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No wonder (some) men struggle


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xxoo,

 

I know my marriage has gone through significant strain over the years and rebounded nicely.

 

But my marriage now sounds more like yours.

 

I think a key component is adaptability.

 

I think so many people in today's society lack adaptability and the way that young men have been historically socialized to hit some artificial expectation of "manhood" and etc. has really done them no favors.

 

Do you see a lot of role-rigidity as causing a lot of strife for both men and women these days as well?

 

I think that relationships require A LOT of adaptability to survive. Because people are complex in general, and don't fit into all of the "perfect little boxes" under the traditional or modern systems.

 

What kind of decent partner, hoping to attract someone, says things like "if you expect me to get with you, accept this 'biological limit' regardless of what your heart goes to or what you want to try with your life."

 

I can't imagine telling a partner, "No, you can't cook. That's "my job" not "your job." I don't want you to learn it. I don't want you to do it. It isn't "manly," it isn't "normal."

 

Do these thoughts even sound healthy?

 

I don't get how any human being gets to impose these belief systems on one another any more than imposing a religion or a slave-like situation on someone.

 

When you have a partner, isn't it more about "oh hey, you want to give that a try, eh? Let's see what we have in resources to do that. One life to live and who doesn't want a partner interested in bettering themselves or making a change?"

 

Like XXOO, I think if your husband came home one day and said, "you know I saw this documentary on Fashion Design, and I know it sounds kinda weird, but I want to see if I can sew a purse." Your eyes might widen a bit, but I doubt you'd be in a shouting match or try to underhandedly sabotage his handbag design, right?

 

Three years ago, I started collecting scrap metal in my garage and sorting it etc. as a hobby with a small return. No one looked at me like I had three heads when I would take apart a fax machine for components. No one freaked out about "the space" or "the unfemaleness" of it all. In fact, my husband found about $100 of aluminum while he was out one day and brought it back for me. Should I be worried? :laugh:

 

Why would I, or any woman, want to be with a partner that shuts down her dreams and ambitions?

 

I agree, rigid roles are just silly. I'm attracted to masculinity, and my husband is very masculine. He's muscled and bearded and has big, rough hands and smells like a man :love:

 

But he also sews :laugh: And he likes to buy me dresses. And he cooks. And yes, those qualities make me swoon! I love that he has those tender qualities. I love supporting all his dreams and ambitions.

 

My husband is attracted to femininity, and I'm very feminine. I'm long haired, small and curvy, nurturing, and soft.

 

But I also like to skateboard, throw a football, mow the lawn, drive stick and drink beer from the bottle. And yes, he loves those unfeminine qualities about me. He's always supported me in just being myself.

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stillafool
Was reading this blog based on sociological studies that show that women are less happy than men in marriage.

 

https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2016/05/04/women-are-less-happy-than-men-in-marriage-so-why-does-the-media-insist-otherwise/

 

I wouldn't go as far as to say the media conspires against women to make sure they get married.

 

But studies do prove that this part of this article is true: single women, on average, are happier than married women. Married women are less happy than married men and less happy than single women.

 

This could explain why so many men struggle on the dating market. The bottom line is: women are happy single.

 

I know this applies to me. I would rather be single than in a relationship with just anyone. If I'm going to have to pick up and wash your socks, you better be ****ing awesome.

 

I've always thought women get the bad end of the deal in marriage because it seems the woman is constantly working. When kids come along it's double the work. If it weren't for women's stupid hormones pushing them to partner and procreate I'm sure there'd be a lot less depressed women.

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What exactly does "bring something to the table" even mean? Education/career/financial ambition means nothing, fine. "Nice" doesn't count for anything - that's been repeated on LS thousands of times over. Genuine kindness and sensitivity is interpreted as weakness far more often than not. Responsible is interpreted as "boring". "Intelligence" is considered to be completely subjective. There isn't much left except what meets the eye at the moment of meeting - looks, abs, and pick-up charm.

