Communicating willingness to change - lost cause?

[scratch]

About two months ago, I went out a few times with a woman and we really clicked om several levels, except for one HUGE problem. I don't really like monogomy, and don't practice it unless I feel a relationship has real potential. She, on the other hand, couldn't be happy in a sexual relationship that was not exclusive. I would have preferred to keep seeing her without sleeping with her until I had gotten to know her better and was able to make a more informed decision as to whether she could be "the one," but she chose to just break it off. Things ended in an extremely open and amicable fashion, and we both expressed respect for the honesty and straightforwardness of the other.

 

Two months and a half dozen women later, losing her still gnaws at me. I'm considering asking her to give it another chance, based on her terms regarding monogamy. How might I approach her about it while keeping the begging and desperation to a minimum? Is it a lost cause after the time that has elapsed? What are the chances that she had another reason for breaking it off - does her stated reason seem legit?

 

Let me know if there are other facts I may provide to clarify any issues. Thanks in advance for all advice.

[ConfusedInOC]

I'm confused. Are you saying you wanted to date her but have sex with other women? Or just that you don't want to be exclusive with one person and continue to date others?

 

Just on the surface it seems to me you have a problem with commitment. If you find someone you like, why is it not OK for you to monogamous? Isn't that what you would want of her? How would you feel if the situation was reversed?

 

I don't see where her request was out of line. It seems to me you have a difference in values. What has changed about you, other than losing her, that makes you believe it will work out now? She may be seeing someone else who is OK with being exclusive.

 

What scares you about being monogamous?

[scratch]

Originally posted by ConfusedInOC

I'm confused. Are you saying you wanted to date her but have sex with other women? Or just that you don't want to be exclusive with one person and continue to date others?

 

Yes, I wanted to date her and have sex with other women until I could make a more informed decision as to whether she could be someone with whom I could have a serious relationship. Temporally, about four months. I don't like to be exclusive with someone until I can make that decision.

 

Originally posted by ConfusedInOC Just on the surface it seems to me you have a problem with commitment. If you find someone you like, why is it not OK for you to monogamous? Isn't that what you would want of her? How would you feel if the situation was reversed?

 

It is ok for me to be monogomous, but I have to like her a LOT. With respect to the reversal, I don't really get jealous if someone I'm seeing sleeps around as long as she respects my right to do so, and there is no lying involved. I know I'm odd about this.

 

Originally posted by ConfusedInOC I don't see where her request was out of line. It seems to me you have a difference in values. What has changed about you, other than losing her, that makes you believe it will work out now? She may be seeing someone else who is OK with being exclusive.

 

I don't think she is seeing someone else (she has an online dating profile she rarely goes 24 hours without checking). Nothing has changed besides my losing her, but she's been the one girl I've dated since last Summer with real potential, and I'm now willing to try monogamy (or no sex if she wants to wait) while I get to know her, whereas I wasn't before.

 

Originally posted by ConfusedInOC What scares you about being monogamous?

 

I don't think it's fear so much as discomfort. I don't strongly associate sex and love, have very little jealousy, and greatly enjoy chasing and seducing new and different women. I'm willing to stop doing it, but the emotional benefit has to outweigh the cost.

[millefiori]

Originally posted by scratch

I don't strongly associate sex and love, have very little jealousy, and greatly enjoy chasing and seducing new and different women. I'm willing to stop doing it, but the emotional benefit has to outweigh the cost.

This question is off-topic, but could you explain your position a little bit?

 

My guess on your situation from a point of view of someone who also is not comfortable with idea of a potential partner sleeping around while dating her:

I think for you just changing your mind is a lot easier than for her. She's not comfortable with you sleeping around, because she has certain standards or beliefs. As you didn't match her expectations of a partner she broke it off; while it happened in a nice way, it's very likely that she considers the differences between you two to be too big. You broke it off already once, who says that you won't break it off again after a while with her?

