MM supposed to leave and move in this week... I'm anxious and uncertain

[Gemlove]

I'm really sorry for how you're feeling. I can definitely empathize.

 

To the bold: this isn't a good sign. In my own A, I was the realistic one and he wasn't. He would often literally make these plans like, for example, me coming to live at his house or all kinds of things that made NO SENSE . And when I tried to hit him with reality he got upset and annoyed with me. Now, I realize that the fantasy of our relationship was far more enjoyable than the regular reality of it. Reality was hard and not fun so when I actually tried to concretize his daydreams, instead of him joining me with a real plan, he simply got upset or brushed it off. That's not the sign of a man interested in real plans, that's one who doesn't want his bubble burst. So I'd really be careful of that.

 

Have you tried therapy? For me, I've found having another party to talk to about my feelings, my relationship patterns, loneliness etc helped a lot with shedding light on things and helping me to make sense of things.

 

I totally get just needing someone there. It's not wrong to feel that way, but sometimes feeling that way makes you settle for much less than you deserve. I don't know how you dealt with the abortion and all, how has MM responded to that? In any event, it just looks to me anyway, that there is so much fear, hurt, and uncertainty involved in this relationship and I'd have to ask myself if it is REALLY worth it? No one says you should look for fairytales, but I realize having a man who you can implicitly trust, rely on, be true partners and equals with, who loves you OPENLY and honestly, and will be glad to have a baby with you is not an unrealistic dream...it's perfectly normal and happens daily....it's certainly no less realistic than trying to patch together a life with a MM where you dunno heads from tails and who is actively avoiding reality.

 

That's exactly it. I begin the conversation of - where do we go from here and how to we make this as painless as possible for all involved? And it's just "I don't want to talk about that now."

 

I have not done therapy - I guess I fear judgement. Which is why I came here - and of course, the first few replies killed me. But everyone else has talked the same sense I talk into myself.

 

My brain tells me it's over, my heart is still hopeful. I'll give him to the end of the week and move on from there. I will have to come up with some grand story to tell my friends and family what happened, because they do not know he is married.

[txgrl]

Any relationship that gives you so much anxiety , frustration and insecurity right at the beginning , will usually NOT work out . We ignore our gut feeling about red flags and then they come back to haunt us later .

 

I'm afraid this does not look good for you at all , jut the way it started , the way he is wishy washy about moving in with you , the fact that he has a long term marriage with three kids .

Wayward say many things in the heat of the moment and then donot follow through . I didn't leave my marriage for OM despite telling him I will and even making plans to .

[MissBee]

That's exactly it. I begin the conversation of - where do we go from here and how to we make this as painless as possible for all involved? And it's just "I don't want to talk about that now."

 

I have not done therapy - I guess I fear judgement. Which is why I came here - and of course, the first few replies killed me. But everyone else has talked the same sense I talk into myself.

 

My brain tells me it's over, my heart is still hopeful. I'll give him to the end of the week and move on from there. I will have to come up with some grand story to tell my friends and family what happened, because they do not know he is married.

 

A good and professional therapist isn't there to judge their client. They are there to help you no matter what messed up thing you tell them, and trust me, many of them have heard it all and heard worse. I don't think you'll regret it. LS is useful, no doubt, but people here aren't professionals and are not required not to judge, so you'll get far more judgment and opinions that may or may not be helpful than you would from a professional.

 

You've been through a lot and it's worth it.

 

Yea that sucks...it's too many lies and secrets...no one knows about you, they know about him but don't know he's married, does anyone besides him (and us) know about the abortion? It just is a lot to bear alone IMO and it's also a lot to try to build a relationship on.

 

Also: what is his actual plan in terms of leaving? Does he think he will say he is leaving today and leave later that day or the next week? When will he get a lawyer? How will he tell his kids? Has he EVER in 20 years brought up divorce or being unhappy or will this all be the first his wife is hearing this? Well never mind, you say he avoids actual plans, which means he has none. That's like planning a wedding with no plans...if you have NO PLANS it means no wedding will happen, as you don't just overnight plan it or show up somewhere one day and everything is in place...it takes active effort....leaving a marriage is the same....theoretically leaving is easy, for real doing it takes very specific plans that a man leaving should know, since he will have to execute them, a man who "doesn't want to talk about it" guaranteed isn't planning a thing.

