MM supposed to leave and move in this week... I'm anxious and uncertain

[Lady Hamilton]

More importantly, why would a grown man ALLOW it? Unless of course, it was to keep peace for something REALLY wrong that he had done. People only allow themselves to be punished if they feel like they deserve, like in the case of infidelity.

 

Otherwise it is either not true, or he is a wuss. Either scenario = not good

 

Or people "allow themselves to be punished" because they're abused and don't know how to break the cycle.

 

Again, maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but the assumption shouldn't be that a man who says he's abused and who is dealing with abusive behavior is that he must be a wuss.

 

One doesn't look at a woman who's car keys are taken away and she's not allowed to leave unsupervised by a spouse who's verbally abusive and call her a "wuss" and then start asking what behavior occurred on her part that invited this behavior. Maybe she did something, maybe she did nothing, maybe she did something he saw as a transgression that wasn't. That doesn't make verbal abuse and not being allowed to come and go a rational or OK thing to do to another person.

 

Whatever his behavior was or wasn't, an adult response to it isn't to take away your partner's car keys and not allow them to go anywhere they're not taken. Clearly that's questionable behavior regardless of what he must have done to "deserve it" or "invite it on himself."

 

I think a lot of these questions wouldn't be asked if it was a woman saying this was happening to her. Heck, on here it seems men get called abusive for doing half that to a woman... I was on another thread where some implied it was abusive to have a spouse say another person or celebrity was attractive or if watching porn was considered abuse. I don't think anybody would see a female poster say "My husband screams at me for not cleaning the house properly and once he took my car keys away so I could only get places if he took me" and reply with "well what did you do to make that happen?"

Edited May 3, 2016 by Lady Hamilton

[Sub]

I think the reason we're focusing on the MM's actions or reactions is because he's the one in an R with the OP. Analyzing the BW's behavior is futile, because a) it's either hearsay or lacks context; and b) the BW isn't the one moving in with the OP. It's the MM's behavior and how he deals with things that is going to affect Gemlove most. And if she's on defense, as she's said, she needs to ask some hard questions of him.

[WasOtherWoman]

Or people "allow themselves to be punished" because they're abused and don't know how to break the cycle.

 

Again, maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but the assumption shouldn't be that a man who says he's abused and who is dealing with abusive behavior is that he must be a wuss.

 

 

That is actually a really good point, and after thinking about it I don't disagree with you.

 

I think the rub here is that if we all had a nickel for every MM who tried to convince his affair partner that he was being abused at his wife's hands we'd all be rich.

 

That said, you are right, it actually could be true.

[getsmartie]

 

That said, you are right, it actually could be true.

 

Or it couldn't be true. We know he's quite capable of lying...he was doing that all along to his BS so it's all speculation.

[WasOtherWoman]

Or it couldn't be true. We know he's quite capable of lying...he was doing that all along to his BS so it's all speculation.

 

Yes, of course it could all be a lie.

 

I think the point was that most of us are answering this post as though a man could not be an abused spouse. Lady H was pointing out that if the OP were a woman, we might not be so quick to jump to the conclusion that she is lying about being abused.

 

If i were a betting type, I say he is likely full of crap. But if he is not, then we are making light of an abused spouse because he is a man.

[SomethingToSay]

Agree with the above. First of all, OP says she heard 17 recordings of the BS "ragung". With no further info/description. Yelling does not neccesarily equal abuse. We know MM has the ability to lie. Did he rage at her then turn the recorder on when she spoke? Were these "rages" recorded after discovering he was on a sugar daddy site? We dont know. But to me its a big jump to assume that is abuse. At worst it sounds like she may have borderline or bipolar or something. ..which then begs the question why he would be ok with her having custody

 

This whole story just isnt adding up to me.

 

Meet on sugardaddy.com, LTA, MM is a physician, two tween children, and he just picks up and leaves in the afternoon??? And 2 days later everyones doing well other than a few text rages from BS???? Custody already agreed to despite BS being abusive. And MM thinks he can just have a hotel to host his children for his share of custosy and they will have no clue about OW existence??

 

Not adding up.

[acrosstheuniverse]

Or people "allow themselves to be punished" because they're abused and don't know how to break the cycle.