 

May I make another guess? I think you're head over heels over this woman. Confess it. And you like the challenge that she posed for you, because she didn't give in or whined. You can win if she had a strong interest in you before; if her interest was only low you can forget it, because it is very likely that she will perceive the gap between you two as simply too big.

 

If I were you, I'd try to ask her out again. If she liked you a lot, she will have thought about you and be glad you contacted her again. If she didn't like you, it won't matter if you made a fool out of yourself for a couple of minutes. I really wouldn't invest too much time with plotting a cunning plan, just go and ask.

 

Do you think you can be with someone in the long run who has different expectations concerning fidelity and similar issues?

[scratch]

Originally posted by millefiori

This question is off-topic, but could you explain your position a little bit?

 

I'll gladly try, but it may be the kind of thing you either get, or you don't. To me, love is truth, accountability, and trust. If I care for someone, the fact that they are engaging in a physical act to which I assign little significance with another person, in and of itself, doesn't make me feel like they care for me any less. The converse is true as well, of course. I don't think I can explain why I don't feel love and sex are closely correlated - can anyone explain why they feel they are?

 

Originally posted by millefiori

As you didn't match her expectations of a partner she broke it off; while it happened in a nice way, it's very likely that she considers the differences between you two to be too big. You broke it off already once, who says that you won't break it off again after a while with her?

 

This is what I am afraid of, and pretty much what she stated. I am looking for a way to communicate to her that I am, indeed, willing to meet her expectations, and am trying to figure out how to do it without seeming pathetic, which would just completely turn her off.

 

Originally posted by millefiori

May I make another guess? I think you're head over heels over this woman. Confess it. And you like the challenge that she posed for you, because she didn't give in or whined. You can win if she had a strong interest in you before; if her interest was only low you can forget it, because it is very likely that she will perceive the gap between you two as simply too big.

 

I do like her a lot, or I wouldn't even be considering this. I don't think it's a matter of challenge, but does have to do with how she was blunt and considerate when she ended it. That increased my respect for her significantly.

 

Her interest seemed strong. Body language, kissing, etc. I can provide some facts if you think they'd help determine her interest level.

 

Originally posted by millefiori

If I were you, I'd try to ask her out again. If she liked you a lot, she will have thought about you and be glad you contacted her again. If she didn't like you, it won't matter if you made a fool out of yourself for a couple of minutes. I really wouldn't invest too much time with plotting a cunning plan, just go and ask.

 

I was asking not about where to take her or bring her, but how to ask her out and what to say to explain the terms under which I'd like to date.

 

Originally posted by millefiori

Do you think you can be with someone in the long run who has different expectations concerning fidelity and similar issues?

 

There are some things I can compormise for the right person. Fidelity is one of them.

[jen_jen_heartbroken]

Originally posted by scratch

There are some things I can compormise for the right person. Fidelity is one of them.

 

If you really cared for her, or were in love with her, then fidelity wouldn't feel like a "compromise" to you. It would be something that you desired and wanted.

[scratch]

Originally posted by jen_jen_heartbroken

If you really cared for her, or were in love with her, then fidelity wouldn't feel like a "compromise" to you. It would be something that you desired and wanted.

 

I understand what you're saying, and that that's how most people feel. Perhaps my explanation above about how I'm wired a little differently was insufficent.

 

I know I'm not in love with her; I only knew her for a month. All I said was that I perceive her as someone for whom I could develop strong feelings were we to get to know each other better.

[jen_jen_heartbroken]

I think you need to respect her wishes to date someone who is willing to be in an exclusive relationship with her. If you hesitate at all on this issue, then you are probably not a good match for each other, and it would be best not to pursue this -- not only for your sake, but especially hers.

[scratch]

Originally posted by jen_jen_heartbroken

I think you need to respect her wishes to date someone who is willing to be in an exclusive relationship with her. If you hesitate at all on this issue, then you are probably not a good match for each other, and it would be best not to pursue this -- not only for your sake, but especially hers.

 

Did you note the original question posed in the thread?

