A TED talk on affairs - long video.

[wmacbride]

And I think that's the difference between the faithful and cheaters. With most faithfully married people, they made their decision on their wedding day and barring something like physical abuse or cheating, they don't sit around wondering if the grass would be greener with someone else. They already made their choice and a lot of them assume their spouse did too. And in all fairness, most of the cheaters actually made their choice that day, but they risked it all for a little taste of something different and ended up hooked. I'm sure heroin feels fantastic, but I have enough sense to know there aren't very many "every now and then" heroin users, so I'll just pass on that experience.

 

Things can always be MUCH better. Even millionaires can become billionaires or B list celebrities turn into A list. You could work the fryer at McDonalds for 5 years and eventually become shift manager. - The difference is that not all of us are looking for a better deal. That's kind of a shady mindset to begin with. A cop or fireman doesn't start the job hoping that they'll one day they'll own a yacht and helicopter. A lot of people are totally fine having a comfortable life despite knowing that there's always going to be something or someone that might be better.

 

And no matter how much you look at the greener grass, very, very rarely does it actually become your lawn. You usually just end up in a big pile of mud.... alone.

 

Especially when you use too much fertilizer:laugh:

[wmacbride]

Naw, I wouldn't kill my family for a billion dollars, I don't know if I would be capable of killing any one no matter the price.

 

I also do not place adultery on the same magnitude as murder. I can, and have forgiven adultery. And I have been forgiven for adultery.

 

I understood how and why he was unhappy, and how it led to poor choices. He understood how and why I was unhappy, and how it led to poor choices.

 

Clearly, different people place different amounts of weight on having sex outside of a committed relationship.

 

For us, its a forgivable offence - for others, its apparently a completely earth shattering experience for which there is no recovery.

 

For some, it is an earth shattering experience, and it is a forgivable offence...under certain circumstances.

[wmacbride]

HereNorThere. Some FANTASTIC posts!!

 

"It's part of my psychology. I am not willing to trade my loved one's life for some fun or a better life for myself. Actually, it's quite opposite. I would gladly trade my life for theirs, even the ones who have betrayed me the most. - When other people are running out of the burning building, I'll be the guy you see running in."

 

This is exactly how I'd describe my Dad. All of my life (until my brother died) he was the happiest person I've ever known. He has always told these funny, loving, wonderful stories from his childhood.

 

One of his brothers tells the exact same stories as examples of misery, poverty & abuse. He has been miserable womanizer all his life. The grass can NEVER be green enough. He has many children who he wouldn't even recognize if he was sat next to them at the bus stop.

 

 

My brother is the never happy kind, but with him, it's always wanting more excitement.

He has a very high paying career - he's definitely a 1%'er- and owns several big homes and condos, summer home and other properties, a huge boat, and more.

He earns a seven figure income, but it isn't enough. he always wants more, be that money, things, people in his life, new experiences. It's almost as if he has a list somewhere of things to check off in his life, and if he does them, maybe he'll finally be happy.

 

He's also an extreme extrovert, and needs to have many people around. He cheated on his first wife, married his ow, they got divorced, and he had moved on through a long string of women and what he refers to as "relationships".

 

By many measures, he has everything that should make a person happy, yet he is not. He is desperately unhappy and discontented, and told me as much.

 

I love my brother, and I know he loves me, but we are incredibly different people. I am happy, he is not. I look at his life and his money and sometimes think how much easier it would be to be that financially secure, but when I see how unhappy he is, I wouldn't want it, as it seems to drag him down.

[wmacbride]

Zyban has been approved here for nearly 30 years, so maybe you're thinking of the new Chantix/Verenicline smoking medication that's a little more recent?

 

Either way, there's a lot of different other antidepressants like TCAs, TECAs, MAOIs, and a bunch of different atypical antidepressants, so there's really no way of guessing. Although each can cause sexual issues, it's the SSRIs and SNRIs (the molecules with the strongest affinity for serotonin selectively) that seem to have more incidences of major sexual dysfunction. They're also the most widely prescribed antidepressants, so Helen Fisher really made me think about the effect the drugs are having on people. It's even worse when your research their efficacy rates and realize there's not even a lot of evidence they are beneficial for mild to moderate depression.

