A TED talk on affairs - long video.

[dichotomy]

An interesting TED Talk on Infidelity by a therapist.

 

Its a long video.

 

Esther Perel: Rethinking infidelity ... a talk for anyone who has ever loved | TED Talk | TED.com

 

 

I don't agree with all she said, but some interesting points we have all discussed/debated here on L.S.

 

Some points stick in my mind

 

- wanting to be something or someone else in an affair.

- Affairs triggered by loss or death.

- A comment about "if you put 1/10th of the energy of your affair into your marriage I would not have a job"

- The role of the WS in repairing the affair - bringing it up and not waiting for your spouse to do it as they obsess on it.

- A change in the type questions a BS should ask about the WS's affair.

- The joke at the end - "I know your thinking I am french so I have a bias"

 

 

 

-

[mellywell]

"if you put 1/10th of the energy of your affair into your marriage I would not have a job"

 

Wow - that is good stuff right there! I am listening right now to the video.

 

It was an excellent recording. However, when she said "betrayal in a relationship can take many forms," I could hear hundreds of windows being closed...

Edited April 18, 2016 by mellywell

[Doublegold]

Quite thought-provoking. Suprised/not surprised there are so few comments.

 

Twenty one minutes is not that long of a video--I thought it was going to be an hour.

 

Thank you for sharing.

[minimariah]

love Esther - she definitely makes some excellent points.

[Lois_Griffin]

The one thing she says that I totally agree with is, "staying is the new shame."

[wmacbride]

She made the statement:

 

"we live in an era where we feel that we are entitled to pursue our desires, because this is the culture where I deserve to be happy."

 

I agree with this and it can be an issue.

 

I don't mean by this that people should accept being miserable, unhappy or even discontented . What is mean is why do people believe they have some inherent right, solely as a function of their existence, to deserve "happiness" , yet they don't really know what happiness is to them. It's become the elusive ideal some people chase, always running on the hamster wheel thinking that "if I just get x, y or z I will be happy". They get x, they get y, they get z, and guess what? They still aren't happy, so they go back on the wheel and keep running.

 

Some blame their spouse or marriage for not making them happy, but how can anyone or anything do that if the individual doesn't even know what happiness is to them?

 

There is also something to be said for contentment. Expecting a marriage to always be "happy" ( whatever that really means) may not be realistic. Just speaking for myself, to me, our marriage goes through periods when I am ecstatically happy, and periods when I am content. I don't feel a need to go looking for "happiness" elsewhere, as I have learned that things cycle around, and the period of happiness will return. The contentment phases are not bad, and overall, I am satisfied in my marriage and life.

 

I also like her point that " Now, the typical assumption is that if someone cheats, either there's something wrong in your relationship or wrong with you. But millions of people can't all be pathological."

 

I admit I might have missed something in her delivery, as because I have a hearing impairment, I read the transcript instead of listening to her speak.

[HereNorThere]

She made the statement:

 

"we live in an era where we feel that we are entitled to pursue our desires, because this is the culture where I deserve to be happy."

 

I agree with this and it can be an issue.

 

I don't mean by this that people should accept being miserable, unhappy or even discontented . What is mean is why do people believe they have some inherent right, solely as a function of their existence, to deserve "happiness" , yet they don't really know what happiness is to them. It's become the elusive ideal some people chase, always running on the hamster wheel thinking that "if I just get x, y or z I will be happy". They get x, they get y, they get z, and guess what? They still aren't happy, so they go back on the wheel and keep running.

 

Some blame their spouse or marriage for not making them happy, but how can anyone or anything do that if the individual doesn't even know what happiness is to them?

 

There is also something to be said for contentment. Expecting a marriage to always be "happy" ( whatever that really means) may not be realistic. Just speaking for myself, to me, our marriage goes through periods when I am ecstatically happy, and periods when I am content. I don't feel a need to go looking for "happiness" elsewhere, as I have learned that things cycle around, and the period of happiness will return. The contentment phases are not bad, and overall, I am satisfied in my marriage and life.

 

I also like her point that " Now, the typical assumption is that if someone cheats, either there's something wrong in your relationship or wrong with you. But millions of people can't all be pathological."

 

I admit I might have missed something in her delivery, as because I have a hearing impairment, I read the transcript instead of listening to her speak.

 

^^^^

 

This is exactly what I have been trying to explain to one of my friends going through a really, really cliche midlife crisis. At one point he says "don't you want me to be happy?" and my response was "how could anyone be happy with the trail of bodies you've left in your wake?"