 

 

In any case, I don't care about him and his non-plans. Let us know how it goes and if you need support with moving forward if he doesn't come through. I strongly suggest therapy again to assist YOU in your own healing and grief over your dad, your baby, everything. That's not easy and nothing is wrong with getting added help with it and trust me...if we don't deal with our own emotional pain, we just keep attracting people that are responding to that or who seem to only activate our worst fears. So it's best to work on it so that even if things don't work with MM you don't simply move on and meet another version of him (which is the pattern of a lot of OW, myself included, until certain issues were acknowledged and dealt with).

[William]

OK, one member suspended and a couple more skating on thin ice. Let's get back to the topic of the man here moving in this week and help the member with their anxiety and uncertainty. I left some reported content to preserve the responses thereto by the thread starter. Thanks!

[ShatteredLady]

I've been made to cry here quite a few times. I haven't checked to see which members you're talking about. In my experience most who are harsh are doing it just to try to knock some sense into us. I know that's not always the best approach!

 

I recently mentioned being hurt & was advised that you can block members if you don't want to see what they have to say. I'm taking that advise! Just don't be too hasty. Most have their hearts in the right place even if it doesn't seem like it at the start.

 

The best advise I've been given is "take what you feel is constructive, helpful advise & leave the rest." (Bare in mind that sometimes the hardest things to hear are the most helpful in the long run.)

 

Being the OW or the BS can be incredibly isolating. Like you, I'm an educated, proud lady. I don't really have anyone to talk to who really understands. I've been bloody close to the edge over the last year & the support I've received here has been truly invaluable. I've even made a true friend! Don't give-up on this site too soon. Members just need to get to know you.

[ShatteredLady]

I'm so sorry about the loss of your father. I do think that therapy would be a good idea to work on all the terrible things you've been through. I kid myself that I'm stronger than I really am. I've had some major losses in my life & it's only recently that I've accnowledged to myself the true impact they had on my life & choices.

 

I can understand why you were on that site. Why was he there? If he's so miserable in his marriage why not divorce & leave? Why 'THAT' site? There is a balance of power issue from the start. Know what I mean? Think about what HE was shopping for? Were you the first relationship he had from that site? Is it something he's been doing for a while?

 

He seems incredibly conflict avoidant (that's almost a given with adulterous MM. They'd of sorted their marriage or left if they weren't) I know that he filled a hole in your heart while you were grieving your father. Are you sure that, given different circumstances this is the man you would want to spend your life with?

 

I know it sounds a little hypocritical given that you were on that site too but I'm not sure I could trust a man I met in those circumstances. He's not the 'typical MM' who 'accidently' fell into an affair. He made the choice to deceive & betray, not face his issues & divorce. He planned to find a woman on that site. That's despicable for a man who made vows & promised to protect & cherish his family.

 

I'm worried for you. Has he committed to what day he's telling his wife (What's he going to tell her?) & when he's moving out? Has he seen a lawyer?

[minimariah]

well... many attached/married people moved out of their marital home & it worked out with their APs. it might or might not happen for you - if he does leave, you'll work from there. if he doesn't - you'll either try to leave that relationship OR you'll set up a new leave date. you'll justt have to wait and see what happens next. he said he'll leave - you'll see if he'll keep that up.

 

i would advise you one thing - try to stay as emotionally neutral as you can possibly be when it comes to his marriage & his wife. be supportive, for sure - but don't invest yoursef emotionally into THAT relationship. that's HIS relationship and you don't know their dynamic. and you shouldn't anyway. you focus on you, you two as a couple. you'll deal with his wife IF it ever comes to you two meeting & trying to form some kind of relationship for the sake of their children. and remember - the wife probably won't react well, it might be really stressful. BUT! give her time. it doesn't mean that the dust won't settle, you know? keep in mind that leaving will be painful for his wife AND children, it is a MAJOR life change - especially if he plans moving in with you soon.

 

also - find a good therapist. don't be ashamed, a good therapist won't judge you. a good therapist will listen and help you detect and work through your problems; if you feel like you're emotionally suffering and cannot cope... ask for whatever help you can get. no point in getting through all of this alone.

Edited April 25, 2016 by minimariah

[Survivor12]

Twins are 10

 

Oh, for some reason, I had the impression that they were younger.

