Are kids hurt by affairs?

[wmacbride]

As kids-(or at least for me) we think are parents are perfect and it's hard finding out one day that they aren't.

 

 

except me. I'm perfect...lol :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[HereNorThere]

This is why we need to rely on science and peer reviewed studies instead of our own history for this kind of information. As you can see, it hits too close to home for a lot of people and it's not long before the rationalization hamster comes out and starts trying to repair our fragile egos. "I'm not damaged, my kids aren't damaged, everything is fine. Please take me back to my safe place."

 

I've never heard a psychologist say that our relationships are the end all and be all factor that forms our personalities. The current model of psychology uses the bio-psycho-social model to describe the various influences that create our "self." Biological meaning our genes and genetic predispositions, psychological as it relates to our coping mechanisms, mental capacity, etc. and sociological meaning our environment, including but not limited to culture, religion, etc.

 

Criminologist, psychiatrists, and tons of other researchers have interviewed and monitored everyone from children with conduct problems in school to serial killers and brutal dictators. To think they just dreamed up these massive correlations with your parents is fool-hearty at best.

 

Not all change is damage, but some is. Not all correlation is causation, but some is. When you change any of the factors, even in the slightest, it changes who you are as a person. Some people have better coping mechanisms for dealing with these type of things than others, but we as a society pay a high price for everyone's familial issues because of this. The cost to tax payers through incarceration and psychological treatment cannot be ignored through rationalization or justification. It's nothing personal; it's just the facts.

[ladydesigner]

During H's A he was distant, uninvolved and impatient with the children. When the affair was ending and his chickens were threatening to come home to roost, he was irritable and generally vile to all of us. After the A his treatment of the children improved but I was a wreck.

 

Yes this is how it was in my situation too. WH had been absent for years even prior to his A with MOW. Once his A with MOW took off he was the most irritable person I had ever seen. I tried to connect, talk, do nice things, etc only to be met with arguments on his end.

 

My kids were witness to Dday unfortunately. I could not hold it together even for them I absolutely lost my mind. I found out later that my daughter had intercepted texts between my WH and MOW as well (keeping it classy:sick:). My son found out from my daughter and the rest is history.

 

My reactions were horrid, my WH's behavior and abandonment of me and the kids was absurd. We were in hell all of us for a loooong time. Both kids had problems in school, acted out, wet the bed, nightmares for a few years. Now they are older. My daughter says she never wants a boyfriend assuming it is because of our marital problems.

 

My childhood was similar. My mom had A's and my parents fought for years. My mom had one suicide attempt that me and my sis were witness too.

 

Bad bad it's all bad

[minimariah]

It's nothing personal; it's just the facts.

 

i think we can all agree that the affairs are affecting most children - in a negative way. children are not interested in or accepting of the affair in three situations: 1. dysfunctional, abusive marriage so the affair is nothing new; 2. bad relationship with the cheated on parent; 3. personal experience in the affair as a WS or the other person. in every other situation - especially when the children are older while the affair is playing out... it does affect them deeply. also - rewriting history of the parents in the role of an OW/OM/WS is certainly possible.

 

but statements like these:

 

There is absolutely no doubt that children are damaged by their parents affairs and or subsequent divorce. The statistics prove that they are at higher risk for everything from drug use to suicide and are much more likely to end up divorced themselves.

 

sound pretty final. you don't describe affairs as something that influences someone's self but rather as something that's crucial to someone's development. the statistics in the second statements are arguable - you have to remember that psychology isn't exact science... it is an empirical science and it does not rely on provable facts. that's why you have so many psychologist who completely disagree on, for example, how aware the children are of their parents affairs when they don't know about it...

 

the thing i argue about is your statement that affairs influence everything we do... even if we're going to become addicts or not - it is what you make of it. and you will agree that the way the parents decide to handle the affair influences the way the child will deal with it, no? so what REALLY damages the children - the affair and the parents response to it?

 

also - how do we comment on many folks who cheat and divorce while growing up with parents who had stable and happy marriage?

 

Is it possible that you can have an affair, no one finds out and no one is damaged either directly or indirectly?

