It hurts, but it's okay

[lilacwine]

Doing great, over here, and feeling so so so happy to have this A in the past. I get angry still, but I notice less and less. Thought I'd be transparent with all of you, though, as to my transgression.

 

xMM has been trying to contact me consistently, through work means, by sending cheap little emails. I am returning the work phone/laptop next week, and they are severing my work accounts, which is great.

 

On Monday morning I received another email from him, this one saying, "Just wanted to say hi. Hope you are well." I ignored the 3 previous "just wanted to say hi" messages but this time I was just so pissed off and tired of his bull$hit attempts to stay "friends" that I responded. (Let me have it, Privategal!!) Here is what I wrote:

 

"I notice that these emails arrive during the times that you are away from home and it's safe for you. I am still some dirty little secret and that is no longer acceptable to me. I'm worth a lot more than that."

 

Of course, no response and I don't expect to hear from him again. He is conflict-avoidant to the nth degree and a slap on the wrist like this will send him running for the hills. Hooray!

 

We talk a lot about no contact, and I think that is the absolute right choice for many, or even most, of us OW. For me, I think it was becoming more damaging to hold anger inside so I let off this little bit of steam. Felt good to do it and to send a clear message. I have absolutely no desire to see him again or interact with him. Moving on.

 

Good job Grapes!!! Keep updating us with posts like this. Don't worry about "breaking NC". I think it doesn't matter NC or not NC, as long as in your heart you're determined you're DONE with him, that's what matters. Nothing he can say or do will reel you back. NC is just a way to help you get past the affair. Once you've succeeded beautifully like you have, you can forget about NC. Very happy for you.

[Grapesofwrath]

I actually disagree with NC across the board at all times. If you have something to say that you absolutely need to get off your chest or to feel vindicated, then do it! People say the problem with that is it gives the person power, it opens a can of worms, it lets them know they still take space in your head, blahblah.

 

Show your empowered, show the same bull****** will no longer work. I think you have the resolve to stick to your guns, Grapes, so you know what is best.

 

Once the work contacts are severed, does he have any other way to reach you?

 

Thanks, Ms. Faust. I agree with you re: NC. I think it's needed in some cases, but for me it's never felt exactly right.

 

To answer, once the work contacts are severed, that really cuts it. I have blocked his personal cell and email on my personal devices. We were never linked through any social media. The only thing that he could possibly do is come by my house, but I don't think he's going to do anything like that. He is much too conflict-avoidant.

[13Hearts]

Hi Grapes. Glad you are feeling better. Sorry you were feeling badly. I understand where you are. I'm there, too. Same age, late 40s. Still look good, independent, financially secure, tho I don't have children (on purpose). I've wanted a good relationship, too, and honestly believed everything xMM told me, and believed we had what I wanted. I know now that it was a lie. A really long, convincing lie. I wanted to believe, so I did. We just worked so well together. Except for the parts where we didn't.

 

I've been in a lot of relationships. And I've come to the objective conclusion that men are not capable of having truly interdependent relationships with women. I'm no psychologist but I believe they stop maturing emotionally at a very young age and they can never catch up to us. And therein lies the problem. I don't like being in relationships because I am always the loyal, caring, giving, emotionally mature one, and he (all of them) is not. He is always too selfish and self-centered, and a burden. Add to that that he does not listen, and does not respect my wishes or preferences. In fact, he ignores them. And yes, again, "he" is all of them.

 

In the beginning of every relationship he is not that way. He is the opposite. And in affairs, he is not that way either. But when you enter into something committed with him, that all changes. I don't know why but it ALWAYS does.

 

So, for these reasons, relationships are just not satisfying, or fun, for me. They take a lot of time and energy, they always have to be focused on HIS desires and HIS needs, and mine fall by the wayside. Even to need the person you are with to be faithful and true cannot be met. So to me, it is not worth trying anymore. I don't think I will ever find a relationship that will work for me. And I'm all right with that. I'm not lonely; I go out with people I like to be with. I spend time with my family. I am successful at work. I have a nice home. And I am happy with myself.

 

I just do not believe you can have that emotional connection with a man and have it last. It's a pipe dream.