 

Thanks for clarifying!

[anika99]

I think his marriage proposal was insulting to you. He's a married man who is not even separated. He proposes to you and you tell everyone while he tells no one and you can't even meet his family. I'm guessing this isn't the engagement you always dreamed off and he should have had the decency to at least be formally separated first so that the proposal could be celebratory and special for you. You say everyone on your side of things have met him and are aware of your engagement to him. Do they know that he is married and still living with his wife?

 

 

I just really second everything that MissBee said. He doesn't seem to have much of a plan and the plan he does have (I suspect it's really your plan and he's just sort of gone along with it) sounds silly. He's going to live with you (for free) but have his kids visit him at a hotel? I think that might work initially but after a month or so his wife and his kids are going to think that is pretty strange. If he does leave then there is a lot for he and his kids to adjust to and I don't think it's a good idea for him to move right into your place. If he moves straight in with you, you will be right in the middle of his messy divorce, his kids will hate you and everything will become twice as toxic and dysfunctional than they already are.

 

 

I think you need to protect yourself and think of what is good for you in the long run. If he is serious about leaving is marriage then he will do it with or without you. Take some space and let him sort out his own problems. Don't let yourself be dragged down any further.

[BuddyX]

You got some growing up to do.

You're on site looking for a sugar daddy but tell us your doing OK financially. What's wrong with Match or Tinder?

 

I work closely with the MD field, and trust me for a Peeds MD, after alamony and child support his wallet is not going to look pretty. I'm betting, he sat Down crunched the numbers.

 

OP take a step back. Focus on you. You just went through a dramatic experience. Counseling might help. So will Fam and friends.

[Sub]

 

I can understand why you were on that site. Why was he there? If he's so miserable in his marriage why not divorce & leave? Why 'THAT' site? There is a balance of power issue from the start. Know what I mean? Think about what HE was shopping for? Were you the first relationship he had from that site? Is it something he's been doing for a while?

 

I was wondering something similar. Gemlove, I think there's a lot to work out here with him. The aforementioned fact that he doesn't want to talk about things coupled with the above should make you proceed with extreme caution. I may reconsider jumping right into cohabitation once he leaves. Sounds like a huge potential headache.

[Moxie Lady]

Im just going to skip over the sugar daddy/baby thing for the sake of not saying anything I shouldn't except to say that I think it would be hard to have established much respect from him as an equal partner with that kind of start. But he's no pillar of moral character either, so......

 

In my honest opinion I think he is stringing you along hoping that you will just accept the status quo and feeding you enough crumbs so that you will keep following. If he is not talking to you about the details of moving in with you then forget it. He wants to push that in the background and hope you just sort of forget about it and continue to ride it out with him. You are 31 and more or less out of the 'sugar baby' age category. If he was interested in that when you two first hooked up then why would you think that has changed? He already has a wife, he doesnt need another one (and what is up with proposing while he's still married, who does that?)

 

Im sorry but I don't think he is going to come thru for you and I think you should go forward with that likelihood in mind, then decide if being his sexual sidepiece is what you want at this point in your life. Good luck.

[whatatangledweb]

I find it very worrying that he won't discuss plans with you. If he is moving out in a week he should have it all planned out. Does his wife know? If not, if he tells her he is leaving, she could change his mind. I would stick with the deadline. If he doesn't meet it then block him. He will just keep setting new deadlines.

[EverySunset]

That's exactly it. I begin the conversation of - where do we go from here and how to we make this as painless as possible for all involved? And it's just "I don't want to talk about that now."

 

I have not done therapy - I guess I fear judgement. Which is why I came here - and of course, the first few replies killed me. But everyone else has talked the same sense I talk into myself.

 

My brain tells me it's over, my heart is still hopeful. I'll give him to the end of the week and move on from there. I will have to come up with some grand story to tell my friends and family what happened, because they do not know he is married.

 

I've been so many people in my life. Daughter, wife, mother, neglected and betrayed. I can see you there, too, the different paths you've been on, some you thought were noble, others driven, and then family minded.

 

But it is difficult getting someone to be honest with you when they seem incapable of honesty to themselves. You have to realize what it is you want, you can manage, without his help if he can not communicate with you.

 

People don't always tell you who they are, but they almost always show you, if you are paying very close attention.

