A pattern I've noticed

[DJOkawari]

In your life, you play many roles and for me growing up I was more a part of [the group of men who have little to no experience with women].. After my not-so-recent break-up I've transitioned more into [the group of men who have a lot of experience with women].. I would not say I've reached the level of numbness that is conveyed by some [people] but I can see it being the conclusion of the path I'm on.

 

For example: about a year ago, looking to have some new experiences I began to explore the NYC party scene. I ended up finding social climbing interesting, so I pursued it. I'm not at the apex of the scene yet, but I'm pretty damn close...the types of people and parties I run into are the sort of things people make movies about. Unfortunately, I'm going numb.

 

The experiences have been amazing when looked at individually. When I look at them as an aggregate, I end up feeling:

 

a) My threshold for fun, excitement,etc. continues to rise. What I'd get excited about a year ago is something I'd sleep through now. The end of this path appears to be becoming numb.

 

b) I've seen a lot of reality - the kind, the cruel, the irrational, the fortunate, etc. It is making me somewhat hard. It has moved me from a 100% idealistic person to a somewhat realistic person. The end of this path appears to be becoming jaded.

 

My personal fears are that I'll eventually end up unable to connect - just as I see many posters here struggle with. I feel that the issue for many of the guys in group 2 is that they've been with so many girls, with so many different qualities that no relationship ends up being special enough for them to feel fulfilled. Personally, I feel that the more I see how horrible and how wonderful humans can be to each other, the more I lose my sense of wonder.

 

That wonder or blind optimism appears to be a requirement to suspending reality and trying to building something magnificent, together...but apparently that's how most of us are best fulfilled.

 

 

Thoughts on the idea? Am I being ridiculous?

 

I think this struggle is symptomatic of growing up male in the West. Masculinity, in the mass media, is defined in a way that, when pursued, seems to ruin your ability to appreciate life (discontently chasing the next hot girl, the next paycheck, the next party, etc). Of course, femininity is just as screwed up and monetized as well.

 

These unreachable ideals will keep you hungry and that can be monetized. Another key societal factor is that these men have no one else to speak to, and so they post here.

 

Mostly I just want to discuss, I just thought I'd seen pattern. Maybe I'm crazy. What do you think?

Edited April 19, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[SammySammy]

I think you're absolutely right.

 

The perpetual search for more leaves us jaded and unfulfilled.

 

The guys who have trouble getting women are frustrated because that's what they think they should be doing. The guys who never really had a problem getting women are jaded and disillusioned because they have pushed the limits so much until there's no where else to go. Seen women do things that have totally destroyed their respect for and trust in women.

 

And the women have their own set of problems and frustrations.

 

Maybe true fulfillment is not in what popular culture teaches us.

[grays]

That's really interesting and I think I can see it in some of the men I've dated.

 

I wonder if it really is specific to men somehow, and why. I think I've had something equivalent to the lifestyle you're talking about, tho maybe not to the same degree.

 

I was married for 25 years and then went completely crazy when I was liberated. I'm pretty sure I had more than 70 partners in about a year and a half. And quite a few really wild experiences that I had thought were the kinds of things you see in movies not real life (mostly sex clubs and sex parties, but also men who liked all kinds of things I never thought about during my married years, lol).

 

I mostly had a blast, but the thing that brought me back to some semblance of normalcy was pretty much just missionary position. I know that sounds stupid, but it's kinda true. The first step was being with a really calm guy who was just loving and decent and really into and good at missionary. And it felt better emotionally and physically than any of the craziness.

 

I was with him for about eight months (while I was continuing my other shenanigans) but the last time we were together it dawned on me that what I had with him was 90% of what I wanted, but I knew we weren't really connected emotionally quite right. And about a week after that realization I fell in love with someone. And I swear to god, on paper sex w him was super tame, all vanilla, but just kissing him was so much more intense than anything I had done before that. Sadly he had to move half way around the world.

 

But I have in no way gone numb! I think maybe the opposite! I feel like having gone out there and seen what there is I'm more in touch with what I want and need. And I think I'm a better lover, too. So, even if I'm having vanilla sex it's a whole nother level than what I was doing a couple of years ago, before I went crazy. I feel very optimistic about being able to find it, eventually. I feel more sensitive and more likely to experience things deeply. I think being a ho has served me quite well! ?

 

Now I'm in this weird limbo where I really just want something normal and real but I keep falling into freakishness because that's more available and I'm a social person, not going to sit around bored and lonely. But I have no doubt that eventually...

 

Interestingly, tho, I've recently gotten involved with a freakish guy (awesome, but a little too young for me to take seriously), very much like I was at the height of my crazy, who I've kinda brought back down to earth. We've been enjoying a lot of missionary and a lot of sweet kissing. If I manage to really turn him, I'll have to come back and let you know. lol

[thecrucible]

On the contrary, I think the more experience you have of the bad stuff, the more likely you are to correctly identify with what's genuine and truly heart warming. Being less likely to fall for someone, surely makes it more real when you do?

 

When I was less experienced, certain actions would mean something to me in a relationship but they no longer mean anything to me now. I used to be really big on certain romantic gestures like a man giving me flowers, taking me out for nice meals and that kind of thing. But now, while I still appreciate that, it just puts a bad taste in my mouth (experience with players) and I'm more keen for bonding over intimate conversation, walking outdoors, basically anything free rather than lavish gestures. And when I say intimate conversation, I mean actually genuinely developing an emotional connection and not just hearing a series of sweet nothings.