 

All I know is what does it for me, and it's not looks, abs, or pick up charm. It's always been strength (inner and outer) with focus on cherishing and protecting me. That's the man I fall for, no matter what he looks like or how much he earns (although if he has very weak earning, he'd fall short on the "strength" scale).

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dreamingoftigers
What exactly does "bring something to the table" even mean? Education/career/financial ambition means nothing, fine. "Nice" doesn't count for anything - that's been repeated on LS thousands of times over. Genuine kindness and sensitivity is interpreted as weakness far more often than not. Responsible is interpreted as "boring". "Intelligence" is considered to be completely subjective. There isn't much left except what meets the eye at the moment of meeting - looks, abs, and pick-up charm.

 

Players are going to thrive more than ever. Among men, the gap between the haves and have-nots will continually get wider - the 80/20 myth will become less mythical. I suppose the rest of us regular guys may continue to play the settle-down-with-whomever-will-take-us game because of our high testosterone but I can't imagine that the next generation is going to see that as a particularly attractive option. I would venture to guess that as time goes by, more countries will find themselves in Japan's situation. The only way for a regular guy to exercise any personal power will be to bow out of the game altogether.

 

I think a lot of people really pre-judge their own worth and others by looking at "perfection" and then seeing where they don't "Stack up."

 

I mean, would you want to be with a partner that didn't care if you were nice or intelligent? Really?

 

I know that even if 65% of women didn't care about that, would those be the women whose company you want to keep? Wouldn't you want to find a mate from the other 35% who wanted what you had to offer? I mean, would you really view finding someone whose values match yours as "settling." I view that as "oh hey, great. I found a good one in this sea of schlock."

 

I can't speak for every other woman. But what my husband brought to the table WAS not a great resume. At all, in fact. But he was genuinely interested in conversing with me, doing fun things with me and building a life with me.

 

He wanted to build a life and have the normal trappings of things. Family, companionship, settle down. But he also was a great listener and great comforter at a time of high stress. That was huge to me. As was his sense of humor. He made me truly, deeply laugh. This is probably the deepest strength in our relationship. Not everything he says is pure comedic gold, but we really do laugh at a lot of the same stuff and it is totally cool to have someone to share that with. The little day-to-day stuff makes a huge difference.

 

You see, a long-term partnership isn't just built from the "big stuff" like what house / car / career / kids you have or don't have. Most of it is built from the small interactions you have every day.

 

My husband didn't have "abs" (LOL) I didn't care. He didn't have a car even, or a job at the time. But he got one. (Most of us do). He didn't have a 401k and stock options. And he wasn't a PUA.

 

He was just a dude with a fun sense of humor who didn't get ragey or defensive at the drop of a hat. It wasn't a big set of Cirque du Soleil-esque traits that got my attention. It was his jokes, his kindness and his wit matched with how he followed-through on DOING the small things he said he would. Otherwise known as consistency and honesty.

 

If men want to opt out, they can. But then really, do they get to complain that the men that didn't are "getting all the women."

 

It's like the single girl that goes nowhere near men or makes any effort to meet a guy complaining that she can't find anyone.

 

Both genders make up roughly half of the population. I have NEVER had trouble finding a date and I am NOT an attractive girl. (Working on it, tyvm). Most men I know that bother to ASK and get together with women aren't in dire straights for women either.

 

I honestly think that so many young people DON'T look for a potential partner and expect it to "just happen." Most goals in life don't work that way. I think that is terrible advice.

 

I am not saying to sleep with everyone. But go out, date, socialize, see who you click with. Learn about PEOPLE then see if you are interested in dating them. Don't let some ridiculous media stereotype and the sucky attitudes of others stop you from dating. It's a much larger market then the top 1% if you just want a partner to share a life with. If you want a supermodel with a PhD to bang down your door, then adjust your tactics or expectations.