 

sure - well, i'm talking about the kids only. some argue that the children feel or know something is wrong... but if the affair doesn't affect your parenting or emotionally investment into the children... then how will the kids know? they aren't stupid, for sure... but they're not the super intuitive beings either. especially at the younger age when the highlight of their day is what cartoon to watch. in my personal experiences, children barely pay attention to what goes on between the parents intimately... IF their general dynamic isn't changed.

 

now we can argue how capable the WSs are of maintaining a peaceful happy life while having an affair - it certainly drains a person to have an extramarital relationship. it is stressful.

Edited April 19, 2016 by minimariah

[mellywell]

I think knowing mommy cheated on daddy has got to hurt a child.

 

I also think growing up knowing daddy will now hate mommy forever can hurt a child too.

 

As parents, we have a responsibility to be adults and parents regardless.

[cocorico]

 

an interesting phenomenon happens though - in a bad marriage with one parents who cheats and the other one who is mostly depressed and just sits around, throwing some kind of pity party... the child will turn to the parent who's having an affair BUT moved on with their lives and will justify the affair; in those cases, children develop especially toxic relationship with the cheated on parent, full of resentment and misdirected anger at them for NOT being strong and for somehow... putting the negative feelings on them.

 

This is interesting. In my own case, though, it is rather more complex. My mother had been a WS before I was born (my older sibling is in fact a half-sibling, though I grew up not knowing that and my father always treated him as his own) and my father a BS. Their M had always been bad - my mother was alcoholic, narcissistic, and abusive - and my R with her had always been really bad. My R with him was a little better - we did not actively hate each other, just didn't have any dealings with each other. During his R, we did actually interact, talked about stuff, while she just carried on as usual (withdrew into her bedroom drinking, if we were lucky. Screamed, hit out, got abusive, if we were not.)

 

I hated her because of how she treated me, not because of her response to the A (if she even registered it). But I did "turn toward him" insofar as I got a glimpse that he might be accessible, because the A lightened him, alleviated his depression a little. You take what you can get, where you can get it.

[cocorico]

 

but this doesn't jive.

If it was so bad at home for his kids because of their mother, if they were miserable and enduring a horrible home life before he cheated, then why did he think that going back, once he had picked up enough courage to leave, seem like a good idea?

 

He didn't leave. If you read, you'll see *she* left (presumably for her OM). He was happy during the split; she fell apart (perhaps OM dumped her, who knows) Kids were traumatised during the split, so when she begged him to take her back, he agreed - for the kids' sake.

 

 

 

 

You say he went back, could see they were miserable , yet it took having an ow to leave a second time,

 

Nope, none of that is what I said.

 

 

 

and no all of a sudden, they are all sunshine and roses?

 

How did that happen?

 

He went to counselling during that time - it wasn't "all of a sudden", it was more than three years. He took them to counselling. They were three years older at the point he sat them down and broached the possibility of another split.

 

How it "happened" was handling the split better than the first one.

Edited April 19, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
rude ~T

[cocorico]

 

btw, if he was a sucky father, disengaged form his children and not spending time with them before the A, then that is on him. Blaming his ex for his parenting practices is pretty disingenuous. If his marriage was so terrible and his wife so unstable, why bring a couple of kids into the mix?

 

I'm not sure how I became the subject of the thread, but at the risk of taking it further off topic - he was clinically depressed. That affects ability to parent. He spent more time with them than she did but they all lived pretty atomised lives.

 

They had agreed no kids. She refused to give consent for him to have a vasectomy "in case they changed their minds one day" - she did, but didn't tell him. Just went off the pill and got pregnant, and refused to have an abortion as they had always agreed she would if she fell pregnant by accident. So, he had no choice - he could have dumped her and just paid but he takes responsibility very seriously.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Yes, researchers and therapist would agree that children that come from abusive parents or alcoholic parents are in a higher risk group. However, that's completely irrelevant to our topic of conversation. I guess I don't understand the point you are making with that.

 

And no, there are not statistics to prove anything. Find me the statistic that says smoking cures lung cancer. Find the statistic that says AIDS increases your lifespan.

 

Science doesn't have a dog in the fight or an agenda. It's simply about observing the Universe and making rational inferences based on those observations. Our inferences can change in light of new evidence, so if you have data to support a different claim, we would love to see it.