 

Originally posted by ME

I'm considering asking her to give it another chance, based on her terms regarding monogamy. How might I approach her about it while keeping the begging and desperation to a minimum?

 

To the extent I contact her at all, it will be for the sole purpose of expressing my willingness to be in such a relationship. Do you mean that because I've hesitated in the past, we're not well matched, and it's a lost cause? Or, do you mean that if I try to work it out with her going forward, I cannot hesitate?

[SoleMate]

I'm considering asking her to give it another chance, based on her terms regarding monogamy. How might I approach her about it while keeping the begging and desperation to a minimum?

Well...don't beg. Don't act desperate. Do be aware that you can conform your behavior to her expectations does due to motivations other than desperation.

 

Is it a lost cause after the time that has elapsed?

No, two months is not the length of time that would cause this to not work.

 

What are the chances that she had another reason for breaking it off - does her stated reason seem legit?

Her reason definitely sounds "legit", and likely to be an accurate reflection of her feelings. I tend to think she did not have another reason. Do be aware that to her, and many other women/men, her desire for sexual exclusivity is not just an incidental or detail, it is major and fundamental.

 

I don't strongly associate sex and love...and greatly enjoy chasing and seducing new and different women. I'm willing to stop doing it, but the emotional benefit has to outweigh the cost.

This is what would worry me if I were her. If serial seduction is a very important pastime for you, it's hard to see how or why you would stop. If you do stop, is it just because you are reluctantly acceding to her restrictions? Most women would prefer to think that they were meeting your physical and emtoional needs so fully that you no longer had any serious desire for other women. Given a choice between conventional fidelity (founded on people really WANTING and CHOOSING to be 1:1 because 1:1 feels best and is the only way that makes sense for them), and the sort you are willing to agree to (agreeing to be 1:1 because it is a necessary condition for you to have a chance with her), I - and likely she - would choose conventional, hands down.

 

If she asked for advice, I would suggest to her that you are a poor risk. There is quite a gap between your beliefs and desires, and hers.

[jen_jen_heartbroken]

Solemate just described what I was getting at.

 

I might also add that another reason you are incompatible with this woman is because you don't relate sex with love -- i guarantee that someone who desires mutual exclusivity most definitely does. Additionally, even if you were to make the "compromise" of fidelity, your previous promiscuity would probably become a sore issue.

[scratch]

Originally posted by SoleMate

This is what would worry me if I were her. If serial seduction is a very important pastime for you, it's hard to see how or why you would stop.

 

Because I promised I would stop. Serial seduction is not an addiction, and not nearly worth lying breaking my word - almost nothing is. This kind of prioritization is something she is aware of, and she professes to hold me in high esteeem because of it. In fact, she told me that she'd never been in a situation where a man was willing to be so honest (about my distaste for monogamy) knowing that it likely meant losing her.

 

Originally posted by SoleMate

If you do stop, is it just because you are reluctantly acceding to her restrictions? Most women would prefer to think that they were meeting your physical and emtoional needs so fully that you no longer had any serious desire for other women. Given a choice between conventional fidelity (founded on people really WANTING and CHOOSING to be 1:1 because 1:1 feels best and is the only way that makes sense for them), and the sort you are willing to agree to (agreeing to be 1:1 because it is a necessary condition for you to have a chance with her), I - and likely she - would choose conventional, hands down.

 

This is an outstanding point, thanks for bringing it to my attention. At first, I'd absolutely be reluctantly acceding to her wishes in the hope that, as our relationship develops, I'd feel positive about the fact that we're exclusive. I have gotten to that point before, and suspect I will again, with her or someone else who becomes special. I won't lie about my reasons, but that is my hope. As I said above, if she wants to wait to have sex until I am more certain, I'm willing.

 

If that's not enough for her, so be it. That's all I have to give.

[jen_jen_heartbroken]

This makes me sad. Someone is going to get hurt.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by scratch

Yes, I wanted to date her and have sex with other women until I could make a more informed decision as to whether she could be someone with whom I could have a serious relationship. Temporally, about four months. I don't like to be exclusive with someone until I can make that decision.