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Thank you! ! I

 

Too many "modern" women out there who lothe nurturing, but wanna pop out a kid and put a ring on their finger so society can worship them and/or a husband and a kid is just another "accessory" or "thing on a list of things to do" in her life.

 

 

I think you might have hit the nail on the head here. I think some women like the "mother worship" idea so they pop out a kid.

 

Seriously, I had one woman prospective employee who told me she had another child because she "liked being pregnant."

 

When I asked what she meant, she said that people pampered her and gave her a lot of special attention when she was pregnant.

 

She however went on to say she was bored staying home taking care of her kids. So, she was looking for a job.

 

Needless to say I did not hire her. If she told me she was looking to work because she needed the money, I most likely would have hired her.

 

I had to question why she was bored?

 

Is she not capable of finding ways to entertain herself or to occupy her mind when the children are sleeping or at kinder care?

 

The women who claim they have nothing to do all day, to my mind, are not thinking clearly.

 

There are plenty of things they can do, if they WANT to.

 

They can start an at home business.

 

They can get a graduate degree online, just to increase their intellectual awareness.

 

Oh and here is one. They can actually enjoy just being with their child.

 

I have a number of women friends who love being a mother. They engage in all sorts of activities with the baby and their older children and they are just so happy. I bet their children are happy, too.

 

My grandmother had a saying. It goes. "Bored people are boring."

 

I just do not understand the concept of having a kid and than being bored or unhappy staying at home to care for them.

 

I know a number of couples who finally had a child after years of infertility treatments.

 

They love being with the child.

 

But they waited until they could afford one and until they got their "ya ya's" out.

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dreamingoftigers
This is true but I think that a lot of men these days are so confused that we just follow what society says women want even though that seems to change every week. We get so many conflicting messages that we don't know whether we are coming or going anymore. The men who just stayed who they are and told women take it or leave it are the ones who do better.

 

I think that is practically everyone.

 

According to American media, I might just want to discard myself in a dumpster because I sure don't have the figure worth marrying. Nor would my silly "personality" get me a single date.

 

Yet, I never had trouble getting dates at any point in my waistline. Nor were my nails ever done.

 

I may have had the gall to show up to a military ball with 'chippy' toe nails. If I bothered to show my hideous toe nails to anyone ever.

 

Yet somehow, I have been bequeathed a miracle. My 10th wedding anniversary is coming up in a couple of weeks.

 

Granted the union hasn't been perfect or cookie-cutter. I guess that's fortunate because I wasn't looking for a perfect, cookie-cutter union. Hopefully my children will survive the shame LMAO.

 

It is much better to be able to depend on your own self to guide where you want to go and who you want to be than the vapid, ever-changing opinions of what media says is the "rightest path ever." Because next week that all changes anyhow.

 

I mean this is the same media that was promoting dogs in purses. I don't look at it as a font of wisdom.

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Was reading this blog based on sociological studies that show that women are less happy than men in marriage.

 

https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2016/05/04/women-are-less-happy-than-men-in-marriage-so-why-does-the-media-insist-otherwise/

 

 

This could explain why so many men struggle on the dating market. The bottom line is: women are happy single.

 

 

Well, when the common concept of relationship is for a woman to primarily become a caretaker for an adult male (i.e., become his mother) it doesn't leave a lot of room for finding joy really. And an awful lot of adult males never grow up because they go from one set of apron strings to the next. No brainer as to why single women tend to feel happier.

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dreamingoftigers
I agree, rigid roles are just silly. I'm attracted to masculinity, and my husband is very masculine. He's muscled and bearded and has big, rough hands and smells like a man :love:

 

But he also sews :laugh:And he likes to buy me dresses. And he cooks. And yes, those qualities make me swoon! I love that he has those tender qualities. I love supporting all his dreams and ambitions.

 

My husband is attracted to femininity, and I'm very feminine. I'm long haired, small and curvy, nurturing, and soft.