 

Again, maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but the assumption shouldn't be that a man who says he's abused and who is dealing with abusive behavior is that he must be a wuss.

 

One doesn't look at a woman who's car keys are taken away and she's not allowed to leave unsupervised by a spouse who's verbally abusive and call her a "wuss" and then start asking what behavior occurred on her part that invited this behavior. Maybe she did something, maybe she did nothing, maybe she did something he saw as a transgression that wasn't. That doesn't make verbal abuse and not being allowed to come and go a rational or OK thing to do to another person.

 

Whatever his behavior was or wasn't, an adult response to it isn't to take away your partner's car keys and not allow them to go anywhere they're not taken. Clearly that's questionable behavior regardless of what he must have done to "deserve it" or "invite it on himself."

 

I think a lot of these questions wouldn't be asked if it was a woman saying this was happening to her. Heck, on here it seems men get called abusive for doing half that to a woman... I was on another thread where some implied it was abusive to have a spouse say another person or celebrity was attractive or if watching porn was considered abuse. I don't think anybody would see a female poster say "My husband screams at me for not cleaning the house properly and once he took my car keys away so I could only get places if he took me" and reply with "well what did you do to make that happen?"

 

I have little to add to this thread about the OP's situation, but I just wanted to chime in and thank you, Lady, for the incredibly insightful and compassionate posts you've made on the subject of domestic violence within this thread. As someone who's witnessed abusers first hand of both genders and worked with victims throughout the fallout, I am so glad there are people out there who are willing to acknowledge that men can be just as susceptible to abuse as women. We have such double standards when talking about male and female victims but your posts have been spot on. Thanks.

[sandylee1]

More importantly, why would a grown man ALLOW it? Unless of course, it was to keep peace for something REALLY wrong that he had done. People only allow themselves to be punished if they feel like they deserve, like in the case of infidelity.

 

Otherwise it is either not true, or he is a wuss. Either scenario = not good

 

Exactly. You nailed it. One scenario is its untrue... second is he's a weak man...... and some abuse victims are weak people....... hence the abuser (the bully) is able to abuse them.

 

The kind thing would have been for him to get her psychiatric help... as her behaviour wasn't normal or rationale. Unless of course he knew exactly why she was behaving this way.

To be perfectly normal with the kids and others .... then to be a raging lunatic suggests more than we know here.

 

But you know what? Why not divorce the mentally ill abuser instead of having an affair? Women often stay because they are not financially independent..... Instead we have a man who makes numerous recordings of his wife raging...Instead of actually dealing with why she's behaving this way.

 

I'd be very weary of a man who did this for the sole purpose of showing his OW alleged evidence.

[WasOtherWoman]

Exactly. You nailed it. One scenario is its untrue... second is he's a weak man...... and some abuse victims are weak people....... hence the abuser (the bully) is able to abuse them.

 

The kind thing would have been for him to get her psychiatric help... as her behaviour wasn't normal or rationale. Unless of course he knew exactly why she was behaving this way.

To be perfectly normal with the kids and others .... then to be a raging lunatic suggests more than we know here.

 

But you know what? Why not divorce the mentally ill abuser instead of having an affair? Women often stay because they are not financially independent..... Instead we have a man who makes numerous recordings of his wife raging...Instead of actually dealing with why she's behaving this way.

 

I'd be very weary of a man who did this for the sole purpose of showing his OW alleged evidence.

 

I had a friend who was married to a man who would provoke her to the point she wanted to push him out a window, then record her. SICK, really.

 

Had anyone heard those recordings they would have felt sorry for him....unless they saw what came directly before.

 

Thankfully, she finally divorced the ASSCLOWN.

[Lady Hamilton]

I have little to add to this thread about the OP's situation, but I just wanted to chime in and thank you, Lady, for the incredibly insightful and compassionate posts you've made on the subject of domestic violence within this thread. As someone who's witnessed abusers first hand of both genders and worked with victims throughout the fallout, I am so glad there are people out there who are willing to acknowledge that men can be just as susceptible to abuse as women. We have such double standards when talking about male and female victims but your posts have been spot on. Thanks.

 

I didn't know much about male abuse until, as I said, I witnessed it and now hear about what he (my husband) had to go through. I don't want to hijack the thread any further on the topic, especially since the OP is MIA, but thank you for the compliment. It means a lot.

