The attorney consulation

[Jersey born raised]

Based on my past post I must seem very focused completely focused on pratical matters such as finances and custody. I assure I am not. I do aiways focus on bread and butter issues ASAP in the beginning. Now and until the final decree the foundation of the rest of your life and daughters are being laid. There was an expression from the fifties "marry in haste, reprint in leisure". Today it should be "get the issues and finances done first, figure out the rest later".

 

Roughly what would your financial picture be like after a divorce? Did he advise you to wait to he obtains a new job? Would alimony and child support increase if he got a better job?

 

I endured many of the same issues you are. Hang in there.

[elaine567]

.. It will just be a matter of days, weeks, months or a year or so before he realizes that his freedom and being a bachelor single dude mean more to him than cost savings of child support.

 

At that point he won't care if you are in Fl or NC or Disneyland. He'll just want to be out from under the yoke of parenthood....

 

He is just not husband or father material and in time, he will be glad to let you have the daughter and he may show up periodically for big events in her life with a big present, but that will be about it :-(

 

That is my worry too and the OP will make her decisions based on him being around all the time as a good and kind father, when the reality is she could probably take herself and the child to Timbuktu and it would not make a blind bit of difference to him.

[lunajane]

This is terrifying and heartbreaking. Because a part of me knows it's true. I've always known it.

 

How can I believe anything he says about wanting to have a relationship with her? He tells me how much he loves her, and I believe he does. But I can see him drifting further and further away.

 

We've talked a little about custody. We mentioned that she would spend weekends with him and then dinner once a week. But that gives him very little responsibility in raising her! And we just naturally went to that arrangement because of little he's been involved so far.

 

And I can really see him being offered a job in another state and rationalizing himself right into a long distance relationship with her. Or worse, and more likely, weasel ing his way into me making it okay for him to do it.

 

Which will all hurt her AGAIN.

 

Oh, my poor little girl! What have I done?

[oldshirt]

This is terrifying and heartbreaking. Because a part of me knows it's true. I've always known it.

 

How can I believe anything he says about wanting to have a relationship with her? He tells me how much he loves her, and I believe he does. But I can see him drifting further and further away.

 

We've talked a little about custody. We mentioned that she would spend weekends with him and then dinner once a week. But that gives him very little responsibility in raising her! And we just naturally went to that arrangement because of little he's been involved so far.

 

And I can really see him being offered a job in another state and rationalizing himself right into a long distance relationship with her. Or worse, and more likely, weasel ing his way into me making it okay for him to do it.

 

Which will all hurt her AGAIN.

 

Oh, my poor little girl! What have I done?

 

You haven't said anything about him being abusive, negligent, cruel, chemical addiction/abuse etc etc so there isn't any actual threat or danger here.

 

 

He also has an established employment history in a well paying career field that is in demand so we are not dealing with some kind of nonsupportive or deadbeat dad situation.

 

 

And he does seem to be willing to discuss and negotiate terms and plans etc.

 

 

So while this situation is sucky and unfortunate, there really is a reason to hit the panic button or think that the sky is falling at the moment.

 

 

He is not a danger or a threat to her per se, he is just kind of self absorbed, into his own things and is not in the running for any kind of great father trophy.

 

 

 

 

Like I said above, I think his primary focus at the moment is to get out from under the marriage and family responsibilities as simply and as cheaply as possible.

 

 

But I think that once he does having her on weekends and weeknight dinners etc, he will find that it crimps his fun time and his dating life etc and once he does get a new job, he will be remiss to take time off for doctors appointments and sick days from school etc etc and he will be anxious to renegotiate custody terms real fast.

 

 

Assuming he does have at least a few particles of paternal feelings in him, he may be no father-of-the-year while she is little and needing hands on care. But in time as she matures and requires less hands on care and responsibility from him, their relationship may improve somewhat.

 

 

He will probably never be up for father of the year, but as she matures, she may seem less of a burdeonsome child to him and more like a friend or peer that he can talk with and do things with.