 

Needless to say, he didn't exactly like it, but he got the point. I guess I just figure that by age 50 most people figure out that happiness isn't a destination, it's a mood just like every other mood you have. It's a moment and then it changes. We experience a vast array of emotions throughout each and every day.

 

I think for the most part, the "happiness" excuse is just grasping for straws. Most people I meet that have affairs were perfectly happy before it started. It was the affair that ended up being the catalyst to their unhappiness. This particular friend was one of the happiest people I know. He just happened to marry in his 20s and thought he could sow a few wild oats without anyone getting hurt.

 

I do have my own hypothesis through observation. I've noticed a lot of the cake-eaters married young and later felt like they "missed out" on something. As a single man in his 30s, I can assure they didn't, but since they don't have the experience dating that person like me (who has literally dated for 20 years or so) has they regress back to the age that they stopped dating. Every peer I have is so desperately trying to find a loyal partner through any means necessary. When you're willing to risk your life to meet serial daters through a website, that says a lot about the desperation people have to find partners at my age. I guess everyone just wants what they can't have. Sad really.

Edited April 19, 2016 by HereNorThere

[wmacbride]

^^^^

 

This is exactly what I have been trying to explain to one of my friends going through a really, really cliche midlife crisis. At one point he says "don't you want me to be happy?" and my response was "how could anyone be happy with the trail of bodies you've left in your wake?"

 

Needless to say, he didn't exactly like it, but he got the point. I guess I just figure that by age 50 most people figure out that happiness isn't a destination, it's a mood just like every other mood you have. It's a moment and then it changes. We experience a vast array of emotions throughout each and every day.

 

I think for the most part, the "happiness" excuse is just grasping for straws. Most people I meet that have affairs were perfectly happy before it started. It was the affair that ended up being the catalyst to their unhappiness. This particular friend was one of the happiest people I know. He just happened to marry in his 20s and thought he could sow a few wild oats without anyone getting hurt.

 

I do have my own hypothesis through observation. I've noticed a lot of the cake-eaters married young and later felt like they "missed out" on something. As a single man in his 30s, I can assure they didn't, but since they don't have the experience dating that person like me (who has literally dated for 20 years or so) has they regress back to the age that they stopped dating. Every peer I have is so desperately trying to find a loyal partner through any means necessary. When you're willing to risk your life to meet serial daters through a website, that says a lot about the desperation people have to find partners at my age. I guess everyone just wants what they can't have. Sad really.

 

.

 

You make a good point about happiness being a destination. Overall, western consumer culture traffics in making people feel discontented, and always wanting more. It's like some people have become bottomless black holes that can't ever be filled.

[dichotomy]

.

 

It's like some people have become bottomless black holes that can't ever be filled.

 

So about my ex WW..............

 

 

[Confused9999]

It could also be you are married and happy because you are just used to a certain way.

 

Then realize during affair that some things can be MUCH better and are not happy anymore with the status quo.

[ladydesigner]

It could also be you are married and happy because you are just used to a certain way.

 

Then realize during affair that some things can be MUCH better and are not happy anymore with the status quo.

 

Could be but maybe not.

[HereNorThere]

It could also be you are married and happy because you are just used to a certain way.

 

Then realize during affair that some things can be MUCH better and are not happy anymore with the status quo.

 

And I think that's the difference between the faithful and cheaters. With most faithfully married people, they made their decision on their wedding day and barring something like physical abuse or cheating, they don't sit around wondering if the grass would be greener with someone else. They already made their choice and a lot of them assume their spouse did too. And in all fairness, most of the cheaters actually made their choice that day, but they risked it all for a little taste of something different and ended up hooked. I'm sure heroin feels fantastic, but I have enough sense to know there aren't very many "every now and then" heroin users, so I'll just pass on that experience.

 

Things can always be MUCH better. Even millionaires can become billionaires or B list celebrities turn into A list. You could work the fryer at McDonalds for 5 years and eventually become shift manager. - The difference is that not all of us are looking for a better deal. That's kind of a shady mindset to begin with. A cop or fireman doesn't start the job hoping that they'll one day they'll own a yacht and helicopter. A lot of people are totally fine having a comfortable life despite knowing that there's always going to be something or someone that might be better.

 

And no matter how much you look at the greener grass, very, very rarely does it actually become your lawn. You usually just end up in a big pile of mud.... alone.

[Confused9999]

It also happens that you are "not looking for something better" since you are pretty happy in your marriage.

 

Then it kind of happens and you are hooked.. Yes like heroine. It's not like you planned and looked for it. But as the video says.. As cliche as it sounds.. "You feel alive"

 

Considering statistics show that up to 40-70% of people will cheat in some form or another your comments seems very black and white.