[MimiB]

It can work out. I know its only a small amount .. I have heard like 10 or 20% but it is possible. I think you have to not lose yourself in the process while you have a timeline.. and manage other things so you are not crashing too hard if it doesnt happen...Why is it that a guy can know when its "too soon" but not when its "too long."

[Arieswoman]

WOW #113

 

I had a friend who was married to a man who would provoke her to the point she wanted to push him out a window, then record her. SICK, really.

 

Had anyone heard those recordings they would have felt sorry for him....unless they saw what came directly before.

 

I can attest to similar treatment from my exH (although he didn't record anything). He pushed my buttons until one day I threw plates across the kitchen and then told his OW what a bad-tempered b!£ch I was !

 

The silly girl believed it and instead of asking "Why are you still there?" she smarmed all around him.

 

Careful OP, you're probably being sucked into a similar scenario

[minimariah]

One scenario is its untrue... second is he's a weak man...... and some abuse victims are weak people....... hence the abuser (the bully) is able to abuse them.

 

hmmmmm... you're stepping into a VERY dangerous territory here --- victim blaming. abuse victims aren't weak & they never agreed to or consented to or allowed others to abuse them. boling frog syndrome - that's what's happening during the abuse.

 

the thing i find odd in this situation is the fact that this MM is able to recognize his wife's behavior and identify it as abuse towards him but claims her great motherhood - abusive spouse is usually an abusive parent, too.

 

also - everyone can define what ABUSE means to them. so things that others find abusive, i might not find abusive at all... for example. it's certainly possible that the MM is overreacting and using abuse as an excuse while describing your normal fight - also, pushing someone's buttons and making them react while describing that reaction as abusive? also happens. abuse isn't always loud and aggressive and the quiet abuse that leads to someone acting out is usually covered up.

Edited May 5, 2016 by minimariah

[sandylee1]

hmmmmm... you're stepping into a VERY dangerous territory here --- victim blaming. abuse victims aren't weak & they never agreed to or consented to or allowed others to abuse them. boling frog syndrome - that's what's happening during the abuse.

 

the thing i find odd in this situation is the fact that this MM is able to recognize his wife's behavior and identify it as abuse towards him but claims her great motherhood - abusive spouse is usually an abusive parent, too.

 

also - everyone can define what ABUSE means to them. so things that others find abusive, i might not find abusive at all... for example. it's certainly possible that the MM is overreacting and using abuse as an excuse while describing your normal fight - also, pushing someone's buttons and making them react while describing that reaction as abusive? also happens. abuse isn't always loud and aggressive and the quiet abuse that leads to someone acting out is usually covered up.

 

It's not dangerous. Bullies and abusers pick on the weaker people who can't defend themselves.

 

I would see this in school.... same thing...bullies attacking less popular weaker people .....why? Because they could. Because they knew they'd get away with it.

 

When the big brother turns Up .....they back Off.

 

Just like many con men choose the elderly to scam...because they are weak and vulnerable. It's not victim blaming ... it's a lot of cases.

[Gemlove]

Did he get his apartment set up yet?

 

He's still here with me at my place, the week went well and he attended his kids sports games throughout the week. He's still committed to being the father he has always been.

 

There are a lot of replies in here about my statement that he was suffering abuse. Most replies were very well thought out, and I appreciate them all - whether you believe or not, and the reasons for why. It is difficult to understand for myself, but I only have what he tells me to go on. But to call him a weak man? That one was way out of line and ignorant.

 

I was not there - and yes, I heard recordings of rages about stupid things - for example, one in particular was a 30 minute tirade over getting the wrong laundry detergent - he got cold wash detergent and they already had it. Because of this he was the "stupidest person ever" and "why can't he get ANYTHING right" and then of course a loud bang when she threw the detergent across the room and he asks her why she would do that. He only began to record these to protect himself in case she follow through on threats to call the police on him.

 

As for the children, he believes she's a good mother and says she doesn't do those rages to the kids - just typical parenting.

[minimariah]

...one in particular was a 30 minute tirade over getting the wrong laundry detergent...