 

 

Some guys are just plain $h!tty with babies and little kids and they can't relate to them and they resent the crimp in their lifestyle that they have inflicted. but as the children become more developed and more grown, they relate better and can find common interests and kinship.

 

 

As long as he doesn't completely blow up their relationship and poison their relationship with chronic neglect or abandonment or abuse or something, it's possible they can do "OK" and possibly down the road develop a little more connected relationship.

[standtall]

Get a mean lawyer, but keep your expectations reasonable. Don't get into some long, ugly custody battle...don't expect to be able to move out of state without him agreeing to it.

[oldshirt]

 

Assuming he does have at least a few particles of paternal feelings in him, he may be no father-of-the-year while she is little and needing hands on care. But in time as she matures and requires less hands on care and responsibility from him, their relationship may improve somewhat.

 

 

He will probably never be up for father of the year, but as she matures, she may seem less of a burdeonsome child to him and more like a friend or peer that he can talk with and do things with.

 

 

Some guys are just plain $h!tty with babies and little kids and they can't relate to them and they resent the crimp in their lifestyle that they have inflicted. but as the children become more developed and more grown, they relate better and can find common interests and kinship.

 

 

As long as he doesn't completely blow up their relationship and poison their relationship with chronic neglect or abandonment or abuse or something, it's possible they can do "OK" and possibly down the road develop a little more connected relationship.

 

 

 

I have a little confession to make here,,,, I am kind of speaking of personal experience in myself here.

 

 

I am a wee bit like your husband and see some of myself in the way you describe him. He is clearly more of an extreme example than me, but we may have come from the same factory.

 

 

To put it into numeric values on a 1-100 scale of fatherhood with 100 being the hands down father of the year winner and 1 being one of those guys that kills their pregnant GF to keep from being tied down with a wife and babies, I am about a 45 and your husband is about a 30.

 

 

I never left my wife and family but I H.A.T.E.D. having babies and very much resented and didn't like the changes in lifestyle and the restrictions of my fun time and the responsibilities it placed on me to raise and care for babies and toddlers.

 

 

I never left or even really threatened to or made any plans to do so, but I now clearly understand where the people who do it are coming from, even if I don't condone it.

 

 

My humble opinion is that broke your husband. He likely disconnected and opted out years ago.

 

 

I think he is sincere that your long leash and "space" allowed him hang on a little bit longer than he would have if you had been more demanding of his parental time and involvement.

 

 

I don't know if that is a good thing or a bad thing however.

 

 

He probably got some girlfriend or some kind of new job prospects on the horizon and that is what pushed him over.

 

 

To use my own experience as a potential light at the end of a long tunnel - I hated having babies and toddlers and hated the lifestyle of parenting young children, but I am starting to come into bloom as a father now (well that may be a little exaggerated. I at least am starting to form a little bud on the stem :-) )

 

 

My kids are now 11 and 14 and I am getting to be able to relate to them and talk with them and am starting to enjoy doing things with them and enjoy seeing them turning into their own people.

 

 

I think if I had left when they were young, I think I may still be at this place with them now but who really knows what would've happened. I'm glad I stayed, but even now if we were to split, I would still continue to coparent and be a part of their lives as they continue to grow and make their way towards adulthood.

 

 

In my defense, I never abused, neglected or abandoned anyone. And I never cheated on my wife. ......But I can now clearly see how it can happen and I know where they are coming from.

 

 

My point to this little autobiography is I think your H is like me, just a little farther towards the bad end of the spectrum.

 

 

He may be a mediocre at best father, but he may not be a bad person and may not be a danger or a threat to your daughter's wellbeing.

 

 

....and in time as she develops and matures, as long as he doesn't completely drop the ball now, they may actually develop a relationship that may be more like related peers than daddy-daughter,

 

 

- But at least it is a relationship.

[oldshirt]

 

 

 

 

....and in time as she develops and matures, as long as he doesn't completely drop the ball now, they may actually develop a relationship that may be more like related peers than daddy-daughter,

 

 

- But at least it is a relationship.