 

But I also like to skateboard, throw a football, mow the lawn, drive stick and drink beer from the bottle. And yes, he loves those unfeminine qualities about me. He's always supported me in just being myself.

 

That's funny. My husband crochets. He has made both of our kids blankets and a few other decorative things for the house. Like a sort of cover for the bathroom shelf.

 

Plus he cooks etc.

 

And yes, he likes to buy me dresses. Maybe that's the secret LMAO.

 

Gentlemen, buy your women dresses. The rest is just a ruse!

 

My father sews as well. He made the curtains at my parent's home. I remember going to Fabric Land as a kid and he would tell the women there that he was picking up fabric "for his sister." LMAO.

 

Of course, he made camouflage curtains for his office. None of that frilly stuff.:laugh:

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I know what it takes to be a mother and a wife. Do I really want it? No. I like getting up, coming/going when I want. I'm not sharing my assets with no guy. At least I'm honest about me and who I am.

 

 

That is such a cop out. 'I know I'll be great at it, but I've never actually experienced it, in real life, with real life issues, real live kids' etc etc.

Those hapless women actually living it? They have no idea how it should be done...

 

 

Well done Gloria, you passed the 1950's housewife theory test.

Now welcome to life in 2016.

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I'm not surprised that this thread is, for some, about "the trouble with women today" and "what women can / should do to change". Instead of pointing fingers and blaming others, we could focus our energies on solutions.

 

The flip side of these study results is single men report being less happy with their single status. So I like questions, such as GoodonPaper's, that ask: how do we help single men? How can single men adjust to this?

 

I understand why people want to rant on about married women feeling overwhelmed. Question there could be: what makes a marriage a mutually happy one?

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Those hapless women actually living it? They have no idea how it should be done...

 

 

Soulcat:

 

IMO, the point is that the women who have children are not "hapless"

 

These women planned to have children. Or should have planned and prepared to have children.

 

You are right this in not the 1950s, and that means improved birth control methods.

 

Women, today, have a choice about whether or not to have a child.

 

Women today can get married and still opt not to have a child, unlike the 50s when it was considered weird to not have a child.

 

hap·less

ˈhapləs/

adjective

adjective: hapless

(especially of a person) unfortunate.

"if you're one of the many hapless car buyers who've been shafted"

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Soulcat:

 

IMO, the point is that the women who have children are not "hapless"

 

These women planned to have children. Or should have planned and prepared to have children.

 

You are right this in not the 1950s, and that means improved birth control methods.

 

Women, today, have a choice about whether or not to have a child.

 

Women today can get married and still opt not to have a child, unlike the 50s when it was considered weird to not have a child.

 

Fathers exist too don't they?

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I'm not surprised that this thread is, for some, about "the trouble with women today" and "what women can / should do to change". Instead of pointing fingers and blaming others, we could focus our energies on solutions.

 

The flip side of these study results is single men report being less happy with their single status. So I like questions, such as GoodonPaper's, that ask: how do we help single men? How can single men adjust to this?

 

I understand why people want to rant on about married women feeling overwhelmed. Question there could be: what makes a marriage a mutually happy one?

 

Agreed. I believe a lot of the unhappiness in relationships is the faulty idea's we have about relationships to begin with. Primarily that it's about tying a man down, and subjugating women to the will of a man. Both are awful concepts and do not in any way support someone feeling satisfied or happy in a relationship.

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Soulcat:

 

IMO, the point is that the women who have children are not "hapless"

 

These women planned to have children. Or should have planned and prepared to have children.

 

You are right this in not the 1950s, and that means improved birth control methods.

 

Women, today, have a choice about whether or not to have a child.

 

Women today can get married and still opt not to have a child, unlike the 50s when it was considered weird to not have a child.

 

 

As much as I enjoyed your lesson in English vocabulary Liam, your point is rather moot.

 

You entirely missed what I was trying to say. I never said women who choose to have children are hapless (damn, far from it), rather that was an inference of Gloria's overall statements.

