italy historically Catholic countries where divorce is and still is stigmatized or forbidden. Both countries steeped in patriarchy for centuries and still today. Additionally, the women in these countries lag far behind the rest of women in Western civilization with regard to womens liberation. They didn't even obtain the right to vote until the 1940's-50's despite France in particular having some of the most strident voices in the womens movement.

 

 

The reality is that the "meh" attitude to cheating belongs solely to men in these countries. It is an attitude of boys will be and are entitled to be boys, divorce is stigmatized, and women accept infidelity. Most men don't and in fact they are seen as cuckolds if their wives cheat.

 

 

Try talking to some real people instead of spouting myths.

 

 

The only difference they have with americans, is they don't get crazy if their politicians cheat, because they separate the private from the public in the decisions regarding public officials. Still, no real evidence that women who now have the right to vote adhere to that philosophy when they cast their ballots.

 

 

BTW there aren't many French Americans and you would have to talk to French Canadians to ascertain their views, but similar attitudes prevail among Italian Americans. It's not uncommon for cheating to be ok among males but not females. Just as its not uncommon for sons can do no wrong while much more is expected of daughters. And, in fact a lot of Italian American women marry into different cultures because of this.

[OneLov]

it's different with celebrities & high class society in general - they're often dehumanized and affairs being accepted or criticized really depends on how much the general public likes the parties involved.

 

with Diana, for example... she was ADORED. so Charles and Camilla were never really accepted. Diana was someone who was honest, raw and real and loved Charles - Diana did not deserve it. that's how it was. on the other hand - Hollande's wife was hated, obnoxious and rude. no one gave a crap about HER when he cheated and more than anything else... it was used against Hollande in order to discredit him. and their situation was nothing more than just some kind of fun and entertainment.

 

what i'm trying to say - i believe affairs are equally frowned upon in both America & Europe. how hard people go in depends on how are the parties involved perceived & what happens with the affair; were there children involved... i noticed that people don't really empathize with men or women they identify as rude or dislike... also, if the affair turns into some kind of long relationship, marriage, especially with children... it somehow becomes justified. people eventually accept it.

 

the thing about Italia and France though - i've lived in France for about three years and my native hometown is on the border of my country and Italia... trust me, folks are NOT accepting of the affairs. French are seen as these passionate and wild lovers... i think that's where the myth that the affairs are welcomed comes from. they just... get over it and bounce back a lot faster. Americans analyze and think about it a lot... Europeans are generally not like that. also - affairs are more taboo in the States than they are in the Europe, i think. which honestly, surprised me... because, in Europe... well, America is this liberal and free country and everything is possible there. lol. but the affairs are one thing that folks are very black & white about and they generally tend to avoid talking about it. Europeans focus more on the grey areas, i believe.

 

I agree. I'm from the US, but my cultural background is mostly Italian. As such, I have been to Italy many times and have family there. I remember being a fourteen year-old boy and getting served beer at the bar and would see "boobs" regularly on public TV. I could not understand why my country censored such great things. Then I learned we can thank the Puritans for sewing the seeds of absolute censorship. Lol.

 

I believe a lack of an emotional support system is a factor that causes Americans to be more affected by infidelity than Italians. In my culture, relationships with extended family are highly prioritized. I find I am closer with 2nd cousins than most Americans are with their grandparents. It's actually weird that Americans invest so much emotional energy in one person and do not ever take time to develop other familial relationships.

 

In short, Americans invest too much in one relationship. We do not take the time to cultivate other relationships and only apply "risk management" strategies in our financial investments.

[dichotomy]

That is a load of rubbish!! That OM must've been from one of the hick towns where they're all related or the damn silly religious sect in the South Island. Most New Zealander's are very anti affairs and cheating. Kiwi men are traditionally very macho and will often seek revenge.

There was a man who set fire to and killed his wife on the side of the road here about a year or so ago because he'd found out she'd cheated.

 

 

Like most MM seeking to get a woman (single or married) to sleep with them ....they will use any excuse they can..and some women will buy it. He was not a hick, but a highly education professional form a major city.

[wmacbride]

 

BTW there aren't many French Americans and you would have to talk to French Canadians to ascertain their views, but similar attitudes prevail among Italian Americans. .

 

I know lots of french canadian's both quebecois ( Quebc and portions of northern Ontario near the border with Quebec, e.g.- Mattawa) and Le Acadie ( Acadians, who are the cultural ancestors of the Cajuns from Louisiana...they were french living in the portion of Canada that is now the martime provinces. The British undertook expulsions in the 1700's and sent them to the area now known as Louisiana)

 

I'm partly descended from Quebecois french and know many other who are as well. I don't know of too many in either of these cultural groups who view cheating as "meh".

[mrs rubble]

Like most MM seeking to get a woman (single or married) to sleep with them ....they will use any excuse they can..and some women will buy it. He was not a hick, but a highly education professional form a major city.

 

True. He better watch his back and hope noone tries to set him on fire!

I do know of a few professional educated cheats here in Auckland, but it is definetly not "part of our culture" most of us think it's despicable behaviour. We had a couple at my own work who got together while still married to other people, they were constantly gossiped about. They lost respect from their colleagues and even managers made adverse comments about them.

[minimariah]

I do know of a few professional educated cheats here in Auckland, but it is definetly not "part of our culture" most of us think it's despicable behaviour.

 

speaking of NZ - i remember a story, a couple of months ago... about two lovers who were caught having sex in their empty office & were actually RECORDED by guests in some bar across the street and the video of them having sex went viral. it was in Christchurch and it turned out the dude was married with kids & the young woman was his OW.

 

the comments of other citizens and folks from NZ... and the shaming the couple got? yeah, definitely didn't seem like it was a part of their culture.