 

if she goes on a 30 minute tirade about a tiny thing that sets her off - what are the odds that she WON'T do that in front of the kids...? slim to none. sure, many abusers can seem like the nicest folks ever to the outsiders... but the abuse in the family very rarely stops with only one person. there are always at least undertones with other family members and i personally find it weird that he wouldn't be even WORRIED about her having those same outbursts with their kids... when they're older. just something to think about.

 

He only began to record these to protect himself in case she follow through on threats to call the police on him.

 

eh - check the laws of the state you live in. in many states, that kind of recording is actually illegal and cannot serve as evidence in court + he actually might get punished for it instead.

 

his entire behavior is a bit weird - i don't think he necessarily lies about the abuse but i do think he's probably hiding his own abuse + the fact that their dysfunctional relationship is a 2 way street.

[Sub]

Why would she call the police on him?

 

Honestly, I can't say I'd be comfortable leaving my kids with a woman who throws things and threatens to call the police on me. So something doesn't fit here. He spent all that time recording her over a dozen times, and the most proactive way of dealing with it was to go on a sugar baby website and pay for an A with easily traceable funds? OP I think there needs to be some really deep discussions with the guy.

[sandylee1]

W

 

So something doesn't fit here. He spent all that time recording her over a dozen times, and the most proactive way of dealing with it was to go on a sugar baby website and pay for an A with easily traceable funds? OP I think there needs to be some really deep discussions with the guy.

 

 

^^^^ Perfectly said.

 

So with all that screaming over detergent. .. then throwing it across the room I assume the kids were not homr

 

There ARE abusers who do not target the whole family ... but they're usually of a narcissistic personality type.

[sandylee1]

W

 

So something doesn't fit here. He spent all that time recording her over a dozen times, and the most proactive way of dealing with it was to go on a sugar baby website and pay for an A with easily traceable funds? OP I think there needs to be some really deep discussions with the guy.

 

 

^^^^ Perfectly said.

 

So with all that screaming over detergent. .. then throwing it across the room I assume the kids were not home. ... or she saves her rages for when they aren't there. Because they must wonder what's going on when crazy mom rages like this even if it's not directed at them.

 

And of all the 17 rages that you heard (and he obviously didn't record them all) .. The kids were either out every single time or didn't hear what happened. right?

 

Hearing one parent being abused ....... is indirect abuse to the children... it certainly isn't being a good mom. There is no way that is healthy for a child. He would certainly know that in his profession.

 

So how can he go through years of abuse and still call her a great mom? What great mom beats dad down emotionally and mentally by berating him.

 

You will believe everything he says no matter what.

[waterwoman]

" i do think he's probably hiding his own abuse + the fact that their dysfunctional relationship is a 2 way street."

 

Yes. I wondered about that too. I am quite a gentle soul but there were times in the months after dday when I became a screaming harpy. It does make you wonder how much **** she has had to swallow over the years.

[PinkSunset]

Gem,

 

I apologize if this has been addressed already, I didn't read every post.

 

My MM's wife sounds a lot like yours. I think I might recommend he start recording her as well.

I just wanted to ask, does she know he is living with you? Is she aware of the affair at all?

[ladydesigner]

He's still here with me at my place, the week went well and he attended his kids sports games throughout the week. He's still committed to being the father he has always been.

 

There are a lot of replies in here about my statement that he was suffering abuse. Most replies were very well thought out, and I appreciate them all - whether you believe or not, and the reasons for why. It is difficult to understand for myself, but I only have what he tells me to go on. But to call him a weak man? That one was way out of line and ignorant.

 

I was not there - and yes, I heard recordings of rages about stupid things - for example, one in particular was a 30 minute tirade over getting the wrong laundry detergent - he got cold wash detergent and they already had it. Because of this he was the "stupidest person ever" and "why can't he get ANYTHING right" and then of course a loud bang when she threw the detergent across the room and he asks her why she would do that. He only began to record these to protect himself in case she follow through on threats to call the police on him.

 

As for the children, he believes she's a good mother and says she doesn't do those rages to the kids - just typical parenting.

 

Whoa yeah her rages are really strange. I rage at my WH but he really is a stupid idiot for what he has done and continues to do to his life. I don't feel bad one iota.

 

OP most people who are abused become weak from the abuse. They get battered down and start to believe all the negative things being said about them. Is your MM in his own therapy for the abuse?