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dreamingoftigers
I think you might have hit the nail on the head here. I think some women like the "mother worship" idea so they pop out a kid.

 

Seriously, I had one woman prospective employee who told me she had another child because she "liked being pregnant."

 

When I asked what she meant, she said that people pampered her and gave her a lot of special attention when she was pregnant.

 

She however went on to say she was bored staying home taking care of her kids. So, she was looking for a job.

 

Needless to say I did not hire her. If she told me she was looking to work because she needed the money, I most likely would have hired her.

 

I had to question why she was bored?

 

Is she not capable of finding ways to entertain herself or to occupy her mind when the children are sleeping or at kinder care?

 

The women who claim they have nothing to do all day, to my mind, are not thinking clearly.

 

There are plenty of things they can do, if they WANT to.

 

They can start an at home business.

 

They can get a graduate degree online, just to increase their intellectual awareness.

 

Oh and here is one. They can actually enjoy just being with their child.

 

I have a number of women friends who love being a mother. They engage in all sorts of activities with the baby and their older children and they are just so happy. I bet their children are happy, too.

 

My grandmother had a saying. It goes. "Bored people are boring."

 

I just do not understand the concept of having a kid and than being bored or unhappy staying at home to care for them.

 

I know a number of couples who finally had a child after years of infertility treatments.

 

They love being with the child.

 

But they waited until they could afford one and until they got their "ya ya's" out.

 

I started my business last time I had Mat leave. That went well. Although you have to be VERY careful about earnings etc. or you end up losing your Mat leave.

 

Children ARE enjoyable. But in my case, he is very little a sleeping a lot. My daughter is in school during the day. So that leaves me with my Physics study (exam in June) but only when I am not totally sleep deprived. (Infant is less than one week old at this point).

 

Sleep deprivation = time for LS.

 

Don't underestimate the power of sleep deprivation during the early weeks / months of having a child. Plus hormones. Hormones make you want to cry over the dumbest crap. Really draining, plus the healing itself. Healing tends to be quite boring. It is tiring and there isn't a whole lot one is physically up to during that window. My work does not require a large physical contribution. So, yes, of course I miss that feeling of usefulness.

 

Of course I am of use to my child, and he is an awesome little dude. But he is largely asleep during the day, with punctuations to feed. He's cute when he sleeps but there's only SO MUCH of that as well. At this point, being here is more like working in home care than a time to do a bunch of "bonding activities." It doesn't mean I don't "enjoy my child" or that I "resent caring for him" or that "my baby accessory doesn't give me enough zazz" or whatever.

 

I wouldn't TRADE being here to go back to work. But supplementing in some work projects would sure be nice right now. I have invested a lot of time, effort and energy into the company and suddenly feeling cut off from that is not comfortable in the least.

 

Maybe boredom isn't the "right" word. I feel, rather, under-utilized with what I CAN do. I haven't the energy at this stage to start networking, or studying in earnest for my exam. I've also done some packing to move, but that again requires some lifting that I CAN'T do at this point. But I could be doing my workplace responsibilities, thus bring home some bacon, even if not full-time. That would feel like more of a win-win for everyone.

 

I don't understand the "Mommy worship" mentality. Especially with how physically demanding and risky a pregnancy can be. That seems like a very foolish and selfish way to try to get attention. I think that must be a pretty young person with a pretty enabling family to have that. But then again, both of my pregnancies were quite rough and this one ended early. Maybe other women simply cruise on through and get some kind of gold star from friends and family.

 

But given the rise in fertility treatments etc being given across the country and the high failure rate of older women getting pregnant, those who want children might be wiser to have them younger and simply expect not to be able to provide designer everything for them.