 

For as long as we've been psychoanalyzing, we've always found correlation with a person and their parents. If you have conflicting evidence, we are all ears. Hurry up and finish your peer reviewed study because you are about to shake the foundation of psychology and ruin a lot of tenured careers.

 

Is it possible that you can have an affair, no one finds out and no one is damaged either directly or indirectly? Sure, with the infinite amount of times this has happened throughout our brief history here on earth, there has to be examples of that. However, they are statistical outliers. Most likely, even indirectly, children feel the effects of the parents behavior. They are much, much more observant than people give them credit for.

 

My point is this....

 

How do we know that the said affair caused the issues in our children's lives?

 

My kids never knew I cheated. I was a good mother... But how do I know how I would have been had i not had an affair.

 

How do I know the difference my affair made in my children's lives?

 

Quite frankly ... I don't know ... Because I did have an affair.

 

My kids are fine... Would they have been fine regardless?

Probably

 

But for people to come on this thread and speculate that children touched by affairs are damaged....I say some are perhaps... And some are obviously not.

[georgia girl]

I can only answer the original poster's question. I am the child of a father who cheated and it had a profound impact on me. Retrospectively, I can genuinely say both a good and a bad impact but it was definitely formative in who I am today.

 

It's posted elsewhere but I was a pre-teen when I found out about my dad's affair with his secretary. I knew something was up. Mom and dad were arguing more than usual and more quietly than usual and in more "inconvenient" places - like in the car sitting in the driveway. They were also more quiet and I could tell my mom was very sad and my dad was morose. So, I investigated. Here's a tip to parents: 1) kids figure it out pretty quickly that something is going on and 2) they tend to be good investigators and you will eventually mess up. I spent some time lurking, but they were on to me. One day, I walked around the corner when they didn't expect that I would be home and I heard them talking. I got it all.

 

I was devastated. I hated my dad and his other woman in a way that I hope I never feel again. I was also, quixotically, both hurt for and angry with my mom. How could she have let this happen to us? Why hadn't she been nicer to dad? You can see how this type of thinking can really, really screw up a kid. I was also just figuring out boys and the opposite sex and what "sex" really meant. I couldn't have imagined my parents having sex, but to think of my dad doing that with another woman totally creeped me out. I couldn't even look at him. I haven't shared this on here before, but when I found out, I lost it and tried to kick my dad out of the house. I wanted him no where near me.

 

There were a lot of really bad things that happened, mostly because my father fake "R"ed for awhile before finally ending things and recommitting to my mom. Through it all, she was totally amazing. She accepted my anger at her while at the same time teaching me that a partner in any relationship isn't at fault for the bad actions of another. She and I learned a whole new way of relating that today makes us exceptionally close. As for my dad, it took years but we reconciled in a truly meaningful way. I lost him recently and I have the comfort and peace of my mind that we healed us before he died.

 

So, the parts of me that are worse? I decided at 15-16 that I was never getting married and learned some habits around being a commitment phobe that I didn't recognize in myself. I got married a few years ago to the love of my love, so I think I conquered that one. I felt fragile in high school, like even though I was academically and socially successful that my peers didn't know what was going on at home or how unstable my home life was. I was petrified someone would find out and desperately needing to share. To this day, I have a huge fear of abandonment. And of course, there were a lot of sad years. Memories of homecomings, graduations, my sister's wedding, etc., marred by bad stuff related to my dad's affair. Things that can never be undone.

 

The good things? I'm fiercely independent and made it my goal in life to never have to financially rely on a man to help me get through. This drive made me very successful and I'm grateful for it. I'm tough. I learned early that I could get through anything with a smile on my face and its helped me throughout my personal and professional life. I got introspective. I had to learn and understand my parents' emotional beings to understand why they did what they did and stayed together. It helps me to understand people now.

 

In the end, I am happy. Those years can never be erased and the Christmases where the whole family spent crying or not speaking to each other, the estrangement, the temporary separate households for awhile, they are still there and they can sting sometimes.