 

Sorry if my words are not uplifting. I just wanted to share with you because we are in similar places and I think you will understand me.

[lilacwine]

Hi Grapes. Glad you are feeling better. Sorry you were feeling badly. I understand where you are. I'm there, too. Same age, late 40s. Still look good, independent, financially secure, tho I don't have children (on purpose). I've wanted a good relationship, too, and honestly believed everything xMM told me, and believed we had what I wanted. I know now that it was a lie. A really long, convincing lie. I wanted to believe, so I did. We just worked so well together. Except for the parts where we didn't.

 

I've been in a lot of relationships. And I've come to the objective conclusion that men are not capable of having truly interdependent relationships with women. I'm no psychologist but I believe they stop maturing emotionally at a very young age and they can never catch up to us. And therein lies the problem. I don't like being in relationships because I am always the loyal, caring, giving, emotionally mature one, and he (all of them) is not. He is always too selfish and self-centered, and a burden. Add to that that he does not listen, and does not respect my wishes or preferences. In fact, he ignores them. And yes, again, "he" is all of them.

 

In the beginning of every relationship he is not that way. He is the opposite. And in affairs, he is not that way either. But when you enter into something committed with him, that all changes. I don't know why but it ALWAYS does.

 

So, for these reasons, relationships are just not satisfying, or fun, for me. They take a lot of time and energy, they always have to be focused on HIS desires and HIS needs, and mine fall by the wayside. Even to need the person you are with to be faithful and true cannot be met. So to me, it is not worth trying anymore. I don't think I will ever find a relationship that will work for me. And I'm all right with that. I'm not lonely; I go out with people I like to be with. I spend time with my family. I am successful at work. I have a nice home. And I am happy with myself.

 

I just do not believe you can have that emotional connection with a man and have it last. It's a pipe dream.

 

Sorry if my words are not uplifting. I just wanted to share with you because we are in similar places and I think you will understand me.

 

Wow, we may have different journeys but I think we've come to the same conclusions. And I'm in my late 30s. I don't know whether I should be sad or not about those "not so uplifting" words. To me now, after having been through all kind of relationship hells including an affair, they are in a way kind of liberating. You don't need a relationship to be happy. You need to find a way to be happy on your own. A relationship with an emotionally immature man (which like you said, applied to all men out there) is not the answer.

[Grapesofwrath]

In the US, yesterday was Mother's Day. I had a joyful day with my children, feeling loved and appreciated. They made my breakfast. We went for a hike and had a picnic, then snuggled up to watch sports on TV (my favorite!!)

 

Last year on Mother's Day, I spent about an hour lying on my bed, sobbing. I was deep in the throes of my A, and felt so much pain at the thought of xMM spending Mother's Day with his family while I was facing the reality of being a single mom on Mother's Day. No flowers. No brunch. The cognitive dissonance of having a man be "so in love" with me, and yet being abandoned on this day with only a brief text from him to keep me company. I was deep in a pit of sorrow about the A along with all the other ways I felt my life did not measure up to the things I was seeing on Facebook. (that's a whole other post. Fakebook.)

 

This year, out of the A, I feel like a different person. Empowered. Free. Accomplished. I have moved to a new home. Changed jobs. Broadened my network of female friends. Started a meditation practice. Improved my physical fitness. I no longer have this affair millstone hanging around my neck.

 

It's hard to do, quitting the A. But it can be done. It must be done. Like quitting smoking. It's hard. But it's not impossible. Some things in life are hard. Doesn't mean you don't do them.

[Bufo]

Grapes listen up. You aren't old but now have the advantage of not having to worry about whether some future partner will accept the responsibilities of fatherhood. And you'll know whether he is able to responsibly make a living.

That's two big issues you won't have compared to your younger sisters.

 

Leaving you to focus more on the two issues of will he be kind and supportive or selfish and mean. And how much you are physically and emotionally attracted to him.

 

There are many winners and losers out there. You can and should be picky.

You have been around the block enough to be able to reject the "any relationship is better than no relationship" mentality that seems to plague many of the younger women who post here. You know you aren't going to be someone's part time woman or Plan B.