 

Glad I'm not the only one who forgot to turn off auto play on YouTube.

 

There has been, at least a round here, an increase in the number of people seeking a medical "cure" for their unhappiness and discontent.

I'm not discounting depression or saying it's not real. I know for sure hat it's real, but it's become almost commonplace that people get a little blue, are bored or discontented int heir life and expect a medication to fix these problems.

 

Depression is one thing, discontentment is another.

[Confused9999]

My brother is the never happy kind, but with him, it's always wanting more excitement.

He has a very high paying career - he's definitely a 1%'er- and owns several big homes and condos, summer home and other properties, a huge boat, and more.

He earns a seven figure income, but it isn't enough. he always wants more, be that money, things, people in his life, new experiences. It's almost as if he has a list somewhere of things to check off in his life, and if he does them, maybe he'll finally be happy.

 

He's also an extreme extrovert, and needs to have many people around. He cheated on his first wife, married his ow, they got divorced, and he had moved on through a long string of women and what he refers to as "relationships".

 

By many measures, he has everything that should make a person happy, yet he is not. He is desperately unhappy and discontented, and told me as much.

 

I love my brother, and I know he loves me, but we are incredibly different people. I am happy, he is not. I look at his life and his money and sometimes think how much easier it would be to be that financially secure, but when I see how unhappy he is, I wouldn't want it, as it seems to drag him down.

 

Very insightful.

It's like the movie stars and most very rich, famous people.

 

To get to where your brother is I am sure he worked hard and has a very strong drive.

Then of course once you get something the thrill goes away very fast and you are on to the next thrill. Wanting is more exciting then having!

 

They did survey of lottery winners and determined that the level of happiness only increased for several months after the win. Then went right back to their normal level.

 

They also did research on happiness and according to analysis:

50% of your happiness level you are born with .. Either you have a happy personality or not.

Another 30% is your upbringing

And only 20% is actually life situations.. E.g. Rich or poor or good job or not etc...

 

In another study it was shown, which is inline with Maslow pyramid, that your happiness increases as you earn closer to ~$80k. However anything more then that will not increase your happiness, or increase it very little.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Confused9999

[WasOtherWoman]

 

Then realize during affair that some things can be MUCH better and are not happy anymore with the status quo.

 

But mostly that is just temporary happiness. It is really hard to compete with the "shininess" of a new relationship.

 

At some point, despite how much you love each other and do your best to keep things new and fresh, you can't "unhear" years of each other's stories.

[mellywell]

Another controversial line in her talk that made me go "oh boy...."

 

"The victim of the affair is not always the victim of the marriage"

[dichotomy]

The speaker talked about identity and wanting to explore being someone else. I hate to sound sexist - but I think this affects women in marriages more than men and is behind some wives affairs.. I think we (society) often desexulize being a wife/mom, it becomes hard also to let go and explore within those roles. Easier to risk exposing or exploring another side of you - with an outsider.

 

In another talk - she also explores this feeling from the other side -how to see your spouse partner beyond what you know in the home. She brought up an example of a wife attending a conference her husband was speaking at - seeing him on the stage - engaging others, being warmly received, and she got excited again over him - this "other" him. She encouraged spouses to seek out opportunists to see other sides and ways their spouse can be.

 

But of course these issues of identity, roles - has been discussed before here

[Confused9999]

But mostly that is just temporary happiness. It is really hard to compete with the "shininess" of a new relationship.

 

At some point, despite how much you love each other and do your best to keep things new and fresh, you can't "unhear" years of each other's stories.

 

My view is that as a person you act different with different people, depending on the personality of the other people.

Therefore it's quite normal for some things to be better with your AP vs your wife. And of course there are no day to day problems, household problems, family issues, etc..etc...

 

But in my case I was MUCH more free sexually with the AP and also would be able to be more open and honest, in some aspects, then I was with my wife.

I was not so naive to think that she is soooo much better then my wife.

 

However I was able to now see things in my current marriage that I would want to improve or change because it opening my eyes to what I am missing.