 

Some people don't like the idea of sharing. I'm one of those that can relate to her. If you're with me and want to date, that means you don't date anyone else. I *personally* don't feel her request was out of line.

 

 

It is ok for me to be monogomous, but I have to like her a LOT. With respect to the reversal, I don't really get jealous if someone I'm seeing sleeps around as long as she respects my right to do so, and there is no lying involved. I know I'm odd about this.

 

I agree, it's unusual behavior. Do you not understand how she could feel differently about it? It's as if you put your own physical needs above anything else. That's how it's being perceived.

 

I don't think she is seeing someone else (she has an online dating profile she rarely goes 24 hours without checking). Nothing has changed besides my losing her, but she's been the one girl I've dated since last Summer with real potential, and I'm now willing to try monogamy (or no sex if she wants to wait) while I get to know her, whereas I wasn't before.

 

What's changed about you that would convince her you are being honest? There's a trust issue I see from the get go.

 

I don't think it's fear so much as discomfort. I don't strongly associate sex and love, have very little jealousy, and greatly enjoy chasing and seducing new and different women. I'm willing to stop doing it, but the emotional benefit has to outweigh the cost.

 

Sex, IMHO, means NOTHING without love. Until you come to that same conclusion, I would suspect you're going to have a hard time convincing any woman that you're anything other than a player.

 

Good luck.

[miss-gonewest]

Scatch, first up I want to commend you for your honesty... you are in (what I see) a minority group. You can have sex without love and its brave of you to admit it.

 

I agree with the others - its not too late to contact her and in fact I encourage you to do so. It seems you can both communicate honestly and that will work in your favour.

 

And I don't think being honest will put her off. The fact that you have taken 2 months to mull over this, would show to me that you do care and that you are willing to compromise your 'desires' and 'habits' for me. The hard part would be to totally convince me that you can and will change, longterm.

 

However, the only way you can do all this if you do really want to be with her longterm.

 

If you are just testing a theory, or are acting on a hunch or are trying to prove a point, then don't do it to the poor girl... leave her be to find someone that can give her commitment and a loving sexual relationship.

 

You talk about not having sex with her to prove yourself, to me it sounds like you are making a sacrifice to her by doing this.... not a winning point I'm afraid. I'd need a better (and less selfless) argument to turn me around. Believe it or not, women have needs too - even those that do want fidelity and commitment.... what's to say she doesn't want to sleep with you?

 

This is a really interesting post - I am sorry if my reply is a bit vague, I'm trying to get my head around it... I can see where you are coming from, but its harder to see how she will react.

 

How in depth were you when you dated for the month? Was it movies and popcorn, or were you more intimate and romantic???

[millefiori]

I'm inclined to believe that you seem to have some good understanding of women and when you say you had kissed already then I guess, she was very interested in you. The fact that she ended things with you so well, makes her look like someone had her share of brooding about the connection between sex and love. She has chosen that she can't separate it, but she's willing to accept that for other people it is possible. She's also strong enough not to let her self-worth be compromised by jealousy and that's why she broke it off.

 

Let's assume she is interested in you:

 

Case #1:

 

She is strongly interested in you, but has also a very strong dislike of people who separate love and sex. You may or you may not convince her to give you a chance, depending on what is stronger, her interest in you or her inability to cope with someone who can look at sex as purely satisfaction of physical needs.

 

I'm afraid that these kind of relationship are difficult, because she will always be a tad suspicious and there are a lot of expectations on her part that you might not be able or willing to fulfill.

 

You should be careful with promising too much, because that will raise her level of interest as well and who knows if you can really stick it through your plan. Whether you call it being in love or not, I can tell you have a strong interest in this girl and you like her a lot. If your interest in her leads you to be too optimistic about yourself you'll end up hurting her feelings. She has her beliefs and you have yours and sometimes despite the affection it seems that people can not come to an agreement or acceptance of the other person's difference.