 

But this thing helped to shape me and it's a part of who I am. I have a husband whom I adore and we have built a life that is amazingly open and honest. We went through a life-threatening injury together and it sealed us together in a way that allowed me to become vulnerable to another human being in a way I didn't think I could have. I had a wonderful relationship with my dad before he died and I'm so close to my mom and my siblings. We have all built good lives and I've learned from my parents to not give up on things, to be responsible for your actions and your happiness and to author your own successes. This thing taught me to appreciate family, to understand its fragility and to protect it with a fierceness that cannot be denied.

 

I will close with this. When I married my husband, someone asked us why we would do that. I wasn't able to have children, we both had considerable personal assets and we lived together. Why get married? My answer was that I had found one person with whom I could make a family and that would be the most amazing achievement I would ever get the chance to make.

 

MacBride, you can't undo what your family has experienced. But all things in life teach us wonderful lessons. I wish you and your family the best.

[HereNorThere]

It is my opinion that trespassing or betraying your child's parent is also directly violating your child. I personally do not believe that someone could consider themselves a good parent while simultaneously risking their child's stable home, possibly setting a really horrible example of how you treat the people you love, splitting their finances down the middle which in most cases leads to the child having less choices in life, and the list goes on and on.

 

However, I don't think many (or maybe any) cheaters would be capable of admitting that and I'm totally fine with it. I do not think that most egos would allow them to accept that they are child abusers. There's only so deep a person can go with introspection on that aspect.

 

So, even under these hypothetical situations where your spouse was in a coma and you slept with someone that lived in Antarctica that died immediately after the sex was finished and therefore has absolutely no chance of ever telling another person, I still think you risked your child's future. Maybe the odds are in your favor that your secret will kept forever, but to me it's completely irrelevant.

 

I personally don't care if your behavior is out in the open or kept a life long secret. Wrong is wrong and if you only behave when you think someone is watching, that doesn't make you a good person; just a good manipulator. It doesn't make you a good parent just because you hid it well. In fact, I would even venture to say that continually lying or lying by omission to your child is another violation in and of itself (excluding situations where it is not age appropriate.)

[Mrs. John Adams]

It is my opinion that trespassing or betraying your child's parent is also directly violating your child. I personally do not believe that someone could consider themselves a good parent while simultaneously risking their child's stable home, possibly setting a really horrible example of how you treat the people you love, splitting their finances down the middle which in most cases leads to the child having less choices in life, and the list goes on and on.

 

However, I don't think many (or maybe any) cheaters would be capable of admitting that and I'm totally fine with it. I do not think that most egos would allow them to accept that they are child abusers. There's only so deep a person can go with introspection on that aspect.

 

So, even under these hypothetical situations where your spouse was in a coma and you slept with someone that lived in Antarctica that died immediately after the sex was finished and therefore has absolutely no chance of ever telling another person, I still think you risked your child's future. Maybe the odds are in your favor that your secret will kept forever, but to me it's completely irrelevant.

 

I personally don't care if your behavior is out in the open or kept a life long secret. Wrong is wrong and if you only behave when you think someone is watching, that doesn't make you a good person; just a good manipulator. It doesn't make you a good parent just because you hid it well. In fact, I would even venture to say that continually lying or lying by omission to your child is another violation in and of itself (excluding situations where it is not age appropriate.)

 

my affair was one freakin afternoon

 

it has been 33 years

 

my kids are just fine...... trust me on this

[HereNorThere]

my affair was one freakin afternoon

 

it has been 33 years

 

my kids are just fine...... trust me on this

 

I know and by all accounts it seems like you've done a really great job repairing marriage and your kids have turned out fine. I cringe thinking that you might have taken what I said personally because your situation is far from what I am referring to.

 

I always make a distinction between a one time accident type situation and a long term deception or living a double life. It's honestly hard for me to call what you describe as an "affair" an actual affair, but given the fact that it's still even thought about 33 years later may actually serve to prove my point about how psychologically damaging these situations are. However, a one time mistake in college is far from the type situation I am describing. I will try to make sure that comes across a little more in my posts.

 

Personally, I think you and Mr. Adams are great and I appreciate your contribution to the community. I love the fact that you don't try to minimize or rationalize what happened even after all these years. It says a lot about your character and honesty. Albeit the most minor of indiscretions years ago, you own it and I think you pass that strength onto others here.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I know and by all accounts it seems like you've done a really great job repairing marriage and your kids have turned out fine. I cringe thinking that you might have taken what I said personally because your situation is far from what I am referring to.