 

Maybe the right guy isn't an Alpha type. Don't reject the Betas. Just live your life and keep your eyes and heart open. Let friends know you are available. I think I've posted the story of my wife and me before. We met after she quit being an OW to a MM in a fairly long term A. Now I'm no great prize, but I mention this to verify that it can and does happen.

 

I guess I've lectured enough for now.

[Iaminnocentgul]

You have inspired me (to come out of A and bear the pain and move on) ! Thanks a ton! Hugs! <3

[Grapesofwrath]

Grapes listen up. You aren't old but now have the advantage of not having to worry about whether some future partner will accept the responsibilities of fatherhood. And you'll know whether he is able to responsibly make a living.

That's two big issues you won't have compared to your younger sisters.

 

Leaving you to focus more on the two issues of will he be kind and supportive or selfish and mean. And how much you are physically and emotionally attracted to him.

 

There are many winners and losers out there. You can and should be picky.

You have been around the block enough to be able to reject the "any relationship is better than no relationship" mentality that seems to plague many of the younger women who post here. You know you aren't going to be someone's part time woman or Plan B.

 

Maybe the right guy isn't an Alpha type. Don't reject the Betas. Just live your life and keep your eyes and heart open. Let friends know you are available. I think I've posted the story of my wife and me before. We met after she quit being an OW to a MM in a fairly long term A. Now I'm no great prize, but I mention this to verify that it can and does happen.

 

I guess I've lectured enough for now.

 

Thanks, Bufo. If this is you lecturing, I'll sign up for a whole semester full!

 

Question: What do you mean by a Beta man?

[Bufo]

Think sled dogs. The alpha dog is the leader. The rest are betas or more of the follower type who do their work quietly and efficiently.

 

There are too many electrons and bandwidth on the internet devoted to Alpha versus Beta for me to explain it much more succinctly than that. But in general younger women tend to seek the Alpha for romance. They don't seem to realize that every other young woman is pursuing the same for fun and romance. Thus giving Alpha a whole smorgasbord of potential long or short term partners. Habitual cheaters tend to be the Alpha type. In short you can trust the Beta type more easily. He might not always cause your toes to tingle but you probably won't always be wondering who he is with when he isn't with you.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Bufo
Typo

[BuddyX]

Think sled dogs. The alpha dog is the leader. The rest are betas or more of the follower type who do their work quietly and efficiently.

 

There are too many electrons and bandwidth on the internet devoted to Alpha versus Beta for me to explain it much more succinctly than that. But in general younger women tend to seek the Alpha for romance. They don't seem to realize that every other young woman is pursuing the same for fun and romance. Thus giving Alpha a whole smorgasbord of potential long or short term partners. Habitual cheaters tend to be the Alpha type. In short you can trust the Beta type more easily. He might not always cause your toes to tingle but you probably won't always be wondering who he is with when he isn't with you.

 

Agree.

You're looking for a balance between Alpha and beta. A man that will give you independence but will step in when a another guy is overstepping his boundaries and get in your panties.

[66Charger]

This is so far from truth, I had to write. What most men consider alpha, is not the player type. The real Alpha goes to work. Provides, professes and protects. Doesn't have a problem with a strong woman, because he is strong himself. The one sin he is usually guilty of is not giving enough validation. Why? Because in his mind he has a thousand things to do. I can use this side of the forum as proof. When I read about your mms, I never read a alpha. These guys cant make up their minds and are always crying about something. Look at the reaction of the OW when the fog is lifted. What do you now see? A strong man who leads his family? Confident and secure in himself? Or do you see the true colors of the insecure, the weak, the unworhy. I dont haven to offer my opinion, all I have to do is read what you women write.

 

In my opinion, the hardest thing a OW has to do is not just putting down the rose colored glasses, but putting down the green (jaded) ones also.

 

In almost every story a OW writes, there is another guy. Usually a good single guy. Eventually he leaves because you could not see him. The OW has so much passion and love, unfortunately for the wrong guy. Your problem is not the guy, but your boundaries. Instead of being jaded, bottle all of that up and just save it for the worthy. Take your time, get out of the twisted mindset. Become a little flower growing in the sunshine, refusing to get trampled on.

