Just Lost my "Commitment Phobe"

[PursuitofPeace]

I'd been with Ex for 2.5 years and I'm now 30. Long story short, we were friends for the first 9 months, he pursued me HARD and swept me off my feet, flowers, vacations, promises of marriage, family, etc. We moved in together to our own place after 8 months of dating (his idea) and he even asked my somewhat parents about marriage.

 

Around the 1 year mark, I started to sense a change in his attitude towards me. Less romantic, no talk of the future. He was acting depressed, annoyed with me -- when I brought it up the first few times, we eventually broke up for 2 weeks. But after two weeks, he was back crying and asking to get back together. The around the 2 year mark, I started getting that feeling again and started snooping for clues that he was going to propose or at least that he was thinking seriously about us.. and instead discovered he had cheated on me with a coworker. We broke up again and I moved out but of course, within another 2 weeks he wanted to try again, promised he was in love with me and I was the one and that he'd do therapy and begged for me to at least try to date again.

 

Of course I gave in. Things were wonderful for 6 months, he was kind, open with his phone, constantly texting me, wanting to see me all the time, planning for our future and vacations again. We were having weekly "check-ins" about our feelings and over time, as I started to ask for commitment again, those turned from positive to more language from him like "I don't know" or "I'm not ready" or "I need to keep working on myself."

 

He has an alcoholic dad who cheated a lot, grew up in a family with a lot of trauma, so I've been trying to be patient since he exhibits so many of the intimacy and commitment issues that come with that. But eventually, I got to the point where I felt like a placeholder girlfriend and two weeks ago, I gave him an ultimatum, saying that after 2.5 years and everything we'd been through, he needed to at least be able to take a leap of faith with us. That I wanted kids and a family, and that at 30, I couldn't wait that much longer for him to decide what he wanted.

 

Of course, faced with the ultimatum, he said that he loved and adored me but he couldn't make that choice and that he saw no option but to break up. I got a little angry and he just said nothing as I vented about being strung along for so long. And I made the mistake of texting and emailing him a few days after that conversation saying that I was sorry for pushing him so hard and giving him no choice but to break up with me, but that i'd be willing to give him more time if he could just do a better job of communicating with me. I may have sent a few desperate texts i'm not proud of

 

Anyway, he finally texted me back after no response for a week and said that he had no regrets about ending things with me and that he couldn't give me the clarity I needed because he didn't have answers to all of my questions himself. I haven't responded since, but I am devastated. I know I should end it and move on since he's cheated, I've been so miserable, and keep going through this blowing hot and cold/push and pull with him. But I truly love and miss him so badly, I feel depressed and anxious all the time since he ended things with me.

 

So my question is... do commitment phobes like him come back? Can they change? I know I shouldn't even want him to, and from the sound of his last text, he's made it clear that he's done. But I am still holding on to some hope.

 

I am trying my best to stick to no contact (duh, shoulda done that all along), trying to workout and take care of myself, and hope that time will help me heal so I don't feel so desperately attached to him.

 

Just need some reassurance, guidance, any experiences with someone similar...

[Zahara]

Time to move on and completely let go. Forget about hope -- regardless of whether "phobes" come back -- this man has toyed with your emotions by doing the push and pull for all this time and even to the extent of cheating on you. What else does he need to do for you to say enough, pick up your self-respect and move on? Doesn't matter whether he is done, YOU should be done.

 

Stay NC -- block him from all contact because trust these rubberbanders will swing back again and drag you back into the same dysfunction. You've given him 3 to 4 chances and a blind eye to his cheating -- still not enough?

[Zapbasket]

I don't know whether or not commitment-phobes "come back" but I can say it won't do you any good to wait for it. Your whole relationship, you have been waiting for him. By continuing to wait, you're "continuing" the relationship, but without any of the benefits of actually being in a relationship or actually not being in one. I've been there and it's not an empowering place to be.

 

What I do know, or what I surmise, is that people with genuine intimacy fears due to trauma experienced in primary relationships will do anything they must to avoid having to face that fear--including losing the person they love. It's less frightening to them to actually cut out the source of the fear (in your case, you), than it is to face the fear and keep the relationship. The reason is because, by severing the relationship, they control the outcome, whereas by keeping the relationship and moving forward in it, they experience the same loss of control, and the same terrifying possibility of abandonment, that actually occurred in earlier years and that gave them the fear in the first place.