 

I always make a distinction between a one time accident type situation and a long term deception or living a double life. It's honestly hard for me to call what you describe as an "affair" an actual affair, but given the fact that it's still even thought about 33 years later may actually serve to prove my point about how psychologically damaging these situations are. However, a one time mistake in college is far from the type situation I am describing. I will try to make sure that comes across a little more in my posts.

 

Personally, I think you and Mr. Adams are great and I appreciate your contribution to the community. I love the fact that you don't try to minimize or rationalize what happened even after all these years. It says a lot about your character and honesty. Albeit the most minor of indiscretions years ago, you own it and I think you pass that strength onto others here.

 

understood....and thank you. What I did 33 years ago was horrible.....I do own it...and I do not minimize it. My husband and I certainly carry the scars....and we always will.

 

Please remember.....there are many folks out there....who have similar situations as me. All affairs are not the same.....even though they have many things in common.

 

and many families do survive...and many children turn out to be upstanding good people.....IN SPITE of the affair.

 

That's my only point.....

 

When we start speculating about others situations....we have to keep in mind that there are always exceptions. Which is why i said earlier in this thread.....we can really only talk about our own personal experience. only we KNOW if our children were HURT by infidelity.

 

I don't know if your kids were hurt....and I would not speculate about them.

Several folks here made very general statements regarding other peoples children.....

[BetheButterfly]

If you are a part of a couple that was touched by infidelity, what affect did it have on your children? If one of your parents had an affair, did it affect you?

.

 

My aunt's former husband had several affairs. She didn't know about it until receiving a call from a woman who was surprised that he was married.

 

It did hurt her kids because their Dad's affairs tore their family apart. And, instead of living in one home together, their time was divided in between going to their Dad's house and their Mom's house. They also eventually accepted a new stepmom and a new stepdad. That's not incredibly easy and in some ways, it was a painful process for them.

 

My cousins are fine though; they got through the pain and they love both sets of parents they have. It was hard for them, but it was possibly better than for them than living with parents who marriage was broken with no healing in sight.

 

Personally, it hurt my perception of marriage. When I was 15, that's when my aunt found out. She came and stayed with her brother (my Dad) and us, and it broke my heart seeing her so sad and torn apart emotionally.

 

It's hard for me to understand why my former uncle by marriage cheated on her. She is intelligent, talented, funny, gorgeous, the sweetest person I know really. I remember thinking, "If she isn't safe from being cheated on, who is?"

 

So, many kids are hurt directly by affairs when those affairs break up their parents' marriage, and seeing the pain in their parents' eyes. Some kids are hurt indirectly by observing the pain of their loved ones and wondering why this happened.

[wmacbride]

I'm not sure how I became the subject of the thread, but at the risk of taking it further off topic - he was clinically depressed. That affects ability to parent. He spent more time with them than she did but they all lived pretty atomised lives.

 

They had agreed no kids. She refused to give consent for him to have a vasectomy "in case they changed their minds one day" - she did, but didn't tell him. Just went off the pill and got pregnant, and refused to have an abortion as they had always agreed she would if she fell pregnant by accident. So, he had no choice - he could have dumped her and just paid but he takes responsibility very seriously.

 

 

You are not the subject of the thread. you brought up points, using your situation as an example.These were responses made to what you wrote. If you didn't want what you wrote to be discussed, why even bring it up?

 

I do find it interesting that you blame the women, both your mother and your husband's first wife, for how the children were treated by the fathers in both situations.

 

Both men chose to disengage from their children. That is not the fault of the W. If their wives were horrible to their families and the husbands chose to leave the children to sink or swim because they couldn't handle being at home, then that was a choice made by those husbands.

[wmacbride]

MacBride, you can't undo what your family has experienced. But all things in life teach us wonderful lessons. I wish you and your family the best.

 

Thank you:)

 

My husband really is a wonderful father, I don't want this one thing to mar the rleationship between our children and him. I don't think it has. Yes, they were hurt, but I think they know he loves them and is sorry.

 

In my opinion most ws do love heir children, and never want to hurt them. Unfortunately, if the posts in response tot eh op are any indication, they can be very hurtful.