 

 

 

The reason I am using the word 'peers' is because his maturity level is more like a single, young 20-something rather than a grown man with a family.

 

 

As she matures into her teens and beyond, they may have a more similar maturity level and be more like buds that a parent-child.

 

 

Definitely not ideal, but better than nothing.

[lunajane]

oldshirt, I could never thank you enough for the time you've taken today to help me. I was in a very dark place this morning, and your kind and thoughtful words have helped to pull me out of it. Thank you.

 

You've described my husband better than I ever could. I guess you've helped me see some of what I couldn't admit for myself. And a lot of things I realized too late.

 

I hope he finds it within himself to be a good father to his child by not completely abandoning her. Strangely, it helped me to hear that he will never be father of the year (I never expected him to be) or even a really good dad, but that he can still have a relationship with her that is on terms with which he can cope. I guess that is better than nothing.

 

I will choose more wisely next time, if I ever choose again at all.

[WasOtherWoman]

 

 

I built a life in FL that he didn't want be a part of. I thought it was a happy life, full of friends, activities, traditions. I never understood why he didn't want to participate. He wanted to hang out with his friends at bars.

.

 

I am sorry you are finding yourself in this situation. But, how on earth did you think the above was a happy life ?

[lunajane]

It became the norm. That's all I can tell you.

[WasOtherWoman]

Fair enough, things always look different from the outside.

[lunajane]

Feel somewhat myself today. I was able to eat a real meal yesterday, so I think that helped my mood and my sleep.

 

I asked my husband to tell his mother this weekend. She and I have a close relationship, and it was very hard to pretend with her that nothing is wrong. She and I talked after she talked to him for two hours. She gave me some very good advice about thinking long term right now.

 

She also advised that we see a mediator. I texted my husband to make an appointment, but I will make it clear to him that this does NOT mean I will not involve an attorney, or, at the very least, have an attorney review what we come up with.

 

I told my family this weekend as well. They are all back in North Carolina. And they are PISSED. They want me to come home immediately. I told them I can't just do that. There are laws about taking my child out of state now.

 

I go back and forth on whether I eventually want to go back. If it were just me involved, I would already be there. I miss my family so much, and I need them around me now. I do have an amazing support system in FL as well. My friends have been AMAZING the past week. But there's nothing like family when you're in a crisis.

 

The dilemna is my little girl. Is it the best thing for her to take her away from her whole life? her school? her friends?

 

As far as taking her away from her dad...well, I kind of feel the ball is in his court right now. He's recently been laid off and could look for jobs in NC or for a "remote" position where he could work from anywhere. I've asked him to look for jobs in NC, and he has agreed to. Whether he's doing that, I don't know. But he does say things to me like, "If you take her back to NC and are being financially supported by your family, I will not be inclined to pay you alimony." The attorney I saw on Friday said that maybe I could actually use alimony as a bargaining chip. I do not know if he would contest the relocation and send us to court.

 

The frustrating thing is, he could just move to NC. He could live his bachelor life there just as well as here. Some of you have said here that I shouldn't expect or ask him to relocate. Maybe I'm being selfish or unrealistic, but why the hell not?

 

But then there's the most important issue of my daughter's well being. I know that dumping a divorce and a move on her would be very painful for her. I know that she will need routine after learning of the divorce in order to feel safe. And I don't want her to have a long distance relationship with her dad, even though I'm pretty sure he's not going to have any deeper of a relationship with than he does now. I think he'll continue to be a "Disney dad", only seeing her on the weekends and taking her to McDonald's one night during the week.

 

We could establish a new routine in North Carolina. She could grow up around her family, her aunts, her uncles, her grandparents, her cousins. They all love her and miss her. And I would actually get to have a close relationship with my 1-year-old nephew and my other nephew who's due in September. I know that move would be hard for her at first, but is it the best thing for both of us in the long term?

 

Ugh. I just don't know. I know that she and I will be fine either way. We could be happy in FL or NC. I almost want him to be offered a job in another state. I know he would want to take it and would let us do whatever we wanted to.