[WasOtherWoman]

In another talk - she also explores this feeling from the other side -how to see your spouse partner beyond what you know in the home. She brought up an example of a wife attending a conference her husband was speaking at - seeing him on the stage - engaging others, being warmly recieved, and she got excited again over him - this "other" him.

 

But of course these issues of identity, roles - has been discussed before here

 

This has always been a huge appeal to me. My husband is the CEO of a large well-known company. I love going to events with him and seeing that side of him. It is also fun for him to engage at my work events, so he can see me in the same light.

 

I really think it is a great thing for a marriage.

[WasOtherWoman]

My view is that as a person you act different with different people, depending on the personality of the other people.

Therefore it's quite normal for some things to be better with your AP vs your wife. And of course there are no day to day problems, household problems, family issues, etc..etc...

 

But in my case I was MUCH more free sexually with the AP and also would be able to be more open and honest, in some aspects, then I was with my wife.

I was not so naive to think that she is soooo much better then my wife.

 

However I was able to now see things in my current marriage that I would want to improve or change because it opening my eyes to what I am missing.

 

I hear you, one person can never fill 100% of our needs/wants. We just have to be smart enough to figure out who fills them better and then work on the rest of it.

 

My H and I had a rockin' sex life while in our affair . It is still pretty darn good, but certainly nothing like it was at first, how could it be after 18 years?? We do our best though to keep it fresh.

 

We also work hard at making sure that the mundane (household problems, chores, etc) does not have a place in our relationship... that definitely helps.

[Confused9999]

The speaker talked about identity and wanting to explore being someone else. I hate to sound sexist - but I think this affects women in marriages more than men and is behind some wives affairs.. I think we (society) often desexulize being a wife/mom, it becomes hard also to let go and explore within those roles. Easier to risk exposing or exploring another side of you - with an outsider.

 

In another talk - she also explores this feeling from the other side -how to see your spouse partner beyond what you know in the home. She brought up an example of a wife attending a conference her husband was speaking at - seeing him on the stage - engaging others, being warmly received, and she got excited again over him - this "other" him. She encouraged spouses to seek out opportunists to see other sides and ways their spouse can be.

 

But of course these issues of identity, roles - has been discussed before here

 

Not just women but men too.

 

You typically end up in a pattern/rutt that you see your spouse in a certain way.

To get out of that, especially in the bedroom is very difficult since it would not only take a lot of effort and frank communication that you might not be used to but it would be a huge change to the status quo.

 

And of course like my previous post... It's much easier to build on the newness and maybe more sexually open personality of your AP then rock the boat with your spouse.

[HereNorThere]

I think a lot of this about entitlement and managing your expectations.

 

Seriously, if you are looking for hot, inhibited sex, why in the world would you get married in the first place? I've literally never been in any sort of relationship where the sexual newness didn't wear off and it became a bit mundane.

 

I've always gone into a relationship with the idea that I am trading obsessive, fickle love for attachment love. They are just two totally different things. Obsessive love will stop by after the bars close if you answer their text, attachment love will wipe your ass when you're bedridden in a coma.

 

I'm not saying that you shouldn't try to keep things fresh, but you have to be realistic about these type of things. It's just odd to me that these older people become so concerned with something that I was over by my 30s. Maybe people just have different priorities or something, but I'm just not obsessed with sex to the point where I would hurt some to get it. And that's not to say I don't have a healthy libido or think that no sex isn't damaging to a marriage, but each one of my friends who had affairs actually had good sex lives already and got greedy and wanted more with someone else.

 

This forum has me scared to death that I'm going to hit 45 and regress into my teenage self again.

[Confused9999]

 

This forum has me scared to death that I'm going to hit 45 and regress into my teenage self again.

 

Lolol. Where do you think midlife crisis comes from.. It's not a new concept!

 

Anything can become dull over time, no matter how great it started as.

Billy Joel once said about Christy Brickly, no matter how hot, beautiful, enchanting, and amazing a girl may be, there is always someone who is tired of her.

 

In my case.. I was used to the sex not being that exciting. I was used to the same routine and was not "unhappy".