[Joie]

I agree with the pp that said my husband's A affected our children but I don't think it has harmed them. The A stole time from our family. Days that my H should've been doing family things were spent with the OW. He did feel resentful towards me and our children when I would ask him to do things.

 

However, his A lasted only a few months. Our children are still young. It was such a brief period in their lives. I think they realized Mommy and Daddy were sad but overall I doubt they will have any long term memory of the "Affair time".

 

In some ways the A has helped our family (I would give anything to be where we are now without the A but that isn't the path life gave us). My H and I went to counseling and worked out many issues we had unrelated to the A. My H decided that he was not acting like the Father he wanted to be and stepped up. I realized that I was depressed and got help for that. We are now in a place that we enjoy our family.

 

Very early on we decided to keep this from our children. If we broke up or stayed together we both recognized that we love our children. Because we decided to stay together we "faked it until we made it". So, while we were having serious discussions we also showed affection to each other. (A lot). It was one of the ways we decided to reconnect.

 

So while there were days my kids caught mommy crying hopefully those won't be what they remember. I hope they remember mommy and daddy holding hands and kissing in the kitchen.

[sandylee1]

I'm seeing people here trying to suggest the affairs they were part of had no negative effect on the kids. That may well be the case if they were infants* or toddlers..... but I smell a lot of bull from others trying to suggest that the A was the best thing ever.

 

Just more justification that led them down that road in the first place.

[mellywell]

I think that unless children are very very young or the marriage was so toxic and abusive that an exit affair somehow became some godsend (and I am skeptical about that), it goes without saying that when one parent cheats on another, it hurts the children.

 

Once that is established, the question becomes, how important are out children? Here is what I mean – are our children more important than our pain, than our selfishness, than our need for revenge, than all the other things that can happen on the WS AND BS side in the wake of D-Day? Are we going to continue to hurt our children in the choices we make AFTER D-Day, or are we going to choose to be grownups and parents regardless of what our spouse does?

 

I know a couple who stayed together after infidelity for the children (and eventually the grandchildren). There is no doubt that the WS’ affair hurt the children. However, it is not the affair, years and years down the road that are continuing to hurt the children and grandchildren. It is the seething and palpable disdain that the BS has for the WS that is continuing the hurt.

 

The choices we make surrounding infidelity, no matter which side of the coin we are on, WILL impact our children, and pointing the finger in the other direction only goes so far.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I guess if someone feels the affair had positive results for them and they are the one making the statement... Especially if they are the betrayed spouse... We need to be sensitive to that and not judge their relationship based on our opinions.

 

My affair was the worst thing that has ever happened to us. We survived despite it.

 

But who am I to judge others?

 

Now I do take issue with a wayward justifying their affair...it raises the hair on the back of my neck

 

By the way... My kids were little when I had my affair but they were not infants....

And they are just fine.

[mellywell]

I actually think MORE damage is done when someone feel it is absolutely necessary to explain to a PRESCHOOLER what adultery is and that Daddy/Mommy did it

[ladydesigner]

I actually think MORE damage is done when someone feel it is absolutely necessary to explain to a PRESCHOOLER what adultery is and that Daddy/Mommy did it

 

I actually agree with this that no preschooler should know and I'm not sure they would understand anyway.

 

I think if couples decided not to disclose it is their individual choice but if said child or young adult were to ever ask the question of whether one of the two or both cheated I would hope all would answer honestly. I know I would.

[Mrs. John Adams]

If my children asked me I would certainly tell them.

 

And I agree each couple has to decide for themselves whether to disclose and who to.

 

It was the wish of my husband not to disclose.... I respected that decision.

 

I think if a couple is attempting to reconcile it might be easier to do so when a limited number of people know and interject their opinions.

 

 

Had we decided to divorce I am sure we would have told others why.

[central]

No doubt some are, and some aren't, to varying degrees. The fact is, most affairs are never revealed, so no one other than the person having the affair knows if or how they are affected in any way. When discovered, the problems begin and people are hurt (yes, sometimes impacts occur before, but they can be almost impossible to quantify in terms of impact on anyone else).

 

 

I will go so far as to say that for an undisclosed affair, the spouse having the affair may be happier or less stressed, and that may even have positive effects for the children - and sometimes even the spouse.