I am not condoning cheating, I really think it can lead to disaster, but there is a reason why it's been around as long as marriage has.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Confused9999

[RecentChange]

It also happens that you are "not looking for something better" since you are pretty happy in your marriage.

 

Then it kind of happens and you are hooked.. Yes like heroine. It's not like you planned and looked for it. But as the video says.. As cliche as it sounds.. "You feel alive".

 

I used these exact words when I first came to LS to confess my adultory.

 

I did feel alive, more than I had in years. And now, months post affair, I still feel "renewed" in many ways.

 

And I wasn't looking, over all I was fairly happy in my relationship.

[HereNorThere]

No, I totally get it. I've broken a lot stronger addictions than an affair and I have been betrayed in ways that no spouse could ever betray you (paternity fraud by my mother) so I've had my fair share of painful life experiences. I would even venture to say that I've been betrayed by nearly every single person I've ever been close with.

 

The difference is that I just don't believe I have a choice and some people do. Maybe it's maturity or something with my male ego, but the same drive that gets me out of bed in the morning no matter how bad I feel is the same drive that keeps me loyal to the people I love. - It's part of my psychology. I am not willing to trade my loved one's life for some fun or a better life for myself. Actually, it's quite opposite. I would gladly trade my life for theirs, even the ones who have betrayed me the most. - When other people are running out of the burning building, I'll be the guy you see running in.

 

If someone offered you a billion dollars to kill your family, would you do it? I'm sure life would be MUCH better with a billion dollars. And hey, with a billion dollars, who cares who gets hurt, right? I mean, don't they want you to be happy? Shouldn't they actually offer themselves up to the chopping block because hey - billion dollars. You can buy a lot of happiness with a billion dollars.

 

I just don't understand why you don't want me to be happy, mom? It's a BILLION dollars. I will buy you the nicest grave marker in all of England. You're my mother and you are supposed to want the best for me. Can't you see I'm not happy without this billion dollars? No, no, I was happy, but then they showed me the billion dollars and now all I can think about is that billion dollars. You're old anyway, so it's not a big deal. I'll even kill your cat fluffy so you guys can be together for eternity.

 

MOOOOMMMMMM, Don't you want me to be happpppppppppeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee?????????

 

Ugh, people and their ever elusive quest for happiness.

[RecentChange]

Naw, I wouldn't kill my family for a billion dollars, I don't know if I would be capable of killing any one no matter the price.

 

I also do not place adultery on the same magnitude as murder. I can, and have forgiven adultery. And I have been forgiven for adultery.

 

I understood how and why he was unhappy, and how it led to poor choices. He understood how and why I was unhappy, and how it led to poor choices.

 

Clearly, different people place different amounts of weight on having sex outside of a committed relationship.

 

For us, its a forgivable offence - for others, its apparently a completely earth shattering experience for which there is no recovery.

[Confused9999]

It's not that simple.... I'm sure you will disagree.. But you don't set out to hurt someone, especially someone you love. I also did not expect to find anything "better" or looking for an upgrade or reward. It happened and then one thing led to another.

But once in it you not only don't expect to get caught you are actually taking crazy risks because your are not thinking rationally.

Also you discover things about yourself and your likes and desires that you either suppress or may not be happy in the marriage.

 

In my case the affair ended without anyone finding out so I didn't actually hurt anyone.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Confused9999

[ShatteredLady]

HereNorThere. Some FANTASTIC posts!!

 

"It's part of my psychology. I am not willing to trade my loved one's life for some fun or a better life for myself. Actually, it's quite opposite. I would gladly trade my life for theirs, even the ones who have betrayed me the most. - When other people are running out of the burning building, I'll be the guy you see running in."

 

This is exactly how I'd describe my Dad. All of my life (until my brother died) he was the happiest person I've ever known. He has always told these funny, loving, wonderful stories from his childhood.

 

One of his brothers tells the exact same stories as examples of misery, poverty & abuse. He has been miserable womanizer all his life. The grass can NEVER be green enough. He has many children who he wouldn't even recognize if he was sat next to them at the bus stop.

[Tayla]

this video and discussion was brought up last year. I see it's being revived for further chat. it's often good to get fresh perspectives.

 

I admire the speaks objectivity. yet I cannot accolade the encouragement that having an affair carries a positive. it just doesn't.

 

I think the natural shame is what gets pushed under the carpet.. I've yet to meet an Ow/om that carries that human trait. but are dern good at playing victim when the affair ends. I would be interested in the speaker giving a discussion on that player... For that person was a critical element in contributing to foundation of mistrust...

[Sub]

 

For us, its a forgivable offence - for others, its apparently a completely earth shattering experience for which there is no recovery.