 

What are your thoughts? What course of action would you be moving towards?

[standtall]

Obviously you have talked to a lawyer. You probably also found out that you cannot unilaterally move your child out of state...no matter how ****ty of a husband and father he is. Your attorney's rec that you use alimony as a chip is an excellent idea. With the time you have been married, he won't owe you lifetime spousal support, but most likely 3 yrs. What is it going to be anyway? He is unemployed now, and that payment will reflect it....several hundred dollars a month is not worth keeping your child away from what sounds to be a very nice family.Let him keep the money and you and the daughter get to go back to NC.

 

Don't show your hand right away,spousal support is your ace in the hole...Lawyer up anyway and listen to your attorney...

[Why_So_Complicated]

Feel somewhat myself today. I was able to eat a real meal yesterday, so I think that helped my mood and my sleep.

 

I asked my husband to tell his mother this weekend. She and I have a close relationship, and it was very hard to pretend with her that nothing is wrong. She and I talked after she talked to him for two hours. She gave me some very good advice about thinking long term right now.

 

She also advised that we see a mediator. I texted my husband to make an appointment, but I will make it clear to him that this does NOT mean I will not involve an attorney, or, at the very least, have an attorney review what we come up with.

 

I told my family this weekend as well. They are all back in North Carolina. And they are PISSED. They want me to come home immediately. I told them I can't just do that. There are laws about taking my child out of state now.

 

I go back and forth on whether I eventually want to go back. If it were just me involved, I would already be there. I miss my family so much, and I need them around me now. I do have an amazing support system in FL as well. My friends have been AMAZING the past week. But there's nothing like family when you're in a crisis.

 

The dilemna is my little girl. Is it the best thing for her to take her away from her whole life? her school? her friends?

 

As far as taking her away from her dad...well, I kind of feel the ball is in his court right now. He's recently been laid off and could look for jobs in NC or for a "remote" position where he could work from anywhere. I've asked him to look for jobs in NC, and he has agreed to. Whether he's doing that, I don't know. But he does say things to me like, "If you take her back to NC and are being financially supported by your family, I will not be inclined to pay you alimony." The attorney I saw on Friday said that maybe I could actually use alimony as a bargaining chip. I do not know if he would contest the relocation and send us to court.

 

The frustrating thing is, he could just move to NC. He could live his bachelor life there just as well as here. Some of you have said here that I shouldn't expect or ask him to relocate. Maybe I'm being selfish or unrealistic, but why the hell not?

 

But then there's the most important issue of my daughter's well being. I know that dumping a divorce and a move on her would be very painful for her. I know that she will need routine after learning of the divorce in order to feel safe. And I don't want her to have a long distance relationship with her dad, even though I'm pretty sure he's not going to have any deeper of a relationship with than he does now. I think he'll continue to be a "Disney dad", only seeing her on the weekends and taking her to McDonald's one night during the week.

 

We could establish a new routine in North Carolina. She could grow up around her family, her aunts, her uncles, her grandparents, her cousins. They all love her and miss her. And I would actually get to have a close relationship with my 1-year-old nephew and my other nephew who's due in September. I know that move would be hard for her at first, but is it the best thing for both of us in the long term?

 

Ugh. I just don't know. I know that she and I will be fine either way. We could be happy in FL or NC. I almost want him to be offered a job in another state. I know he would want to take it and would let us do whatever we wanted to.

 

What are your thoughts? What course of action would you be moving towards?

 

This post makes me boil.

I don't know you, I don't know your situation (at least not in depth like his side of the story). But i can tell you to listen to your family. I'm sure your husband is going through a dark time with being laid-off as it changes all men's chemistry feeling vulnerable, But he needs to check himself and stop living in fantasy land. He's going down his own dark rabbit hole right now i guarantee you, no matter what happy show he puts on. You don't cause your family pain with out creating massive skeletons in your closet that you will burn with everyday.