 

You're in an impossible position with someone like this because at a certain point, ANYTHING you do to be loving or care for the relationship is a threat in the other person's eyes. You're simultaneously the hot stove AND the force pushing their hands onto it. So if they break up with you, you just have to let them be.

 

It's not a guaranteed scenario, but often a commitment-phobic person will only manage a lasting and "successful" relationship with an equally commitment-phobic person. It "works" because then there is no proverbial hot stove, and no force, just two people floating in the same vacuum. And what usually happens with THAT, is that eventually one person begins to outgrow their commitment-phobia, or at least to want to outgrow it and to do something to address their issues. Once one person begins this journey, the other person must also be as willing to overcome his or her commitment-phobia, as well, or the relationship will become imbalanced, like yours was, and will have to end. And as with you, this is a GOOD THING for the partner who has begun to mature out of their commitment-phobia, because then s/he can seek a relationship that fulfills with its possibilities for ever-increasing intimacy and true partnership.

 

It sucks, I know. I'm sorry you're going through this.

[mightycpa]

Losing a person who can't/won't commit is kind of an oxymoron, isn't it?

[PursuitofPeace]

What I do know, or what I surmise, is that people with genuine intimacy fears due to trauma experienced in primary relationships will do anything they must to avoid having to face that fear--including losing the person they love. It's less frightening to them to actually cut out the source of the fear (in your case, you), than it is to face the fear and keep the relationship. The reason is because, by severing the relationship, they control the outcome, whereas by keeping the relationship and moving forward in it, they experience the same loss of control, and the same terrifying possibility of abandonment, that actually occurred in earlier years and that gave them the fear in the first place.

 

You're in an impossible position with someone like this because at a certain point, ANYTHING you do to be loving or care for the relationship is a threat in the other person's eyes.

 

I know this is right...part of my healing has to be understanding why he constantly feels the need to push me away and accepting that he's not going to overcome that behavior for me. Thanks for the advice and insight.

[Zapbasket]

Losing a person who can't/won't commit is kind of an oxymoron, isn't it?

 

Except that what you're also losing is the POSSIBILITY that the person who won't / can't commit will, at last, commit. Sometimes the possibility of commitment that heretofore has always been just out of reach, is more alluring than if the commitment were offered on a silver platter.

[Zapbasket]

I know this is right...part of my healing has to be understanding why he constantly feels the need to push me away and accepting that he's not going to overcome that behavior for me. Thanks for the advice and insight.

 

Once that push/pull thing starts, the only way anything could ever happen is if he loses you. This is good for YOU on its own, so that you can heal and move on to a healthier relationship, because the likelihood is that the one being "pushed" will only feel relief at first, because the pressure is gone and with it, the fear.

[mightycpa]

Except that what you're also losing is the POSSIBILITY that the person who won't / can't commit will, at last, commit. Sometimes the possibility of commitment that heretofore has always been just out of reach, is more alluring than if the commitment were offered on a silver platter.

 

Her: Thar's gold in them-thar hills!

Him: No there isn't.

 

So what was really lost was the illusion. Said in the negative, it was reality slapping her in the face.

 

I think what happens to some guys is that they get comfortable, and they don't like the dating scene. So banging the same-old, same-old while avoiding the eventually unavoidable meaning of this path for the future is preferable to dealing with their dissatisfaction head on and going out there and finding someone else. The woman hopes against hope, and hangs in there while the sands of time sift through the hourglass. They both get desperate, but in opposite directions. Pressure comes to bear, and the relationship breaks, often years after it should have.

 

If the exact same thing had happened with a guy that enjoys the freedom of dating and pursuing women he doesn't know, she'd have been broken up with instead of cheated on with a co-worker. I think it's that simple.

[Zapbasket]

Her: Thar's gold in them-thar hills!

Him: No there isn't.

 

So what was really lost was the illusion. Said in the negative, it was reality slapping her in the face.

 

I think what happens to some guys is that they get comfortable, and they don't like the dating scene. So banging the same-old, same-old while avoiding the eventually unavoidable meaning of this path for the future is preferable to dealing with their dissatisfaction head on and going out there and finding someone else. The woman hopes against hope, and hangs in there while the sands of time sift through the hourglass. They both get desperate, but in opposite directions. Pressure comes to bear, and the relationship breaks, often years after it should have.