 

I don't get the point of clothing an infant in designer anything either. I mean, the infant doesn't care and isn't going to remember. We don't have a technical "nursery" for our son either. He has his bed and he'll move down the hall when he's old enough to be left safely in the night. I don't get a lot of the over the top stuff that parents do, almost like they are trying to "impress" their baby or their friends. We get it, you like your baby. Cuddle with it. He or she isn't going to remember or care what "theme" their room was before the age of two. They aren't even going to be able to read the inspirational quotes on the wall.

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I just do not understand the concept of having a kid and than being bored or unhappy staying at home to care for them.

 

Can you imagine loving and enjoying a child and at the same time wanting to also find fulfillment in work outside the home?

 

Fathers have not traditionally been expected to find satisfaction while staying home with a small child, yet they are still viewed as loving and enjoying their children. Mothers can love and enjoy their children just as much AND have interests outside the circle of the child. To do so, however, someone else needs to be responsible for the child--either the father or another child care worker. Babies and small children do not tend to sit quietly and cooperatively while adults pursue hobbies, businesses and personal interests. They are in fact quite demanding!

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Instead of pointing fingers and blaming others, we could focus our energies on solutions.

 

I'd say "Welcome to Loveshack," but I noticed you've been a member for almost a decade. Was there a time when this actually happened?

 

OP,

 

As far as "what makes a marriage a mutually happy one?"

 

I'd say one where there's open and assertive communication instead of pointing fingers and blaming others, and focus on solutions instead of the problems. Hmmm. I am beginning to see why it may appear there aren't many happy marriages...:confused:

Edited by OneLov
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dreamingoftigers
Agreed. I believe a lot of the unhappiness in relationships is the faulty idea's we have about relationships to begin with. Primarily that it's about tying a man down, and subjugating women to the will of a man. Both are awful concepts and do not in any way support someone feeling satisfied or happy in a relationship.

 

I wish my relationship was more about tying a woman down, but I digress......

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I think the thing is that a lot of men don't know what the solutions are. They don't know what modern women want from them and when they ask it just seems to make them more confused. There are so many contradictory messages.

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I think the thing is that a lot of men don't know what the solutions are. They don't know what modern women want from them and when they ask it just seems to make them more confused. There are so many contradictory messages.

 

That's true.

 

The first thing I could say is that I don't want a man who treats falling in love like it's a recipe: "first I get a job, then I show a woman how nice I am, then I impress her with my mad cooking skills and then we fall in love".

 

For me, falling in love has always been about how we interact, make each other laugh. It is about building trust too, feeling like that man has my back. And there's really no recipe for that.

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Imajerk17
I'm not surprised that this thread is, for some, about "the trouble with women today" and "what women can / should do to change". Instead of pointing fingers and blaming others, we could focus our energies on solutions.

 

The flip side of these study results is single men report being less happy with their single status. So I like questions, such as GoodonPaper's, that ask: how do we help single men? How can single men adjust to this?

 

I understand why people want to rant on about married women feeling overwhelmed. Question there could be: what makes a marriage a mutually happy one?

 

Great questions. My thoughts...

 

1. As this board is overrepresented by single people, the issue of married women feeling overwhelmed won't get much attention on here. Many single guys won't care period, whereas many single women looking for someone may still wish she could trade places with the married women, overwhelm and all, so what problems?

 

2. Focusing on single males, those single males who can't attract women do feel a fundamental pain. If such a guy doesn't have looks, money, or charm, he feels really bad. If such a guy DOES have looks, money, and conversational skill and still can't keep a woman's interest (as @xxoo pointed out, those things have little to do with attraction), he feels even worse. Now clearly on a fundamental level there is something wrong with HIM. Thing is, these guys hardly know where to turn to--our gender is HORRIBLE at seeking help. So right or wrong there is the rise of PUA Community and the MRA and MGTOW movements--places online where guys could seek out advice and share their pain without anyone else knowing. (Whether these are actually good places to turn to for advice is whole another story.)