My opinion (and it's just that from what I've read) do what you can to move back with your family. They will give you the support you need to heal and become independent again. Screw the alimony you need to get away from this Toxic, narcissistic ass_hole. Guarantee you once he has little control left things will change and maybe he will evolve from it or maybe not.

 

Do you see yourself staying where your at now and continuing life and starting a new relationship? Don't be his pawn to control. Be strong, Be angry, Get support, Love your daughter.

 

Sorry if i offended anyone.

[lunajane]

We had a talk tonight.

 

He will not contest our relocation to NC. He said it would break his heart, but "he wants me to do what's best for me."

 

He will not look for something in NC. He has too many "irons in the fire here". He also admitted that he doesn't want to move back to where people are pissed at him. He said maybe in a year he would move up. I don't think he will.

 

He talked about 50/50 custody. He said he would certainly consider it if that's what I wanted. But we would have to be flexible if he traveled for work, meetings, etc.

 

Hey, he could fly her down to Florida EVERY weekend!

 

I want his ass to stay here to get the high paying job he's looking for so he can support my daughter and me for as long as we need to get on our feet.

 

I WILL get my teaching degree. I WILL be independent and not need him for anything ever again. I WILL find someone who will show my daughter how a REAL father feels about his family.

 

God, I married such a selfish [person].

Edited May 3, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[WasOtherWoman]

W

 

 

I WILL get my teaching degree. I WILL be independent and not need him for anything ever again. I WILL find someone who will show my daughter how a REAL father feels about his family.

 

 

Good for you!!! Being self-supporting and in control of your own destiny is priceless.

[lunajane]

This sucks.

 

We're taking her out for her birthday tonight. We have to act like nothing's wrong. Meanwhile, I'm racked with indecision, anxiety and hurt. For me and for her.

 

He's really laying it on thick with her, too.

 

Meanwhile, I know that he's willing to let her go with me to NC. He's almost encouraging me to. It's hard to know if he's being sincere about wanting me to be happy or really doesn't care either way as long as he's out of the marriage. I find myself trying to analyze his reactions constantly.

 

And it's so depressing to both know that this is not surprising for him (letting us move away from him) and to MAKE myself understand that it's NOT the way he should be reacting if he wanted a real relationship with her. That part is very hard.

 

It's also very hard not to stay here to make seeing her part-time easy for him FOR HER.

 

I can't help but feel that it's my obligation as a good mother to do that for her.

[elaine567]

You have lots of family there, so picking up the slack will be easy, not so easy if your husband decides P/T fathering is not for him, even if she is just down the road, and he lets her down all the time.

 

I think, he is sort of telling you here he is done. NO fighting over her, no demands, just off you go to NC, have a nice life!

I guess its not possible to have a bachelor lifestyle with a kid cramping your style.

[lunajane]

I asked him today if he'd be willing to go to a therapy appointment next week. Although he has said he doesn't want to go to counseling but would go if I wanted to. I began to think talking this out with someone who could guide us through the conversation would maybe help him see that he's making a huge mistake in just basically running away.

 

He said he would go. I asked him if there's any part of him that wants to reconcile. He said "I don't think so." I told him I needed more clarity than that. I asked if he's been wanting to do this for a while and was just waiting for the right time." He said yes and that my asking him two weeks ago if we were okay just forced it out of him. He said he couldn't pretend anymore.

 

He said he hoped we could focus in the therapy on "getting me employed and happy in a career and making sure we have a parenting plan". I was stung that he would want to discuss those things in THERAPY.

 

I told him I would make a therapist's appointment for myself and for our daughter when the time comes. I told him He and I will focus on mediation. He can't WAIT to get me working and out of his life. He must really be just done with me. I've told him I love and care about him. He has not said the same.

 

He also said his "hope was that I could find a way to stay here (in FL) for a while to give some stability" to our daughter. Stability? Staying MARRIED would give her STABILITY. And I LOVE how its so convenient that our staying here would be easier for him AND he gets to say it's for her wellbeing, too. This is the same man who forgot to call her on her third birthday when he was out of town and wouldn't play with her in the pool on her sixth birthday because the water was too cold.