 

Take a deep breath, and walk the path you're meant to. Don't lie to yourself along the way, find strength inside you to draw boundaries with him. If he then does not respect them, you know you are bound to leave and continue alone - you have been honest. With him, and yourself.

[mercy]

I've been so many people in my life. Daughter, wife, mother, neglected and betrayed. I can see you there, too, the different paths you've been on, some you thought were noble, others driven, and then family minded.

 

But it is difficult getting someone to be honest with you when they seem incapable of honesty to themselves. You have to realize what it is you want, you can manage, without his help if he can not communicate with you.

 

People don't always tell you who they are, but they almost always show you, if you are paying very close attention.

 

Take a deep breath, and walk the path you're meant to. Don't lie to yourself along the way, find strength inside you to draw boundaries with him. If he then does not respect them, you know you are bound to leave and continue alone - you have been honest. With him, and yourself.

Dear sweet child if you 'hear' anything 'hear' this post. It IS your saving grace.

[Poppy47]

Gem,

 

I would bet that he hasn't even mentioned it at home.

 

It is difficult to imagine that a man with three children and a medical practice is ready to leave home any time soon.

 

If he's not talking about it, he is avoiding the issue with you. Perhaps you could give him a date.... after that you walk away.

 

You are taking on a man with three children. Your weekends will be filled with children and being a step mum. Are you ready for that responsibility?

 

There are many problems in store for you if he leaves home and comes to you. Are you ready to face all that? It's not easy.

 

Poppy.

[imperfectangel]

If you do give him a set if you tell him you're going to walk away make sure you actually do otherwise it'll drag on for years

[jenkins95]

Gemlove

 

Big hug to you (((Gemlove))) I see that you are in a tough place. Credit to you for coming here and seeking advice during this tough time. I just wanted to let you know that I sound quite similar to your MM, although I didn't meet my OW on any kind of site where people are searching for relationships of any kind.

 

We had lots of fun, didn't intend to fall for each other, but inevitably we did - we became obsessed with each other, in fact. I never future faked or claimed that I would leave my wife, etc, but eventually I was in the position where I had to decide on her or my marriage. Ultimately I chose my marriage for the following principal reasons: -

 

1. My wife loved me, as clearly evidenced on D-day, and wanted to try to save the marriage.

2. I also still loved my wife and my kids and didn't want to turn everyone's life upside down.

3. My feelings for the OW were very genuine, but I realised what a total bomb-site we would be in if we tried to start a genuine exclusive relationship in those circumstances. She was single and younger than me with no kids and I would bring SO much baggage with me. Suddenly her life would change beyond recognition and she and I would very likely have extreme hostility, pressure and stress to deal with. I felt in the end that to "free" her, even though it hurt her so much at the time, was ultimately the greatest act of love that I could offer her.

 

Months later, I still struggle with everything that I did and everyone that I hurt. I am a shadow of the person I was, but we are trying hard to repair our marriage and provide a good home for the kids. I will never forget the OW and I wish her all the very best. The whole experience haunts me, but I do feel that ultimately it was the right decision.

 

It seems like he is in an abusive relationship, and you have evidence for this. It is therefore likely that his wife's love for him and his love for his wife is likely to be less than in my case. But if he left his family, it would still turn his kids' lives upside down, and what I wrote for point 3 could also be relevant to you. You state that you don't want kids, so could you really take on the role of stepmother to his three kids, bearing in mind that they may not be your number 1 fans? You seem very level headed anyway and i'm sure you're not going into this with your eyes closed.

 

Not sure if this helps in any way, just wanted to contribute my two cents! Keep posting. We wish you nothing but the best. Good luck with it all.

 

J

[Arieswoman]

Gemlove,

From the other side ....

 

My (ex)H told his AP that he was leaving to move in with her after DD and she co-signed the divorce papers on that understanding. (Of course I knew nothing of this)

 

When he finally moved out about 6 weeks later, into his own flat, she realised she'd been used and dumped him for the first time. The relationship was on and off for about 4 years until she got pregnant conveniently and they married

 

Tread very carefully here.....

[sandylee1]

Gem..

 

I'm wondering why he's stayed in such an abusive marriage for so long. I'm sure she wasn't this way when they got married...so what made her abusive? Mentally stable people don't just become abusive overnight. I say these things so that you can think about how your R with him will look in 5 or 10 years time if he leaves her.