 

3. As far as what can be done to help these single struggling guys, I do think "becoming more interesting" will help, but I definitely don't think it is most of the answer. There are plenty of seemingly boring guys who are in awesome relationships. The problem goes deeper than that.

 

@xxoo said it best. Women are attracted to masculinity. And in that regard, many guys aren't initiated--no instances in their life where they successfully faced danger and risk and grew from it. I mean, you won't become masculine by shying away from competition and focusing on your studies and getting a well-paying job as a software engineer. It's a path that I think many guys who struggle with women and who find themselves on these forums have taken, though. So a solution will involve getting these men initiated. Now, HOW this is to be done, I don't really know.

Edited by Imajerk17
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ThaWholigan

A few people I follow on twitter broke it down in this particular way - in the actual marriages themselves, one of the main issues is one of labor. That includes domestic labor, emotional labor and (arguably) sexual labor (duty sex is still a thing).

 

If the many accounts I read were to go by, then it would seem that women feel they do more than their fair share of the labor in relationships and it's a fair argument IMO and a worthy critique of the imbalance of the traditional gender roles that some people still contort themselves to follow at possibly their own detriment.

 

One of the more interesting aspects is what happens after marriages. Men actually get remarried much quicker than women and are much more willing to share aspects of labor overall, while women report being happier after divorce and find it easier to get their needs met upon remarriage.

 

In regards to single men and single women, one of the major issues is that men are constantly bombarded that if they aren't getting pussy or getting girlfriends then they are lesser men and that contributes to their unhappiness. It's possible to be happy and single. I would love to have a GF right now, but I am happy on my own also. The key is in the messages that we send single men. Women are undergoing a shift, or almost a growth in understanding lately, and are becoming much happier and secure as a result nowadays as they are erecting boundaries and protecting their peers who are not so secure and helping them build up security.

 

We don't really do that for men unfortunately, and it needs to come from our peers also. It's more than just instilling ideals from traditions past, but about equipping them to be the best versions of themselves and to be able to function in todays world.

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@xxoo said it best. Women are attracted to masculinity. And in that regard, many guys aren't initiated--no instances in their life where they successfully faced danger and risk and grew from it. I mean, you won't become masculine by shying away from competition and focusing on your studies and getting a well-paying job as a software engineer. It's a path that I think many guys who struggle with women and who find themselves on these forums have taken, though. So a solution will involve getting these men initiated. Now, HOW this is to be done, I don't really know.

 

For me, what defines masculinity most is the term "provider". Not provider in the sense "he pays for everything" but more "he makes sure everyone around him is safe, is well". He cares for others.

 

My dad is like that and the men I've fallen for have all showcased this capacity to provide for others, for their community, for their loved ones. The women I know who are in happy relationships are with men who care about their happiness and wellbeing.

 

I think of it as a form of strength.

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I've always thought women get the bad end of the deal in marriage because it seems the woman is constantly working. When kids come along it's double the work. If it weren't for women's stupid hormones pushing them to partner and procreate I'm sure there'd be a lot less depressed women.

 

No, if there was more smarter women who planned out their lives (ie school/career now or later, get a husband who isn't a lazy and cheap bum, don't have ten kids when we can barely afford one, drive car till wheels fall off instead of new car every three years), then they wouldn't be forced to be a working mom trying to juggle a full time job and a husband and kid.

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SammySammy

My mother had a husband, a business and six kids. Being a wife and mother does not mean a woman does all of the work. My mother has something called leadership skills. She taught us what to do, scheduled our tasks, assigned our tasks, and then followed up to make sure they were done to her standards which were very high. Much of that stuff was delegated to me to make sure it got done because I was the oldest child.

 

Being the leader of the household doesn't mean you do all of the work. Just as being the owner of a business doesn't mean you do all of the work. Any woman doing all of the work in her house when she has a husband and kids is not smart.

 

We were cleaning up our own messes as young as two and three years old. If you're old enough to make a mess, you're old enough to clean it up. That's how I was raised.

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