 

Getting some anger now.

[lunajane]

***bump***

Edited May 7, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[oldshirt]

People have an image that all marital therapists/counselors will always work tirelessly to try to keep the marriage together at all costs. That is not true however. There are lots of times that after hearing both sides, that the therapist/counselor will conclude that the marriage is too far gone to be saved or that there is enough toxicity in the marriage that it should not be saved and that cooperative divorce is the better option.

 

 

MC can help for a variety of reasons other than reconciling and staying together.

 

 

MC can help two people who are divorcing to work together to have successful divorce with minimal chaos and bad blood and to work together towards cooperative coparenting even though the marriage has ended.

 

 

While it is true that MC may possibly help the petitioning party to realize that the marriage has value and that with some effort and mediation skills the marriage can be saved, the opposite can also occur in which through therapy the person holding on to hopes of reconciliation can realize that the other person has truly checked out and left the building and they let go of trying to stay together and can shift their energies towards reaching a fair divorce settlement and moving on with their own life.

 

 

My personal opinion is that you should encourage and pursue MC but view it as a venue where both of you can share your individual perspectives and thoughts and goals etc with an objective, professional third party and see if you can all three work collaboratively on finding the options that will have the least amount of damage and chaos and bad blood and lasting harm.

 

 

Both of you probably have some unrealistic fantasies and wishlists for your future.

 

 

It is probably unrealistic of you to think that the marriage can be saved at this point and that the 3 of you will have this fairy tale love story of a happy family with the white picket fence and flower garden and butterflies etc.

 

 

And it is unrealistic of him to think that you and your child are going to fade away like mist in the sun and that he will be a carefree swinging bachelor living the party life free of adult and parental responsibility and that he is going to have a rotating door of hot, horny women coming into and out of his place for the rest of his days.

 

 

The reality is going to fall somewhere between those two dream worlds and a competent therapist can help find that compromise that will work to have the least amount of damage and lasting chaos.

[oldshirt]

so I guess what I am saying is continue to try to get your STBX to MC, but acknowledge that MC is for other reasons than to try to salvage the marriage.

 

 

Make clear to him that even if divorce is inevitable that MC still has great value in that it can help you two to cooperate and work together in a manner that will have the least amount of damage and lasting bad blood and continued expense.

 

 

If his mind is completely made up that he is going to divorce you, then he will resist going to MC and will see no point to it.

 

 

But if he can see that MC can also help to minimize the pain, damage, expense and residual chaos and bad feelings about it, he may be more likely to go and participate.

[oldshirt]

Additionally, I think it's fair to be upfront that you want to exhaust every option to try to salvage a happy, healthy marriage if it is at all possible. And I think it is fair to let people know that that is your ultimate goal of the therapy if it can be done at all. But I do think it is in your best interest if you start to acknowledge that divorce may be inevitable and that if that is the case, then you at least want it to occur with the least amount of damage and conflict and hostility and bad blood as possible and that joint counseling would be the best avenue for that to occur.

[lunajane]

Solid advice. Thank you.

 

I had a moment of weakness yesterday where I had hope that I could help him see that we could fix this together.

 

It is clear to me now that he is done. He has agreed to go to counseling to manage the divorce.

 

I am living in a reality that is overwhelming at times. I have moments of clarity and strength and moments of sadness, fear and guilt.

 

But I know fundamentally that my daughter and I will be okay. And I will be able to live an honest life and finally tell the truth about the who he is, who I am and what I want.

[Lois_Griffin]

How can I believe anything he says about wanting to have a relationship with her? He tells me how much he loves her, and I believe he does. But I can see him drifting further and further away.

Sorry, but Father of the Year has been an absentee parent for YEARS.

 

He claims to 'love' his child so much yet he's spent more time away from her - with supposed 'friends' (a/k/a the other woman) - than he's spent WITH her.

 

He's an utter failure as a father and a decent human being. He can make all the claims of loving his child that he wants, but his actions clearly don't back up his claims.

 

Shame on him.