 

Ask yourself what makes a woman who was otherwise normal.. that he married..given the fact that I'm sure he had lots of options ...turn into an abuser? Is she on drugs or is she an alcoholic? Either she has an illness or he's lying. It just doesn't add up.

 

Is she only abusive with him? Does it extend to the kids? Has she been diagnosed with a mental health condition? Otherwise her behaviour isn't the norm. How do you know he didn't set up the incident that led to the recording? I could certainly aggravate my husband then put a recording on to demonstrate he's crazy and abusive and I expect he could do the same to me.

 

I would never recommend anyone stays in an abusive relationship ... so the sooner he gets out the better, however if I were you I'd want to know how and when his wife turned into such a terrible person. You need some verification of what he says from an independent party.

 

From the get go you met him on a site that shows he was looking for someone..... rather than trying to fix the issues in his marriage..... that shows he's conflict avoidant as you've seen he doesn't want to answer the hard questions or deal with reality.

 

He likes to give....hence the place you met him. He was prepared to spend marital funds on his OW. ... by way of a monthly allowance ..... not just a gift here or there. He didn't just want an affair.... he was after a younger woman..... so I genuinely question if HE is really at the root cause of the issues in his marriage. He could have had affairs with the nurses before now and that has made his wife bitter.

 

Is he really prepared to pay spousal support and child support and leave his home for a relationship with you? If he is that's fine.... but only time will tell. There's never a good time to leave a marriage .... but if it's really as abusive as he says ... then he's stayed too long.

 

Have you asked him if this is his first affair? Do some digging and try and find out what you're really getting yourself into.

[SomethingToSay]

I will have to come up with some grand story to tell my friends and family what happened, because they do not know he is married.

 

 

Have you considered telling them the truth? I know sometimes our first instincts is to lie, lie, lie. But once you are reeling from the pain of this relationship, because I like others here, do not think he is leaving, it is only deep soul searching and changes within that will result in turning your life around. What is so awful about the truth? Don't be cowardly. Face your action! Become a personal of integrity as you remove infidelity from your life.

 

 

Included in that "becoming a person of integrity" would include: returning to this man's wife 50% of the money he gave you, which you apparently have in a savings account? Half of that is legally hers. She could sue you for it. Personally Id return it with a letter advising in brief terms you have been in a affair with her husband for x years.

 

 

Lets say the red sea parts and this guy moves in with you in 4 days (having made no concrete plans or given any heads up to his wife or kids) Have you thought about the ramifications of being the other woman in what will surely be a contentious divorce? You will be deposed, she likely will out you to all your friends and family, his children may never speak to you, and she may sue you for the return of her money.

 

 

What Im getting at -- this is not going to end well for you I'm afraid. Most likely scenario is he will string you on as long as possible...until you get fed up and end it, or until he has a D-Day and he ends it with you. Best case scenario, though highly unlikely, he does leave and you face the difficulties set forth in the above paragraph. The romance will loose its luster, instead of being a fantasy world of sex, flattery and fun vacations, it will be strife with conflict over the divorce, finances, his children, his pediatrician practice (which surely will take a hit when he is found to have left for a woman from sugardaddy.com). Things will get tough and maybe he will return to his go-to coping mechanism and cheat again. How could you ever trust him?

 

 

So what I'm suggesting is 1) HONEST therapy; 2) HONESTY with your close friends/family about your choices; 3) END IT with the MM and walk away; 4) Return the money to his wife, or if you just cannot do that, donate it to charity

 

 

I truly feel taking some actual steps, and ensuring yourself some actual consequences, will help make you become a happier person who isnt making toxic choices and leaving a trial in your of pain and destruction in your wake, but instead leaving an emotionally healthy and satisfying life.

[Doublegold]

I wasn't name calling. Heck, I could go to sugar-daddy website too if things were different. I am not on any moral high horse here, but I wouldn't be upset to be called what I was nor would I pretend it was a normal relationship. (Btw, I have never been betrayed by H, we would never do that).

 

 

I wasn't addressing you GirlfromCali -- sorry for any confusion.

[dubliner]

Gem..