 

Case #2:

 

Here I assume that she is less strict concerning sex and love. She likes you and her letting you down so nicely was part of a plan to let you make up your mind without her pushing you into doing something that you didn't want at that time. If she had accepted something that was against her belief she would have been a doormat, so she ended it. If you talk with her about your change of attitude then she might give you a chance.

 

 

Everything you told us here, you should tell her as well when you approach her. Tell her how you feel about things and that's it. I don't know what other tactics we could recommend you except for telling the truth. She seems to be someone who appreciates it and being honest seems to be one of your strengths that people appreciate.

 

You offer what you have and you let her decide. She's probably someone who likes the facts on the table and then make her own decisions. Sugarcoating things is not going to work.

[zack121]

Different strokes for differnt folks...

 

Dude, sex and love IMHO should be one and the same, but I will not say that your wrong in your beliefs. You can be in "that" club, as some females are as well...

 

I dont base this on any religous beliefs, but rather from one person to person perspective. Some people have open marriages, so it can work.. but I would hope that most people want to find just one person to meet their desires and dedicate their lives to being with one person. Thats cool that your not the jealous type but you sound like you did not really know her long, and thats normal, to perhaps want to be with other people at that early stage (and young), but sooner or later you need to either find someone that has the same values, or decide to change for yourself. and give just one person all that you are. I actually respect the fact you told her, some people would not have and gone down the road of lies and deceit, so bravo for manning up and telling her 100% honesty is the best policy, but don;t 1/2 belive it, if shes what you want and you are willing to go the 1 on 1 without playing around, tell her, reassure her, even prove to her.. perhaps if your real about it, she'll love it.

 

I had a friend that was quite similar to you, he had the same kind of attiude when it came to sex and love, sex he went into what he described "porn star" mode. He got older, and wanted to be the opposite and has been ever since he got married (we all doubted it) but it can happen.

 

Personal request, just don;t string her along, you seem like a good guy, keep it that way and you can;t go wrong.

[scratch]

Originally posted by miss-gonewest

The hard part would be to totally convince me that you can and will change, longterm. However, the only way you can do all this if you do really want to be with her longterm. If you are just testing a theory, or are acting on a hunch or are trying to prove a point, then don't do it to the poor girl... leave her be to find someone that can give her commitment and a loving sexual relationship.

 

I'm not sure what affirmative act of convincing I would even consider attempting. I'm just going to tell her the truth, and keep my word to her. With the exception of having sex with multiple people while I decide whether I could date someone longterm, I don't think she wants me to change a thing.

 

Again, I would never go to all this trouble if I didn't think the person was special. Although I don't feel I know her well enough at this point to be sure I want something serious, everything I've seen (especially how openly we communicated about this difficult issue) indicates that there may be a good chance. I'm willing to forego other women while I find out. If I find out we are well suited, that's great, and I won't really want to sleep with other people (moreso than an average man). If it turns out that we are not, back into the dating pool I go, presumably using my style of dating multiple people while I get to know someone.

 

Originally posted by miss-gonewest

You talk about not having sex with her to prove yourself, to me it sounds like you are making a sacrifice to her by doing this.... not a winning point I'm afraid. I'd need a better (and less selfless) argument to turn me around. Believe it or not, women have needs too - even those that do want fidelity and commitment.... what's to say she doesn't want to sleep with you?

 

How in depth were you when you dated for the month? Was it movies and popcorn, or were you more intimate and romantic???

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd want to sleep with her right away. My only point was that I'd be willing to wait if she preferred. We went on two dinner dates, and talked for about three hours each time.

 

A bit of an update - I emailed her yesterday afternoon. Started with some very brief small talk, then said something to the effect of "I'll get to the point. I've been doing a lot of thinking in the past two months, and have a few things I'd really like to discuss. Would you be open to meeting for coffee this weekend?"