 

If the exact same thing had happened with a guy that enjoys the freedom of dating and pursuing women he doesn't know, she'd have been broken up with instead of cheated on with a co-worker. I think it's that simple.

 

I'm not sure it IS that simple. It seems you're talking about guys who aren't ready for commitment for whatever reason, versus guys who are true commitment-phobes--i.e., guys (or women, too) who have a debilitating fear of intimacy. I say I don't think it's that simple, because for these latter kinds of guys, I think they're quite tormented inside: on the one hand, they DO want the comfort of intimacy and being known and knowing another intimately in a relationship, but they end up sabotaging the thing they most want out of fear. Huge, huge amounts of fear. They recognize on some level that they're getting in their own way, but they're not ready to face that truth--again: fear. So they "blame" it on the person they're with, saying she's too much THIS and not enough THAT and that's why he can't commit. On some level he knows this is bullsh*t, but by placing the responsibility onto his partner, he doesn't have to go through the agony of facing his fears (which are mostly deep, deep fears of abandonment and vulnerability). So he takes it all the way to a breakup, and while on the one hand, he's super-relieved to be rid of all that pressure to face himself and his fears, on the other hand...he didn't face himself and his fears. That causes a pretty low feeling, in the same way that you feel unfulfilled when all your friends in grade school dared to do a flip off the high dive and you chickened out.

 

I think this is why a lot of commitment-phobic guys breakup over text or the phone or just by ghosting. They don't want to have to face the fact that they didn't face their fears. They just want to skulk off into the sunset, remaining developmentally arrested and yet hating it at the same time.

 

Do you agree?

 

Whereas someone who is just not wanting to commit but doesn't want to date, either, they stay in a relationship for its comforts and don't feel a whole lot of conflict about it until the drawbacks (fighting, etc.) outweigh the benefits and they have no trouble bailing. I think these guys, and guys who don't want to commit and enjoy dating, don't drag relationships on and on and on because it's too uncomfortable for them and they're just focused on enjoying themselves.

[mightycpa]

I agree that there are people like that, truly phobic, but I don't get the sense that's this guy. I get the sense that his interest waned. I think he was satisfied, but not enough to tie himself down, and when faced with an ultimatum, he made the only decision he could live with.

 

I think that commitment-phobes are quite devoted until you ask them to commit to a future. That's when they get skittish.

[Itspointless]

I know this is right...part of my healing has to be understanding why he constantly feels the need to push me away and accepting that he's not going to overcome that behavior for me. Thanks for the advice and insight.

If you want to understand search in the search-box here on dismissive-avoidant. There are excellent books on the topic or videos on youtube I linked to often in posts.

[PursuitofPeace]

Thanks for the replies.... I did look up dismissive avoidants and a lot of the behavior matches his over time, but I do think he craves emotional intimacy and operates in fear. We did move in together and he did pursue commitment, but once the chase period was over and I started asking for marriage, that's when I felt the flip. But I guess one of the things that kept me even more confused is how much he tried to make it work even after I discovered and affair, kept bringing up my need for commitment, etc. After one such conversation we fought and didn't speak for a day but he came back saying that he was 33, dated a lot and knew that I was a great partner and the person he could be with long term, and that he wanted to push through and make it work.

 

He did go to therapy a few times after that and occasionally he would journal and talk to me about his barriers to love and inability sometimes to understand his own behavior. He would cry in frustration sometimes. He would also frequently thank me for being patient with him and tell me I was being strong and wonderful while he tried improve himself.

 

While I am not blaming myself, I guess there is some feeling and doubt that maybe he was growing to overcome those commitment fears and working on things himself and that my needs didn't match up with what he could offer during this time, even if he did have real love for me. I did give him the ultimatum and I knew I had to for my own sanity, I felt like I couldn't give any more time... But now this emotional loss is making me feel so terrible and have so much regret.

 

I do think no contact and moving on is best (and is my only choice now) just trying to grasp at an understanding. Thanks for your support and advice.

Edited April 20, 2016 by PursuitofPeace

[Itspointless]

Thanks for the replies.... I did look up dismissive avoidants and a lot of the behavior matches his over time, but I do think he craves emotional intimacy and operates in fear.

My apologies for the very short reply yesterday. It felt abundant to write again what I sometimes have written better before, which was kind of lazy of me.