 

I would think, though, that there is a limit. I'll assume you're not in an open M. So at what point is it not forgivable?

[HereNorThere]

I think the video makes some interesting points and I learned some things, but it's obvious that Ester has been desensititized to infidelity to the point where she's reduced it to something comical. It's really hard to take her seriously when she's up there talking about how someone was absolutely devastated by infidelity with a smile on her face. It seems like infidelity has a lobby now.

 

If she was up there being a rape apologist and telling us that people are biologically prone to rape and it's so common, such a part of our history and never going away, that we should just start accepting it, everyone would be going nuts. All this talk of "desire" yet I desire money, but I don't see her trying to convince us that robbing a bank is just a natural part of life as well. - I do promise my fellow loveshackers that I will express remorse and guilt to the bank afterwards though. See, told you I learned something.

 

"Staying is the new shame." - No mam, staying has always been the shameful act. It's just that up until recently it wasn't as possible for women to leave their abusers because they were not part of the workforce. Now the script has been flipped and over 80% of divorces are filled by women and men end up having to forfeit every last dollar they have regardless of where they were faithful or not. There also wasn't really any talk of codependency which seems to be major factor in choosing to stay with an abusive partner.

 

With all that being said, I will give her some credit. If I was caught cheating, I would make certain that she was my betrayed spouses therapist. She's like a good defense attorney because she doesn't really care whether you're guilty or innocent. Her job is to make sure you don't end up in jail.

Edited April 20, 2016 by HereNorThere

[ShatteredLady]

I found the next video of Helen Fisher very interesting. I've said before that my H has cheated on me twice. Both times the 'interest' started about 6 weeks after he started taking antidepressants. (He took them to quit smoking once so the whole 'he was depressed' logic doesn't follow).

 

It's the first time I've heard an 'expert' express & explain a worry about these medications & loving relationships. I've had this nagging doubt because my H has said & done things to me that his close friends & family simply could not believe possible of him. I couldn't believe although it was happening to me!

 

If there is a link & 100 MILLION prescriptions are written a year in the USA alone it's incredibly "worrying" as she says!!

[HereNorThere]

I found the next video of Helen Fisher very interesting. I've said before that my H has cheated on me twice. Both times the 'interest' started about 6 weeks after he started taking antidepressants. (He took them to quit smoking once so the whole 'he was depressed' logic doesn't follow).

 

It's the first time I've heard an 'expert' express & explain a worry about these medications & loving relationships. I've had this nagging doubt because my H has said & done things to me that his close friends & family simply could not believe possible of him. I couldn't believe although it was happening to me!

 

If there is a link & 100 MILLION prescriptions are written a year in the USA alone it's incredibly "worrying" as she says!!

 

Decreased libido is one of the number one side effects of SSRI and SNRI antidepressant medication and most doctors will constantly ask you about the effects on your sex drive. Some are known to have less sexual side effects than others and some seem to be more gender specific, so it's important to monitor your patient and find the most effective one with least amount of sexual side effects. The newer classes of SNRIs seem to do better than the first generation SSRIs when it comes to libido loss.

 

"Antidepressants" to quit smoking are not the kind she is referring to. SSRI's like Prozac are very selective for 5ht (serotonin) receptors, but Bupropion (Wellbutrin/Zyban) is a norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor and nicotinic receptor antagonist and does not normally have that side effect. In fact, this class of antidepressants is known to cause an increase in libido in some patients because the dopamine and norepinephrine. Those are the same neurotransmitters associated cocaine, methamphetamine and other strong stimulants.

Edited April 20, 2016 by HereNorThere

[ShatteredLady]

I'll have to ask him the name. It was before Zyban type stuff. They ran trials on regular antidepressants in the same way they did for reducing chronic pain as an 'actual' pain reliever (not because chronic pain patients are depressed) if you know what I'm trying to say....

[HereNorThere]

Zyban has been approved here for nearly 30 years, so maybe you're thinking of the new Chantix/Verenicline smoking medication that's a little more recent?

 

Either way, there's a lot of different other antidepressants like TCAs, TECAs, MAOIs, and a bunch of different atypical antidepressants, so there's really no way of guessing. Although each can cause sexual issues, it's the SSRIs and SNRIs (the molecules with the strongest affinity for serotonin selectively) that seem to have more incidences of major sexual dysfunction. They're also the most widely prescribed antidepressants, so Helen Fisher really made me think about the effect the drugs are having on people. It's even worse when your research their efficacy rates and realize there's not even a lot of evidence they are beneficial for mild to moderate depression.

 

Glad I'm not the only one who forgot to turn off auto play on YouTube.