 

I would guess there's about a 30% chance that she agrees, but now I am on the horns of a dilemma. On one hand, I haven't known her for years, and don't want to make it sound like I am already in love with her, as that would be insincere, and a little creepy. On the other, as Solemate pointed out, I don't want to draw excessive attention to the fact that I am SETTLING for monogamy at this early stage of the relationship. And, this goes back to my original question - how can I communicate to her that I want to have a monogomous relationship without seeming like I am moving too fast or grudgingly agreeing to it? I feel like a sea captian trying to negotiate a narrow strait, where the slightest deviation from the course will cause the boat to run aground.

[jen_jen_heartbroken]

Have you thought of seeking professional/medical help for your promiscuous compulsions?

Your behavior is neither emotionally or physically healthy.

[scratch]

Originally posted by jen_jen_heartbroken

Have you thought of seeking professional/medical help for your promiscuous compulsions?

 

What are you talking about? I have a preference, not a compulsion. Never have I had a problem with my own infidelity.

[jen_jen_heartbroken]

Originally posted by scratch

With the exception of having sex with multiple people while I decide whether I could date someone longterm, I don't think she wants me to change a thing.

 

Again, I would never go to all this trouble if I didn't think the person was special. Although I don't feel I know her well enough at this point to be sure I want something serious, everything I've seen (especially how openly we communicated about this difficult issue) indicates that there may be a good chance. I'm willing to forego other women while I find out. If I find out we are well suited, that's great, and I won't really want to sleep with other people (moreso than an average man). If it turns out that we are not, back into the dating pool I go, presumably using my style of dating multiple people while I get to know someone.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd want to sleep with her right away. My only point was that I'd be willing to wait if she preferred. We went on two dinner dates, and talked for about three hours each time.

 

A bit of an update - I emailed her yesterday afternoon. Started with some very brief small talk, then said something to the effect of "I'll get to the point. I've been doing a lot of thinking in the past two months, and have a few things I'd really like to discuss. Would you be open to meeting for coffee this weekend?"

 

I would guess there's about a 30% chance that she agrees, but now I am on the horns of a dilemma. On one hand, I haven't known her for years, and don't want to make it sound like I am already in love with her, as that would be insincere, and a little creepy. On the other, as Solemate pointed out, I don't want to draw excessive attention to the fact that I am SETTLING for monogamy at this early stage of the relationship. And, this goes back to my original question - how can I communicate to her that I want to have a monogomous relationship without seeming like I am moving too fast or grudgingly agreeing to it? I feel like a sea captian trying to negotiate a narrow strait, where the slightest deviation from the course will cause the boat to run aground.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by scratch

I would guess there's about a 30% chance that she agrees.

 

Given the difference in your values, I would guess it's a lot less than 30%.

 

I see you write *I* a lot. Are you concerned with her value system?

 

Being monogamous should never be thought of as "settling." You'll understand this when you're truly, deeply in love with someone.

[scratch]

The bolded parts demonstrate compulsion? What does compulsion mean to you?

 

I thought it was particularly cute how you pulled the "I'd want to sleep with her right away" completely out of context, where I wrote it in response to someone who thought I was planning on withholding sex from her. Do most of the men you date not WANT to sleep with you right away?

 

And, if you could explain how "seeming like I am moving too fast or making a sacrifice" indicates compulsion, I'd be grateful.

[scratch]

Originally posted by ConfusedInOC

I see you write *I* a lot. Are you concerned with her value system?

 

Very much so, to the point where I am willing to modify my behavior to conform to it. Don't most help/support/advice lend themselves to the original poster using the first person quite a bit?

 

Originally posted by ConfusedInOC

Being monogamous should never be thought of as "settling." You'll understand this when you're truly, deeply in love with someone.

 

How can you be truly, deeply in love with someone you've just met? All one can do is have an intial spark, and cultivate it in hopes that it grows to become love.

 

I've been monogomous with someone before without thinking of it as settling, but we never even discussed it. It just happened through our natural interactions. I'm not saying this wouldn't have happened with this girl (I hope it will), but she cut it off before we ever got into a rythim (sp).