 

You know dismissive avoidants often think that they want emotional intimacy. Their fear often is unconscious. And as with everything with people, some have it only a tiny but and some have it in a severe way. It was positive that he went to therapy, but you were right. At some point you have to ask for some commitment, otherwise you always will be stuck in a very reactive relationship where he controls what happens and does not happen.

 

You are still young. I know it does not feel like it right now, but there are other good man out there who are willing to commit without making it hard for both. It is sad that it has to go this way, but you cannot fix him, only he can, but it does take a lot of therapeutic work. It is very likely that he always will be running when stressed.

 

I can tell you from personal experience that you will feel better at some point.

[katiegrl]

I find it amazing how easily and how often "dismissive-avoidants" or "commitment-phobes" or however we wish to label guys like him.... are able to CRY.

 

It is uncanny.

 

Whenever I read or hear about a man like this, there is, in literally every case, CRYING involved.

 

Usually when they are breaking up, and then when they are wanting to come back.

 

If the woman takes him back, it's rinse and repeat. Often times many times over ....for years in many cases!

 

Yeah these guys struggle with some real demons lemmetellya.

 

ETA: Women can be CP/dismissive-avoidant as well, but interestingly, they don't cry as much. Go figure.

Edited April 20, 2016 by katiegrl

[PursuitofPeace]

I know, and damn am I just a sucker for the tears! It's so hard to look someone who seems to sad and vulnerable in the eyes and not believe that they love you and want to be with you... only to find a few weeks or months later that they can just end it without a tear.

[Itspointless]

ETA: Women can be CP/dismissive-avoidant as well, but interestingly, they don't cry as much. Go figure.

I know, and damn am I just a sucker for the tears! It's so hard to look someone who seems to sad and vulnerable in the eyes

Interesting, did not know this, as my ex wasn't a man. She was rational and emotionally void as a Vulcan when she talked with me. I was so happy that I almost made her break at one point. It made me realize how she had pushed everything out of side. Seeing the other having emotions helps, believe me on that one.

[katiegrl]

I know, and damn am I just a sucker for the tears! It's so hard to look someone who seems to sad and vulnerable in the eyes and not believe that they love you and want to be with you... only to find a few weeks or months later that they can just end it without a tear.

 

Many of them cry when breaking up too.... probably from guilt, especially if it keeps happening. But then there is a lot of fading and ghosting too.

 

But agree it happens mostly when they want to come back. I think it is a form of manipulation myself.... but who knows, the tears could be genuine.

 

I just find it all quite fascinating ....

[PursuitofPeace]

Itspointless, I read this about dismissive avoidants and describes him to a tee. And lots of other things resonate in his behaviors as well. "In dating, avoidants can be charming and have learned all the social graces—they often know how they are expected to act in courtship and can play the role well for a time. But lacking a positive view of attached others, they expect relationships to fulfill a romantic ideal which no real human being can create for them, so all fall short and are discarded when it becomes inconvenient to continue."

 

My ex only cried when coming back. During breakups, he did look a little emotional but the attitude and body language was usually just "I'm done, I'm tired of this."

[Itspointless]

Itspointless, I read this about dismissive avoidants and describes him to a tee. And lots of other things resonate in his behaviors as well. "In dating, avoidants can be charming and have learned all the social graces—they often know how they are expected to act in courtship and can play the role well for a time. But lacking a positive view of attached others, they expect relationships to fulfill a romantic ideal which no real human being can create for them, so all fall short and are discarded when it becomes inconvenient to continue."

 

My ex only cried when coming back. During breakups, he did look a little emotional but the attitude and body language was usually just "I'm done, I'm tired of this."

Hi PursuitofPeace, than you probably also will found answers in this video of Mirel Goldstein a therapist on how to recognize dismissive attachment behaviours:

[Zapbasket]

Itspointless, I read this about dismissive avoidants and describes him to a tee. And lots of other things resonate in his behaviors as well. "In dating, avoidants can be charming and have learned all the social graces—they often know how they are expected to act in courtship and can play the role well for a time. But lacking a positive view of attached others, they expect relationships to fulfill a romantic ideal which no real human being can create for them, so all fall short and are discarded when it becomes inconvenient to continue."

 

My ex only cried when coming back. During breakups, he did look a little emotional but the attitude and body language was usually just "I'm done, I'm tired of this."