 

And, I never thought I would say as I have a high sex drive, but due to being fed up with the shallow ones, I'm far more restrained and probably come across more prudish than I would really want to because I feel like I can take my time with sex rather than rush into things. I'm not religious and having sex early in a relationship has never bothered me before but it's more like "Why don't we take our time?" and build up the tension a little more. It means that some guys just drop off the radar but I can't go through that again.

 

You spoke of a "sense of wonder". I have lost that. I wouldn't look up at a man with wide eyes so easily now but that's good - it means I have self-confidence and I don't see any man as better than me, even if he rejects me and I can spot the cocky ones more easily. All in all I think it's better to be aware of things. I mean in a way I'm glad I've seen the meat market out there. It makes me painfully aware of my own level of attractiveness - when I'm skinny enough and wear make-up I turn a few heads but otherwise I blend in like most people do. I know I am nothing special looks wise and I don't expect any man I'm with to only want to admire me the rest of his life but I am hoping he would like me as a whole package. I've not given up on finding a man who genuinely desires me sexually and emotionally but I'm not alarmed by the fact that I may not be the best he's ever had.

 

Sorry waffling a bit but I'd say I have more depth of character due to experience - less obsession with looking good all the time and I'm more concerned by achieving goals for myself, developing good character with a bit of focus on turning out well (just less focus on my exterior qualities than before).

[GoodOnPaper]

I think that more fundamentally, both groups struggle with putting together physical and emotional chemistries. They are just mirror images of each other. Even though I've been married a long time, I still consider myself to be spinning my wheels in [the group with less experience]. Compatibility, liking my wife, feeling an emotional connection, etc., is a piece of cake but I will never experience the kind of intense physical chemistry that [the group with more experience] do on a routine basis. I've always felt that if I could have graduated to [the latter group], finding an LTR partner would be a snap but maybe it's not . . .

Edited April 19, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Quote redacted and response thereto edited.

[thecrucible]

I forgot to say that I am 26 year old woman. Whoops - forgot this thread was addressed to men. I think this stuff still applies to me though and maybe to me it's part of me growing as an adult - trying to appreciate what I have rather than chasing everything and wanting what's real, not just the superficial trappings of life.

 

My personal fears are that I'll eventually end up unable to connect - just as I see many [people] struggle with. I feel that the issue for many of the guys in [the latter group] is that they've been with so many girls, with so many different qualities that no relationship ends up being special enough for them to feel fulfilled.

 

Do you mean the GIGS when you wonder whether what you have is enough or whether you could do better and get a girl who's just that little more perfect? I actually read a really sweet article by a man about his wife and he says he doesn't think about getting better because the sum of all their experiences together is unique to their relationship and not something you could replace, like love is a long adventure.

 

Personally, I feel that the more I see how horrible and how wonderful humans can be to each other, the more I lose my sense of wonder.

 

Well I lost a lot of sense of wonder when I got in a bad relationship at 18 and the guy was abusive towards me - it was my first relationship and totally eroded a lot of my romantic notions. This guy I was dating was a big charmer and popular with everyone so it was difficult for me to have that experience of him while everyone else loved him. I think this is why I find it hard to fall for a guy very quickly these days.

 

The very fact that you are worrying about this shows you have deep feelings so I don't think you have lost your sense of emotion.

 

That wonder or blind optimism appears to be a requirement to suspending reality and trying to building something magnificent, together...but apparently that's how most of us are best fulfilled.

 

Well as a woman I worry about this because I wonder if men really want me to be totally laid back and carefree with a timeless innocence. I'm fairly easy going but I can't be the sweet innocent girl anymore. I don't have blind optimism - does that make me romantically less appealing?

Another key societal factor is that these men have no one else to speak to, and so they post here.

 

I think it's horrible that the world can be so competitive and freer sexuality can make people without that experience feel like they are some kind of loser by not partaking in it. I think you can see this competitive status seeking stuff in less experienced men who would go for the most desired woman in their social group ignoring other women and getting a woman's status confused with her objective attractiveness. So for instance, they might find an equally attractive woman less attractive because she doesn't wear fashionable clothes.(not sure how best to put that into words).Then having a girlfriend initially becomes some kind of trophy and a tick box that you've become a man. This was what it felt like for me dating men when I was younger.

Edited April 19, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Fix quote

[grays]

You spoke of a "sense of wonder". I have lost that. I wouldn't look up at a man with wide eyes so easily now but that's good - it means I have self-confidence and I don't see any man as better than me, even if he rejects me and I can spot the cocky ones more easily.

 

I identify w so much in your first post, but this is huge! A couple of weeks ago I was with the most amazing looking guy (I'm just totally normal, don't even know how this **** happens to me! lol). He was 6'6" and beautiful! But I kept getting this feeling like he wasn't what I wanted. I felt a little flat about him. There was a time where him wanting to be with me would have been so intoxicating that I wouldn't even be thinking about what I wanted/needed. I woulda just been so amazed that he liked me. I feel like I don't need that validation anymore. I know I've got something more real and substantial to share with a partner than that guy has. And I need to find my match, someone who can be real with me, too.

Edited April 19, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Question about thread disposition redacted.

[William]

Folks, one of our other moderators was at a loss regarding how to retain content but redact references to members and our forum in general, which is disallowed, so we cleaned it up as best possible to retain the topical content within our guidelines. Remember, discussion of members, other threads, or our forum dynamics in general is fine, via our private message system. Discuss topics from real life on forum. Thanks!

[preraph]

I have also swam with the in crowd, and I enjoyed it, but you just have to see each person and situation for what it is and appreciate it for the experiences you are privy to but not assume that everyone you encounter will end up a true friend.

 

I think it's best in life and especially love to learn to enjoy the journey, know when to walk away, and when you become disgruntled, go down a different path.