 

You attract who you are. Positive attracts positive and negative attracts negative. Positive can be alpha or beta, but never charlie.

 

Fyi, a charlie is a fake alpha, otherwise known as a MM.

Edited May 10, 2016 by 66Charger

[Grapesofwrath]

Think sled dogs. The alpha dog is the leader. The rest are betas or more of the follower type who do their work quietly and efficiently.

 

There are too many electrons and bandwidth on the internet devoted to Alpha versus Beta for me to explain it much more succinctly than that. But in general younger women tend to seek the Alpha for romance. They don't seem to realize that every other young woman is pursuing the same for fun and romance. Thus giving Alpha a whole smorgasbord of potential long or short term partners. Habitual cheaters tend to be the Alpha type. In short you can trust the Beta type more easily. He might not always cause your toes to tingle but you probably won't always be wondering who he is with when he isn't with you.

 

Bufo: I think I understand where you're coming from on this. In my case, however, I married a beta for precisely this reason. A beta who believed he was an alpha, but was maybe more of a charlie? In any case, I thought he would make a good choice because he seemed like a solid, hard-working guy that I could trust.

 

He was never unfaithful sexually, of that I am certain. But he was financially a disaster and bankrupted us with his misguided business ventures and stubborn refusal to listen to reason. He took out a second mortgage on our home without my knowledge. While I was sleep-deprived from caring for our newborn second child, he would ask me to sign forms without explaining what they were. I trusted him and signed. He was my husband! Why would he do something that is not in my best interest?

 

During my marriage, I never received a birthday, Christmas, anniversary, or mother's day gift or card. He was always too "busy" or cash-strapped to address holidays like this. If I wanted something, I bought it for myself with the money I earned. That's right. I bought my own anniversary gifts. (Different story while we were dating, by the way.)

 

He "worked" 7 days a week at his "office." Near as I can tell, this was a rented space designed to make my earnings disappear and drive us further and further into debt. I abandoned my career for 2 years to help him work in this business in an effort to make it profitable. During those 2 years, we saw a profit. As soon as I left to take a salaried position in order to create security for our family, it tanked and the real trouble began.

 

Sorry for the rant. All this to say, I don't think I want a beta either. IME, he was weak and did not provide or protect, though he had a lot of professing to do.

 

I think 66Charger is right that I have put down my rose-colored glasses and need to put down the green ones, too. I'll just do me and keep and open mind and heart. I like that approach.

[Bufo]

Not looking for a fight, but......you did hit the nail on the head. Working for someone else is a thing he would not accept despite irrefutable financial proof to the contrary. Being your own man is an Alpha trait. He wasn't a traditional Alpha who basks in the attention of others, male and female. You drew the short stick and found an Alpha wannabe. A Charlie. In his own personal limbo. He must have been a deeply unhappy man.

[doble]

What Charger so ably wrote can be applied to "Cindy" too. The MW is as guilty as the MM.

The infidelity, divorce, and this forum has thousands of examples.

All the glasses need to be discarded, rose, green, yellow, whatever is blinding them.

 

The OM/OW need to remove the rose, and green. Charlie, and Cindy the MM, MW need to take off there's, the yellow as they are cowards.

[Grapesofwrath]

Not looking for a fight, but......you did hit the nail on the head. Working for someone else is a thing he would not accept despite irrefutable financial proof to the contrary. Being your own man is an Alpha trait. He wasn't a traditional Alpha who basks in the attention of others, male and female. You drew the short stick and found an Alpha wannabe. A Charlie. In his own personal limbo. He must have been a deeply unhappy man.

 

Thank you, Bufo. No fights over here either.

 

He was and is an unhappy guy. Unfortunately, he is smart enough to know what an alpha is and to want to be an alpha, but too stubborn and entitled to accept that he just isn't that guy.

 

Sigh. Not my problem anymore. I paid him all the alimony he was due, and am free now from that entanglement. We are good co-parents to two boys that we adore, and I will be forever grateful to him for that.

[66Charger]

Dont sell your self short. Because you think you are not a "great looking guy" or a leader of the pack, does not make you, not a prize or a beta. By your words you handle your business. I have a few freinds who are the geeky type. But when we sit down to a game of poker, with guys and gals, they can be just as rutheless. Untwist your mirror. A "good guy" is always alpha and beta, in some ways.