I was not looking for an affair or excitement, it was a work thing and just happened over time. Before I knew it, one thing lead to another and I was in full speed.

Then I realized what I was missing and how much I missed it.

 

Also as a background my wife is not my first and only girlfriend out of school and I have had many sexual partners before I got married so I understand Obsessive sexual love vs true love is not the same, and the grass is definitely not greener!

[RecentChange]

I always kinda head scratch at the "if you want great sex, don't get married!" (or committed) comments....

 

So, if you love great sex, and its really important to you, never fall madly in love and commit to someone - got it.

 

For me, sex is important. Kinda kinky, wild, GREAT sex is important. But - as you have pointed out, time can take its toll - for us, it took about 10 years, and some ups and downs before our sex life became quite mundane.

 

I didn't think it was lacking - like another poster said, I wasn't "unhappy" - perhaps a bit subconsciously disgruntled - but unlike some stories, it wasn't like I said to myself one day "I need more sex, and I am going to go find it!"

 

But over months one thing lead to another and this happened:

 

Then I realized what I was missing and how much I missed it

 

It was like a revelation. Holy ****!! How could I have been so complacent? I miss THIS. I NEED this. This makes me feel good, and alive. How did I let THIS fade away?

 

As others have pointed out. I learned a lot about myself. Found parts of myself that had been long buried.

 

My partner and I have had frank discussions post D Day - One thing that came up - he asked "why didn't you ever tell me you wanted X, Y, Z" and the truth is I never knew I wanted it - until I experienced it.

[dichotomy]

We are talking sex here right now – affairs can be about more than sex of course – other reasons, things missing.

 

But since my marriage has involved both affair (emotional) and sex (drop off) I spent a lot of time understanding how and why sex cools down or drops off. I also understood that if my wife had chosen to move in or marry OM (he was not going to – but if he did) that 95% certainty their “amazing sexual chemistry” would have doped off as well after years – and he would have cheated on her eventually because he can’t settle for same old (this is why she did not choose him).

 

The "new sex" brain chemicals do wear off, and if you’re not the type who can live on the different stimulus of long term bonding - and be ok with that – then you best off being single with numerous partners - or swinging I guess. But then we are back to a discussion on monogamy.

[dichotomy]

This has always been a huge appeal to me. My husband is the CEO of a large well-known company. I love going to events with him and seeing that side of him. It is also fun for him to engage at my work events, so he can see me in the same light.

 

I really think it is a great thing for a marriage.

 

 

The most adventuresome sex my wife wanted in recent years, was after a company party she was invited to with me and we went to a hotel next door afterwards - no kids with us. Different me, different environment or what ever - but different her came out. She asked me NOT to ask her where that impulse (for the type of sex she wanted) came from or why she wanted to do it. I just smiled and said does not matter just feel free anytime to get kinky with me.

[Confused9999]

We are talking sex here right now – affairs can be about more than sex of course – other reasons, things missing.

 

But since my marriage has involved both affair (emotional) and sex (drop off) I spent a lot of time understanding how and why sex cools down or drops off. I also understood that if my wife had chosen to move in or marry OM (he was not going to – but if he did) that 95% certainty their “amazing sexual chemistry” would have doped off as well after years – and he would have cheated on her eventually because he can’t settle for same old (this is why she did not choose him).

 

The "new sex" brain chemicals do wear off, and if you’re not the type who can live on the different stimulus of long term bonding - and be ok with that – then you best off being single with numerous partners - or swinging I guess. But then we are back to a discussion on monogamy.

 

Absolutely! It's dopamine in your brain. The excitement, secrecy, and newness makes it HOT.

Studies showed its the same affect in your brain as cocain or heroine. Also just as addictive and hard to stop!!

 

Having said that my affair lasted a while and not a one night stand and the sex was always hot. So maybe we were more compatible in our sexual ways or maybe we were still in a bubble or maybe eventually it would of worn off.

But I know that until the end it was still really hot.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

I've watched that several times over the years. The one line that really stands out is that the cheater is not looking for another person, but another version of self. That aptly applies to my wife's affair; she wanted another version of herself.