 

This has been my experience, as well. It really hurts, and feels so hard to believe.

[PursuitofPeace]

I know it's only been 4 days since my post and 6 days since I officially had no contact and just over two weeks since our breakup, but I did go to see a great therapist this week and feel stronger and better every day. There are some things I am starting to come to terms with...

 

Even though none of this was my fault, my therapist encouraged me to not get hung up on why he did everything he did but to focus on my role to grow and move forward. She did help me empathize a little bit around the way he was feeling and the way fear/pressure makes people like my ex act. She did remind me that the initial feelings after our break up may have felt excruciating and unbearable to me, but to him, he probably felt more relief because of all of my recent pushing/need for commitment and security.

 

I guess after talking to her, I feel less regret about giving my ultimatum to my ex and pushing him when he "might have been making some progress and trying to stick it out", because that came from my absolute basic needs in the relationship. I was feeling insecure and needed more from him emotionally/functionally precisely because we had broken up so many times and because he cheated. And he was still trying to figure out why he was withdrawing emotionally, finding flaws etc. so there was no way he could give that level of security to me... he said as much well before our breakup.

 

Anyway, I do worry a little about passing the anger stage in to the accepting/understanding what happened stage because -- in the off chance that he does contact me -- i do worry about my resolve (I've always been overly empathetic, to the point where I tend to sacrifice a bit too much, but I'm working on setting up those boundaries!). This is all very hard, but I feel some stability returning to my crazy emotions... have my appetite back... been working out... just trying to get as strong and secure as possible for now...

[rita123]

 

So my question is... do commitment phobes like him come back? Can they change? I know I shouldn't even want him to, and from the sound of his last text, he's made it clear that he's done. But I am still holding on to some hope.

 

Just need some reassurance, guidance, any experiences with someone similar...

 

I'm so sorry to hear about what you are going through. I know it sucks, as I'm dealing with my own commitment-phobic breakup as well. Check out my thread "Crazy stupid.... commitmentphobia"

 

In my experience, they do come back! And I honestly believe that they can change. My ex was eager to change, at least. But I also have to accept that his fears are bigger than me (also coming from his childhood; his dad left them when he was a baby, his mother is a serial dater so he grew up having lots of temporary dads). But now I see that he has to work on those issues when I'm not around... and the work can take years of commitment to addressing those issues. Do you want to sit around for years, holding on to that tiny glimpse of hope? I sure don't.

 

Asking a commitmentphobe to change for the sake of your relationship is like asking an arachnophobic person to get a pet spider. It is an impossible situation for both parties involved.

 

I want to think that our love was real though. After I healed (it is going very fast).. I know I will be able to look at it as the "right girl, wrong time" kindof thing. I hope you can do the same too one day

Edited April 22, 2016 by rita123

[Itspointless]

I know it's only been 4 days since my post and 6 days since I officially had no contact and just over two weeks since our breakup, but I did go to see a great therapist this week and feel stronger and better every day. There are some things I am starting to come to terms with... [...] I tend to sacrifice a bit too much, but I'm working on setting up those boundaries!

I see your therapist is well educated about attachment as you seem to be anxious attached according to what your therapist told you. Try to use the knowledge you learn right know to learn to recognize it when you fall into that behavior. It is behavior that stems from fear: like clinging or ruminating over and over. Our brains are wired like this, but we can learn to change those behaviors by becoming reflective about it.

[PursuitofPeace]

Yes, itspointless, trying to digest how my own attachment style played in to our dynamic. I, of course, want always to believe that I've done everything the "normal" way" and WOULD have had a healthy attachment style if he didn't make me insecure/anxious but it's not necessarily so

[Itspointless]

Yes, itspointless, trying to digest how my own attachment style played in to our dynamic. I, of course, want always to believe that I've done everything the "normal" way" and WOULD have had a healthy attachment style if he didn't make me insecure/anxious but it's not necessarily so

If it is any consolation. I am a bit anxious attached too and my ex girlfriend was ..., well you guessed it.

 

You know in a way it is normal what we do, we repeat the schemes that worked best in our childhood to survive. But there are others ways that eventually can make us happier and feel more balanced and calm. Others learn this just by doing what their parents did. Some people have to do a lot more effort to reach that calmness within. But if we do, we can really (!) be proud of ourselves.