 

BTW alpha gets tiring. You always feel you have to hold up the world. Its good to have a strong woman who you can pass the Planet to, and say "hold this for a minute.

Edited May 10, 2016 by 66Charger

[Bufo]

Well a few more days have passed. How are you doing? I'm not expecting that you feel great but have you been able to stay the course?

[Grapesofwrath]

Well a few more days have passed. How are you doing? I'm not expecting that you feel great but have you been able to stay the course?

 

Oh, yes! Rock solid over here! No temptation to reach out to him, at all. And I returned my work devices last week, so there is no way for him to get in touch with me, either. I feel so much clearer, lighter, and happier with him out of my life. I didn't realize what I was losing in that A until I got out of it.

 

Thank you for checking on me, Bufo. Very thoughtful of you.

[Bufo]

Don't disappear. There are, unfortunately, more than a few posters who despair of ever recovering from an ongoing or terminated A. You, simply by telling your story, can provide some hope and assistance to those people. You weren't thrilled to do what you did, but you did what you had to do. You got out of infidelity with your head held high. Maybe others will be able to follow.

 

That's why I'm suggesting you may want to stick around and post from time to time....

[Grapesofwrath]

Don't disappear. There are, unfortunately, more than a few posters who despair of ever recovering from an ongoing or terminated A. You, simply by telling your story, can provide some hope and assistance to those people. You weren't thrilled to do what you did, but you did what you had to do. You got out of infidelity with your head held high. Maybe others will be able to follow.

 

That's why I'm suggesting you may want to stick around and post from time to time....

 

Thank you for that, very much. I've been all over these boards the past few days and hopefully I'm adding some value.

 

If I do decide to take a break, it's likely because being on these boards necessarily involves me thinking about the A, and sometimes I just don't want to focus on that. Trying more and more each day to put my attention toward my beautiful future.

[13Hearts]

Same with me, Grapes. Coming here reminds me of xMM and often makes me feel disgruntled. I am trying to keep busy focusing on me and what I need to do. I still speak with xMM, and sometimes we text, but no where near what it used to be like, thank God. My heart hasn't been in it for a very long time so I've no fear of falling back into that mess. I just maintain what I've always maintained, and that is that I do not want to be romantically or sexually or emotionally involved with a MM. It's just not my thing. xMM and I have been friends well on 30 years, so I just talk to him the same way I always used to.

 

I know that for his part he likely needs to maintain some semblance of friendship with me because otherwise his own self image would come crashing down to planet Earth. I don't care though, because that's just not my problem. But anyway, I've given up the idea that there is any guy who is going to be as loyal as I am in a relationship. And I don't think you can easily categorize men as one type or another such as alpha, beta, etc. Men are human beings, imperfect, and subject to change. People are just too unpredictable to rely on wholeheartedly, if you ask me.

Edited May 13, 2016 by 13Hearts

[Bufo]

The weekend is winding down. Are you winding down? I've been busy chastising others, so now it's your turn.

[Grapesofwrath]

Weekend winding down yesterday, Bufo? I am just home from a super fun Sunday with friends. Gorgeous sunshine today, walking the city, going to various BBQs and parties. Was even asked for my phone number by a potential suitor. Single!! Imagine that!!

[Bufo]

We seniors like to get an early start on everything. Ever seen how many early bird specials the Florida restaurants run? Same thing with days if the week.

We old people need to recuperate from our wild Friday nights when we sometimes don't get home until after 9:00 pm.

 

Do you know why we are like that, Grapes? We are tired because we never get a day off from being retired!

 

Glad you had a good weekend. Stay strong!

Edited May 19, 2016 by Bufo

[66Charger]

Yesterday and today

 

I am 49 years old. A successful professional, self-supporting, raising two fantastic children. I have many friends, interests, and sources of joy.

 

I am still beautiful

 

and am in excellent health. Maybe I will never have a partner for myself. Maybe I will never be in love again. I have to get comfortable with that possibility. It's okay. .

 

If this comes to pass, a lot of guys will be missing out.