 

I'm wondering why he's stayed in such an abusive marriage for so long. I'm sure she wasn't this way when they got married...so what made her abusive? Mentally stable people don't just become abusive overnight. I say these things so that you can think about how your R with him will look in 5 or 10 years time if he leaves her.

 

Ask yourself what makes a woman who was otherwise normal.. that he married..given the fact that I'm sure he had lots of options ...turn into an abuser? Is she on drugs or is she an alcoholic? Either she has an illness or he's lying. It just doesn't add up.

 

Is she only abusive with him? Does it extend to the kids? Has she been diagnosed with a mental health condition? Otherwise her behaviour isn't the norm. How do you know he didn't set up the incident that led to the recording? I could certainly aggravate my husband then put a recording on to demonstrate he's crazy and abusive and I expect he could do the same to me.

 

I would never recommend anyone stays in an abusive relationship ... so the sooner he gets out the better, however if I were you I'd want to know how and when his wife turned into such a terrible person. You need some verification of what he says from an independent party.

 

From the get go you met him on a site that shows he was looking for someone..... rather than trying to fix the issues in his marriage..... that shows he's conflict avoidant as you've seen he doesn't want to answer the hard questions or deal with reality.

 

He likes to give....hence the place you met him. He was prepared to spend marital funds on his OW. ... by way of a monthly allowance ..... not just a gift here or there. He didn't just want an affair.... he was after a younger woman..... so I genuinely question if HE is really at the root cause of the issues in his marriage. He could have had affairs with the nurses before now and that has made his wife bitter.

 

Is he really prepared to pay spousal support and child support and leave his home for a relationship with you? If he is that's fine.... but only time will tell. There's never a good time to leave a marriage .... but if it's really as abusive as he says ... then he's stayed too long.

 

Have you asked him if this is his first affair? Do some digging and try and find out what you're really getting yourself into.

 

You've obviously never been in an abusive relationship.

Abuse is about control and abusers are great manipulators, you're right that they don't become abusers overnight, it's a process of control, isolation and phsycological manipulation.

Don't blame the victim for the abuse, that's classic abuser tactic, you cannot 'make' someone abusive, they do so of their own free will.

 

OP, you've had some really good advice here, there's nothing much to add.

For me, the fact that he refuses to discuss plans is a major red flag, it appears he has compartmentalised the two lives, the fantasy one with you where he is single (the sugar daddy, the proposal, meeting your family etc) and his reality- family man stuck in a bad relationship where you do not exist.

He may well want to escape into the fantasy, but wanting to and doing so are poles apart, one requires little effort once practiced, one will turn his world upside down. Only he knows if he is capable of doing.

I would agree with others here, set your line in the sand, decide what YOU will tolerate, then be prepared to stick by it for YOU. You must be the priority in your life, no one else will ever have your best interests at heart like you will and if his actions do not mirror his words now, they never will.

[S2B]

Married 20 years.

 

And when he moves in, I will be paying all of the bills - rent, etc until everything is settled.

 

Why do you have to foot the bill for his free ride? And why not wait until his divorce is totally final?

 

I see this scenario as a very bad sign. You will get used. Don't be his doormat.

[heartwhole]

I can see why you are anxious!

 

I'm very sorry about the loss of your father and your abortion. You've been going through a lot recently and you need supportive, stable people in your life. I think you're realizing that MM probably cannot be those things.

 

I agree that if this is to work out, you need a clean slate with MM. His moving out of the home into another woman's place is surely going to cause his children a lot more trauma than doing things the usual way . . . separation, then divorce, then introducing children to new relationships.

 

I also think you need to change your financial arrangement if there is going to be any hope of this moving forward. You need to know that you are choosing to be together without one of you paying the other. Perhaps you can suggest that he stop the monthly payments and invest that money in getting an apartment of his own.

 

There is absolutely no shame in therapy. If none of us had issues to work through, the profession wouldn't exist. They are there to help. I hope you get into IC so you can begin processing your father's death and everything that has come of your going on the website.

 

As for the chances that he will move out . . . they're probably so-so. Let's say more than 10% but less than 50%. But the chances that even if he moves out, he'll keep living with you, divorce his wife, marry you, and live happily ever after . . . those chances are slim indeed. You both have a lot of work to do on yourselves before you can forge a healthy relationship. Odds are that even if he moves in with you this week, he'll still yo-yo back and forth between you and his family for quite some time.